Unusual bunker situation ...

[tatertot]

Yesterday ... Buddy of mine hits into a deep faced bunker with built up wall in front. Ball is rolling down front face when it hits a rake (please don't leave your rake in these spots) and the ball stops on the face, resting against it. He moves the rake, ball rolls down face. Tries to place ball twice, but it won't stop rolling. What's his next step?

[iacas]

What Rules did you look up to try to answer the question?

 

Did you look at 14.2(e)?

[Schulzmc]

Check out rule 14e.

[tatertot]

Thanks guys ... That was it.

[betarhoalphadelta]

Is a "built up wall in front" part of the general area or part of the bunker? 

 

I believe the answer is general area based on the definition but I'd like to confirm with you gents as you do this more often than I...

 

Quote

 

These are not part of a bunker:

• A lip, wall or face at the edge of a prepared area and consisting of soil, grass, stacked turf or artificial materials,

 

So my understanding would be that the point at which to place the ball would be the nearest point in the general area not nearer the hole where the ball will stay at rest? This might be grassy areas to the sides of the wall, or possibly (depending on topology) even a grassy area on the tee-side of the bunker?

Edited February 22 by betarhoalphadelta

[tatertot]

5 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Is a "built up wall in front" part of the general area or part of the bunker? 

 

I believe the answer is general area based on the definition but I'd like to confirm with you gents as you do this more often than I...

 

So my understanding would be that the point at which to place the ball would be the nearest point in the general area not nearer the hole where the ball will stay at rest? This might be grassy areas to the sides of the wall, or possibly (depending on topology) even a grassy area on the tee-side of the bunker?

It was in the bunker ... so pretty sure the wall doesn't matter. The drop has to stay in the bunker.

[betarhoalphadelta]

40 minutes ago, tatertot said:

It was in the bunker ... so pretty sure the wall doesn't matter. The drop has to stay in the bunker.

 

I guess I read it wrong. My impression of your original post was that the rake was resting on the wall and the ball came to rest on the wall... But once the rake was moved, the ball wouldn't stay on the wall no matter how you try to replace it. 

 

If the ball was resting in the bunker against the rake, then it's easy--must be replaced in the bunker. 

 

------------------------------

 

For everyone else--hypothetically, let's say you're at the Old Course, with those sod walls at the front of a bunker. The ball comes to rest ON the wall surface, being held in place by a movable obstruction (rake). Upon removal, the ball rolls into the bunker and cannot be placed on its original spot without rolling again. 

 

My understanding of the definition is that the sod wall is general area, NOT the bunker, so the ball must be placed in the general area in the closest place no nearer the hole that it will remain at rest.

 

Is that right? 

[Colin L]

8 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

My understanding of the definition is that the sod wall is general area, NOT the bunker, so the ball must be placed in the general area in the closest place no nearer the hole that it will remain at rest.

 

Is that right? 

Yes.  

[betarhoalphadelta]

Thanks!

[iacas]

2 hours ago, tatertot said:

It was in the bunker ... so pretty sure the wall doesn't matter. The drop has to stay in the bunker.

 

You said:

 

10 hours ago, tatertot said:

Yesterday ... Buddy of mine hits into a deep faced bunker with built up wall in front. Ball is rolling down front face when it hits a rake (please don't leave your rake in these spots) and the ball stops on the face, resting against it. He moves the rake, ball rolls down face. Tries to place ball twice, but it won't stop rolling. What's his next step?

 

This implied to a few here that it was not in the bunker, but in the wall/face of the bunker.

 

If it's in sand, 14.2(e) still applies, but your wording may have been a bit unclear.

[rogolf]

Some people refer to a sand-covered, relatively steep, incline as the "face" of the bunker.  The definition in the Rule book clarifies that the "face" of the bunker is outside the edge of the prepared area which contains sand etc.  In the attached photo, the "face" is only the near vertical part nearest the green.  It's hard to get a rake to stay on that part! 

Edited February 23 by rogolf

[tatertot]

10 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Some people refer to a sand-covered, relatively steep, incline as the "face" of the bunker.  The definition in the Rule book clarifies that the "face" of the bunker is outside the edge of the prepared area which contains sand etc.  In the attached photo, the "face" is only the near vertical part nearest the green.  It's hard to get a rake to stay on that part! 

That's where the rake was ... Somebody had stuck it in the angled area of sand leading to a wall.

[tatertot]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

 

You said:

 

 

This implied to a few here that it was not in the bunker, but in the wall/face of the bunker.

 

If it's in sand, 14.2(e) still applies, but your wording may have been a bit unclear.

"Face" and "wall" are 2 different things. Pretty sure we're done here.