NFL Weekly Picks 2023

touch · December 27, 2023

Our Picks Week 17

P3P Atlanta Houston SEA/PGH Over

Q NE/BUFF Over ATL/CHI Over Baltimore

Lines for Picks Week 17

Thursday

NY Jets at Cleveland -7 1/2 36

Saturday

Detroit at Dallas -6 1/2 53 1/2

Sunday

New England at Buffalo -12 40 1/2

Carolina at Jacksonville -6 1/2 37 1/2

New Orleans at Tampa -3 42 1/2

Atlanta at Chicago -3 39

Tennessee at Houston -3 1/2 42 1/2

Arizona at Philadelphia -10 1/2 47 1/2

San Fran -13 1/2 at Washington 48 1/2

Miami at Baltimore -3 47

LA Rams -6 1/2 at NY Giants 42

Las Vegas at Indy-3 44

Pittsburgh at Seattle -3 1/2 41 1/2

LA Chargers at Denver -5 1/2 38 1/2

Cincinnati at Kansas City -7 1/2 45 1/2

Green Bay at Minnesota -1 1/2 46

NO Monday Night Game

Overall Standings Week 16

180 Pts - NCLancer

149 Pts - NSX

Doc

144 Pts - CHuntsman

139 Pts - NJBF

132 Pts - P3P

131 Pts - imKirby

114 Pts - Chisag

107 Pts - QQQ

100 Pts - DMM

89 Pts - Touch

72 Pts - TripleLindy

imkirby34 · December 28, 2023

Week 17 Picks:

In retribution (purposely choosing wrong word) for last week's 0-3 on double-digit favorites, I'm going with the double-digit underdogs this week.

New England +12

Arizona +10 1/2

Washington +13 1/2

No Emeril gif this time.

doctoro · December 28, 2023

21 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Well, Jimmy the Greek ain't around anymore but I'll give it a (weak) shot. At one time, many years ago I read up extensively on gambling and "what the pros do".

Units - Units are simply a measurement of what the handicapper feels are better bets. Kind of like the "Morning Line" in horse racing. The morning line is the "odds" on each horse according to the "sheet" or a single person's opinion.

So 4-5 would be the favorite, 2nd choice 3-1, 3rd 5-1, etc. THese "odds" are NOT the odds at post time since the bettors create the odds by their bets (Parimutuel betting). The track takes out 17% and the odds on each horse are based on the percentage of money bet on each one of them by the bettors.

Units are the same thing. It's simply the (horse) handicapper's opinion, only for the handicapper you're talking about, weighted by "# of units" he'd bet. It's just that simple.

We have a PP "every 4 weeks" - so, up to 5 (weeks 1/5/9/13/17 or 2/6/10/14/18). i.e. If you didn't use your 1st PP until week 3, you'd only get 4 PPs.

A simple tactic of a professional racing bettor, as *I* have read about (long time ago), will analyze each race well before going to the track. He'll dope out HIS "MOA" (Minimum Odds Acceptable) for HIS favorite of each race, using past performances and current field and track conditions (among other things). And he'll write down HIS MOA for each horse he'd like to bet.

At race time, IF the odds on the horse he likes are better than HIS odds, he'll bet the horse. This is called an "overlay". A "value" if you will. If there's no overlay, he passes. A professional generally bets 2 or 3 races a day. He may go home some days not betting any races.

Another thing a horse racing professional (supposedly) never does is bet on bad horses. He prefers quality races with high-level horses, if for no other reason than they are far more consistent. It's easier to rely on past performance when the horses are more consistent. It's like craps at the casino. The odds of any single number that can come up are easily calculated.

It's kinda what you mentioned about wild cards in poker. Supposedly, a professional card player would NEVER play a card game with wild cards. WAY too unpredictable. And your hand can CHANGE from winner to loser with the flip of a single card that literally has no bearing on the other cards in one's hand. "No thanks" says the professional.

Our PP is an overlay all day. You're getting 2-1 odds, +20 vs. -10, on an even money bet. It's a bet a professional would ALWAYS take. If you flipped a coin ALL day on 2-1 odds, you would ALWAYS end up ahead. It would be an incredible fluke to come up behind with said coin flips.

ALL "single" football games are a 50/50 bet since ties are "no bet". So how do the books make money ? The "vig", or commission. Way back when, the only vig on a single straight bet was 10% on losing bets. You bet $100. You win you win $100, you lose and you lose $110.

Parlays seem to be very popular nowadays but the more teams one includes in a parlay the worse the actual payout.

e.g. 4 team parlay. 4 even money bets grouped together. The true odds are 15-1. The payout is generally ~12-1. That's a 20% worse return. One that's worse than almost ANY casino bet.

Yet non-professional gamblers seem to LOVE these bets; they LOVE fantasizing about a "huge" payout of $600, risking "only" $50. <-- I hear this ALL the time on local sports talk radio. You'd think these guys would know better, but no, they apparently don't.

Today, with analytics and computers, there are all sorts of different vig percentages. You can bet those different vigs favor the books (even more).

A coin flip is a 50/50 bet. If someone flipped a coin, say 4 times and it came up heads all 4 times, and you asked someone what the odds were on the 5th flip, they'd often say something like 5-1, or some such "calculation".

Which, of course, is wrong, as each individual flip is 50/50. The coin has no memory. And the question wasn't "What are the odds of 5 heads in a row ?". The question was "What are the odds on this one flip ?".

Anywho, Vegas was built, and self-sustains, on the relative ignorance of bettors and the desire for "action". Casual bettors ignore this at their peril.

Oh, and please pay NO attention to THIS guy

Thank you. I often wondered how people can make a living handicapping anything, especially horseracing. That takes discipline and I fear I do not qualify when it comes to that. Maybe as I have gotten older I can say that I do not get as impulse-driven as much as I used to. I rarely bet parlays unless it is just for fun. Never more than 5 dollars Like a lottery ticket. But with somewhat worse payouts. LOL

Double Mocha Man · December 28, 2023

22 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Well, Jimmy the Greek ain't around anymore but I'll give it a (weak) shot. At one time, many years ago I read up extensively on gambling and "what the pros do".

Units - Units are simply a measurement of what the handicapper feels are better bets. Kind of like the "Morning Line" in horse racing. The morning line is the "odds" on each horse according to the "sheet" or a single person's opinion.

So 4-5 would be the favorite, 2nd choice 3-1, 3rd 5-1, etc. THese "odds" are NOT the odds at post time since the bettors create the odds by their bets (Parimutuel betting). The track takes out 17% and the odds on each horse are based on the percentage of money bet on each one of them by the bettors.

Units are the same thing. It's simply the (horse) handicapper's opinion, only for the handicapper you're talking about, weighted by "# of units" he'd bet. It's just that simple.

We have a PP "every 4 weeks" - so, up to 5 (weeks 1/5/9/13/17 or 2/6/10/14/18). i.e. If you didn't use your 1st PP until week 3, you'd only get 4 PPs.

A simple tactic of a professional racing bettor, as *I* have read about (long time ago), will analyze each race well before going to the track. He'll dope out HIS "MOA" (Minimum Odds Acceptable) for HIS favorite of each race, using past performances and current field and track conditions (among other things). And he'll write down HIS MOA for each horse he'd like to bet.

At race time, IF the odds on the horse he likes are better than HIS odds, he'll bet the horse. This is called an "overlay". A "value" if you will. If there's no overlay, he passes. A professional generally bets 2 or 3 races a day. He may go home some days not betting any races.

Another thing a horse racing professional (supposedly) never does is bet on bad horses. He prefers quality races with high-level horses, if for no other reason than they are far more consistent. It's easier to rely on past performance when the horses are more consistent. It's like craps at the casino. The odds of any single number that can come up are easily calculated.

It's kinda what you mentioned about wild cards in poker. Supposedly, a professional card player would NEVER play a card game with wild cards. WAY too unpredictable. And your hand can CHANGE from winner to loser with the flip of a single card that literally has no bearing on the other cards in one's hand. "No thanks" says the professional.

Our PP is an overlay all day. You're getting 2-1 odds, +20 vs. -10, on an even money bet. It's a bet a professional would ALWAYS take. If you flipped a coin ALL day on 2-1 odds, you would ALWAYS end up ahead. It would be an incredible fluke to come up behind with said coin flips.

ALL "single" football games are a 50/50 bet since ties are "no bet". So how do the books make money ? The "vig", or commission. Way back when, the only vig on a single straight bet was 10% on losing bets. You bet $100. You win you win $100, you lose and you lose $110.

Parlays seem to be very popular nowadays but the more teams one includes in a parlay the worse the actual payout.

e.g. 4 team parlay. 4 even money bets grouped together. The true odds are 15-1. The payout is generally ~12-1. That's a 20% worse return. One that's worse than almost ANY casino bet.

Yet non-professional gamblers seem to LOVE these bets; they LOVE fantasizing about a "huge" payout of $600, risking "only" $50. <-- I hear this ALL the time on local sports talk radio. You'd think these guys would know better, but no, they apparently don't.

Today, with analytics and computers, there are all sorts of different vig percentages. You can bet those different vigs favor the books (even more).

A coin flip is a 50/50 bet. If someone flipped a coin, say 4 times and it came up heads all 4 times, and you asked someone what the odds were on the 5th flip, they'd often say something like 5-1, or some such "calculation".

Which, of course, is wrong, as each individual flip is 50/50. The coin has no memory. And the question wasn't "What are the odds of 5 heads in a row ?". The question was "What are the odds on this one flip ?".

Anywho, Vegas was built, and self-sustains, on the relative ignorance of bettors and the desire for "action". Casual bettors ignore this at their peril.

Oh, and please pay NO attention to THIS guy

Back when I was a teenager sneaking into the racetrack the first thing I did was go to the library and check out a book on how to wager on racehorses. I adopted the overlay system except that I didn't handicap the horses myself, I left that up to the experts at Morning Line. Then I would stand in line at the betting window watching the tote board until the last few seconds before the race began. That horse that Morning Line had at 2-1 was still a 2-1 horse at post time, even though the unwashed crowd had bet on other horses with pretty jockey silks colors. Now my 2-1 was sitting at 4-1. That's where I placed my bet.

nsxguy · December 28, 2023

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Back when I was a teenager sneaking into the racetrack the first thing I did was go to the library and check out a book on how to wager on racehorses. I adopted the overlay system except that I didn't handicap the horses myself, I left that up to the experts at Morning Line. Then I would stand in line at the betting window watching the tote board until the last few seconds before the race began. That horse that Morning Line had at 2-1 was still a 2-1 horse at post time, even though the unwashed crowd had bet on other horses with pretty jockey silks colors. Now my 2-1 was sitting at 4-1. That's where I placed my bet.

I guess that's a reasonable way to do it, especially if you weren't comfortable with your own rankings of the horses in a race, and you're a casual bettor.

And the guy who made those morning lines is probably about as professional as the professional gambler. In fact, he's probably one of them.

The only difference though is that the professional would never bet every race and would occasionally go home without placing so much as a single bet.

That is discipline.

May I ask how you decided which races to actually bet on ? ALL "overlays" ? Just the higher-class horses ? Longshots ?

Double Mocha Man · December 28, 2023

2 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

I guess that's a reasonable way to do it, especially if you weren't comfortable with your own rankings of the horses in a race, and you're a casual bettor.

And the guy who made those morning lines is probably about as professional as the professional gambler. In fact, he's probably one of them.

The only difference though is that the professional would never bet every race and would occasionally go home without placing so much as a single bet.

That is discipline.

May I ask how you decided which races to actually bet on ? ALL "overlays" ? Just the higher-class horses ? Longshots ?

Never long shots. I only bet on races where the overlay was in my favor. So out of a race card of perhaps 10 races I only bet on maybe 5. I rarely went down to the paddock to see the horses so I had no idea as to quality, hell, I could have been betting on the old gray mare. Once, just after placing my bet and getting my ticket, security nabbed me and threw me and my buddy out of the racetrack. And took away my ticket. Standing outside in the parking lot listening to the loud speaker I had to suffer winning no money when my horse finished first!

nsxguy · December 28, 2023

13 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Never long shots. I only bet on races where the overlay was in my favor. So out of a race card of perhaps 10 races I only bet on maybe 5. I rarely went down to the paddock to see the horses so I had no idea as to quality, hell, I could have been betting on the old gray mare. Once, just after placing my bet and getting my ticket, security nabbed me and threw me and my buddy out of the racetrack. And took away my ticket. Standing outside in the parking lot listening to the loud speaker I had to suffer winning no money when my horse finished first!

Welllllll,,,,,,,, longshots CAN be overlays. You, or your morning line creator, can have a horse at 20-1 and at post time it's 75-1. That is an overlay.

And it should be noted that the morning line is just a relative view of each horse in a race, not necessarily the guy's best guess as to what the actual line will be.

Kind of like doc's "units" guy. That's a sharp giving you HIS judgment of better and worse bets - of those bets he'd make in the first place.

i.e. he'd bet 4 "units" on Denver, but 10 units on Miami, and 15 units on the Cowboys. Just a relative ranking of his bets. Same thing with the morning line guy giving odds on every race.

But ya can't leave us hanging on the bolded part - or was it just because you were too young to be there ?

doctoro · December 28, 2023

On 12/26/2023 at 1:42 PM, Qqq123xx said:

Remember for the two Championship games to do your 15 point spread for each game. Like 40-55 etc. You get one point for each team total that is within said spread. Since this is bonus no loses are tallied.

COLLEGE BOWL SCHEDULE

SMU -10 / B.C. 49.5

RUTGERS -1 / MIAMI 40.5

N.C. ST. / KSU -2.5 47.5

ARIZONA -3 / OKLA. 60.5

CLEMSON -4 / KENTUCKY 46.5

ORE. ST. / N.D. -6 41.5

MEMPHIS / IOWA ST. -10 57.5

MISSOURI / OSU -1 49.5

OLE MISS. / PSU -3.5 48.5

AUBURN -7 / MARYLAND 46.5

GA. -16.5 / FSU 44.5 Gee think selection goofs want GA. 77-3.

TOLEDO / WYOMING -3.5 44.5

WISC. / LSU -10 55.5

LIBERTY / OREGON -17 67.5

IOWA / TENN. -8.5 36.5

BAMA / MICH. -2 44.5

TEXAS -4.5 / WASH. 63.5

The parlay from Hell But here goes...swing batter

BC +10

Rutgers -1

KSU -2.5

AZ+3

Clemson-4

ND-6

Memphis+10

Missouri+1

Ole Miss+3.5

Auburn +7

FSU +16.5

Wyoming-3.5

LSU-10

Liberty+17

Iowa +8.5

Michigan -2

Washington +4.5

Mich/Bama. 41 -56

Texas/Wash 54 -69

OMG that was work LOL

chisag · December 28, 2023

Yea QB picks for week 17:

Chicago -3 Yea, homer pick and in spite of Fields the defense has been on fire

Tampa -3 Yea, I'm jumping' on the Baker Bandwagon

LA Rams -6 1/2 Yea, Stafford seems to have found his stride

Double Mocha Man · December 28, 2023

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Welllllll,,,,,,,, longshots CAN be overlays. You, or your morning line creator, can have a horse at 20-1 and at post time it's 75-1.

Indeed, they can. But they're still 20-1. Although I'll admit, they sometimes do win. Such as the Kentucky Derby a few years ago.

Double Mocha Man · December 28, 2023

3 hours ago, nsxguy said:

And it should be noted that the morning line is just a relative view of each horse in a race, not necessarily the guy's best guess as to what the actual line will be.

The Morning Line guy or one of the others putting out a daily sheet still know more about the horses than I do. They know their record, the condition of the track they like to run, their jockey's prowess, their trainer, their current health condition, the field they're competing against, etc. More than I want to research. I'll take their advice over mine.

As to the reason I was kicked out... I was underage. And looked like it. Surprised they ever let me in.

The first time I went to the track with a saved up $12 in my pocket I won $165. Beat the hell outta my allowance at the time. 😁

Triple Lindy · December 28, 2023

Week 16 picks:

Rams -6.5 over NYG

Tampa -3 over Nawlins

Lions +6.5 over Dallas

NCLancer · December 28, 2023

7 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Back when I was a teenager sneaking into the racetrack the first thing I did was go to the library and check out a book on how to wager on racehorses. I adopted the overlay system except that I didn't handicap the horses myself, I left that up to the experts at Morning Line. Then I would stand in line at the betting window watching the tote board until the last few seconds before the race began. That horse that Morning Line had at 2-1 was still a 2-1 horse at post time, even though the unwashed crowd had bet on other horses with pretty jockey silks colors. Now my 2-1 was sitting at 4-1. That's where I placed my bet.

Your racetrack had a library?? (j/k)😉

doctoro · December 28, 2023

6 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Welllllll,,,,,,,, longshots CAN be overlays. You, or your morning line creator, can have a horse at 20-1 and at post time it's 75-1. That is an overlay.

And it should be noted that the morning line is just a relative view of each horse in a race, not necessarily the guy's best guess as to what the actual line will be.

Kind of like doc's "units" guy. That's a sharp giving you HIS judgment of better and worse bets - of those bets he'd make in the first place.

i.e. he'd bet 4 "units" on Denver, but 10 units on Miami, and 15 units on the Cowboys. Just a relative ranking of his bets. Same thing with the morning line guy giving odds on every race.

But ya can't leave us hanging on the bolded part - or was it just because you were too young to be there ?

I think professional sports betters will apply units when they are selling their services to subscribers, which is a weighted system that allows the better to know how much conviction he has in that particular pick. Let's say a unit is 100 dollars, then 4 units would be 400 dollars

If you apply that mentality to the PP then it's not a jagged pill to swallow. It says the games that you feel good about are worth a bigger wager because it checks off a lot of boxes, line movement, sharps vs joes, stat geeks usually find at least two favorable scenario odds matchups, injuries, and roster changes, that affect line movement, etc.

If I see a game that really seems inflated or undervalued according to the line, rarely what the team did the week prior I will make that a PP

This week seems a little tough.

Some QB issues as always, with teams traveling across the country, and recency bias may have inflated some of the lines and Vegas might have caught up to that by now.

touch · December 29, 2023

Thursday

NY Jets at Cleveland -7 1/2 36

I will make my first pick this week the Under in tonight's game from Cleveland.

NJBigFish22 · December 29, 2023

NFL Picks

I don’t really like any of these games, but since I’m required to pick 3 here goes

Tampa -3

Houston -3 1/2

New England +12

NJBigFish22 · December 29, 2023

33 minutes ago, touch said:

Thursday

NY Jets at Cleveland -7 1/2 36

I will make my first pick this week the Under in tonight's game from Cleveland.

Since I get to actually watch this game, I couldn’t bring myself to make a pick. Don’t need J-E-T-S related stress!

touch · December 29, 2023

Our Picks Week 17

P3P Atlanta Houston SEA/PGH Over

Q NE/BUFF Over ATL/CHI Over Baltimore

chisag Chicago LA Rams Tampa

TL Detroit LA Rams Tampa

LP NYJ/CLE Under tba tba

NJBF Tampa New England Houston

Edited December 29, 2023 by touch

NCLancer · December 29, 2023

WEEK 17 PICKS:

DET/DALLAS OVER 53 1/2

SEATTLE -3 1/2

GREEN BAY +1 1/2

chisag · December 29, 2023

3 hours ago, touch said:

Thursday

NY Jets at Cleveland -7 1/2 36

I will make my first pick this week the Under in tonight's game from Cleveland.

... 51 points in the first half. 😱 At least you won't be on Bad Beats.

touch · December 29, 2023

9 hours ago, chisag said:

... 51 points in the first half. 😱 At least you won't be on Bad Beats.

20 points scored in the 1st quarter was the most for the Browns in like over 6 years. Joe Flacco does it again and this time without his #1 receiver. I turned it off at halftime. I never had a chance with the Under. Right there is an example why I am near the bottom of the standings. You had two of the best defenses in the NFL playing on a short week. The total line went from our 36 to 33 around kickoff, but instead of being a low scoring contest they nearly doubled the Total.

Edited December 29, 2023 by touch

touch · December 29, 2023

Let me mention something regarding sports betting since a of a few of you were discussing that topic yesterday. In the 10 years I lived in Vegas I played golf with a few professional gamblers. Guys who were retired who would spend quite a few full days each week in the Sports Books. Now some of them did play the ponies but for the most part they concentrated on two sports. They would tell me that the best success one could have in sports betting was to concentrate on only MLB and College Basketball. They all said that football, be it college or pro, was a sport that they intentionally stayed away from.

touch · December 29, 2023

* Announcement

After I get off work today I will be posting all the info including the rules for our separate NFL Playoffs Contest that will be starting on the 9th of January.

The first playoff games will start on Wild Card weekend and that begins on Saturday Jan. 13.

Edited December 29, 2023 by touch

touch · December 29, 2023

Our Picks Week 17

P3P Atlanta Houston SEA/PGH Over

Q NE/BUFF Over ATL/CHI Over Baltimore

chisag Chicago LA Rams Tampa

TL Detroit LA Rams Tampa

LP NYJ/CLE Under tba tba

NJBF Tampa New England Houston

NCL DET/DAL Over Seattle Green Bay

touch · December 29, 2023

11 hours ago, NCLancer said:

WEEK 17 PICKS:

DET/DALLAS OVER 53 1/2

SEATTLE -3 1/2

GREEN BAY +1 1/2

Our leader elects to not use a PP in week 17. 😃

NCLancer · December 29, 2023

54 minutes ago, touch said:

Our leader elects to not use a PP in week 17. 😃

NO MINUS POINTS FOR ME....

Triple Lindy · December 29, 2023

14 hours ago, doctoro said:

I think professional sports betters will apply units when they are selling their services to subscribers, which is a weighted system that allows the better to know how much conviction he has in that particular pick. Let's say a unit is 100 dollars, then 4 units would be 400 dollars

If you apply that mentality to the PP then it's not a jagged pill to swallow. It says the games that you feel good about are worth a bigger wager because it checks off a lot of boxes, line movement, sharps vs joes, stat geeks usually find at least two favorable scenario odds matchups, injuries, and roster changes, that affect line movement, etc.

If I see a game that really seems inflated or undervalued according to the line, rarely what the team did the week prior I will make that a PP

This week seems a little tough.

Some QB issues as always, with teams traveling across the country, and recency bias may have inflated some of the lines and Vegas might have caught up to that by now.

Man, no wonder I’m at the bottom of the standings. You guys put WAY more thought into your picks than I can imagine! But I love the jagged pill reference!

touch · December 29, 2023

Joe Flacco is on a mission and it's a great story for Browns fans.

How do you like it @CHuntsman ?

Edited December 29, 2023 by touch

nsxguy · December 29, 2023

3 hours ago, touch said:

Let me mention something regarding sports betting since a of a few of you were discussing that topic yesterday. In the 10 years I lived in Vegas I played golf with a few professional gamblers. Guys who were retired who would spend quite a few full days each week in the Sports Books. Now some of them did play the ponies but for the most part they concentrated on two sports. They would tell me that the best success one could have in sports betting was to concentrate on only MLB and College Basketball. They all said that football, be it college or pro, was a sport that they intentionally stayed away from.

You play golf ?

My understanding is most professional gamblers have their favorite sports. I expect horse racing to be one of them because one can find an open track year-round.

I've always found college basketball and especially football to often be "easier" to pick because you get to learn the teams that will have no qualms about running up the score against an inferior opponent.

For impressing the pollsters (back when), and now the selection committee, score and score differential, matters. Similar, if not exactly the same due to a 64-team playoff, with college basketball.

One time, MANY years ago, I had a 4-team college football parlay going. 1st 3 teams won and the 4th team, Notre Dame, was up 28-0 at halftime as a 14 pt UNDERDOG to USC, when I had to go out somewhere. Up 42 points at halftime !!!

So I'm "counting my money"......... You KNOW what's coming, right ? I got home later that night to find out USC outscored ND 56-0 in the 2nd half.

Edited December 29, 2023 by nsxguy

chisag · December 29, 2023

4 hours ago, touch said:

20 points scored in the 1st quarter was the most for the Browns in like over 6 years. Joe Flacco does it again and this time without his #1 receiver. I turned it off at halftime. I never had a chance with the Under. Right there is an example why I am near the bottom of the standings. You had two of the best defenses in the NFL playing on a short week. The total line went from our 36 to 33 around kickoff, but instead of being a low scoring contest they nearly doubled the Total.

... I tip my cap to those of you bold enough to take the Over/Under. 👍👍 I have always felt a superior team will find a way to win and overcome bad breaks. It doesn't always happen with the spread of course but I usually have hope right up to the end. A freak pass bouncing off a WR and right to a DB for a pick 6 may not effect win/loss but they can wreak the O/U. And I watch Bad Beats every week and it is almost always the O/U that are the heart breakers. 🤪

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