College Recruiting - Requirements

[Golfquant]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/us/yale-standardized-testing-sat-act.html

 

"Yale University will require standardized test scores for admission for students applying to enter in the fall of 2025...."

 

were the test requirements ever waived for college recruits anywhere?

[Tugu]

3 hours ago, Golfquant said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/us/yale-standardized-testing-sat-act.html

 

"Yale University will require standardized test scores for admission for students applying to enter in the fall of 2025...."

 

were the test requirements ever waived for college recruits anywhere?

Dartmouth...that bastion of intellectual activity. Lol! Actively known in my line of work as one of the "fake ivy's."

Edited February 22 by Tugu

[golfdad1]

Many schools were test optional during and after Covid. Some still are, but you know they look at the test scores anyway.

[Golfquant]

3 minutes ago, golfdad1 said:

Many schools were test optional during and after Covid. Some still are, but you know they look at the test scores anyway.

is this true for athletic recruits as well?

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, Tugu said:

Dartmouth...that bastion of intellectual activity. Lol! Actively known my line of work as one of the "fake ivy's."

[golferdad8]

Yale just announced their new "flexible" testing requirement. The logic seems well thought out and worth reading for those interested in academics schools/trends. I suspect many other schools will follow suit. 

 

https://news.yale.edu/2024/02/22/yale-announces-new-test-flexible-admissions-policy#:~:text=After four years with a,to the SAT and ACT.

[mrshinsa]

Bring back the standardized tests, please.  

I'm so annoyed at these $20k college counseling, with all of them passion projects.  

No, I cannot afford to send our kids to Africa to build a drinking well. 

Edited February 23 by mrshinsa

[leezer99]

3 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

Bring back the standardized tests, please.  

I'm so annoyed at these $20k college counseling, with all of them passion projects.  

No, I cannot afford to send our kids to Africa to build a drinking well. 

Who needs an IVY education anymore? I’m starting to think Jeff Probst is onto something. I just paid 8 grand for two dudes to repipe a portion of my house and it only took them five hours. 

[golferdad8]

16 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

Who needs an IVY education anymore? I’m starting to think Jeff Probst is onto something. I just paid 8 grand for two dudes to repipe a portion of my house and it only took them five hours. 

I didn’t go Ivy but I bet I could negotiate them down to $7,900 😂 

[golfortennis]

9 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Who needs an IVY education anymore? I’m starting to think Jeff Probst is onto something. I just paid 8 grand for two dudes to repipe a portion of my house and it only took them five hours. 

 

Supply and demand.  Fewer and fewer people want to do that kind of work, so those who do can charge big bucks.  I'm telling all the youngin's I'm related to learn a trade, and you'll be golden.  Not to mention the other benefits of the ability to be your own boss.

[golferdad8]

1 hour ago, golfortennis said:

 

Supply and demand.  Fewer and fewer people want to do that kind of work, so those who do can charge big bucks.  I'm telling all the youngin's I'm related to learn a trade, and you'll be golden.  Not to mention the other benefits of the ability to be your own boss.

I met a terrific older gentleman while at Pebble & he owned a successful HVAC company. I commented that business must be great, and his response was that he wanted to retire but his kids don't want to the business and he can't find workers who are willing to do the work. The same is true for another fellow at our club who owns a successful drywall company. Although this is a terrific route, being the "boss" has its own headaches. 

 

[mrshinsa]

Let's keep the ball rolling!

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/05/us/brown-university-admission-test-optional.html

 

"Brown University Will Reinstate Standardized Tests for Admission"

[Golfquant]

I had heard that some top academic schools had relaxed their test score (min) requirements for recruits, including for golf

 

I assume those schools had a "test optional" policy for admissions for all students

 

I wonder if min test scores will once again be required for recruits at schools that now require them again

[LawGenius305]

1 hour ago, Golfquant said:

I had heard that some top academic schools had relaxed their test score (min) requirements for recruits, including for golf

 

I assume those schools had a "test optional" policy for admissions for all students

 

I wonder if min test scores will once again be required for recruits at schools that now require them again

What is going on in the world of college academics is not enough kids to fill schools. There is a population reduction within the USA that is beginning to effect Universities getting enough students. Students are money. Not enough students, the schools have to figure out a way to get more on campus.

[leezer99]

9 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:

What is going on in the world of college academics is not enough kids to fill schools. There is a population reduction within the USA that is beginning to effect Universities getting enough students. Students are money. Not enough students, the schools have to figure out a way to get more on campus.

 

This is true. Many school districts are seeing huge decreases year over year in enrollment. (I work with many of them in my line of work) One district I work with is going through a RIF of about 5% of the workforce. 

[tatertot]

9 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:

What is going on in the world of college academics is not enough kids to fill schools. There is a population reduction within the USA that is beginning to effect Universities getting enough students. Students are money. Not enough students, the schools have to figure out a way to get more on campus.

Seriously? The US population has grown by almost 20% since 2020 ... And 13% of the 330+ million are between the ages of 15-24, with a larger percentage than ever going to college. The idea schools can't find students is absurd.

[golferdad8]

I recall seeing that there are 3000 colleges in the US. However, the reality is that most of the college applicants aspire for the top 100-300 schools. Unfortunately, a good chunk of the 3,000 schools don’t provide enough value to justify their tuition. 

[Golfquant]

9 hours ago, tatertot said:

Seriously? The US population has grown by almost 20% since 2020 ... And 13% of the 330+ million are between the ages of 15-24, with a larger percentage than ever going to college. The idea schools can't find students is absurd.

 

Actually the data say otherwise

 

College enrollment peaked in 2010, and college budgets (and the sticker price of tuition) have skyrocketed while the number of students is in secular decline.  Births peaked in 2007, so theoretically the number of college-age students is still increasing but the actual number attending post-secondary is not.

 

https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

 

 

[LawGenius305]

10 hours ago, tatertot said:

Seriously? The US population has grown by almost 20% since 2020 ... And 13% of the 330+ million are between the ages of 15-24, with a larger percentage than ever going to college. The idea schools can't find students is absurd.

Read what @leezer99 said. I wrote the short version of what is happening. US population is not producing enough children to sustain the country. The big population increase has come from immigration whether legal or illegal. Us as a country are not producing enough babies. It will become an epidemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/14/opinion/declining-enrollment.html#:~:text=At least one reason is,colleges are already grappling with.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/u-s-population-growth-has-nearly-flatlined-new-census-data-shows/

 

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23428166/college-enrollment-population-education-crash

 

[Tugu]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ut-austin-reinstate-standardized-test-161115139.html

 

UT Austin bringing back standardised testing. 

[Golfquant]

1 minute ago, Tugu said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ut-austin-reinstate-standardized-test-161115139.html

 

UT Austin bringing back standardised testing. 

what recruiting year will this ultimately impact (if any)?  is 2025 in scope, or starting in 2026?

[Tugu]

10 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

what recruiting year will this ultimately impact (if any)?  is 2025 in scope, or starting in 2026?

No idea. From a applying to UT via golf perspective, if an student/athlete can't get above say 11 or 1200, they better be AMAZING at golf.

Edited March 12 by Tugu

[Golfquant]

45 minutes ago, Tugu said:

No idea. From a applying to UT via golf perspective, if an student/athlete can't get above say 11 or 1200, they better be AMAZING at golf.

Looking at Common Data Set for UT Austin from 2020-2021 (last time they published test scores of incoming freshmen), looks like 25th/75th percentiles were 1220/1450 and 26/33 for SAT and ACT, respectively, so I'd guess a golf recruit would need 1300+/29+ min?

 

https://utexas.app.box.com/s/0q96nlhe3qry51rn0upfl64uoqkygkj6

Edited March 12 by Golfquant

[Tugu]

14 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

Looking at Common Data Set for UT Austin from 2020-2021 (last time they published test scores of incoming freshmen), looks like 25th/75th percentiles were 1220/1450 and 26/33 for SAT and ACT, respectively, so I'd guess a golf recruit would need 1300+/29+ min?

 

https://utexas.app.box.com/s/0q96nlhe3qry51rn0upfl64uoqkygkj6

Hence the better be amazing at golf comment.

 

Isn't a Communications major, 11-1200 SAT alongside a stellar junior golf resume the ticket to UT?

[AC168]

I’ve never heard of test requirements being waved, but the bar (for test scores) is pretty low everywhere if the person is a great athlete.  It’s just that the bar is lower at some places versus others.

[RobS]

On 3/12/2024 at 9:37 AM, Golfquant said:

what recruiting year will this ultimately impact (if any)?  is 2025 in scope, or starting in 2026?

Not specific to UT but in general, minimal, if any, impact on '25.  Some schools have announced dropping test optional in '26 or '27 but there's no consensus yet on where this is going.  

Edited March 14 by RobS

[Golfquant]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-11/harvard-to-reinstate-sat-requirements-following-ivy-league-peers

 

"Harvard University plans to reinstate the SAT or ACT for admissions requirements, following some of its peers in returning to standardized test scores after a pause caused by the pandemic.

The new policy will be for students applying for fall 2025, the school said in a statement on Thursday, backtracking from an earlier decision to remain test optional for several more years."

 

 

[Tugu]

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2024/02/duke-university-undergraduate-admissions-changes-numerical-rating-standardized-testing-essays-covid-test-optional-ai-generated-college-consultants

 

Duke no longer giving numerical rating to standardized testing, essays in undergraduate admissions.

Edited April 11 by Tugu

[Golfquant]

34 minutes ago, Tugu said:

https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2024/02/duke-university-undergraduate-admissions-changes-numerical-rating-standardized-testing-essays-covid-test-optional-ai-generated-college-consultants

 

Duke no longer giving numerical rating to standardized testing, essays in undergraduate admissions.

maybe they could just assign numerical ratings for the standardized tests, but on a curve...to achieve their desired outcome