Common Comments

[Weston003]

Great ball striker, horrible putter...

something to the effect of:

Oh, I hit the ball great. I hit 13 - 14 greens a round on average. But I can't putt or chip to save my life. That is why I am a 15 handicap.

I seem to see these types comments more than most. When someone decides to talk about their game and explain why their handicap is so high but argue why they play blades or players clubs.

I don't mean to harp on anyone, but if you have enough feel and consistency to control a full swing and hit 72% of your greens in regulation, you should easily have the skills by your innate talent to hit more consistent chips and putts. To hit 72% (13/18) or even 66% (12/18) more in GIR is very impressive. From all of the golfers I have met, those that hit as many as 12 or more greens have a great short game, not the greatest, but better than most. the people I have met that average 8 greens a round, well, their scores reflect it.

It could be psychological: like yips or something, but seriously...

ANY ONE AGREE WITH ME?

[arrowcreek900]

There's nothing to agree with. It is that person's game. Everybody has a different style and game

[hbear]

And in the end does it really matter what somebody else posts about "thier" game....

even if logic defies what they are saying?

:)

 

We are on the "internet" you know!

[Konrad]

Well I hit 64% GIR, average 30.11 putts and have a average score of 74.22. There is simply no way that a 15 handicap is hitting 75% of the greens. That's more than Tiger hits every round! I have never in my life seen anybody hit 13 or 14 greens and not break 80 every single time they go out, unless they had a 10 on some hole.... :)

[Bomb and Gouge]

When you go to the driving range, you'll see it's full of people working on their full swings. Look over at the practice green and chipping area....there are usually fewer than three people there.

 

As Alan Iverson said, ........

[jamesduncan]

wow those stats are hard to digest

 

was that your average GIRs for all of last season?

 

Im a 2 handicap, consider myself a bad butter (29-34 range) and am "loose" from 100 yards and in. Some periods I only average about 10 GIR but I still can get it in around my handicap if my putter gets hot...and tracking software says my short game handicap is double my reg handicap

 

im trying to figure it out, but you're basically saying that you average around +40 puts per round..no?

 

i know im not answering your question/post, but are you counting fringes in your GIR stats? And how many holes do you have per round that score more than quad bogey??

[Bomb and Gouge]

They're not his stats. It's a hypothetical...

[dcfas]

I saw a formula a couple years back in GD. I cannot remember it exactly but the idea was that there was a graphical correlation from GIR to score (duh). So, if you hit more than 14 greens in reg, e.g., you would be in the 72-76 range. If you hit 10-12 greens, you would be in the 76-82 range, and so on. I don't have the numbers right on, but that was the gist.

 

I'm a candidate for ruining a round due to putting and chipping on any given day. However, to be honest when I'm playing well that means my short game is well. If my driver is whacked and my putter broke-- forget it. In that case I focus on what I'm going to have for dinner.

 

d

[frozen_rope]

something to the effect of:

 

Oh, I hit the ball great. I hit 13 - 14 greens a round on average. But I can't putt or chip to save my life. That is why I am a 15 handicap.

 

I seem to see these types comments more than most. When someone decides to talk about their game and explain why their handicap is so high but argue why they play blades or players clubs.

 

I don't mean to harp on anyone, but if you have enough feel and consistency to control a full swing and hit 72% of your greens in regulation, you should easily have the skills by your innate talent to hit more consistent chips and putts. To hit 72% (13/18) or even 66% (12/18) more in GIR is very impressive. From all of the golfers I have met, those that hit as many as 12 or more greens have a great short game, not the greatest, but better than most. the people I have met that average 8 greens a round, well, their scores reflect it.

 

It could be psychological: like yips or something, but seriously...

 

ANY ONE AGREE WITH ME?

 

I disagree.

Playing full shots is relatively easy.

There are thousands of people who can consistently stripe long straight drives, stick 5 irons shots to the hole etc...

However there are very few players who can consistently shoot par or better scores.

The reason is that nerves come into play with greenside short game shots and putting. These are touch shots, much more difficult than full swing shots.

 

All that said, a respectable ball striker with a horrible short game will still average scores between 77 and 82.

[hbear]

The equation is.

95 - (2xGIR) = prdicted score.

 

So if you hit 10 GIR, you predicted score would be 75.

 

I find it works pretty well (until you start using 12+ GIRs) then the equation slope gets wonky.

I know I've had round where my 17 GIR did not lead to a 61....68 sure, but not 61!

:)

 

To add:

If a guy is putting close to 40/round he IS NOT a good ball striker.

I don't care how bad a guy is at putting, if he's sticking his ball somewhere even close to the hole, he's not 3 jacking everything!

[JoeF]

in the example given he said he hit 13-14 greens. He didn't say his ball stayed on the green :)

[Nachosgrande]

Not that crazy. I once hit 17 greens including two par fives in two and still shot 73. The sad thing is my short game is better than my long game. I really hated that day.

Also, look at Dave Pelz. Apparently he could hit every green in regulation as a young man and still couldn't break par.

[Tanner25]

Try chipping with your hybrid

[thenewbie]

I've heard that if Jack Ham could 3-putt he'd make a million 8 on tour.

 

:)

 

I'd agree with you that people don't always diagnose the problems in their own game correctly, I'd disagree with you if you think that you can diagnose someone whom you've never met's game better than they can.

 

ntm, some people are really, REALLY bad at putting. personally, my GIR's are unbelievably bad, I think in my last round i hit maybe 3 GIR and still scored in the low 80's, but I spend a lot of time around the chipping green.

[thenewbie]

Try chipping with your hybrid

 

whaaa. . .?

 

I think someone doesn't get it.

[snab4]

I'm one of those you speak of. I've missed more putts from 18-24 inches than you would think is possible. Prime example of a round 2 years ago at Jack's course called the Bear in Michigan I went 58 / 37 and the guy we played with said I have bi-polar putting skills. He'd never seen anything like it. 3/4/5 putts (not one par) on the front and just draino on the back. Ball striking was basically the same all day.

 

I've also been noted as a sandbagger on noted occasions because of where my index used to fall mainly due to my putting stats. They would see me smoke driver ... then going flagging and immediately mutter 14 handi sure sure.... however after about 5 holes they'd realized why my index was what it was and attempt to up the anti...

 

It was so bad I went and bought a broom....took it to a local course to practice my putting.... after an hour or so some old retired gentleman walked right up to me and said "son your too F***ing young to play that long putter". I took it personally and immediately packed it up and took it back and purchased a traditional length putter.

 

I know I do not strike the ball as well today, but my putting is much improved...especially the 2 footers and lagging from 30 ft.....index for the last few years 7-8 consistently.

[jcrew]

to the extent that your theoretical situation polarized short game and gir, that's probably not likely. however, as seen in quite a few posts in this thread, it's entirely possible for there to be discrepancies between both facets of people's games that contribute to a higher handicap than expected out of someone who hits x number of greens or has y number of putts per round. I know last season during my hs matches, I probably hit 3/9 greens or less and managed to post mostly low 40's. I was clutch at chipping during the season and figured out my putting problems to a certain extent. that's definitely an example of differences in short game and gir abilities. that being said, you're probably right to a certain extent that people that are solid ball-strikers are generally decent putters, etc. so a 15 handicap could only be weighed down so much by short game. However, it would be naive to totally rule out the people for which that is actually the case because it is definitely not TOO rare as you make it out to be. one of the kids I normally play with used to be a terrible putter but he could hit those greens and scored around the same if not a little better than me with my crappy gir count but decent/good short game. i say just leave it at that, the internet is the internet.

[dethman]

this is sort of a pet peeve of mine too. people just don't want to admit to themselves they suck at irons too.

[avrag]

Well, i also do not believe that there are so many people who are "good ballstrikers but have a lousy short game". When I play golf, I encounter more people who are just the opposite, making terrible full swings and somehow still getting their pars or occasional bogeys with a good short game. Usually, if someone can make solid contact regularily with full swings, they should also be able to master pitches and chips better. Putting might be a whole different thing though, because of psychology.

However, handicap really doesn't necessarily reflect how someone plays the game, and that's why I am also not in the camp of many posters here, who basically always write things like: "if you're a 15, you should use SGI irons."

 

I know how I play to my 18 hcp, and most of the times when I shoot my average rounds of around 90, I play 12 holes in par (one or 2 birdies, one or 2 bogeys) and make triple bogeys on the other six, and it is not because of a bad short game.

Why? On one or 2 of those holes it starts with really bad drives, followed by ill-advised attempts at heroic recoveries that I cannot really pull off. On the others I suddenly start to hit the ground way behind the ball with every club in the bag. Those fats are so bad that no "forgiving" iron will do anything about it (and I have tried a lot of them). Those are streaks, which can happen at the start, in the middle or at the end of a round. I have played a few rounds in which I have been under par after 12 or 13 holes and still shot 87 or 88 that way. That's why I don't want anyone looking at my handicap and at the irons I play and think that I am stupid. I am, actually :) , because i cannot get rid of the faults that cause those blow-up holes, but not because of my choice of equipment.

[Billydylan]

I played yesterday and had 12 birdie putts none bigger than 35 foot and missed all of them and managed to 3 putt four times

 

But i dont think my putting is all that bad , im just a tad unlucky. :wub:

[6t4gt0]

Nope, don't agree with you.

My weakness is putting, I don't know how many times I've heard "You know if you could only putt ......".

Practice all the time, I'm good on the practice green but when I get on the course the gremlins creep in.

I get a kick out of people who don't think good players can be bad putters or that more practice will fix their issues, hasn't worked for me, not yet anyways.

[scores]

Ok make sure you have a putter that fits your style!

 

I like my arms almost hanging:

 

On my set : If I held a ball under my nose in between my eyes and dropped it straight to the ground: thats where I would set up.(eyes over the ball).

 

Next I would just rock my shoulders nothing more: I like to practice putting with with a club under my arm pits

and rock --> "my wife wants to learn this summer gotta come up with something different"

 

Also I want my putter head accelerating through the ball "fast greens take it back slower but accelerate.

 

Good luck that works for me.. i hope it helps

[TEConnor]

As a general rule, I agree that for the most part, if you hear or see someone ever say they average over 70% GIR, then say they are anything more than a 2 handicap one of two things is true (1) they are lying or (2) they are sandbagging.

 

HOWEVER, I play twice or more times per week with a guy who has devolved from scratch to a legitimate 9 handicap in two years. He hits the ball the exact same today (maybe better?) as two years ago. However, he has a weird eye disease (glasses haven't helped) that affects his short-distance vision and balance. As a result, he can still swing the club fine, but he gets vertigo over the putter. It would be truly hysterical if it weren't sad (the vision thing, the putting is funny). While his putting has improved slightly with the broom and the claw, it is still just AWFUL. He regularly misses 4 foot, flat putts by 6 inches or more. In our team games, there is a special rule for him that anything inside his second leather is good, out of pity.

 

Cheers,

Tim

[Sledge Hammer]

:wub: I thought you were writing about me.

 

I'm the guy Ben Hogan talks about, who has that pretty swing, but can't break 80. I play with a gentleman who used to be a golf pro and played for some years on the Canadian Tour. He claims that if he had my swing he would have made a fortune. Where I struggle is from 150 in. I have been fighting the chipping/pithcing yips for 25years. Putting is not so bad, but usually about 32 putts. I'm currently working on a more rotary swing with the above pro and hope that will also translate into better GIR, up & down and putts/round.

 

I used the formula from above to compare an average round I played last year. 95-(2x8)=79. I shot an 85 that day and actually played quite a bit better on the back 9. I find that when I'm playing well (and I've shot in the mid to low 70's fairly consistently when I was a teenager), it is hard to believe that I could play poorly. But when I'm struggling it is sometimes hard to believe that I ever played very well at all. It is also very frustrating.

 

I don't think you can make general statements about different people's ability, when many of the best to play the game agree, the game is 90% mental.

[SpeedyPro]

I agree with some posters saying it's their game and style, so we don't need to care about what they are saying too much. And I also agree that we are on the internet, probably I am act as "Speedy Pro" not as real myself, Doug.

 

And there also is a chance that people just make some excuses why they play forged blades while their handicaps are not low enough.

 

However, I think I know the reason why many people says "I am a great ball striker but my chips and putts suck".

 

==> Disappointment from missing chips and putts are much more greater than that from mishits from tee shot or 150 yds approach.

And I think it's because, chips and putts are the last thing we can blame. Let's say someone playing 500 yds par-5. He misses the fairway, but he knows he has a chance to make a birdie if he get out of the rough and put the ball inside 100 yds. He misses again and 200 yds left. But he still knows that he can make a birdie if he hits nice #4 hybrid. He forgets his miss. Now again he didn't hit it well, so he's in the greenside rough, 30 yds away. But he knows again he has a chance to make birdie if he chips in. He misses barely. NOW, he thinks his short games sucks. He remembers everything from his chipshot: backswing, ball trajectory, how the ball didn't go in, etc. If he misses his putt, he remembers it even better and he thinks he's the worst putter on earth.

 

Sorry for long story. Bottom line is, people might lie to justify themselves, but I think they possibly just think their short games suck because they remember their bad shots from short games more.

 

Just my opinion.

[avrag]

.....But he knows again he has a chance to make birdie if he chips in. He misses barely. NOW, he thinks his short games sucks. He remembers everything from his chipshot: backswing, ball trajectory, how the ball didn't go in, etc. If he misses his putt, he remembers it even better and he thinks he's the worst putter on earth.

 

Sorry for long story. Bottom line is, people might lie to justify themselves, but I think they possibly just think their short games suck because they remember their bad shots from short games more.

 

Just my opinion.

 

there is A LOT of wisdom in that.