Your practice swing is NON functional and how to fix your swing in general

[hammersia]

8 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Location checks out. All you have to look forward to when trying to find a low point is...

I saw Stenson taking a practice iron swing for a tee shot at a burnt out Muirfield, hitting the ground so hard I could feel the vibrations where I was twenty yards away.

[Soloman1]

I can’t remember ever seeing Jack Nicklaus take a practice swing or even a practice stroke with a putter.

[betarhoalphadelta]

21 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I’ve been a 1/3 guy and had to always work on 2.

 

My point was if you work on 3 without 1/2 being right, you’re not helping yourself.

Yep. This is why I don't work on 3. 

 

It helps that I have "adequate" speed. I'm by no means a big hitter but I'm at the same time not a short knocker. But I know I have the physical tools for MUCH more speed than I have. 

 

I also know that probably what's limiting my speed the most is issues with sequencing, so sorting those out will probably add speed even if I never make any attempt at "speed training". Trying to make a bad sequence go faster isn't going to help anything but spraying the ball worse than I do now. 

[sjsdogsrule]

On 2/8/2024 at 12:12 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Often a poor rotation and shift.

What is the best way to fix/work on low point control?  I do have your swing essentials video (and a couple others).  Some days its ok, other days I'm very inconsistent.

-- Scott

[MonteScheinblum]

9 minutes ago, sjsdogsrule said:

What is the best way to fix/work on low point control?  I do have your swing essentials video (and a couple others).  Some days its ok, other days I'm very inconsistent.

-- Scott

Getting into that left side before the end of the backswing is critical for low point control.

[sjsdogsrule]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Getting into that left side before the end of the backswing is critical for low point control.

Thanks.  I need to re-watch your Power Shift video series.

-- Scott

[Hawkeye77]

13 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

I can’t remember ever seeing Jack Nicklaus take a practice swing or even a practice stroke with a putter.

Nothing formal, a little back and forth before taking his stance and settling in - but nothing at all on this one!

 

[Nels55]

7 hours ago, sjsdogsrule said:

What is the best way to fix/work on low point control?  I do have your swing essentials video (and a couple others).  Some days its ok, other days I'm very inconsistent.

-- Scott

This drill can definitely help with low point control:

 

[nepatriotsfan]

 Monte, do you carefully watch centeredness of contact when increasing speed? How would you rank speed vs centeredness of contact? Thank you.

[MonteScheinblum]

11 minutes ago, nepatriotsfan said:

 Monte, do you carefully watch centeredness of contact when increasing speed? How would you rank speed vs centeredness of contact? Thank you.

Unless you have a huge club head speed gap, hitting the center will trump more speed.  The goal is to get both.

[MonteScheinblum]

On 2/8/2024 at 4:42 PM, Ty_Webb said:

Funny thing is for me, if I have 3 in a given swing then 1 and 2 tend to sort themselves out fairly well (1 especially). If I don't have 3 (say a partial wedge shot), then 1 goes straight out the ******* window and 2 can be a struggle too. Played an event last year. Shortish par 4. Hit a good drive, leaving myself 65 yards for my 2nd shot. My 3rd shot from about 45 yards I overcorrected on and when I failed to get up and down from 25 yards over the green, I made double. That was fun.

That’s common among better, more experienced players.  Was a problem for me even in my korn ferry days.  The ability to manage 1 or 2 being an issue using speed.  Then when you reduce speed, one of them goes completely in the toilet.

[iacas]

To this topic…

 

 

Yep.

[MonteScheinblum]

Conversation with the guy in the picture above

 

@iacas will appreciate this

 

How come I can’t get shaft lean like that when I hit the ball?  What’s the mental block?

 

Its not a mental block, you’d not only hit it 45* to the right, you’d top it.

 

So how do I make that swing and hit the ball properly?

 

You can’t.

 

So what do I need to do?

 

Hit a ball and we will see.

 

Should I try and hold the angle so I get in that position.

 

No, just hit a solid shot.

 

How do I do that, I will be flippy and not like the practice swing.

 

I understand that, but we need to see why you’re opening the face.  You get flippy to square the face to the target

 

So how do I do I square the face without being flippy.

 

I won’t know until I see you actually hit a ball.

 

Should I try and hit it straight, or should I try and get in the impact position in my practice swing, because I want that impact.

 

No, just hit a ball the way you would trying to hit a good shot when you play.

 

(Hits ball)

 

You’re flippy because you cup your left wrist to start the downswing.  You need to at least keep it neutral, but will likely have to bow it slightly in order to not be flippy and get the impact position you want.

 

(I demonstrate, then they copy)

 

That feels weird, I feel like I’m going to hit it way left if I do that.  
 

You will, but now you can get to impact the way you want and the ball won’t go way right.

 

(Hits ball and it’s flippy and goes way left)

 

That felt weird and it went way left.

 

Right, now you’ll be able to swing like your practice swing and hit it straight.

 

So I should hold the angle?

 

No, just let your body adapt to the change and within a range session or two, you’ll get used to it.

 

(Hit another ball)

 

This feels weird and it’s still going left and I’m still flippy.

 

How long have you been playing golf?

 

20 years

 

Swing always been like this?

 

Yes for last 15.

 

It takes a bit for new pattern to take hold.

 

Ok, but this feels really weird, how long before it stops going left?

 

Tell you what, go to the range twice.  If it’s still flippy and going left, I’ll give you a free lesson.

 

(Tentative). OK

 

(Get email the next day)

 

I just flushed 3 balls in a row and more than a club longer than I ever have been and it’s not flippy 

 

Awesome, great job.

 

Buuuuuuuuut, it still feels weird and it still doesn’t look as good as my practice swing.  What am I doing wrong?

 

 

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪😜😜😜🤪🤪😜😜🤪😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

 

Edited February 11 by MonteScheinblum

[Hawkeye77]

12 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Conversation with the guy in the picture above

 

@iacas will appreciate this

 

How come I can’t get shaft lean like that when I hit the ball?  What’s the mental block?

 

Its not a mental block, you’d not only hit it 45* to the right, you’d top it.

 

So how do I make that swing and hit the ball properly?

 

You can’t.

 

So what do I need to do?

 

Hit a ball and we will see.

 

Should I try and hold the angle so I get in that position.

 

No, just hit a solid shot.

 

How do I do that, I will be flippy and not like the practice swing.

 

I understand that, but we need to see why you’re opening the face.  You get flippy to square the face to the target

 

So how do I do I square the face without being flippy.

 

I won’t know until I see you actually hit a ball.

 

Should I try and hit it straight, or should I try and get in the impact position in my practice swing, because I want that impact.

 

No, just hit a ball the way you would trying to hit a good shot when you play.

 

(Hits ball)

 

You’re flippy because you cup your left wrist to start the downswing.  You need to at least keep it neutral, but will likely have to bow it slightly in order to not be flippy and get the impact position you want.

 

(I demonstrate, then they copy)

 

That feels weird, I feel like I’m going to hit it way left if I do that.  
 

You will, but now you can get to impact the way you want and the ball won’t go way right.

 

(Hits ball and it’s flippy and goes way left)

 

That felt weird and it went way left.

 

Right, now you’ll be able to swing like your practice swing and hit it straight.

 

So I should hold the angle?

 

No, just let your body adapt to the change and within a range session or two, you’ll get used to it.

 

(Hit another ball)

 

This feels weird and it’s still going left and I’m still flippy.

 

How long have you been playing golf?

 

20 years

 

Swing always been like this?

 

Yes for last 15.

 

It takes a bit for new pattern to take hold.

 

Ok, but this feels really weird, how long before it stops going left?

 

Tell you what, go to the range twice.  If it’s still flippy and going left, I’ll give you a free lesson.

 

(Tentative). OK

 

(Get email the next day)

 

I just flushed 3 balls in a row and more than a club longer than I ever have been and it’s not flippy 

 

Awesome, great job.

 

Buuuuuuuuut, it still feels weird and it still doesn’t look as good as my practice swing.  What am I doing wrong?

 

 

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪😜😜😜🤪🤪😜😜🤪😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

 

Students! 

Edited February 11 by Hawkeye77

[DaveLeeNC]

This was probably around 2005. I was working hard on my game and frustrated with 'how good' my practice swing appeared to be in video (compared to my real swing). So I set out to 'take my practice swing to the course'. Then I set out to take my practice swing to the range. Then I set out to simply ONE TIME hit a ball with my practice swing. 

 

After about 6 weeks I came to the conclusion that my practice swing has as much to do with my real swing as Tiger Wood's practice swing has anything to do with my real swing. 

 

There was one time that I thought "this will do it". We were on the mats at our club and they were of decent size. So I would just (literally) wander around a mat taking continuous practice swings and then just let one of those walking around swings be at the ball. Of course that did not work. But what was amazing is that if I looked carefully at the video I could literally see how my eyes/face changed on that single swing that actually hit a ball. 

 

For me practice swings can be a first step in a swing change but you really have not done much until it has hit a golf ball. 

 

dave

Edited February 11 by DaveLeeNC

[nepatriotsfan]

20 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Unless you have a huge club head speed gap, hitting the center will trump more speed.  The goal is to get both.

Thank you and I appreciate you sharing all of your golf knowledge with the forum. 

[CasualLie]

23 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Conversation with the guy in the picture above

 

@iacas will appreciate this

 

How come I can’t get shaft lean like that when I hit the ball?  What’s the mental block?

 

Its not a mental block, you’d not only hit it 45* to the right, you’d top it.

 

So how do I make that swing and hit the ball properly?

 

You can’t.

 

So what do I need to do?

 

Hit a ball and we will see.

 

Should I try and hold the angle so I get in that position.

 

No, just hit a solid shot.

 

How do I do that, I will be flippy and not like the practice swing.

 

I understand that, but we need to see why you’re opening the face.  You get flippy to square the face to the target

 

So how do I do I square the face without being flippy.

 

I won’t know until I see you actually hit a ball.

 

Should I try and hit it straight, or should I try and get in the impact position in my practice swing, because I want that impact.

 

No, just hit a ball the way you would trying to hit a good shot when you play.

 

(Hits ball)

 

You’re flippy because you cup your left wrist to start the downswing.  You need to at least keep it neutral, but will likely have to bow it slightly in order to not be flippy and get the impact position you want.

 

(I demonstrate, then they copy)

 

That feels weird, I feel like I’m going to hit it way left if I do that.  
 

You will, but now you can get to impact the way you want and the ball won’t go way right.

 

(Hits ball and it’s flippy and goes way left)

 

That felt weird and it went way left.

 

Right, now you’ll be able to swing like your practice swing and hit it straight.

 

So I should hold the angle?

 

No, just let your body adapt to the change and within a range session or two, you’ll get used to it.

 

(Hit another ball)

 

This feels weird and it’s still going left and I’m still flippy.

 

How long have you been playing golf?

 

20 years

 

Swing always been like this?

 

Yes for last 15.

 

It takes a bit for new pattern to take hold.

 

Ok, but this feels really weird, how long before it stops going left?

 

Tell you what, go to the range twice.  If it’s still flippy and going left, I’ll give you a free lesson.

 

(Tentative). OK

 

(Get email the next day)

 

I just flushed 3 balls in a row and more than a club longer than I ever have been and it’s not flippy 

 

Awesome, great job.

 

Buuuuuuuuut, it still feels weird and it still doesn’t look as good as my practice swing.  What am I doing wrong?

 

 

🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪😜😜😜🤪🤪😜😜🤪😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

 

 

Well... At least you get paid for that!  I've had these kinds of conversations with people outside of work and it's maddening!

Edited February 12 by CasualLie

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, CasualLie said:

 

Well... At least you get paid for that!  I've had these kinds of conversations work people outside of work and it's maddening!

Golfers are crazy……all of US

[CasualLie]

Well... Not to start a debate as I'm convinced practice swing has almost nothing to do with the real swing, but funny, Erika Larkin is hawking a new series through performance golf and in her marketing she's using an example of a practice swing is much better than the real thing for many golfers.  She's even showing a golfer totally on plane with no ball, but the same golfer is all over the place with a ball in the way.  Yes, golfers are crazy.

[Nels55]

30 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

Well... Not to start a debate as I'm convinced practice swing has almost nothing to do with the real swing,

LOL my practice swing is the same as my ball swing and the more practice swings I take the better I tend to hit the ball.  I guess that I am an outlier?  I have certainly seen a lot of golfers who's practice swing looks a lot better then their ball swing but I have also seen a few who's practice swing looks really good as does their ball swing and those are usually skilled players who don't take many practice swings anyway.  So I guess to debate a little bit I think that there are some of us who are not normal when it comes to practice swings...

[CasualLie]

8 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

LOL my practice swing is the same as my ball swing and the more practice swings I take the better I tend to hit the ball.  I guess that I am an outlier?  I have certainly seen a lot of golfers who's practice swing looks a lot better then their ball swing but I have also seen a few who's practice swing looks really good as does their ball swing and those are usually skilled players who don't take many practice swings anyway.  So I guess to debate a little bit I think that there are some of us who are not normal when it comes to practice swings...

 

Just curious, are you taking practice swings trying to mimic everything you want to do in the real swing?  Meticulous setup?  Using a blade of discolored grass or a leaf or something as reference of ball position?  Swing at exact tempo/speed?  Take the same kind of divot?  Etc...

 

If it works, great!  For me, I can't really do all that.  That would be exhausting.  But maybe I need more, maybe take the shot more seriously?  Generally, I'll take 1-2 mini swings just to loosen up, them go into my shot routine.  And sometimes I don't.  Mostly my focus is on planning/visualizing the shot, pick a target, and go.

[Nels55]

15 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

Just curious, are you taking practice swings trying to mimic everything you want to do in the real swing?  Meticulous setup?  Using a blade of discolored grass or a leaf or something as reference of ball position?  Swing at exact tempo/speed?  Take the same kind of divot?  Etc...

 

If it works, great!  For me, I can't really do all that.  That would be exhausting.  But maybe I need more, maybe take the shot more seriously?  Generally, I'll take 1-2 mini swings just to loosen up, them go into my shot routine.  And sometimes I don't.  Mostly my focus is on planning/visualizing the shot, pick a target, and go.

No I am not meticulous about my setup on my practice swings or my ball swings for that matter.  You are correct that taking a lot of practice swings while playing would be exhausting which is one reason among many why I don't do that.  Once in a while if I am waiting to hit I will take a few serious practice swings usually setting up and hitting something like a twig or acorn or a daisy or whatever.  When I do take those swings I can feel if I am off a bit and try to adjust.  Otherwise while playing I usually do a partial swing often doing some drill that I am working on before setting up to the ball and whacking away.

 

I think that the reason my practice swing and ball swing are the same is that I have spent a lot of time doing back and through practice swings doing Swing the Clubhead type drills and also Dr. Kwon type drills.  I used to do a drill where I would set three or four balls in a line and then walk down the line swinging back and through in constant motion hitting a ball with each swing.  LOL if you can do that without your grip changing then you got something! 

[CasualLie]

10 hours ago, Nels55 said:

No I am not meticulous about my setup on my practice swings or my ball swings for that matter.  You are correct that taking a lot of practice swings while playing would be exhausting which is one reason among many why I don't do that.  Once in a while if I am waiting to hit I will take a few serious practice swings usually setting up and hitting something like a twig or acorn or a daisy or whatever.  When I do take those swings I can feel if I am off a bit and try to adjust.  Otherwise while playing I usually do a partial swing often doing some drill that I am working on before setting up to the ball and whacking away.

 

I think that the reason my practice swing and ball swing are the same is that I have spent a lot of time doing back and through practice swings doing Swing the Clubhead type drills and also Dr. Kwon type drills.  I used to do a drill where I would set three or four balls in a line and then walk down the line swinging back and through in constant motion hitting a ball with each swing.  LOL if you can do that without your grip changing then you got something! 

 

Rehearsing a position, like a drill, or a feel, i.e. locking in on an intent... That I sometimes do and yes, what you are saying...valuable.  

 

Still going with @MonteScheinblum that the so called perfect looking full practice swing is a myth. I just found it funny the Erika infommercial was all about "why is your real swing not as on plane and perfect as your practice swing"!

[MonteScheinblum]

23 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

 

Rehearsing a position, like a drill, or a feel, i.e. locking in on an intent... That I sometimes do and yes, what you are saying...valuable.  

 

Still going with @MonteScheinblum that the so called perfect looking full practice swing is a myth. I just found it funny the Erika infommercial was all about "why is your real swing not as on plane and perfect as your practice swing"!

The term “on plane” needs to be abandoned.  I’ve used it in the past because people understood it, but it’s an antiquated 2D term that can be manipulated by changing the angle it’s viewed.  Left/Right and High/Low.

 

We now have 3D understanding of the swing and if you include other variables like face angle, loft and dynamic lie, we’re into poly dimensional concepts.  Practice swings are non functional.  There should be no debate.  Polar bears are pretty too and dangerous as all get out.

[GoGoErky]

46 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The term “on plane” needs to be abandoned.  I’ve used it in the past because people understood it, but it’s an antiquated 2D term that can be manipulated by changing the angle it’s viewed.  Left/Right and High/Low.

 

We now have 3D understanding of the swing and if you include other variables like face angle, loft and dynamic lie, we’re into poly dimensional concepts.  Practice swings are non functional.  There should be no debate.  Polar bears are pretty too and dangerous as all get out.

What are your thoughts on Bradley Hughes saying on plane only matters in the follow thru 

[MonteScheinblum]

13 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

What are your thoughts on Bradley Hughes saying on plane only matters in the follow thru 

I guess it’s fine for a reference point and I will show people improvement but it’s from the same angle.  2D is analysis as a rule is dangerous.  2D before and after from same angle to show. Improvement is fine.

 

Just because I’m criticizing the use of a term doesn’t mean I don’t think instructors are good. Bradley and Erica are very good. When people criticize the way, I worded things in the past, it taught me to word them better 

[GoGoErky]

58 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I guess it’s fine for a reference point and I will show people improvement but it’s from the same angle.  2D is analysis as a rule is dangerous.  2D before and after from same angle to show. Improvement is fine.

 

Just because I’m criticizing the use of a term doesn’t mean I don’t think instructors are good. Bradley and Erica are very good. When people criticize the way, I worded things in the past, it taught me to word them better 

Makes sense. I agree both are good and I used to play with someone that went to see Erika since she’s not far from dc metro area

[Nels55]

6 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

 Practice swings are non functional.  There should be no debate.  

Okay, does that mean that my practice swing looks different then my ball swing or is the non functioning part of it something that you would see with GEARs or the like?  

[virtuoso]

12 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Okay, does that mean that my practice swing looks different then my ball swing or is the non functioning part of it something that you would see with GEARs or the like?  

A decent golf teacher could just see it with their eyeballs......your golfing buddies will say it looks different too, but better than your real swing.

Edited February 14 by virtuoso

[MonteScheinblum]

5 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

A decent golf teacher could just see it with their eyeballs......your golfing buddies will say it looks different too, but better than your real swing.

Bingo.

 

All of your smooth moves in front of the mirror seem infallible, but when face to face with a woman it won’t work.