Was a putter fitting worth it

[Puttersaurus Rex]

11 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

 

 

The OP asked if a putter fitting was worth it. My reply was 'no, because fitters do not have inventory of lighter head weight putters'.

If there was a fitter out there offering putter head weights including 310 and 320 grams I would agree a putter fitting might be worthwhile.

You are gatekeeping putter head weight (one aspect of a putter), and ignoring advancements in green agronomy, fittings, and putter design.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Puttersaurus Rex

[5hort5tuff]

6 hours ago, st1800e said:

And that reason is?  The average golf consumer is not an outstanding putter, nor do they play regularly on faster greens.  A heavy putter can compensate for imperfections in the stroke. 
Who knows “exactly” what all the tour pros play? 

Reason #1 - nobody buys them.  

 

They are less forgiving, more difficult to make higher MOI models, and as you stated in your comment to help my arguement, light putters can penish imperfections in the stroke. 

 

Also you can see what many tour pros play, and although we dont always know weight, they are not using 320g scotty cameron/odyssey  mallets. 

Edited November 24, 2023 by 5hort5tuff

[Lasorcier]

I'll say yes as long as it is an actual good fitter.   I have had two,  one good and one bad. 

 

The good one gave me some rules based on the laser/mirror thing where I am aligning putters to what I think I see.  That revealed that mallets and plumber's necks are strictly off limits (what I think i see is not reality with them - i simply aim them wrong from the get go).  

 

Then we worked on ball position to further dial in the vision versus reality thing.   

 

At that point it didn't matter what the putter was as long as it wasn't of the forbidden class.

 

We just then stepped on it and bent it to get lie and loft optimal. 

 

[mshills]

21 hours ago, Binson said:

If it's a weakpoint in your game, there's nothing to lose really.

Correct. I’d add putting lessons are just as important as a fitting. Most golfers don’t practice putting (hitting five minutes of putts on the green next to the #1 tee box does not count) and of those who do practice, I’d wager a sizable portion of them don’t really know what they are practicing and aren’t working on anything in particular. 

[Louis_Posture]

3 hours ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

You are gatekeeping putter head weight (one aspect of a putter), and ignoring advancements in green agronomy, fittings, and putter design.

If by "agronomy" you are referring to faster green speeds, that condition lends itself to lighter head weights, not heavier.

My opinion about putter fittings is that without proper technique (grip-posture-alignment) a fitting will not have much value other than the experience of it.

Newer design putters are fun to look at and utilize new materials but as far as I know the newer designs are not helping players roll the ball better or make more putts. Well known fitter David Edel has proclaimed that the Bullseye (a more than 60-year-old design) is the easiest to align for the majority of players.

[Louis_Posture]

2 hours ago, 5hort5tuff said:

Reason #1 - nobody buys them.  

 

They are less forgiving, more difficult to make higher MOI models, and as you stated in your comment to help my arguement, light putters can penish imperfections in the stroke. 

 

Also you can see what many tour pros play, and although we dont always know weight, they are not using 320g scotty cameron/odyssey  mallets. 

Your reason #1 that "nobody buys them" is absolutely correct, and the reason manufacturers are no longer designing or producing traditional (305–325-gram weight) putter heads.

Like with irons and metal woods, modern putters are designed for mishit shots. For putters especially I believe a high percentage of players would be better served with a putter designed to promote consistently effective strokes which produce a square-quality strike to the ball. This may mean putters heads which are smaller in head size and lighter in weight than what is currently popular. 

Again, I am not suggesting every player would perform better with smaller-lighter putter heads, but my guess is that 50% would do so.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

If by "agronomy" you are referring to faster green speeds, that condition lends itself to lighter head weights, not heavier.

 

As greens have historically gotten faster, then why haven't putters gotten lighter?

 

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

as far as I know the newer designs are not helping players roll the ball better or make more putts.

 

Then why are you commenting?  Purposefully being obtuse?  Why invent the light bulb when candles light up the night as well? 

 

1 hour ago, Louis_Posture said:

the Bullseye (a more than 60-year-old design) is the easiest to align for the majority of players.

Easy to align.  Yes.  That is one aspect of a fitting.  Why aren't they prevalent on tour?  Is Tiger playing one?

 

 

I agree that technique is key.  Even though it isn't static.  The OP is asking about a fitting, and you are against them if there are not 305-325 gram options available.  Those putters were old designs with light shafts and grips to create the ideal balance and feel.  With a heavier head the balance and feel can be replicated with the right shaft, grip, counterbalance, etc.  You know...something a fitting would help with. 

[MattM97]

1 hour ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

 

As greens have historically gotten faster, then why haven't putters gotten lighter?

 

 

Then why are you commenting?  Purposefully being obtuse?  Why invent the light bulb when candles light up the night as well? 

 

Easy to align.  Yes.  That is one aspect of a fitting.  Why aren't they prevalent on tour?  Is Tiger playing one?

 

 

I agree that technique is key.  Even though it isn't static.  The OP is asking about a fitting, and you are against them if there are not 305-325 gram options available.  Those putters were old designs with light shafts and grips to create the ideal balance and feel.  With a heavier head the balance and feel can be replicated with the right shaft, grip, counterbalance, etc.  You know...something a fitting would help with. 

 

He doesn't have a logical answer outside of the 4 things he repeats. 

 

Green Agronomy isn't just about speed, they're flatter and smoother too, reason why the "pop stroke" is basically dead in golf. 

 

If the Bullseye was so great according to David Edel he would be making them but he doesn't because he knows there are better out there. He even says it after he mentioned the Bullseye in a few podcasts but you know selective hearing and all. 

 

Exactly one can test with a 380g head in a fitting if the loft and lie are wrong a 320g head won't mean bull, you can go into the fitting, cry the heads are heavy, get your specs, go home, buy a 250g putter head from FisherPrice and be happy for all we care. 

[Roejye]

I got a putter fitting when I won a full bag fitting with CC from here. I've kept it in the bag for 2 years now and I have no plans or desire to change it. I would say it has improved my putting, but I wouldn't say significantly. I would say the biggest help has been knowing my miss was down to my stroke. It's not a magic bullet, I still need to stop laying up to a comfortable distance on the green every once in awhile, but it has helped. 

[Binson]

19 hours ago, MattM97 said:

 

Exactly one can test with a 380g head in a fitting if the loft and lie are wrong a 320g head won't mean bull, you can go into the fitting, cry the heads are heavy, get your specs, go home, buy a 250g putter head from FisherPrice and be happy for all we care. 

I do think that having the wrong head weight for your stroke can lead to you not making the stroke you want to make - whether that's heavy or light.  If the point of a fitting is to be able to fit to a person's stroke, then I believe the fitting experience will be better for more people if there are more lighter options as well than available today.  There's no doubt that more people these days prefer a heavier head than 320g (or at least have built a stroke that is better served by one).  So, I understand the need to bias towards the market from a cost efficiency perspective. 

 

It can also make sense if you like a longer putter to have some lighter weight heads on hand as a fitter.

 

21 hours ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

  Is Tiger playing one?

 

Not to be that guy, but he does play an Anser 2 shape with 320-330g of headweight.  When people have picked it up, they often remark on how light it feels.  Most people aren't Tiger (or Faxon, or Crenshaw) though.  

 

----

Even though most people in the market don't prefer blades, they're still made and sold. I would love to see the same for lighter weight putter heads. But, I get that it's unlikely to be profitable given where the market is these days. 

 

 

[Louis_Posture]

48 minutes ago, Binson said:

 If the point of a fitting is to be able to fit to a person's stroke...

 

 

 

 

 

I hope you don't mind my singling out the above sentence. You are correct that the people selling putter fitting services try to fit to the customer's existing putting stroke.

My take is that probably 95% of amateur players do not strike consistently solid putts, roll the ball well, or make many putts longer than a few feet. So, I question the value of fitting to a faulty technique/stroke.

Compared to other types of golf shots, proper effective putting technique is relatively easy for players to learn and adopt. To the OP, if a putter fitting includes technique instruction it could be worthwhile.

[Puttersaurus Rex]

1 hour ago, Binson said:

Not to be that guy

Well, when you lead with that...you are.

 

I am well aware of Tiger’s Newport weight.  The statement was about a Bullseye putter.

 

I am for putters that weigh 330-350.  I have lighter that I play with.  Getting fit helps to be aware of what to look for.

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, Binson said:

 

 

It can also make sense if you like a longer putter to have some lighter weight heads on hand as a fitter.

 

Not to be that guy, but he does play an Anser 2 shape with 320-330g of headweight.  When people have picked it up, they often remark on how light it feels.  Most people aren't Tiger (or Faxon, or Crenshaw) though.  

 

----

Even though most people in the market don't prefer blades, they're still made and sold. I would love to see the same for lighter weight putter heads. But, I get that it's unlikely to be profitable given where the market is these days. 

 

 

My take on the heavier head weights is that 25 years ago Scotty Cameron started the trend. Specifically, he recognized that a 330 gram head (compared to 310-320 gram standard head weight of competing brands at that time) allowed a player to enjoy a relatively solid sound-feel from a mishit putt. As putter head weight increases the sound-feel of a mishit becomes more similar to that of a solid-quality strike. 

[mshills]

On 11/24/2023 at 11:31 AM, Louis_Posture said:

If by "agronomy" you are referring to faster green speeds, that condition lends itself to lighter head weights, not heavier.

Completely disagree. My observation is as greens have gotten faster and more consistent, putter heads have gotten heavier. Now, it’s bad logic to assume causation here, but I freely admit I don’t have data, so it’s just an opinion.
 

My personal anecdote is I putt better with lightweight putters on shaggy muni greens, but I’m also not ever going to switch putters based on the course I happen to be playing that day. That would make no sense.  

 

As far as breaking out the Bullseye…..no thank you. Great classic, but I that pencil eraser sized sweet spot under pressure? Nope. 

[Binson]

28 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

I hope you don't mind my singling out the above sentence. You are correct that the people selling putter fitting services try to fit to the customer's existing putting stroke.

My take is that probably 95% of amateur players do not strike consistently solid putts, roll the ball well, or make many putts longer than a few feet. So, I question the value of fitting to a faulty technique/stroke.

Compared to other types of golf shots, proper effective putting technique is relatively easy for players to learn and adopt. To the OP, if a putter fitting includes technique instruction it could be worthwhile.

I don't mind any well-mannered and well-intentioned comment.  

Just like with golf swings, there are many ways to deliver an effective stroke.  And, a stroke can also be improved by a fitting or instruction without necessarily compromising one's natural feel.  The element of feel and tempo is something that can't be taught as easily, and that is where I think head weight / swing weight plays a big factor.  Especially if you are more of a feel putter for distance control, weighting that allows you to not think about your stroke makes a big difference - whatever the weight is that achieves that for you.

 

 

27 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

My take on the heavier head weights is that 25 years ago Scotty Cameron started the trend. Specifically, he recognized that a 330 gram head (compared to 310-320 gram standard head weight of competing brands at that time) allowed a player to enjoy a relatively solid sound-feel from a mishit putt. As putter head weight increases the sound-feel of a mishit becomes more similar to that of a solid-quality strike. 

I think bigger grips and the growing popularity of a more rigid putting technique have also coincided with this increase in head weight.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Well, when you lead with that...you are.

 

I am well aware of Tiger’s Newport weight.  The statement was about a Bullseye putter.

 

I am for putters that weigh 330-350.  I have lighter that I play with.  Getting fit helps to be aware of what to look for.

 

Simply pointing out that there are better examples (and I never disagreed that I was not that guy, just that I hate being that guy lol).  I don't think there is an argument from a true fitting perspective to limit head weights to a narrow range within 20g.  But, I get it from a cost saving perspective and most people will sit somewhere close enough.

 

Ultimately, we agree on the last part of your comment.  You never know what improvements may be out there for you unless you experiment. 

[MattM97]

I'm not gonna quote any specific comment cause too many to but the ones crying they don't have light putters don't realize fitters do. Just not smart enough to realize it. 

 

What's a brand every agnostic fitter carries for a putter? Scotty Cameron. 

 

What does every Scotty Cameron putter come with now? Removable weights. 

 

What happens when you remove those weights? It gets lighter. 

 

Because of the new Scotty focus the heads are something like 320g without weights. So you can screw in 2 5g weights to hit 330g or whatever or just putt and you have your light putter. 

 

Amazing what some basic thinking can produce. Now if you say it's not the same cause of the weights removed, well many guys on tour do it at times.