Drop question

[MikeW2]

I have a question about where to drop…the hole we played has a creek that meanders across the fairway at about a 45* angle with a natural land bridge in the center. My drive went into the creek about 10 yards right of the bridge but by the time we had walked up there the current had moved my ball downstream and we found it about 15 yards left of the bridge and still moving. I dropped where I was sure it entered but my buddy said that I could have dropped it where we found it. It was just a fun round with nothing on the line so this is a curiosity question for future reference especially since if I used it his spot would have made my approach a lot easier.

[nsxguy]

31 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

I have a question about where to drop…the hole we played has a creek that meanders across the fairway at about a 45* angle with a natural land bridge in the center. My drive went into the creek about 10 yards right of the bridge but by the time we had walked up there the current had moved my ball downstream and we found it about 15 yards left of the bridge and still moving. I dropped where I was sure it entered but my buddy said that I could have dropped it where we found it. It was just a fun round with nothing on the line so this is a curiosity question for future reference especially since if I used it his spot would have made my approach a lot easier.

 

Pretty sure the only point that matters is where it LAST crossed the margin of the PA.

 

In your case, to the right of the bridge.

[MikeW2]

12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Pretty sure the only point that matters is where it LAST crossed the margin of the PA.

 

In your case, to the right of the bridge.

Thanks, that’s what I thought.

[rogolf]

22 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

I have a question about where to drop…the hole we played has a creek that meanders across the fairway at about a 45* angle with a natural land bridge in the center. My drive went into the creek about 10 yards right of the bridge but by the time we had walked up there the current had moved my ball downstream and we found it about 15 yards left of the bridge and still moving. I dropped where I was sure it entered but my buddy said that I could have dropped it where we found it. It was just a fun round with nothing on the line so this is a curiosity question for future reference especially since if I used it his spot would have made my approach a lot easier.

You proceeded correctly. The reference point is where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area, not where it eventually came to rest once within the penalty area. 

[Schulzmc]

What if the moving water had carried the ball so far that it was found off the course and out of bounds?

[st1800e]

Just now, Schulzmc said:

What if the moving water had carried the ball so far that it was found off the course and out of bounds?

Irrelevant.  Drop where it last crossed the margin.  

[MikeW2]

I spoke with my friend and from what he said I think he saw something about “casual “ water and thought that would apply.

[rogolf]

20 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

What if the moving water had carried the ball so far that it was found off the course and out of bounds?

Then the ball is not in the penalty area, it is out of bounds.

[Newby]

3 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

What if the moving water had carried the ball so far that it was found off the course and out of bounds outside the Penalty Area?

I depends on where the ball IS not where it has been.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Newby

[iacas]

4 hours ago, st1800e said:

Irrelevant.  Drop where it last crossed the margin.  

👎🏼

3 hours ago, rogolf said:

Then the ball is not in the penalty area, it is out of bounds.

38 minutes ago, Newby said:

I depends on where the ball IS not where it has been.

👍🏼

18.2a(2)/1 – Ball Moved Out of Bounds by Flow of Water

If a flow of water (either temporary water or water in a penalty area) carries a ball out of bounds, the player must take stroke-and-distance relief (Rule 18.2b). Water is a natural force, not an outside influence, therefore Rule 9.6 does not apply.

Edited June 17, 2023 by iacas

[MikeW2]

26 minutes ago, iacas said:

👎🏼

👍🏼

18.2a(2)/1 – Ball Moved Out of Bounds by Flow of Water

If a flow of water (either temporary water or water in a penalty area) carries a ball out of bounds, the player must take stroke-and-distance relief (Rule 18.2b). Water is a natural force, not an outside influence, therefore Rule 9.6 does not apply.

So now I’m confused. In the scenario in my original post should I have dropped where it went into the creek or where we found it downstream? And to add to this, it was still moving along the bottom of the creek bed when I pulled it out of the water…so does this mean it never actually came to rest?

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, MikeW2 said:

So now I’m confused. In the scenario in my original post should I have dropped where it went into the creek or where we found it downstream? And to add to this, it was still moving along the bottom of the creek bed when I pulled it out of the water…so does this mean it never actually came to rest?

 

If it's still on the course, it's in the penalty area, so where it last crossed the margin.

 

Once you put another ball in play (i.e. drop), the ball in the creek (or whatever it was) has no real relevance. So if in two hours it ends up OB because you don't retrieve it… it doesn't matter.

[sui generis]

5 hours ago, st1800e said:

Irrelevant.  Drop where it last crossed the margin.  

 

That's not a very good answer. The point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area is the "reference point" for taking relief under R17.1.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=17&subrulenum=1

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, sui generis said:

 

That's not a very good answer. The point where the ball last crossed the edge of the penalty area is the "reference point" for taking relief under R17.1.

 

https://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-clarifications/rules-and-clarifications.html#!ruletype=fr&section=rule&rulenum=17&subrulenum=1

 

Earlier posts have been filled with much more detailed (read: far better) information but maybe you just woke up and had not time to read the thread... 🥱