England 2024 Trip (packed itinerary)

[swo83]

Originally, I planned a very short England leg to an Ireland/Scotland trip, but I'm very happy that I made the decision to cancel.  Given that, I've had the itch since returning to experience the Sunny Old/New 36 hole day that I had booked.  I just received confirmation of my Sunningdale 36 hole day and used that to anchor the rest of my itinerary (much much shorter trip, but I packed in as much as I could).  Here's what I have but looking for some suggestions to fill in the gaps:

 

Mid September 2024

        Sunday: Fly into Heathrow (PM)

       Monday: Royal St George's (PM)

      Tuesday: Sunningdale New (AM)

                      Sunningdale Old (PM)

Wednesday: Swinley Forest (AM)

                      Possibly PM placeholder for St George's Hill (books aren't open yet)

    Thursday: Royal Lytham & St Anne's (AM - earliest tee time)

                      Royal Birkdale (PM)

         Friday: Fly out of Manchester

 

There's two major openings and this is what I'm thinking... I really want to play St George's Hill, and there may be an opportunity on Wednesday PM after Swinley.  I could do this and cancel the Royal Lytham slot.  I could also forego SGH and drive up to Royal Lytham after the morning Swinley round.  Right now I have a spot in the Royal Lytham Dormie House the night before the round...  Or, I may keep all and just go all out for the few days.  It would be a little tiring to drive up to Royal Lytham after the SF and RSG rounds, but well worth it (when in Rome).   

 

Curious people's thoughts on Royal Lytham and SGH.  I know that they're VERY different courses, but pretty much trying to determine if Royal Lytham is worth the effort...  Also, SGH 2024 books do not open until January so I have to wait in limbo.  The other times are already locked in.  

 

I assume that the road systems in England (between London, RSG, and RB/RLSA) are similar to the US.  Is it feasible to play SF and SGH on the same day (earliest SF tee time).  Is it possible to play Royal Lytham (earliest tee time) and Royal Birkdale (2:30pm tee time) on the same day?  I played Tralee and Waterville on a 36 hole day in Ireland and the distances looked much further.  I know that you also can't always go by Google Maps though, which is why I ask.

 

Thanks for any input.

 

 

[hammergolf]

 If you drive to RSG after you land it should be fine. Then it’s only a 2hrs after your round the following day to Sunningdale. I wouldn’t drop Lytham & St. Anne’s for SGH, but that’s just me. If SGH is a must, just play it in the PM then make the 4 hr drive to Manchester. It will be a physically exhausting but if you prepare accordingly it’s definitely doable. As far as driving, the motorways (like Interstates here) are similar. However, the country or back roads are much more narrow than here.

Edited November 13, 2023 by hammergolf

[swo83]

I'm curious how Lytham & St Anne's compares to a Muifield type of experience.  I keep reading about RLSA's bunkering, which seems to be it's signature trademark.  SGH isn't a must, especially with Sunny/SF beforehand.  I originally looked into Hillside and Formby but there were no early tee times on the Thursday before RB.  I didn't see availability for Hoylake either.  Part of me really wanted to find a way to fit in St Enodoc (either by moving RSG to the backend of the trip and cancelling the north, or adding to the backside) but the travel would be too much there/back..   

[hammergolf]

8 minutes ago, swo83 said:

I'm curious how Lytham & St Anne's compares to a Muifield type of experience.  I keep reading about RLSA's bunkering, which seems to be it's signature trademark.  SGH isn't a must, especially with Sunny/SF beforehand.  I originally looked into Hillside and Formby but there were no early tee times on the Thursday before RB.  I didn't see availability for Hoylake either.  Part of me really wanted to find a way to fit in St Enodoc (either by moving RSG to the backend of the trip and cancelling the north, or adding to the backside) but the travel would be too much there/back..   

Lytham is definitely about the bunkering. It definitely has more bunkering than Muirfield, and is tighter off the tee. However, in my opinion Muirfield is a much tougher test. Lytham obviously carries credibility because it’s on the Open rota but I think it’s the easiest of all the venues. The good thing about that area is that there are so many really good options. Hillside, West Lancs, Wallasey, and Southport & Ainsdale are all great courses as well. 

[El Gringo]

I sing the same song all the time. Don’t needlessly spend time on the road. I would definitely save Lytham for a trip which can be a bit more exploratory of the area. If SGH is not available find another course in the area to play. There is Woking, Worplesdon and Addington. If you need links there is Rye and Deal…I think both superior to Lytham. 
 

If you are looking for a quick course to play before Sandwich try the par 3 course at North Foreland. 

[Chanceman]

I have to agree with El Gringo. Having just completed a 3 week trip where you are going, my advice would be not get too hung up on the RLS/RB part of the trip.

Royal St Georges and Royal Cinque Ports (Deal) are virtually next door. Rye is also down that way. That's three world class links not inferior by any means. 

Swinley, Sunningdale and St Georges Hill are quite close so you could easily add Walton Heath (Old and New), Pulborough, The Addington, or Woking/ Worplesdon for the last day pr two. All brilliant courses.

Also do not assume the M1 runs like the I5. We ran into a traffic jam and spent 3 hours going about 5 miles. The back roads can be doozies. 

A pity to miss St Enodoc but Cornwall and the Atlantic Coast has so many great links you could spend a couple of weeks over there. 

[Mccaria]

In an England context that’s a lot of travel. Heading down to RSG involves a lot of smaller roads to the Kent coast. Around Sunningdale/SGH involves the M25 which can be good or very bad so traffic times can easily become much longer. Up to Royal Birkdale involves M25, M1 and M6/M40 which again are very busy roads. So traffic advisory is tough as roadworks, rush hour, crashes can lengthen them materially. 
 

on to courses. 
RSG. Well worth playing, once you are there have you thought of also doing Princes which is literally next door ? Princes has 3x9 holes, has held an Open and is still used as an Open qualifier. 
 

Sunningdale very nice, 2 good courses. SGH very similar so not sure the need to do this as well. If you do decide on SGH make sure you get the best 18 holes, again it is 3x9 and one 9 (green ?) is definitely weaker. 
 

If you are making the effort to get up to north west then definitely do Lytham as well as Birkdale. Lot of good courses on that coast. Could do a good trip just in that area. 

[Tobyrich1928]

I'd agree with some of the above comments that say this looks like quite a lot of travel and at times/routes that probably will see a lot of traffic.

 

M25 on a Sunday afternoon from Heathrow down to Sandwich won't be too bad but i'd definitely recommend then coming back to Surrey straight after RSG, you'll likely be having to go round the M25 at rush hour on Monday night which is likely to be pretty tough going. Or it'd be an extremely early rush to get to Sunny for the first round on Tuesday.

 

You should easily be able to get from Swinley to SGH on that Wednesday lunchtime, but that drive up the M25,M1 and M6 on Wednesday night will likely be v long. I'd definitely suggest leaving the North East for another trip, you'll be able to enjoy the courses and the atmosphere in the Surrey belt a lot more if you aren't thinking about getting finished and back in the car to sit in rush-hour traffic. SGH has one of the best clubhouse terrace's in England so being able to relax and have a drink on there after a Swinley/SGH 36 hole day would be extremely satisfying.

 

Lot's of people have suggested lots of very good options for how to fill that Thursday in Surrey if you don't go north - 36 at Walton Heath, 2 of the 3 W's (Woking, West Hill and Worplesdon),, or if you want to get back to the coast for links going south will take you to Hayling (awesome underrated Links) and maybe tie in Pulborough on the way back up.

 

[swo83]

Thanks for the advice.  Especially on the traffic patterns around London.  

 

This is completely unrelated to the itinerary above, but for those who've played it, what are your thoughts on St Enodoc?  I'm a big fan of Tom Coyne and have enjoyed a lot of his recommended courses (Carne, NB, etc).  St Enodoc seems to be his favorite quirky English course.  Is this a can't miss?  I know it's way down in Cornwall out of the way.  I don't hear about it much, so would welcome any feedback on the course.

[El Gringo]

On 11/17/2023 at 1:35 PM, swo83 said:

Thanks for the advice.  Especially on the traffic patterns around London.  

 

This is completely unrelated to the itinerary above, but for those who've played it, what are your thoughts on St Enodoc?  I'm a big fan of Tom Coyne and have enjoyed a lot of his recommended courses (Carne, NB, etc).  St Enodoc seems to be his favorite quirky English course.  Is this a can't miss?  I know it's way down in Cornwall out of the way.  I don't hear about it much, so would welcome any feedback on the course.

St Enodoc is top notch. Great combo of quirk, fun, beauty and toughness. Makes for a great trip with Perranporth, Burnham and Berrow, the Sauntons, Westward Ho!, Trevose, Bude and West Cornwall.

Edited December 7, 2023 by El Gringo

[Chanceman]

Yep, I agree with ElGringo. We played St Enodoc and Perranporth on our recent trip and loved them both. StE is a little more refined than PP but play both. Seaside golf, nothing like it.

[swo83]

Here's one more (and it'll be the last "how is this course" from me).  I don't read much about Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin) but it seems to be well-regarded in the rankings.  How does Woodhall Spa compare to the Sunningdales/SF/SGH/other Surrey Courses?  I can only make a judgement based on Google photos, but the Surrey courses look to be better maintained and more interesting.  Again, I have no basis for my judgement outside of photos on the internet.  

[El Gringo]

2 hours ago, swo83 said:

Here's one more (and it'll be the last "how is this course" from me).  I don't read much about Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin) but it seems to be well-regarded in the rankings.  How does Woodhall Spa compare to the Sunningdales/SF/SGH/other Surrey Courses?  I can only make a judgement based on Google photos, but the Surrey courses look to be better maintained and more interesting.  Again, I have no basis for my judgement outside of photos on the internet.  

Woodall, like the other top flight inland courses in northern England, is more rugged than the southern England counterparts. The recent tree removal and bunker work has made a great difference. Still, I think the best of the southern England courses are more interesting mainly because of better terrain iand greens. That said, Woodhall is definitely worth playing. If you do make it to Woodhall consider playing Seacroft. It’s a neat links currently on the mend.

[swo83]

Any thoughts on Formby and Hillside if I'm in the area for Royal Lytham and Birkdale?  I was listening to a NLU podcast and they didn't see seem very high on Hillside, but it might have been more related to their day's play as opposed to the course itself.  

 

Lastly, and unrelated to the itinerary above, but what are you thoughts on Ganton?  Seems to be known for it's difficult bunkering but suffers from it's remote location.  I'm guessing El Gringo's comment about Woodhall above applies to Ganton as well.

Edited December 7, 2023 by swo83

[El Gringo]

I think Formby is a better course than Lytham. Terrific place. I am less enthusiastic about Hillside, but it’s good. I prefer Southport and Ainsdale on the other side of the tracks.
 

Ganton is well worth a go if in the area. Like Woodhall, I am told some gunge has been cut back which is great news. It’s one of the best conditioned courses I have played, but it’s tough if one can’t drive past bunkers. 

You are spoiled for choice so I don’t much see the point in driving all around the country. Pick an area and explore it.

[sabram]

1 hour ago, El Gringo said:

You are spoiled for choice so I don’t much see the point in driving all around the country. Pick an area and explore it.

This!!!

[Chanceman]

Having just driven around England to play a number of bucket list courses, next time I would definitely centre things around London/Surrey/Kent, Cornwall/Devon, Midlands or Leeds/Manchester. Plenty of golfing riches everywhere you look in England.