Hitting balls from a downslope a learning tool?

[kowalgolf]

Practice hitting balls on a downslope. Is this good practice? I think it would help rear hip swayers, help keep front hip at bay, help rolling wrists on takeaway, help with recentering, help with extension in BS and flexion in DS. It gives me a better visual for my minds eye to start the BS. Just curious are there more advantages that may help a beginner?

[naj959]

It's helped me with re-centering. Pitching green at one of the courses I play has a downhill area. I started hitting it really crisply off that lie. Kind of a happy accident. 

[tthomasgolfer605]

Ball above the feet would be better for a beginner. 

[Pepperturbo]

1 hour ago, kowalgolf said:

Practice hitting balls on a downslope. Is this good practice? I think it would help rear hip swayers, help keep front hip at bay, help rolling wrists on takeaway, help with recentering, help with extension in BS and flexion in DS. It gives me a better visual for my minds eye to start the BS. Just curious are there more advantages that may help a beginner?

I'm not sure regular practice on downhill lie would accomplish what you're suggesting.  That's not to say, practicing on various lies wouldn't help.  It's good practice, but I would just pick courses that have plenty of uneven lies.  That way your brain gets conditioned, which is what really needs the practice.  Regardless of lie, hitting the ball is about confidence.

 

I seldom practice.  However, last Sunday I played a course with lots of elevation changes and uneven lies.  On one hole I hit a brute of a drive, and found my ball in deep down slope rough between two left side bunkers, with a 150 to the pin.  I been playing for over 30yrs, the extreme position where that ball was is NOT something I would practice.  All I did was take a few practice swings to feel the nature of the downhill rough and need to get the ball up to cover yardage.  Then addressed the ball with 7i in hand, and took one helluva whack at the ball, it came out nicely landed short of the green, and I almost feel over.  If I had, it was steep enough I would have rolled some.  Anyway, I got up and down to save par.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[kowalgolf]

53 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Ball above the feet would be better for a beginner. 

I'm always trying to improve and learn. Can you give me your thoughts?

[tthomasgolfer605]

22 minutes ago, kowalgolf said:

I'm always trying to improve and learn. Can you give me your thoughts?

Most beginners come over the top at first. A ball above your feet will teach a more rounded or shallower swing. 

[TwistedSister]

Best way to hit off a down slope is to set your shoulders parallel to the slope and swing down the slope.  same way to do it from an up slope.

[ShawLF]

1 hour ago, TwistedSister said:

Best way to hit off a down slope is to set your shoulders parallel to the slope and swing down the slope. 

agreed, plus take a divot. Don't try to pick it clean. You can also put the ball slightly back in the stance to promote ball first contact.

 

I practice uneven lies because that's what you'll encounter on the course. Not sure about doing this to help with some other swing pattern.

 

The closest I come to intentionally giving myself an uneven lie on the course would be to tee up on a slope to promote a left or right ball path. For example, if I absolutely must hit a draw I'll tee up on a spot where the ball is slightly higher than my feet if possible.

[TwistedSister]

36 minutes ago, ShawLF said:

agreed, plus take a divot. Don't try to pick it clean. You can also put the ball slightly back in the stance to promote ball first contact.

 

I practice uneven lies because that's what you'll encounter on the course. Not sure about doing this to help with some other swing pattern.

 

The closest I come to intentionally giving myself an uneven lie on the course would be to tee up on a slope to promote a left or right ball path. For example, if I absolutely must hit a draw I'll tee up on a spot where the ball is slightly higher than my feet if possible.

Not really necessary to take a divot.  If you swing along the down slope with your shoulders parallel to the slope that will promote ball contact first.  If one tries to take a divot they will be more apt to hit the slope first! On an up slope swing the same is likely to happen. One should swing a long the slope.  Just take the extra or shorter club as the case may be.

[ShawLF]

57 minutes ago, TwistedSister said:

Not really necessary to take a divot. 

perhaps not necessary, but on a downhill lie all things being equal you're going to deliver lower dynamic loft and you run the risk of hitting it thin if you try to pick it, and even a well hit shot will launch low with low spin.

 

On my home course there are a few approach shots on downhill lies into elevated greens. In this case I don't know anyone that doesn't take a divot because you need to get the ball in the air and generate spin. I played a round with Andrew Rice and he instructed me to take divots on these shots.

 

A couple examples of people demonstrating this:

 

Here the instructor is specifically telling the student to take a divot to verify his set up and swing are correct:

 

He hits two shots, both with divots.

 

He hits three shots, the first with no divot and it is thin. The next two with a divot and they are better.

 

 

 

[TwistedSister]

10 hours ago, ShawLF said:

perhaps not necessary, but on a downhill lie all things being equal you're going to deliver lower dynamic loft and you run the risk of hitting it thin if you try to pick it, and even a well hit shot will launch low with low spin.

 

On my home course there are a few approach shots on downhill lies into elevated greens. In this case I don't know anyone that doesn't take a divot because you need to get the ball in the air and generate spin. I played a round with Andrew Rice and he instructed me to take divots on these shots.

 

A couple examples of people demonstrating this:

 

Here the instructor is specifically telling the student to take a divot to verify his set up and swing are correct:

 

He hits two shots, both with divots.

 

He hits three shots, the first with no divot and it is thin. The next two with a divot and they are better.

 

 

 

If one matches the slope with shoulders then if one tries to take a divot it most likely sets up a fat shot. The top picture is incorrect as the players does not have his shoulders parallel to the slope.

[GoGoErky]

32 minutes ago, TwistedSister said:

If one matches the slope with shoulders then if one tries to take a divot it most likely sets up a fat shot. The top picture is incorrect as the players does not have his shoulders parallel to the slope.

Did you watch the video or just comment on the photo which is nothing more than a moment in time of where the video was when posted 

[ShawLF]

@TwistedSister This is a video I took of Austin Greaser with a 60* wedge, short sided on a slight downhill lie into an elevated green in the finals of the Western Am last year (He won). This might be the hardest shot in golf. Notice the divot... and he still wasn't able to hold the green. If you pick that ball chances are it rolls up the face and you get no spin or launch and it'll be 80 yards over the green.

 

He is a Western Am winner, qualified for the Masters and US Open, and is currently the 4th ranked am in the world. If hitting it thin was better, he'd do that.

 

 

 

 

 

[TwistedSister]

1 hour ago, ShawLF said:

@TwistedSister This is a video I took of Austin Greaser with a 60* wedge, short sided on a slight downhill lie into an elevated green in the finals of the Western Am last year (He won). This might be the hardest shot in golf. Notice the divot... and he still wasn't able to hold the green. If you pick that ball chances are it rolls up the face and you get no spin or launch and it'll be 80 yards over the green.

 

He is a Western Am winner, qualified for the Masters and US Open, and is currently the 4th ranked am in the world. If hitting it thin was better, he'd do that.

 

 

 

 

 

I did not say to hit it thin!  I said not to try to take a divot.  Just swing normally.

[TwistedSister]

You guys do it however you want.  I've been playing over 50 years and the method I described has worked quite well for me!

[ShawLF]

20 hours ago, TwistedSister said:

I did not say to hit it thin!  I said not to try to take a divot.  Just swing normally.

@TwistedSister yeah, bad choice of words on my part. Didn't mean to suggest that you were advocating for hitting it thin. Sorry about that. Text isn't the best way to communicate complex athletic motions. If we were together in person on a short game practice facility the conversation would be far more productive. 

 

This is my third year playing golf (improved a lot, low score is 73 on a 7300 course rated 76). The first two years I couldn't hold a green on a downhill lie from inside 50 yds. In April I was practicing in the short course area of my club and professional golfer (who recently placed 7th in the state PGA professional championship) came over and gave a master class on hitting various 25 yd shots.

 

All of these are with 56* wedges on a flat lie into a slightly elevated green.

 

Here's the shot that stood out most to me. This shot launched 49.5*, spun 6536, peaked at 26'8" height, carried 25.8 yds, landed at 55.4*, and rolled out to 26.1 yds - rolled out a mere 1 foot - amazing. 

 

Here's my highest spin shot from the same distance which launched 28.1*, spun 5123, peaked at 14'3", carried 31.3 yds, landed at 33.2*, and rolled out to 39.1 yds - 23 feet of roll out.

 

Both of these shots have value. But I simply couldn't make a shot that performed anything like the pro's - because my swing mechanics were the complete opposite to his. He swung over the plane which promotes a steep AoA and a forward low point (forces you to take a divot), and I was swinging under the plane which promotes a shallow AoA and a backward low point (best not to take a divot).

 

Here's what that looks like graphically. These aren't the exact same shots (because I didn't have the Trackman camera on until we started making 80 yd shots) but the swing direction, path and face follow the same pattern. BTW: white = target line, red = face, blue = path, orange = ball flight

 

Here's what the pro's swing dynamics look like. Swing direction is way out to the left with an open face, and taking a legit divot. Note: in the 25yd shot shown above the face was actually way to the right of the target line, but again I didn't capture the video so I don't have a visual of it unfortunately, but this one comes pretty close otherwise except that in the 25 yd shot he more "bruised" the turf than take this much divot.

 

Here's mine. The exact opposite, path to right and a closed face, nowhere near the same level of turf interaction. This shot will stop from 80 yds out, but it rolls out big time from inside 40 yds. That's fine if you're trying to roll out to a back pin... but for me when I am closer to the pin, and especially on a downslope, I'm now making the shot the pro demonstrated.

 

 

Connecting this back to the original question about practicing on downhill lies - yeah I can see that as beneficial if you want to master this shot and make it difficult for yourself. Similarly, practicing on the down slope of a bunker is a much harder shot, and if you can do that you're good anywhere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2023 by ShawLF
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