Opinion on AJGA Ranking?

[leezer99]

20 minutes ago, allenartlab said:

Some college coaches still use that as a reference. Actually, I begin to think the only motivation to maintain a higher JGS ranking is for recruiting purpose. Correct me if wrong, there is hardly any big tournament you can get in based solely on JGS ranking. 

It’s definitely a jumping off point but if you’re kid isn’t playing city championships or usga events that aren’t counted in jgs then they’re behind. 

[kekoa]

On 9/7/2023 at 6:23 AM, leezer99 said:

AJGA ranking is more important for recruiting than your JGS ranking.

 

Do whatever you have to do to rise in the AJGA rankings to secure your spot on a highly ranked program. 

Crap, I was just going to ask just how important AJGA to play for a top level program.  I've heard a lot of coaches say that AJGA's aren't 100% necessary if the kid can prove himself in other high level tournaments such as TCC, USGA's, etc....

 

My son won't do an AJGA until he turns 14 and I just hope he does well enough to accumulate enough stars to play in others.  We live in California and I'm not yet willing to travel out of state to chase stars so that makes each tournament even more important.   All the kids I know who are in AJGA now come from $$$$$.

[jkpgolf]

13 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Crap, I was just going to ask just how important AJGA to play for a top level program.  I've heard a lot of coaches say that AJGA's aren't 100% necessary if the kid can prove himself in other high level tournaments such as TCC, USGA's, etc....

 

My son won't do an AJGA until he turns 14 and I just hope he does well enough to accumulate enough stars to play in others.  We live in California and I'm not yet willing to travel out of state to chase stars so that makes each tournament even more important.   All the kids I know who are in AJGA now come from $$$$$.

AJGA's are not necessary. You don't have to play them to get noticed. Play well in whatever you play and you'll get noticed. TCC are great. Stick to those, do well you'll earn enough stars to play in AJGA's later if you wan to. 

[mrshinsa]

This was the first year our son played AJGA, and it was an eye-opening experience.

 

Feel free to disagree but JGS ranking matters, and AJGA Rolex matters for college recruiting.

 

Before each AJGA tournament, all attending coaches are given a roster sheet with the list of players and their corresponding rankings.  

 

Can juniors get recruited by doing exceptionally well locally and not playing AJGA?  Yes, and I've seen a few but this is the exception, not the norm.  

 

Also to answer OP's question, course rating is sometimes totally bogus and so can CCA.  Don't want to open a can of worms about this, but a quick search should reveal what I mean and how others share the same thoughts.   

 

Yes, AJGA ranking is limited in that the sample size is so small, but again that's why coaches have JGS to compare with.  

Edited September 13, 2023 by mrshinsa

[jkpgolf]

On 9/13/2023 at 1:26 PM, mrshinsa said:

This was the first year our son played AJGA, and it was an eye-opening experience.

 

Feel free to disagree but JGS ranking matters, and AJGA Rolex matters for college recruiting.

 

Before each AJGA tournament, all attending coaches are given a roster sheet with the list of players and their corresponding rankings.  

 

Can juniors get recruited by doing exceptionally well locally and not playing AJGA?  Yes, and I've seen a few but this is the exception, not the norm.  

 

Also to answer OP's question, course rating is sometimes totally bogus and so can CCA.  Don't want to open a can of worms about this, but a quick search should reveal what I mean and how others share the same thoughts.   

 

Yes, AJGA ranking is limited in that the sample size is so small, but again that's why coaches have JGS to compare with.  

I would agree with your thoughts 100%. Your ranking is so important. No school is going to look at you if you are not highly ranked. But when you peak is very important too. a bad Sophmore year of tournaments and recuiting won't end well. It makes it a tough road. My best advice for those still in the recuiting process or will be in the recuiting process in the next few years is kick butt in local events, don't over travel, kids can struggle in unfamiliar places and too long on the road. I've seen it many times hurt more rankings than it helps. Relax, let the kids play, they will find their place. If you're good coaches will find you. 

[golfortennis]

On 9/16/2023 at 11:07 AM, jkpgolf said:

I would agree with your thoughts 100%. Your ranking is so important. No school is going to look at you if you are not highly ranked. But when you peak is very important too. a bad Sophmore year of tournaments and recuiting won't end well. It makes it a tough road. My best advice for those still in the recuiting process or will be in the recuiting process in the next few years is kick butt in local events, don't over travel, kids can struggle in unfamiliar places and too long on the road. I've seen it many times hurt more rankings than it helps. Relax, let the kids play, they will find their place. If you're good coaches will find you. 

 

Get your ball speed over 170 as well.  College coaches won't look at you without it.

[iteachgolf]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

Get your ball speed over 170 as well.  College coaches won't look at you without it.

Not even close to accurate 

[jkpgolf]

16 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

Not even close to accurate 

@iteachgolf I agree with you. That is not accurate. 

So much missinformation when it comes to recruiting. All the missinformation makes it so hard for parents to know what to do, what tournamernts to play, what to focus on. It's tough. Recuiting is an interesting process. 

[kekoa]

On 9/16/2023 at 8:07 AM, jkpgolf said:

I would agree with your thoughts 100%. Your ranking is so important. No school is going to look at you if you are not highly ranked. But when you peak is very important too. a bad Sophmore year of tournaments and recuiting won't end well. It makes it a tough road. My best advice for those still in the recuiting process or will be in the recuiting process in the next few years is kick butt in local events, don't over travel, kids can struggle in unfamiliar places and too long on the road. I've seen it many times hurt more rankings than it helps. Relax, let the kids play, they will find their place. If you're good coaches will find you. 

 

Can you define 'highly ranked'?  Are we talking top 50-100 in your graduating class or overall in the nation for JGS?

[jkpgolf]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

 

Can you define 'highly ranked'?  Are we talking top 50-100 in your graduating class or overall in the nation for JGS?

If you are top 50 on JGS in your graduating class you will get lots of attention from the top D1 schools on June 15th. As can be seen by who the top schools have recruited so far. 50-100 you'll get some attention from the Top D1's but more from lowerer ranked D1 schools but still very good teams.  This is just in general. Lots of factors come into play. For example, what state you are in. In state means less scholarship dollars are required. Also, the charater of the kid. I'm sure we all know a few kids that would be at better schools had they had a better character and reputaion. Coaches hear stuff, they know what's going on with recruits they are interested in. 

Also, sometimes there is just a kid that a coach has folowed for a few years and has seen his improvement and sees huge potential in him. He could be a bit of an outlier but with a few years left until college, if coach can see potential he may recruit a bit out of thier normal rage of ranking. 

If you study the rankings and schools the top kids have commited to, you'll see where your kid belongs and what shcools you should be focusing your attention on. 

It can be stressful, but take it one step at a time and your kid will find his place. Once you get to June 15th it's now your kids journey. Let them lead the way. They will get a feel for what coach and facility will help them to thrive. 

Recruiting can be an amazing learning experience. Look at it that way and enjoy it, it's what they worked so hard for all these years. 

[Tugu]

Since a child is limited to how many AJGA events they can play, the rankings are heavily skewed towards one or two decent finishes and especially those who get to the invitationals. 

 

If one was to take a deeper look, many "highly" ranked AJGA kids rarely win any events. But I have met coaches that are looking at things mathematically. They are looking at a kid's floor and not their ceiling because they need best 4 of 5 scores in college events. Par and 1-2 under kids with low scoring variance are prized assets if placing is more important than winning.

Edited September 25, 2023 by Tugu

[allenartlab]

11 hours ago, Tugu said:

Since a child is limited to how many AJGA events they can play, the rankings are heavily skewed towards one or two decent finishes and especially those who get to the invitationals. 

 

If one was to take a deeper look, many "highly" ranked AJGA kids rarely win any events. But I have met coaches that are looking at things mathematically. They are looking at a kid's floor and not their ceiling because they need best 4 of 5 scores in college events. Par and 1-2 under kids with low scoring variance are prized assets if placing is more important than winning.

Personally I don't think playing in the invitationals is a good formula for getting AJGA points, unless you are top top players. Winning a regular open (at least 40 points), there are 6 or 7 of them in certain week spread across the country, is easier than finishing 8th place (39.xx points) in a invitational, especially for players whose score capability does not have large variance. 

[Tugu]

16 hours ago, allenartlab said:

Personally I don't think playing in the invitationals is a good formula for getting AJGA points, unless you are top top players. Winning a regular open (at least 40 points), there are 6 or 7 of them in certain week spread across the country, is easier than finishing 8th place (39.xx points) in a invitational, especially for players whose score capability does not have large variance. 

Everyone can gauge what they think is optimal. Here is the AJGA's definitive guide on points in certain events based on where the player finishes.

 

*Not including the bonus points given for qualifying into the team events.

**No added tournament divisor is added for points given in these events.

***AJGA also has a list for what points were assigned to specific events.

 

rolex-ajga-rankings-points-earned-by-finish-positi_230926_175408.pdf

Edited September 26, 2023 by Tugu

[golferdad8]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:33 AM, jkpgolf said:

If you are top 50 on JGS in your graduating class you will get lots of attention from the top D1 schools on June 15th. As can be seen by who the top schools have recruited so far. 50-100 you'll get some attention from the Top D1's but more from lowerer ranked D1 schools but still very good teams.  This is just in general. Lots of factors come into play. For example, what state you are in. In state means less scholarship dollars are required. Also, the charater of the kid. I'm sure we all know a few kids that would be at better schools had they had a better character and reputaion. Coaches hear stuff, they know what's going on with recruits they are interested in. 

Also, sometimes there is just a kid that a coach has folowed for a few years and has seen his improvement and sees huge potential in him. He could be a bit of an outlier but with a few years left until college, if coach can see potential he may recruit a bit out of thier normal rage of ranking. 

If you study the rankings and schools the top kids have commited to, you'll see where your kid belongs and what shcools you should be focusing your attention on. 

It can be stressful, but take it one step at a time and your kid will find his place. Once you get to June 15th it's now your kids journey. Let them lead the way. They will get a feel for what coach and facility will help them to thrive. 

Recruiting can be an amazing learning experience. Look at it that way and enjoy it, it's what they worked so hard for all these years. 

I agree about the top 50 getting looks, but coaches are more open than just looking at JGS. 

My son had a very good recruiting experience despite being "only" top 100-ish.

The key is he had numerous top 5 & top 10 amateur events competing against many of these schools' players. 

This data point can easily outweigh JGS or Rolex rankings. 

 

Also, lots of bashing about AJGA & cost of traveling, gaining stars, etc....

My suggestion is don't focus on AJGA if your kids can't average near par (with 20-40% of rounds below par).

It just doesn't pay to do AJGAs (and finish in the bottom 25%, other than for the experience). 

 

As for Invitationals, many of the bottom are top 25 players who end shooting 75-80+ but their differential is protected due to JGS' adjustments.

This is why top ranked players like only playing in invitationals. 

 

[Tugu]

10 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

I agree about the top 50 getting looks, but coaches are more open than just looking at JGS. 

My son had a very good recruiting experience despite being "only" top 100-ish.

The key is he had numerous top 5 & top 10 amateur events competing against many of these schools' players. 

This data point can easily outweigh JGS or Rolex rankings. 

 

Also, lots of bashing about AJGA & cost of traveling, gaining stars, etc....

My suggestion is don't focus on AJGA if your kids can't average near par (with 20-40% of rounds below par).

It just doesn't pay to do AJGAs (and finish in the bottom 25%, other than for the experience). 

 

As for Invitationals, many of the bottom are top 25 players who end shooting 75-80+ but their differential is protected due to JGS' adjustments.

This is why top ranked players like only playing in invitationals. 

 

This post should be read by or pinned for everyone looking to understand how the recruitment process can work.

 

I can see why and how your boy had a good recruiting experience.

[wegobomber31]

15 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

 

 

As for Invitationals, many of the bottom are top 25 players who end shooting 75-80+ but their differential is protected due to JGS' adjustments.

This is why top ranked players like only playing in invitationals. 

 

I don’t disagree with the fact that JGS CCA is often high in these events, but I don’t think it’s that is the main reason why players only play in invitationals. 
 

Some other reasons I can think of:

 

- playing against the best competition

- the invitationals are generally at nicer courses

- performing well can lead to some unique experiences like Wyndham Cup, Junior Pres/Ryder Cup and position well for Rolex All-American

- all the top schools are at events like Simplify and Wyndham

- easier to set schedule in advance 

 

Two other things: 

- if a player is consistently shooting 75-80 in Invitationals, they won’t be on the invite list for much longer. 

- since there are ~10 of these in the calendar year, combined with other big national, amateur and USGA events, that is basically more than enough of a full schedule for a junior player. I believe that is the main factor for why certain players “only” play invitationals. Why wouldn’t they?

 

if your top 100 son had cracked the top 50, are you saying you would have largely passed on these opportunities? Of course you would have played them. Like you said, you can have a perfectly good junior career and get plenty of recognition by coaches without them, but they are a no brainer for players who can get into the inner circle and are good enough to stay there. 

 

[golferdad8]

All of the reasons you listed for players wanting to play Invitationals are valid, and I want to share a few thoughts given we've been through it and we're done.

 

First, most players don't get into ALL of the invitationals. Even when they get invited, many are during the school year or are very expensive or difficult to travel to. 

Second, you're right - if they can get into invitationals why bother with local tournaments on inferior courses. 

 

As for bottom players in invitationals, consider the recent Ping Invitational screen shots and take a look at the bottom 25% of the field. Even with shooting 75-83 range, a score of 76 on Round 1 with the JGS (CCA) adjusted ratings of 82, it gets the player a -6 differential. In other words, no downside being bottom 25% and huge upside if can shoot par and get a -10 differential.  

 

Regarding "cracking the top 50 JGS" to get into invitationals, many don't understand how specific invitationals select the field. 

Despite not being top 50 JGS (and "only" top 70), my son's Rolex ranking and top finishes in amateur events got him into many prestigious invitationals including the Western Jr, AJGA Simplify, among others. Rolex Rankings and amateur rankings are often used, so having a top JGS rank helps. However, I don't know a single invitational where they field the players based on JGS ranking.

 

Importantly, the good news is that for recruiting, many coaches will trust their experience and identify the top 51 to 150 JGS players who can "beat" top 25 ranked players. 

This helps explains why former National Champ Pepperdine has a 2024 commit that's ranked top 125 when they could have recruited a higher JGS ranking player. 

Further, this helps explain why my son had numerous P5 school offers by top golf programs despite not being on your top 33 list. 

 

Bottom line, there are lots of ways to find the ideal school for the kids, even if they don't "play the game."

 

Good luck to all the kids (& parents) out there in their pursuit, and try to enjoy the journey.  

[leezer99]

2 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

All of the reasons you listed for players wanting to play Invitationals are valid, and I want to share a few thoughts given we've been through it and we're done.

 

First, most players don't get into ALL of the invitationals. Even when they get invited, many are during the school year or are very expensive or difficult to travel to. 

Second, you're right - if they can get into invitationals why bother with local tournaments on inferior courses. 

 

As for bottom players in invitationals, consider the recent Ping Invitational screen shots and take a look at the bottom 25% of the field. Even with shooting 75-83 range, a score of 76 on Round 1 with the JGS (CCA) adjusted ratings of 82, it gets the player a -6 differential. In other words, no downside being bottom 25% and huge upside if can shoot par and get a -10 differential.  

 

Regarding "cracking the top 50 JGS" to get into invitationals, many don't understand how specific invitationals select the field. 

Despite not being top 50 JGS (and "only" top 70), my son's Rolex ranking and top finishes in amateur events got him into many prestigious invitationals including the Western Jr, AJGA Simplify, among others. Rolex Rankings and amateur rankings are often used, so having a top JGS rank helps. However, I don't know a single invitational where they field the players based on JGS ranking.

 

Importantly, the good news is that for recruiting, many coaches will trust their experience and identify the top 51 to 150 JGS players who can "beat" top 25 ranked players. 

This helps explains why former National Champ Pepperdine has a 2024 commit that's ranked top 125 when they could have recruited a higher JGS ranking player. 

Further, this helps explain why my son had numerous P5 school offers by top golf programs despite not being on your top 33 list. 

 

Bottom line, there are lots of ways to find the ideal school for the kids, even if they don't "play the game."

 

Good luck to all the kids (& parents) out there in their pursuit, and try to enjoy the journey.  

 

We know Matthew. He hadn't done a whole lot until this year. Go look at his JGS... kid has been on fire as of late.  Super nice family as well. 

[golferdad8]

Yes, Matthew is a great kid. Imho, he committed a bit early & could have gotten a much higher ranked golf team. That said, he seemed to really like Grand Canyon U & felt it was the best fit. 
 

Btw, I wasn’t highlighting Matthew in the GREEN BOLD - that green is just anyone on JGS who pay extra to submit their resume. Frequently that’s also how coaches know the recruit has strong academics. 
 

Good luck to all! 

[MahalNeneng]

We only played when it was available. Played 1 qual in state didnt make it and 1 AJ out of state and 1 in state. Fortunate boy took care played well and got a win. 
Turned down 2 invitationals since. 
Budget still recovering from 10 events this summer. 
AJ Win and Power 5 commit. Mission accomplished. 

[wegobomber31]

2 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Yes, Matthew is a great kid. Imho, he committed a bit early & could have gotten a much higher ranked golf team. That said, he seemed to really like Grand Canyon U & felt it was the best fit. 
 

Btw, I wasn’t highlighting Matthew in the GREEN BOLD - that green is just anyone on JGS who pay extra to submit their resume. Frequently that’s also how coaches know the recruit has strong academics. 
 

Good luck to all! 

my son paired with Michael at the Ping Inv and they had a really nice together. Great kid!

[leezer99]

14 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Yes, Matthew is a great kid. Imho, he committed a bit early & could have gotten a much higher ranked golf team. That said, he seemed to really like Grand Canyon U & felt it was the best fit. 
 

Btw, I wasn’t highlighting Matthew in the GREEN BOLD - that green is just anyone on JGS who pay extra to submit their resume. Frequently that’s also how coaches know the recruit has strong academics. 
 

Good luck to all! 

 

Yea, I couldn't figure out why he committed so early either. Almost seems like after he committed a weight was lifted and he started playing a lot better. 

 

 

[Tugu]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

 

Yea, I couldn't figure out why he committed so early either. Almost seems like after he committed a weight was lifted and he started playing a lot better. 

 

 

Playing for a scholarship is probably the most pro like experience a kid could go through. 

[leezer99]

20 hours ago, Tugu said:

Playing for a scholarship is probably the most pro like experience a kid could go through. 

 

Oh man, he almost mounted the comeback this weekend just falling one shot short of the 3 person playoff. Low round of the event. 

 

[MahalNeneng]

On 10/14/2023 at 6:38 AM, wegobomber31 said:

if your top 100 son had cracked the top 50, are you saying you would have largely passed on these opportunities? Of course you would have played them

Not so much. 

Edited October 19, 2023 by MahalNeneng

[jbz79]

There are many paths to college golf.  It is possible to obtain a scholarship from a top 30 D1 school outside of the top 50 in JGS.  Maybe more difficult, but possible.  It all depends on talent, drive, and knowledgeable support.  

[MahalNeneng]

On 9/13/2023 at 3:26 PM, mrshinsa said:

This was the first year our son played AJGA, and it was an eye-opening experience.

 

Feel free to disagree but JGS ranking matters, and AJGA Rolex matters for college recruiting.

 

Before each AJGA tournament, all attending coaches are given a roster sheet with the list of players and their corresponding rankings.  

 

Can juniors get recruited by doing exceptionally well locally and not playing AJGA?  Yes, and I've seen a few but this is the exception, not the norm.  

 

Also to answer OP's question, course rating is sometimes totally bogus and so can CCA.  Don't want to open a can of worms about this, but a quick search should reveal what I mean and how others share the same thoughts.   

 

Yes, AJGA ranking is limited in that the sample size is so small, but again that's why coaches have JGS to compare with.  

Not sure about that after playing only 1 aj jr 22 summer our 23 recruiting yielded loads of interest june 15.