Average driving distance by handicap

[PracticeSwinger]

According to Arccos, total distance including rollout. We all know about distance being a big helper for the scorecard, so is that just chicken and egg?

Or is there more to it, since these numbers are averages off all drives : it’s probably not only related to swing speed but also strike consistency. If half your drives are topped, completely sliced with huge spin numbers and/or result in a 180 yds shot because a tree got in the way - are those numbers saying more about speed and/or accuracy and/or ‘not missing it badly often’ ?

[MPStrat]

These numbers are interesting. At a modestly difficult club course from the big boy tees, I would think it would require an incredible short game and long irons to average 240 off the tee and maintain a scratch or plus handicap. 
 

However, you bring up a good point about the ones that catch a tree branch and get knocked down playing a role in the average. When we are discussing average drive, it’s always “average good drive”. Never the 220 yard low heel spinner into the wind. I’m not sure how many of those are needed to really bring down the average significantly. 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

These numbers are interesting. At a modestly difficult club course from the big boy tees, I would think it would require an incredible short game and long irons to average 240 off the tee and maintain a scratch or plus handicap. 
 

However, you bring up a good point about the ones that catch a tree branch and get knocked down playing a role in the average. When we are discussing average drive, it’s always “average good drive”. Never the 220 yard low heel spinner into the wind. I’m not sure how many of those are needed to really bring down the average significantly. 

 

There are several tees at the course I play where you hit an iron or a hybrid off several par fours (and a 3W off a few par fives).

[Sean124]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

There are several tees at the course I play where you hit an iron or a hybrid off several par fours (and a 3W off a few par fives).

Does Arccos count other clubs besides driver for this? I have no idea, never used it. 

[MPStrat]

Just now, iacas said:

 

There are several tees at the course I play where you hit an iron or a hybrid off several par fours (and a 3W off a few par fives).

Ya same. There are 2 holes at my course where if you carry driver more than about 220, you have to hit an iron off the tee. But how does that change the conversation? 

[MPStrat]

3 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

Does Arccos count other clubs besides driver for this? I have no idea, never used it. 

I haven’t either but I think there is a sensor on each club so it knows when Driver was used. Maybe someone who uses it can explain. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by MPStrat

[JetSpeed79]

At first I thought this was the wrxer avg 7i distance chart. 

[iacas]

Yeah, so, I goofed. I was in the mental space of another app and its data which is "average tee shot distance," but this one is clearly labeled "driver distance." The one I was thinking of tells you the average distance of every tee shot distance on par fours and fives. Mine is over 30 yards less than my average driver distance.

 

Sorry for the waste of time and bits. I apologize.

[ZipinZ]

5 minutes ago, JetSpeed79 said:

At first I thought this was the wrxer avg 7i distance chart. 

 

Well ..... maybe 5i.

[PracticeSwinger]

20 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

These numbers are interesting. At a modestly difficult club course from the big boy tees, I would think it would require an incredible short game and long irons to average 240 off the tee and maintain a scratch or plus handicap. 
 

However, you bring up a good point about the ones that catch a tree branch and get knocked down playing a role in the average. When we are discussing average drive, it’s always “average good drive”. Never the 220 yard low heel spinner into the wind. I’m not sure how many of those are needed to really bring down the average significantly. 

That’s why I was wondering since, if you drive it 260 on 12 of your drives but the 13th is a cold top 120yds and the last one hits a tree and drops at 120yds also - then you average 240yds for that round… 

 

So, are scratch guys more of the 270ish and occasional 160er… or consistent 240ish ‘bunters’… probably a mix of both with the former representing the majority

 

Now, if we look at the higher caps groups…

[GoGoErky]

25 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

These numbers are interesting. At a modestly difficult club course from the big boy tees, I would think it would require an incredible short game and long irons to average 240 off the tee and maintain a scratch or plus handicap. 
 

However, you bring up a good point about the ones that catch a tree branch and get knocked down playing a role in the average. When we are discussing average drive, it’s always “average good drive”. Never the 220 yard low heel spinner into the wind. I’m not sure how many of those are needed to really bring down the average significantly. 

I don’t think it takes into account the tee box one is using or the course rating/slope. So some of those

low handicaps could be from shorter tees and/or easier courses.

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 minute ago, Varry_Hardon said:

That’s why I was wondering since, if you drive it 260 on 12 of your drives but the 13th is a cold top 120yds and the last one hits a tree and drops at 120yds also - then you average 240yds for that round… 

 

So, are scratch guys more of the 270ish and occasional 160er… or consistent 240ish ‘bunters’… probably a mix of both with the former representing the majority

 

Now, if we look at the higher caps groups…

Scratch guys aren't rolling their drives... Maybe once a month. 

[GolfTurkey]

It would be interesting to see the median drive as opposed to the average drive to get a feel for the "normal" driving distance, not an average distance skewed by the occasional horror shot.

[tatertot]

1 minute ago, GoGoErky said:

I don’t think it takes into account the tee box one is using or the course rating/slope. So some of those

low handicaps could be from shorter tees and/or easier courses.

 

 

That's not how handicaps work ... You don't get a low handicap playing short/easy courses ... Unless you go stupid low regularly.

[PracticeSwinger]

1 minute ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Scratch guys aren't rolling their drives... Maybe once a month. 

Fair statement - I was just trying to find a way to state that 12x 260 + 2x 120 would give a 240 round average… let’s say both this hit trees close to the aim point (or dogleg or else)… maybe those guys don’t exist and it’s just that scratch guys truly hit it 240 including rollout (?)

[PracticeSwinger]

2 minutes ago, GolfTurkey said:

It would be interesting to see the median drive as opposed to the average drive to get a feel for the "normal" driving distance, not an average distance skewed by the occasional horror shot.

Agreed, as a 3ish cap, my median is 258 but average it drops to 246 (coming from those horror drives) - why I plan rounds with that median number in mind when mapping it and not my average distance 

[tatertot]

7 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Scratch guys aren't rolling their drives... Maybe once a month. 

This ... You think a plus is topping a 110 drive once a round? I'm a 3, and I think I've hit 1 truly gnarly drive my last 15 rounds. And I average about 240 with my driver.

Edited July 27, 2023 by tatertot

[SNIPERBBB]

3 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Fair statement - I was just trying to find a way to state that 12x 260 + 2x 120 would give a 240 round average… let’s say both this hit trees close to the aim point (or dogleg or else)… maybe those guys don’t exist and it’s just that scratch guys truly hit it 240 including rollout (?)

USGA figures that a scratch golfer drives the ball 250  total.

[PracticeSwinger]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

This ... You think a plus is topping a 110 drive once a round? I'm a 3, and I think I've hit 1 truly Word not allowed drive my last 15 rounds. And I average about 240 with my driver.

We’re in the same boat, so I’m guessing we can toss out the ‘crew’ that would be ‘wild bomber scratch dudes’… thus, that average speaks more to consistency and accuracy than pure speed (?)

[SNIPERBBB]

2 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

We’re in the same boat, so I’m guessing we can toss out the ‘crew’ that would be ‘wild bomber scratch dudes’… thus, that average speaks more to consistency and accuracy than pure speed (?)

Distance gives you a better potential. Still gotta figure out how to keep it on the planet. And learn how to hit a half wedge. Play with a lot of my fellow long knockers and they just don't know how to take distance off a club. 

[GolfTurkey]

The bad drive distance will be influenced a lot by where you play.

 

I play a tight tree-lined course where any low offline shot will clank a tree and usually go straight down or even backwards.

 

E.g. a low hook that might roll out to 250 on an open course could go 100 on my course when it dings a tree and comes backwards.

[Sean124]

Maybe my perceptions are skewed because when I play with scratch golfers, it’s in AGA tournaments that regularly play over 7000 yards. 
 

It’s possible those attract the longer hitters, but 240 average with driver is just something I don’t see. 

[MPStrat]

1 minute ago, Varry_Hardon said:

So, are scratch guys more of the 270ish and occasional 160er… or consistent 240ish ‘bunters’… probably a mix of both with the former representing the majority

 
I will go anecdotal on this question

 

I think much of this depends on course length. 
 

I’ll speak in terms of “average good drive”
 

All of the plus caps at my club are at least 270-280 total and many are over 300 total on their good drives. I don’t personally know any plus cap 230-240 players. Definitely some in the low single digit realm. 

 

One example… 15 time club champion and traveling plus index at my club is now 72 years old, in fantastic shape but says he has lost 40-50 yards on his driver over the last 2 decades. His good drives are now about 240-250 total. Because my club employs the 85 rule (your handicap plus your age), and he is still a low single digit, he is not eligible to play the up tees in competition. He has as good of a long iron and short game as anyone but has gone from breaking par to shooting 75-78. He says that the sole reason is the loss in distance. I will say that it’s certainly not for lack of short game. 

[PracticeSwinger]

2 minutes ago, Sean124 said:

Maybe my perceptions are skewed because when I play with scratch golfers, it’s in AGA tournaments that regularly play over 7000 yards. 
 

It’s possible those attract the longer hitters, but 240 average with driver is just something I don’t see. 

As the OP I’m trying to figure out this one also, maybe those are are pluses and ‘not only scratch’ - as I’m a decent stick (nothing to write home about though) and can ‘easily’ send it over 250 (especially total rollout) and I don’t think off the tee is a definite skill of mine, so I’m trying to figure out that 239 total drives average for scratch guys

[tatertot]

1 minute ago, Varry_Hardon said:

As the OP I’m trying to figure out this one also, maybe those are are pluses and ‘not only scratch’ - as I’m a decent stick (nothing to write home about though) and can ‘easily’ send it over 250 (especially total rollout) and I don’t think off the tee is a definite skill of mine, so I’m trying to figure out that 239 total drives average for scratch guys

Maybe only short hitters use Arccos?

[Sean124]

5 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

As the OP I’m trying to figure out this one also, maybe those are are pluses and ‘not only scratch’ - as I’m a decent stick (nothing to write home about though) and can ‘easily’ send it over 250 (especially total rollout) and I don’t think off the tee is a definite skill of mine, so I’m trying to figure out that 239 total drives average for scratch guys

The average range in my groups seems to be 2 to +2. I like to look up their caps. 
 

Almost every one of them hits 3 wood longer than 240. 
 

 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Who cares what some chart says? I prefer to utilize the evidence on the course.

Every now and again I come across a golfer that loves to talk about his longest drives and I'm always waiting for him to take his second shot......

[LKNgolf]

What a dumb stat.  No wonder USGA wants to kill the golf ball.  They think scratch golfers only need to bunt it out there 240.  
 

but seriously, if 240 is your top dog drive and you are scratch I bow down to you, whoever you are. 

Edited July 27, 2023 by LKNgolf
I misread the stat. My bad

[Roejye]

Something about this just seems off, because according to this I'm a plus cap off the tee, and while that is probably the strength of my game, it's not plus cap. 

 

Looking at the graph there's no distance unit labeling on the y axis, so if it's meant to be read as meters that makes a lot more sense. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Roejye
Typo

[PhillipG78]

While it’s not impossible to find a scratch golfer who only hits it 240, with todays drivers that seems very low.