That 30-40 yard pitch…

[iacas]

3 hours ago, gsrjc said:

I do. I’m a 9.9

 

You shouldn't if you care about your scoring. If you like to play that way for fun, then, do whatever. 🙂 

[Chunkitgood]

This may be psychological.  People are more disappointed with the results of 30  shots which run off the green the green than with 100 shots that never touch the green.

[st1800e]

On 7/11/2023 at 1:44 PM, Ri_Redneck said:

And the average amateur hardly practices or warms up before trying to shoot their best game. It's not happening.

maybe, not probable based the law of averages, but I once scrambled to pack my suitcase, had to search and retrieve my passport from the couch where my kids had left (hidden) it, made a 5 hour drive in 4.5 hours, arrived  for my tee time with 4 minutes to spare.  Shot 68, as a 5 handicap, first time under par....

 

One in a million?   

Edited July 15, 2023 by st1800e

[North Butte]

5 hours ago, st1800e said:

maybe, not probable based the law of averages, but I once scrambled to pack my suitcase, had to search and retrieve my passport from the couch where my kids had left (hidden) it, made a 5 hour drive in 4.5 hours, arrived  for my tee time with 4 minutes to spare.  Shot 68, as a 5 handicap, first time under par....

 

One in a million?   

Nice round. 68 off a 5hcp isn't one in a million but you sure don't see it often!

 

It's crazy how people project their own quirks onto every other golfer in the world. If one guy can't play a lick without a 45-minute practice session beforehand, then he believes it's necessary for you and me as well.

 

That's just as silly as I would be to think since I can't hit a 16-degree driving iron then anyone who uses one is just wasting strokes. 

 

Elaborate practice sessions before every round of golf is a habit. Not a bad habit, if it makes you happy or it helps your golf. But just a habit, not an essential part of every golfer's game. 

 

And back to the original topic. There are plenty of 9.9 (or higher) handicaps in the world perfectly happy "flag hunting" at sucker pins from 100 yards. That may not be an optimum strategy for winning a 72-hole stroke play tournament on a tough course but it's certainly not dumb. Making a big number once in a while ain't gonna cost you your Tour card...

[doctor220]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

Nice round. 68 off a 5hcp isn't one in a million but you sure don't see it often!

 

It's crazy how people project their own quirks onto every other golfer in the world. If one guy can't play a lick without a 45-minute practice session beforehand, then he believes it's necessary for you and me as well.

 

That's just as silly as I would be to think since I can't hit a 16-degree driving iron then anyone who uses one is just wasting strokes. 

 

Elaborate practice sessions before every round of golf is a habit. Not a bad habit, if it makes you happy or it helps your golf. But just a habit, not an essential part of every golfer's game. 

 

And back to the original topic. There are plenty of 9.9 (or higher) handicaps in the world perfectly happy "flag hunting" at sucker pins from 100 yards. That may not be an optimum strategy for winning a 72-hole stroke play tournament on a tough course but it's certainly not dumb. Making a big number once in a while ain't gonna cost you your Tour card...

People always assume when you talk about not aiming at the pin that you are aiming far away. Depending on the pin I may aim 5-6 feet to one side from 100 yards , which is still extremely close if I hit a good shot 

[North Butte]

6 minutes ago, doctor220 said:

People always assume when you talk about not aiming at the pin that you are aiming far away. Depending on the pin I may aim 5-6 feet to one side from 100 yards , which is still extremely close if I hit a good shot 

I guess it depends on the exact meaning of "aim". 

 

There are some pretty firm and sloped ridges in my home course's greens. Even from 100 yards I sometimes have to take into account that the ball will kick left or right off a slope. 

 

So from 100 yards my "aim" (in the sense of where I am intending the ball to go) is the hole. But I may have to plan on landing it 10-15 feet left or right (or land it short) to use the slope to get it there. So my "aim" (in the sense of alignment) will be at that landing spot. 

 

That's just the life of a low clubhead speed, low spin, low trajectory golfer. I wish I could be stopping a 100-yard shot (that's full pitching wedge for me) right where it lands. In that case I'd be "aiming" at the flag in every sense of the word from 100 yards. 

 

The thing I totally quit doing about a year ago was "aiming" left or right in an attempt to anticipate where I might pull or push or hook or slice the shot. I found that a constant habit of trying to assuage doubts about my ability to hit where I was aiming was counterproductive. I now aim where I intend the ball to land and if I miss it left or right I deal with it.

[SNIPERBBB]

8 minutes ago, North Butte said:

I guess it depends on the exact meaning of "aim". 

 

There are some pretty firm and sloped ridges in my home course's greens. Even from 100 yards I sometimes have to take into account that the ball will kick left or right off a slope. 

 

So from 100 yards my "aim" (in the sense of where I am intending the ball to go) is the hole. But I may have to plan on landing it 10-15 feet left or right (or land it short) to use the slope to get it there. So my "aim" (in the sense of alignment) will be at that landing spot. 

 

That's just the life of a low clubhead speed, low spin, low trajectory golfer. I wish I could be stopping a 100-yard shot (that's full pitching wedge for me) right where it lands. In that case I'd be "aiming" at the flag in every sense of the word from 100 yards. 

 

The thing I totally quit doing about a year ago was "aiming" left or right in an attempt to anticipate where I might pull or push or hook or slice the shot. I found that a constant habit of trying to assuage doubts about my ability to hit where I was aiming was counterproductive. I now aim where I intend the ball to land and if I miss it left or right I deal with it.

I like to refer to "Flag Hunting" as playing lawn darts. When you have receptive greens where you can drop balls on top of the flag and they dont go anywhere after they land. Hard or slopey greens or you have to run the ball up to the green is more like putting because you have to read the break and get the speed right to get the ball close.  Most course I play, and most public courses are more or less the same, you can play lawn darts. Some holes you might have to play croquet more.

[RoyalTroon]

19 hours ago, gsrjc said:

I do. I’m a 9.9

 

That's great, playing your own game instead of someone else's statistics.  

 

 

 

[dubbelbogey]

5 hours ago, BALLYBUNION said:

 

That's great, playing your own game instead of someone else's statistics.  

 

True enough, but if you're really doing something that is greatly outside of the range of what most others who play the game well do, I'd say you'd better look at that darn closely and make sure it's of true benefit (or at least not doing your scores harm.) 

 

Anecdotal events that stick out in one's mind as having been successful at some point is really not sufficient. Nor is pure "belief" or "confidence". Those are factors, for sure, but not enough on their own to make a sound decision. 

 

Furyk's swing is an example where an outlier has proven to be effective. My friend's continued insistence on hitting lob-wedge for 80% of his pitch/chip shots because he has pulled off the amazing shot from time to time, is definitely an example of "his game" costing him strokes.

 

 

[Ri_Redneck]

On 7/12/2023 at 12:18 PM, Varry_Hardon said:

 

That's why the link to the Lou Stagner letter is interesting, where he compared players to themselves, every cap levels (at least 30 half wedge shots 40-60yds range and at least 30 full wedge shots 90-110yds range) and found that 96% of the players were better on half wedge shots for all of these: number of shots to hole out, hit green %, average and median proximity. So even for players that think they do better from 100, only 1 out of 20 actually is.

Just to throw a bit more into the mix...... I am much more confident at 40 yds than 30 yds because 40 yds is on my clock. 30 is about the same amount of backswing as 40 with just a touch less acceleration through the ball. Had one Friday and ended up catching it a shade heavy (mushy conditions and yes, I used the bounce!) and left myself 25' instead of 10'. Contact only cost me about 5' of carry, but that was enough to have it hit on the up-slope instead of the flat I was aiming at. I had some other 40-60yd pitches that came up good in the same round. I think it's mainly because 20-30 yds is between making a pitching stroke and a putting stroke (which I use for anything inside 15 yds).

 

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:51 AM, SNIPERBBB said:

I like to refer to "Flag Hunting" as playing lawn darts. When you have receptive greens where you can drop balls on top of the flag and they dont go anywhere after they land. Hard or slopey greens or you have to run the ball up to the green is more like putting because you have to read the break and get the speed right to get the ball close.  Most course I play, and most public courses are more or less the same, you can play lawn darts. Some holes you might have to play croquet more.

YES!! Firm greens require much more forethought on approach shots. Sometimes it's better to not even land on the green at all if there is a friendly slope that can check forward momentum and hop the ball toward the hole. Another reason knowing course conditions is important. I've seen soft greens & firm fwys, firm greens & soft fwys, both soft and both firm. Knowing what you face allows for much better decision making.

 

BT

[SNIPERBBB]

Just to add a bit about stock shots... They don't exist inside 125,max of my ,48, for me. Sure I have some perfect Numbers for carries when I need to hit it safe on the green type shots  but for getting it close, no stock shots. 

[Fairways_and_Greens]

On 7/5/2023 at 6:40 AM, Varry_Hardon said:

Looking for any tips from guys with great short game, I’m particularly interested in the 30-40 yards range. Not those bump and runs and/or close to the green chips/pitches, but more of those medium range around the green shots.

 

I know it’s a low priority category when it comes to other aspects of practice and score improvements because they’re infrequent shots and part of those up and down numbers are related to the upcoming putt. Still, when looking at stats : Tour pros, pluses and scratch guys proximity from that range is way better than mine (10-15 ft range compared to 20 ft – with 29% and 27% u&d numbers from pros and scratch respectively compared to my 20%)

 

How do you approach these shots – lie assessment, green complex, proximity target, spin and trajectory control, to go club, etc? Or is it more related to the previous approach shot and to make sure you’re not short-sided (even though a lot of those shots are coming from ‘going for it’ on Par5s)… anything to help a Wrx fellow…  

I'm a 3.6 handicap and according to Arccos have a + handicap shortgame...

 

• The lie wins out over everything. I don't try to do anything the lie won't allow me to. The lie limits your options. Knowing if the ball is going to likely come out low with spin, or high with low spin is the first part of the equation.
• As you start to understand the spin/trajectory probability of the lie dependent shot you're going to play, green reading is huge. Aimpoint classic made me a much better reader/understander of greens. Being able to read greens is critical for pitching it close on firm/fast greens. Tiger said it best "you have to control what the ball does in the air to control what it does on the ground". The relationship to spin/trajectory is super important to understand. A low spinning shot hitting a left>right slope is going to go right harder than a high-non-spinning shot. Being able to see in your mind what the ball is going to do when it lands is critical. I like going to the chipping range and hitting a variety of shots into up/down/side slopes and predict the trajectory and what it's going to do on the ground the second I hit it. This helps get a feel for bringing it all together.
• Pick the most aggressive target you can without bringing a "penalty" into play. If I have a super tight/firm lie, and I have a pitch to an elevated pin right on the other side of the bunker, I'll probably pitch to the side, or try to hit past the pin by a safe margin. You have to be realistic to what shots are red light vs green light shot.
• Target selection goes into your approach. Advance the ball as close as you can to the hole without penalty (OB, hazard, plugged in a bunker, under a tree, shortside in deep rough, etc). Understanding your shot pattern and picking the right target into the green is super important. Pros are generally more aggressive off the tee, and more conservative into the green than ams. The best resource is Shawn Faucett's Birdiefire program and "Every Shot Counts" by Broadie. Erik's "Lowest Score Wins" is a good primer if you haven't been exposed to Faucett or Broadie. Lou Stagner posts a lot of interesting stats in the space as well.
• Technique wise, there a lot of great resources. I really like Shortgame Chef. Monte has some good stuff too.
• Equipment wise you need to know that every manufacturer measures bounce different. My Vokey 60T 4* is almost the same grind as my old Callaway 60C 10*! Getting fit for wedges is sooooo hard unless you're doing it on grass. Some bounces out there are really helpful to protect you against disaster, but really limit your growth and options. There's no free lunch here. I play in Washington, and the wedges I need in the winter when everything is soft/mucky are very different than the ones I need in summer when it gets baked out.

[MattC555]

 

On 7/14/2023 at 7:23 PM, gsrjc said:

I do. I’m a 9.9

 

I'd offer you advice, but it was already given:

 

On 7/14/2023 at 9:25 AM, nitram said:

If I can offer one thing from playing this game for 45 years now is keep your game as simple as possible. I see more amateurs at every level try to hit complicated shots when something more simple would be more serviceable, and they would score better. And they are always thinking, " if I hit this shot right my ball will be next to the pin." But never seem to think about the result(s) if they don't. And the success rate is roughly 25%, at best.

 

Keep it simple. It's not as sexy, but your scores will be better.

[Louis_Posture]

On 7/15/2023 at 6:34 PM, dubbelbogey said:

My friend's continued insistence on hitting lob-wedge for 80% of his pitch/chip shots because he has pulled off the amazing shot from time to time, is definitely an example of "his game" costing him strokes.

 

 

This is common and a primary contributor to higher than need be amateur scoring.

[Zitlow]

Someone mentioned James Ridyard so I checked out some of his YouTube videos. I hit this shot yesterday from 95 yards to a front pin. Landed it a couple yards short of the green and it worked out good. 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by Zitlow