Swing help: thin hooks (video)

[Wolfhammer]

Hi friends,

 

I’m really struggling here. I took a few weeks off for a surgery and now I’m all out of sorts. I’m dealing with a thin pull hook with my woods which I’ve never had before as a lifelong block/push fade guy. Can anyone shed some light on why this is happening and what I need to do to fix? I think my arms are late maybe?

 

 

 

[jholz]

Holy crap man. That's brutal. I feel for you.

 

Others will be better able to help you - but I'll post this image as a starting point. Things don't look quite right...

 

 

 

[Wolfhammer]

23 minutes ago, jholz said:

Holy crap man. That's brutal. I feel for you.

 

Others will be better able to help you - but I'll post this image as a starting point. Things don't look quite right...

 

 

 

yeah it looks terrible. Results are even worse. 

[FormerBigDaddy]

Cant see the video but thin hooks usually mean too inside out and up with a flip.  Gotta figure out why... but for me it's usually when I'm sliding or dipping my trail shoulder instead of staying level and rotating my chest left (for righty).  At the end of the day you probably need to feel like you're swinging more downward and across. Try to see if you can figure out a way to hit power fades for awhile and then find the middle ground.

Edited June 14, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[GoGoErky]

Common theme among the videos that get posted. Hips working backwards, flat turn. Getting stuck in the swing.

 

 

[jda]

Shakira - Hips Don't Lie.  Fire your hips first and let your front shoulder pull your front arm through with some arm lag.  When they all come at the same time, the hands are early and you pull it.  This is an exaggeration for most amateurs, but think belt buckle pointing at target at impact.  It is OK if you pause your turn at impact as long as the hips are in front of the hands, but try to keep rotating.

[jholz]

I's say with the quality of strike, we've got at least a couple of things going on:

 

1. Loss of posture/EE/Goat Humping - ball going left (and this is where all of the "hip related" comments are coming from)

2. Hand position at impact - high hands, pushed out towards the ball. This is causing you to catch the ball low and extremely out on the heel side

 

It's possible you could have a sway or some other "lateral" movement in there that is exacerbating the thin contact.

 

If you fix #2, then you should be hitting higher hooks.

 

If you fix #1, it might help to address both problems.

 

As always, recognize that these are the musings of a bored, single-digit handicap, idiot who is trying to kill time at work on a Wednesday.

 

Maybe if we generate enough traffic on this thread, Monte, iteachgolf, or other much more knowledgeable individuals than I will give you some better advice.

 

If not, Athletic Motion Golf (AMG) and others have some wonderful youtube content that can help to give you some ideas.

 

Best of luck to you! I'm interested to see what others have to say.

[ferrispgm]

I would defer to someone like Monte but a couple things that stand out.....Shoulders are very open at address and you move to your lead side pretty late.  I would say to square your shoulders and try to get left a tad sooner. 

[MPStrat]

Your arms aren’t late. They actually race toward your midline way too soon accompanied by a big stall of the body. This is a matchup for your grip. 
 

Two things… 

 

First, your trail hand grip screams low hooks. A lot of the things you don’t like about your golf swing are a result of trying to play golf with this grip. It’s both the strength of your right hand and the relationship and pressure points of the two hands that are off. 
 

Second, the footwork and dynamics of your takeaway don’t allow you to do some things that would help you. 
 

The grip is most important. I would work on that for a while. 

 

If you keep this grip, there is a good chance that you will find your timing again and play the block/push fade miss instead of the hook, but the root of the problem is still there. 
 

This grip change is a big one. As I said, you have built a golf swing around allowing your grip to hit the ball somewhat straight. The problem is that the matchups happening in your swing can make your ballflight very erratic.

 

The new grip won’t match what your body does. Some good guidance with this will help you a lot.

Edited June 14, 2023 by MPStrat

[chigolfer1]

looks like pretty classic improper hip movement.   Your left hip is basically moving out on backswing with no depth gained on right hip, then your right hip comes out to start the downswing leading to EE

[aramirez24]

12 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Two things… 

 

First, your trail hand grip screams low hooks. A lot of the things you don’t like about your golf swing are a result of trying to play golf with this grip. It’s both the strength of your right hand and the relationship and pressure points of the two hands that are off. 
 

Second, the footwork and dynamics of your takeaway don’t allow you to do some things that would help you. 
 

The grip is most important. I would work on that for a while. 

What's the issue with this grip? Any stronger on the right hand would cause the club face to be even more closed wouldn't it? Genuinely asking as I feel like the grip is something that has plagued me in the past. 

[Zitlow]

The golf swing is a chain reaction, the lower body leads the chain in the downswing.

 

Wrap your brain around getting yourself loaded on your right side at the top so your lower body can lead your upper body in the downswing. 

 

Stop casting, let your hands and arms react when you start down and get your lower body moving. 

 

You're centered instead of loaded up on your right side. Your body weight should be balanced and supported by your right leg and hip. 

 

 

Brooks gets behind the ball and is loaded and balanced on his leg and hip. You're centered. 

 

Watch his lower body lead his upper body in the downswing. 

 

 

You've already shot your wad by the time you get to P5, too much with your hands and arms not enough COM.  

 

 

Look how far in front his COM is, his lower body is leading the chain. His upper body is resisting the escape force of the clubhead.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2023 by Zitlow

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, aramirez24 said:

What's the issue with this grip? Any stronger on the right hand would cause the club face to be even more closed wouldn't it? Genuinely asking as I feel like the grip is something that has plagued me in the past. 

Right hand grip too strong is the issue 

[KMeloney]

OP -- Where are you aiming in the down-the-line video? If you're not trying to hit it over the left half of the tree on the right side of the screen, then you're WAY closed (though your shoulders are way open), and are completely jamming yourself up from there. You might hit the occasional big push draw from there, but if your target is anywhere left of there, then you're going to swing way in-to-out, shut the face to not block if off the planet, and will duck hook it all day long.

[Railroading13]

roll your right foot inward toward the target in transition and finish on your left side

[Wolfhammer]

45 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

OP -- Where are you aiming in the down-the-line video? If you're not trying to hit it over the left half of the tree on the right side of the screen, then you're WAY closed (though your shoulders are way open), and are completely jamming yourself up from there. You might hit the occasional big push draw from there, but if your target is anywhere left of there, then you're going to swing way in-to-out, shut the face to not block if off the planet, and will duck hook it all day long.

 

I am NOT aiming that way. You are right my feet are way closed.

[Wolfhammer]

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Golf is really hard. Now I only need to work on a proper pivot, a new grip, and my alignment. Easy!

Edited June 14, 2023 by Wolfhammer

[KMeloney]

21 minutes ago, Wolfhammer said:

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Golf is really hard. Now I only need to for on a proper pivot, a new grip, and my alignment. Easy!

 

Haha Well, I'd start by having someone make sure you're aligned properly, and see if that allows the other parts of your swing to function adequately. It's amazing how the correct alignment can cure a lot of ills.

[MPStrat]

31 minutes ago, Wolfhammer said:

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Golf is really hard. Now I only need to for on a proper pivot, a new grip, and my alignment. Easy!

The grip is the first step in fixing this

 

And learning to hit it off of your trail side instead of pulling your arms forward across your body

 

 

 

 

 

[jholz]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

The grip is the first step in fixing this

 

And learning to hit it off of your trail side instead of pulling your arms forward across your body

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. Thanks. Those two videos are eye opening.

[KMeloney]

I've seen that "Strike it on your trail side" video before... And whereas I think I know what the guy is trying to say, I don't think he says it well at all. Anyone else want to take a shot at concisely stating the key move(s) and feel(s) portrayed in the video?

[iacas]

21 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

I've seen that "Strike it on your trail side" video before... And whereas I think I know what the guy is trying to say, I don't think he says it well at all. Anyone else want to take a shot at concisely stating the key move(s) and feel(s) portrayed in the video?

 

I think it's more about how you don't have to try to get your hands forward of your belly button or sternum to hit it well. That the handle being forward relative to your body is just an illusion based on where the camera is pointing.

[Peter_b]

Early extension it is. Your hip does not stay back and you are starting with your arms frst from the top. There is a lot to happen before they can start. Not a teacher, can only say how I got out of it.  Watch Montes "Zipper away video" on youtube that’s where the hip goes while the arms do nothing then turn your hip anticlockwise while the arms do nothing. You understand that turn by doing  the feet together drill alot. Feel what the a** does. If you make that you are in P6. Then you can go with the arms and extend out of that hip turn. Setting up that arms pause to P6 is maybe the hardest thing in golf imho. Mike Emerys book explains it well.

[MPStrat]

3 hours ago, KMeloney said:

I've seen that "Strike it on your trail side" video before... And whereas I think I know what the guy is trying to say, I don't think he says it well at all. Anyone else want to take a shot at concisely stating the key move(s) and feel(s) portrayed in the video?

 The big key is that the hands for the most part stay “in front” of the shoulders, but trail the other segments. The look of the “arms behind” is most often a problem that starts in the backswing when the arms get too far behind the shoulders. (Jim Waldron’s arm swing illusion)
 

Viktors hands are as far forward relative to his shoulders as any tour player. From 2d it looks like he’s hitting the ball off of his lead side but he is not.
 

His hands are staying “in front” of his shoulders but trailing his lower body and much closer to his trail leg at impact than his lead leg. 
 

Amateurs see this and pull the arms forward across their body to get shaft lean. This causes the body to freeze in the downswing to allow their intention. 

[jholz]

While I do very much appreciate the "trail side strike" videos - I can't say that they are relevant to the OPs troubles right now.

 

He's got A, B, and C to fix before he gets to K.

[MPStrat]

7 minutes ago, jholz said:

While I do very much appreciate the "trail side strike" videos - I can't say that they are relevant to the OPs troubles right now.

 

He's got A, B, and C to fix before he gets to K.

Grip is A, B and C  

[jholz]

2 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Grip is A, B and C  

 

Yeah, I feel you - and believe me, I'm benefiting from your contribution to the discussion. No questions there. Appreciate the knowledge.

 

Grip, balance, and posture maintenance (i.e. hip movement) tend to be my A, B, and C. Perhaps the "trail side strike" idea is a way of getting there. 🤷‍♂️

 

I'm certainly not the person to state "gospel truth" around here.

 

 

Edited June 15, 2023 by jholz

[Wolfhammer]

I worked on Monte's "Power Shift" a bit before I was out post surgery for four weeks. When I started swinging again I guess I had forgotten all the work I had done. Started to implement the feels yesterday and today and results are better. Thanks again fellas.

[Wolfhammer]

2 hours ago, jholz said:

 

Yeah, I feel you - and believe me, I'm benefiting from your contribution to the discussion. No questions there. Appreciate the knowledge.

 

Grip, balance, and posture maintenance (i.e. hip movement) tend to by my A, B, and C. Perhaps the "trail side strike" idea is a way of getting there. 🤷‍♂️

 

I'm certainly not the person to state "gospel truth" around here.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Grip is A, B and C  

 

Whoa, this is going to take some time. Weakening my right hand is resulting in a wide open clubface. This is not a simple fix. 

[Wolfhammer]

23 hours ago, KMeloney said:

 

Haha Well, I'd start by having someone make sure you're aligned properly, and see if that allows the other parts of your swing to function adequately. It's amazing how the correct alignment can cure a lot of ills.

 

Fixing alignment had immediate positive results. Not swinging a club for a month really messed up my orientation I guess. I was set up very closed. The actual alignment was off, but to add to it, I was flaring my right foot out as well. Checking my alignment and adjusting my right foot helped a ton. Thank you!