Pebble Beach Rankings

[G_MANG]

I just got back from playing Spanish Bay, and I've played Pebble and Spyglass previously. Other than the history of PB, can someone explain to me why it's held in such higher esteem than the others? I feel like all three are really special in their own ways (Spyglass brutally challenging with the amazing opening holes; Spanish Bay not right on the water but with amazing views/breeze throughout the entire round; and PB has probably the best 7 holes even though the middle turn is a bit of a come down). This isn't a complaint or anything like that -- I'm just surprised the sentiment is so overwhelmingly PB>Spyglass>SB when it feels like reasonable minds can honestly differ. 

[North Texas]

Okay, here's my take although I'm not sure how well this will explain it. 

 

If I plan a trip to the Monterrey area to play golf, I am going to make sure that I play Pebble Beach. I can't say that for either Spyglass or Spanish Bay. They are both good courses and I have played them both. But neither of them struck me as special and/or a must play. In fact, while on our last trip out there we played Pebble, Carmel Valley Ranch, and Pasatiempo and enjoyed it just as much, if not more, than than our first trip out there when we played Pebble, Spyglass, and Spanish Bay. 

 

For me, I don't understand at all putting Spyglass or Spanish Bay anywhere near the level of Pebble Beach. And that doesn't surprise me at all. 

[Mullenboy]

I think North Texas explains it well.

 

I'm a Californian and I have been fortunate to play Pebble Beach many times.  It never gets old.  To me it is special in a way that neither Spanish Bay nor Spyglass Hill approach.  See I don't think one can put aside the history.  The course just oozes it.  On 17, who doesn't want to try to replicate Nicklaus' 1 iron, Watson's chip from off the green, Woodland's chip from on the green?  Not that one really can.. but one can see where each happened... and to me that takes what might be a relatively ordinary hole and makes it special.  People also call the first 3 holes and 12-16 blah but man if those are blah, what is great in one's world?  Each has something to say.  They do pale a bit compared to the other holes but none are awful.

 

I also love the flow of the course.... the incredible views....

 

I could go on and on.  SB and SH are good golf courses.  They are just not special... not like PB.

 

 

[doc52]

I enjoy Pebble Beach and Spyglass. Spanish Bay is ok, but as stated above, would rather go play Pasatiempo, but then again I would rather play Pasa over all of them...

[So_Cal]

Pebble is considered top 10 US.  The others are not top 100.  Not saying they’re bad but that’s the general perception.  For what they’re asking at the others I’m going to Pasa instead.  

[callawayjay]

I enjoy the mental aspect I have to endure at Spyglass. I’m not a long hitter and for me to succeed there I have to hang on and have a game good enough to do so most days. I will always play pb, sh, and pasa and skip sb. Haven’t played sb in over 10 years. Have multiple rounds on the other 3 in that span 

[jjr]

Pebble, Spyglass, Pasa I'll even throw in Poppy, Spanish Bay no way!

[Mullenboy]

Hmmmmmm

I have had this argument many times with many people.  It seems to be a normal take to denigrate Spanish Bay.

Could more have been made of that property?  Maybe.  But the regulatory restrictions imposed were onerous to say the least.

Is it as great as the others near it?  No.

 

But is it a bad golf course?

Jeez if it is, I need to be in a world where a golf course like that is considered bad.

 

Think about it on relative terms.  I grew up playing Balboa, Encino and Hansen Dam munis in SoCal.. then as an adult, Santa Teresa in San Jose.  Each are perfectly fine golf courses.... fun in their own way.

 

And due to the linksy holes, a few wild greens, some awesome ocean views.... Spanish Bay absolutely blows each of those away.

 

I enjoy Spanish Bay.

[sharkiesj]

6 hours ago, Mullenboy said:

Hmmmmmm

I have had this argument many times with many people.  It seems to be a normal take to denigrate Spanish Bay.

Could more have been made of that property?  Maybe.  But the regulatory restrictions imposed were onerous to say the least.

Is it as great as the others near it?  No.

 

But is it a bad golf course?

Jeez if it is, I need to be in a world where a golf course like that is considered bad.

 

Think about it on relative terms.  I grew up playing Balboa, Encino and Hansen Dam munis in SoCal.. then as an adult, Santa Teresa in San Jose.  Each are perfectly fine golf courses.... fun in their own way.

 

And due to the linksy holes, a few wild greens, some awesome ocean views.... Spanish Bay absolutely blows each of those away.

 

I enjoy Spanish Bay.

Couldn’t have said it any better.  I grew up on Sunnyvale Muni, Deep Cliff and Sunken Gardens.  Then moved to SoCal and had a steady diet of El Rivino, El Rancho Verde, Palm Meadows and Shandin Hills. All of those SoCal courses closed down except for Shandin. All I hear when Spanish Bay comes up is how unauthentic it is for a links course. Yet every time I play it, it gives me an amazing, awesome experience. I love playing SB. 

[So_Cal]

10 hours ago, Mullenboy said:

Hmmmmmm

I have had this argument many times with many people.  It seems to be a normal take to denigrate Spanish Bay.

Could more have been made of that property?  Maybe.  But the regulatory restrictions imposed were onerous to say the least.

Is it as great as the others near it?  No.

 

But is it a bad golf course?

Jeez if it is, I need to be in a world where a golf course like that is considered bad.

 

Think about it on relative terms.  I grew up playing Balboa, Encino and Hansen Dam munis in SoCal.. then as an adult, Santa Teresa in San Jose.  Each are perfectly fine golf courses.... fun in their own way.

 

And due to the linksy holes, a few wild greens, some awesome ocean views.... Spanish Bay absolutely blows each of those away.

 

I enjoy Spanish Bay.

Nothing wrong with it at all.  I’m just not paying more than $100 for it. 

[Mullenboy]

14 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Nothing wrong with it at all.  I’m just not paying more than $100 for it. 

Hmmmmmm again 😉

Most decent public courses in the greater Bay Area cost close to or more than $100.

But that is a fair point.  Perhaps Spanish Bay isn't worth top dollar.  I never pay such... there are very often specials one can get.

 

The point is more against those who say it generally sucks.  And many do.

[doc52]

On 4/26/2023 at 8:22 AM, Mullenboy said:

Hmmmmmm again 😉

Most decent public courses in the greater Bay Area cost close to or more than $100.

But that is a fair point.  Perhaps Spanish Bay isn't worth top dollar.  I never pay such... there are very often specials one can get.

 

The point is more against those who say it generally sucks.  And many do.

 I don't think it's a bad course, just not worth $335.

[jjr]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:49 AM, Mullenboy said:

Hmmmmmm

I have had this argument many times with many people.  It seems to be a normal take to denigrate Spanish Bay.

Could more have been made of that property?  Maybe.  But the regulatory restrictions imposed were onerous to say the least.

Is it as great as the others near it?  No.

 

But is it a bad golf course?

Jeez if it is, I need to be in a world where a golf course like that is considered bad.

 

Think about it on relative terms.  I grew up playing Balboa, Encino and Hansen Dam munis in SoCal.. then as an adult, Santa Teresa in San Jose.  Each are perfectly fine golf courses.... fun in their own way.

 

And due to the linksy holes, a few wild greens, some awesome ocean views.... Spanish Bay absolutely blows each of those away.

 

I enjoy Spanish Bay.

If I'm going to pay top dollar in the Pebble Beach area I'm not paying for Spanish Bay (never said it was bad just said I wouldn't play it with the other choices available), I'm not sure what Poppy cost is now but I'd much rather play it over Spanish.

I've played muni's all my life too, but, I was a private club member in the Bay Area for 20+ years. I don't feel where I've played golf most of my life has any impact on my feeling of the course I'm giving my opinion on.

[Mullenboy]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:56 PM, jjr said:

If I'm going to pay top dollar in the Pebble Beach area I'm not paying for Spanish Bay (never said it was bad just said I wouldn't play it with the other choices available), I'm not sure what Poppy cost is now but I'd much rather play it over Spanish.

I've played muni's all my life too, but, I was a private club member in the Bay Area for 20+ years. I don't feel where I've played golf most of my life has any impact on my feeling of the course I'm giving my opinion on.

OK, understood.  Just the threshold was seemingly set before at $100.  And that's the going rate for any decent public golf in the greater Bay Area, as you know.   I too would not pay "top dollar" to play Spanish Bay... and I also prefer Poppy.... as for where one has played his golf having impact on one's current opinions, it just gives perspective, that's all.

 

And my argument remains not with you and others here who prefer other nearby courses to SB and/or would not pay top dollar to play it... that's fine with me... I agree.

 

My argument is against those who say the course SUCKS, hated it, would never play it ever, etc.  And many do say that.  Though I guess not in this thread!  🙂

[golfinguru11]

Spyglass is a brutal course, to the point where I never come away feeling like I learned much beyond "wow I am not very good at golf". I say this as an objectively good golfer, so I can't imagine how the average player must cope. Unpopular opinion but I enjoy Spanish Bay significantly more. It may ask less questions of you, but it also doesn't berate you. It is additionally a much easier walk than Spyglass, has more interesting native vegetation, and has better views. 

 

Pebble is miles better than both though, and it is because of the combination of the ocean holes, iconic moments (both at the professional and personal level), and a well-designed layout that prioritizes strategic shotmaking, ball striking, and short game above all else. It is not bowling alley golf like RTJ/mid-century country club specials, but it is also not links golf from Sand Valley/Doak/DeVries ilk. It is golden age, but not in the overly penal way many of the top ranked privates are (see: Cypress, Pine Valley, Shinnecock, etc.). It is one of a kind. Nothing like Pebble will be built again in this country, for a multitude of economic and geopolitical reasons. 

 

I could speak all day about how special Pebble is but here are a few (maybe more than a few) words: 

 

From the 2nd hole onwards, Pebble Beach asks questions. The barranca and trees lingering on both sides ask whether you wish to try your luck so early in the round with a clear risk/reward second shot. 3 asks if you wish to go pin hunting and test the road/OB just beyond the green or safely fly something shorter/lower in from the left if you cut the corner enough on your drive. 4 asks for solid a bunker shot since you likely aren't hitting the green - how many shots from under 100 yards can you reliably say that about anyway? 5 asks (like many others to come) whether you wish to court the Pacific Ocean or stay safely short left. Hint: stay safely short left. 6 has a literal 1:1 risk-reward tee shot with a fairway that shrinks as you hit it further. The iconic blind shot is a bit overrated since the landing area is so wide and the rest of the hole isn't stellar (aside from the ocean backdrop) but nevertheless, you won't play another hole that looks like it in your life. 7 asks whether you like the sport of golf, because if you do not like that short wedge shot you do not like golf. 8, similar to 6, asks how close do you wish to flirt with the cliff (don't pull a Spieth!) while the second asks for my favorite shot in golf - a long iron/hybrid over a 100 foot drop with ocean below onto another small green. Another wedge likely. 9 asks righties whether they can hit a 3-wood without slicing it into the Pacific, but entices you with a very open landing area and comparatively large green. Another wedge likely. 10 redundantly asks the same off the tee, only this time with a short iron instead of a 3-wood. 11 asks if you can capitalize on a gift of a birdie hole, though does so with a wry smile because if you aren't in the fairway your approach wedge might be a flyer into the back bunker. 12 asks for more wedge play, because good luck holding your long iron on a green as shallow as a Los Angeles socialite. 13 admittedly doesn't ask much, except if you hit it in a fairway bunker which, like your side mirrors, are closer (to the fairway) than they may appear. 14 asks how comfortable you are with playing a par 5 as a true par 6, because if your ego dictates otherwise, you are faced with either the most difficult long iron/wood shot of the round or a mid-long iron approach onto an elevated lilliputian green guarded by front bunkers that force a carry. 15 asks whether you prefer fairway bunkers or trees in your way (unless you hit a perfect tee shot), else take something less than driver and prolong the inevitable with a mid-iron onto another shrink-ray zapped green. 16 asks, with a nod to the "links" in the course name, how comfortable you are with bunkers in the middle of the fairway, then asks on your second shot "do you have deja vu from your second shot on 2 when you stupidly went for the green?" but this time you must take on the challenge since it only requires a short iron. However, 2 yards left of the postage stamp green is a strategically placed tree which might make you think "stay right" but if you miss short or long right you are in another bunker. Another wedge. 17 asks whether you have Jack's 1-iron in the bag, because if you do you certainly don't have the game to hit the flagstick with it from 210 (I birdied it once but it was probably a mistake). It also asks for another wedge (ask Tom Watson for advice) because the entire green is guarded by bunkers which are themselves guarded by the Pacific Ocean. 18 asks how would you like to deal with this lone tree in the middle of the fairway potentially blocking your approach - hit left of it and flirt with the Ocean or right and land in yet another bunker. Your second shot asks shyly "eagle opportunity?" and you best decline or risk ending the round on a sour note, though a lay up is a final respite. One final short approach and a finish you won't soon forget. 

 

In sum, the fast, postage stamp greens on nearly every hole magnify each approach. When it is windy, which it often is, they are magnified exponentially. In turn, this makes scrambling a more prominent feature than at any other course I have ever played, which I thoroughly enjoy. If you don't fancy yourself a good chipper, you may not have fun. It is a feel course that you can't brute force your way around.

 

To be sure, the last nine winners of the pro-am are currently 146, 136, 133 (Berger-2021, inactive), 149, 157 (Phil-2021, on LIV), 193 (Potter-2020, last year on tour), 62, 189 (Taylor-2022, last year on tour), 182 (Snedeker-2022, last year on tour) in driving distance. Let that sink in. Pebble is the rare course which prioritizes ball striking and short game from the best in the world without being miserable for the amateur like a Pine Valley. It is a joy to play and every golfer should experience it at least once in their lifetime. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by golfinguru11

[Damenace613]

I haven't played Spanish Bay yet but will be playing there along with Spyglass next month. I've played Spyglass twice before and haven't had the best success so hoping to do better this go around! Looking forward to it! 

[Mnalette]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:49 PM, sharkiesj said:

Couldn’t have said it any better.  I grew up on Sunnyvale Muni, Deep Cliff and Sunken Gardens.  Then moved to SoCal and had a steady diet of El Rivino, El Rancho Verde, Palm Meadows and Shandin Hills. All of those SoCal courses closed down except for Shandin. All I hear when Spanish Bay comes up is how unauthentic it is for a links course. Yet every time I play it, it gives me an amazing, awesome experience. I love playing SB. 

Throwing out some old school so cal courses.  Worked at Shandin for a year in college. Decent course surprised it lasted over places like El Rivino.  That course was a blast to play when I was getting into golf mid 90’s. Par 6 staring hole. Great memories of Number 9 tight and short. Stop in for a sandwich at the turn, 7-11 quality from the old guy who worked there maybe the owner if I remember correctly. No joke, dude looked like he could have been a mortician.  Then number 10 elevated tee OB left? Back was better than the front if I remember correct.  Thanks for a flashback to the past.  

[sharkiesj]

46 minutes ago, Mnalette said:

Throwing out some old school so cal courses.  Worked at Shandin for a year in college. Decent course surprised it lasted over places like El Rivino.  That course was a blast to play when I was getting into golf mid 90’s. Par 6 staring hole. Great memories of Number 9 tight and short. Stop in for a sandwich at the turn, 7-11 quality from the old guy who worked there maybe the owner if I remember correctly. No joke, dude looked like he could have been a mortician.  Then number 10 elevated tee OB left? Back was better than the front if I remember correct.  Thanks for a flashback to the past.  

I know going waaaaaaaaaay back in the day!!! I’ll always remember being on the 4th hole when the marshal coming screaming up to everyone shouting “Get off the course, there’s a sniper shooting at people!!!”  We all start running and we made it to the car completely gassed and bewildered.  Jumped in the car and peeled out of there so fast I realized later that 2 headcovers fell off my woods as we were running to the car. Haha!

 

talking about El Rivino 

Edited May 14, 2023 by sharkiesj

[Mnalette]

4 hours ago, sharkiesj said:

I know going waaaaaaaaaay back in the day!!! I’ll always remember being on the 4th hole when the marshal coming screaming up to everyone shouting “Get off the course, there’s a sniper shooting at people!!!”  We all start running and we made it to the car completely gassed and bewildered.  Jumped in the car and peeled out of there so fast I realized later that 2 headcovers fell off my woods as we were running to the car. Haha!

 

talking about El Rivino 

s***, sounds like you had a way better time then I did hitting it in the water on all those holes on the back with the ponds in front of the greens. Sounds like a little good mixed with GTA. I think I remember hearing about a small plane landing on the fairway at Shandin back in the day.

[DoughBack18]

I played Spyglass about a month ago and thought it was fantastic. It was certainly challenging, but wasn’t the brutal test that I had anticipated based on everything i’ve read. Good shots were rewarded, bad shots could get you in some trouble. The views on the first 5 hole are incredible, and the remaining holes running through the pines are certainly no slouches.
 

But as much as I enjoyed it, I agree with others sentiments that the history and scenery at Pebble are what put it in such high regard. I’ve been out for the pro am and walked it several times. The views from 5-10 and 17/18 are just breathtaking. Hearing the waves crashing below you, the sun shining on that beautiful bay and knowing some of the greatest to ever play have strolled those same fairways is tough to beat. 

 

4 at Spyglass on the top and the 18th at Pebble from The Bench. Just heaven

[aloha b.]

On 4/25/2023 at 7:49 AM, Mullenboy said:

Hmmmmmm

I have had this argument many times with many people.  It seems to be a normal take to denigrate Spanish Bay.

Could more have been made of that property?  Maybe.  But the regulatory restrictions imposed were onerous to say the least.

Is it as great as the others near it?  No.

 

But is it a bad golf course?

Jeez if it is, I need to be in a world where a golf course like that is considered bad.

 

Think about it on relative terms.  I grew up playing Balboa, Encino and Hansen Dam munis in SoCal.. then as an adult, Santa Teresa in San Jose.  Each are perfectly fine golf courses.... fun in their own way.

 

And due to the linksy holes, a few wild greens, some awesome ocean views.... Spanish Bay absolutely blows each of those away.

 

I enjoy Spanish Bay.

I enjoy SB too!

[aloha b.]

On 5/9/2023 at 2:49 AM, Mullenboy said:

OK, understood.  Just the threshold was seemingly set before at $100.  And that's the going rate for any decent public golf in the greater Bay Area, as you know.   I too would not pay "top dollar" to play Spanish Bay... and I also prefer Poppy.... as for where one has played his golf having impact on one's current opinions, it just gives perspective, that's all.

 

And my argument remains not with you and others here who prefer other nearby courses to SB and/or would not pay top dollar to play it... that's fine with me... I agree.

 

My argument is against those who say the course SUCKS, hated it, would never play it ever, etc.  And many do say that.  Though I guess not in this thread!  🙂

I agree with your argument for those who say that SB sucks! I never had to pay full price because as a Duke's Club member we got a big discount and I got to bring 3 friends with me and they got to play for the same price as me but we always had a great time.