Applying modern conditioning to extreme throwback greens

[CDM]

19 hours ago, TexasTurf said:

Sub Air doesn't actually help that much, and does relatively nothing to control temperature. You just played on some good greens.

interesting

 

SubAir Systems provides aeration, moisture removal and root zone temperature control in order to create an optimal subsurface growing environment for deep-rooted, resilient, healthy green grass.

[TexasTurf]

4 hours ago, CDM said:

interesting

 

SubAir Systems provides aeration, moisture removal and root zone temperature control in order to create an optimal subsurface growing environment for deep-rooted, resilient, healthy green grass.

The SubAir guys are top notch salesmen. And many of their products, especially their fans and hydronics are the best in the business. But my personal experience with the sub-air is that at our location, doesn't significantly affect soil temperatures. It can only draw in the ambient air. So in the summer, when we need it most, it actually draws in hot air, increasing the soil temperature, which is worse than not using it at all. 

[mallrat]

I have never worked with and most likely will never work with a SubAir system but from my understanding they are more for controlling moisture than temperature. Or more specifically drying greens out than adding moisture in. I believe they also control or add some airflow to help keep humidity down hence relieving some (or a lot) of the disease pressure. 
 

Aren’t they basically a giant vacuum system using existing drainage? 

[smashdn]

GD article said that there were no notes left by Raynor and that the drawings did not have detailed information regarding the internal contouring of the greens.  With that in mind I have to think some level of artistic liberty was taken with those contours.  And with that in mind, I can only see one of two options regarding the contours in relation to the green speeds; either the architects are poor at their profession and have created contours not suited to the speeds that the super plans to have them rolling, or, as someone else alluded to, the "newness" of the greens coupled with the variety of turfgrass will "mellow" in time.  I know from personal experience a newly built bermuda green with next to no thatch is incredibly firm and doesn't receive and hold a ball as most of us are accustomed to.

 

Hopefully they can arrive at a combination of firmness and speed that accentuates the slopes and internal contours and doesn't result in greens that are loathe to play.

[me05501]

4 hours ago, smashdn said:

GD article said that there were no notes left by Raynor and that the drawings did not have detailed information regarding the internal contouring of the greens.  With that in mind I have to think some level of artistic liberty was taken with those contours.  And with that in mind, I can only see one of two options regarding the contours in relation to the green speeds; either the architects are poor at their profession and have created contours not suited to the speeds that the super plans to have them rolling, or, as someone else alluded to, the "newness" of the greens coupled with the variety of turfgrass will "mellow" in time.  I know from personal experience a newly built bermuda green with next to no thatch is incredibly firm and doesn't receive and hold a ball as most of us are accustomed to.

 

Hopefully they can arrive at a combination of firmness and speed that accentuates the slopes and internal contours and doesn't result in greens that are loathe to play.

 

 

I think you're right. I think the greens will become more playable over time. Members will learn how to attack each hole depending on pin locations. I'm sure they'll gain a lot of satisfaction as they gradually "unlock" the course. 

[ChipNRun]

 

On 10/3/2023 at 4:01 PM, hollabachgt said:

Could this just be a situation where new Bermuda greens are both very firm and typically kept very fast until they mature?
Its not uncommon for new greens to be crazy hard until they get a full year of grow in and begin to become more playable.

On 10/3/2023 at 2:22 PM, ChipNRun said:

At the end of the article, the owners were trying to decide whether to replant the old turf grass - which had a lot more body - or reduce contouring on half the greens so they would hold shots. (Sorry, I never did find out their solution.)

 

Seems like they were past the full year of grow-in, since they were thinking of possibly redo-ing the conturing as an option.

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by ChipNRun
Fix typo.