Biggest scam in recuiting is preview camps

[kiawah]

Edited for an unintentional double post. Disregard this comment, lol. 

Edited April 23 by kiawah

[kcap]

8 minutes ago, kiawah said:

Maybe so. I was also explicitly referring to top 100 overall since that's what coaches (in my experience) seemed to care most about. I was top 25ish in my state at one point and top 300ish in my grad class and nobody really cared, lol. To be fair I wasn't putting up the scores that were worth caring about often enough.

 

I'm just trying my best to share information that would help most people with a kid/kids themselves who have college golf aspirations and are asking questions. Typically, the kids/parents of kids in the top 100 don't need to ask questions. What they're doing is already more than good enough to play college golf. I apologize if I am misunderstanding my audience here. 

 

I know that people want to play for the top 20 teams. I did. Every competitive junior with the goal of playing in college does. In the spirit of sharing information that would give people like me (good players who can play collegiately but would be wasting their time trying to get the attention of the top 20 programs) an edge, I have disclosed what I think would help them. In my experience, everyone on the outside will try to send you down the same path as the best juniors in the world. It doesn't go all that great for most of them. If you have the ability to be a top 100 junior, then odds are it simply doesn't matter if you go to camp or play AJGAs or start writing poetry for that matter. Teams will want you and want you bad. That was never me. I am just trying to help those who are having a harder time getting recruited to set their priorities in a way that will maximize their chances. That's all.

 

Again, sorry if I misunderstood the context of the original post, but I am of the opinion that these camps are not worth focusing on. My younger brother got a personal invite to a Dartmouth camp, met the coach, got on with him great, and then got the news that he had already given out his only spot to another kid at the camp months before the camp took place. My brother also beat this kid multiple times that week and it didn't change a thing. Just be wary that many of these coaches will hold these camps even after the spots are gone and they are not all open to accepting more players no matter what you do at the camp. 

No need to apologize,  your insights are invaluable.  I know you believe that being a top 100 golfer is this amazing situation.   But TBH - as a top 100 golfer you have a lot of really good choices but the fact of the matter the kids always want their first/top choice.  I know my son would have been disappointed if he had not got his top choice. And thus you are looking for anything that helps to seal the deal.  And for those kids it is not about playing college golf, they know they will play but playing it at the right place which meets their requirements.  

 

I think every kids/parent irrespective of where they are ranked have questions that need to be answered.  Eg. I don't know much about golfing at the amateur level, what tournament do college golfers play over the summer.  I need to some info on that but i have plenty of time to look it up,  does anyone know if there is  a separate forum on wrx about amateur golf?

[kiawah]

Just now, kcap said:

No need to apologize,  your insights are invaluable.  I know you believe that being a top 100 golfer is this amazing situation.   But TBH - as a top 100 golfer you have a lot of really good choices but the fact of the matter the kids always want their first/top choice.  I know my son would have been disappointed if he had not got his top choice. And thus you are looking for anything that helps to seal the deal.  And for those kids it is not about playing college golf, they know they will play but playing it at the right place which meets their requirements.  

 

I think every kids/parent irrespective of where they are ranked have questions that need to be answered.  Eg. I don't know much about golfing at the amateur level, what tournament do college golfers play over the summer.  I need to some info on that but i have plenty of time to look it up,  does anyone know if there is  a separate forum on wrx about amateur golf?

That's totally reasonable, and to be honest I may be suffering from "the grass is always greener" syndrome in thinking that people in a position I always envied wouldn't have questions of their own. Of course they do/should and it is probably shortsighted on my part to think or suggest otherwise. 

 

The only universal truth about this process is that there isn't a ton of great "one-size-fits-all advice." If you're in a great position like it seems like your son was/is, then by all means, I'm sure going to the camp and meeting the coaches will be useful. But for the average-to-good competitive junior, going to those camps means we will be hitting balls next to guys as good as your son, which probably won't help our cases all that much 😉.

 

Not sure about other threads, but many of my teammates were invited to play in prestigious amateur events through playing well in college. Also, a logical place to start would be trying to qualify for state amateur and national amateur events. Different parts of the country seem to have different offerings. On the east coast there are a ton of competitive amateur events. Just really tough to qualify. 

[RmoorePE]

Great thread here. Maybe the best in months. Great perspectives.

 

I am the parent of a middle of the road sophomore. We have some coaches reaching out (small private, directional schools, etc) and it is all very exciting. My daughter's goal is not to be on a top 20 D-1 school, but to play golf competitively where she best fits and will have a travel spot. 

 

I have looked at camps, not so much as for exposure (I feel like that is the promise of something that really is hard to pin down), but to experience the college golf atmosphere and meet other kids like her. That to me would be of value. I'm not sure if any of these camps offer that. She has gone to college camps for basketball and that was really fun for her, meeting the players and the campus life. No intent to play for those colleges, just playing and learning. Is there something like that for golf? I would send her pretty much anywhere, for the experience, with no expectations of "exposure" to a coach. 

 

I think I agree with most of the consensus above, although, coaches aren't "lazy", they are just like you and me. They have a budget of both time and money for recruiting. Human nature is to take the easiest path possible while still doing a good job. If you make it easy for them, you may find yourself getting attention that someone else might deserve, but they didn't start the interaction.

[wegobomber31]

14 hours ago, golferdad8 said:

Many multi day camps end by lunch time while some start at the end of day w evening sessions. I’m not defending but it is possible. 

That wasn’t the case here, as the agenda’s definitely had overlapping items

[wegobomber31]

9 hours ago, kiawah said:

I mean, I'm acting under the impression that no one here is in the top 100. There are only 100 of those in the world, so it's pretty unlikely I'm going to encounter one here. If I am mistaken, my apologies, and I'd like to book a lesson with one of those top 100 fellows whenever they're available. 

 

My advice is directed more towards the non-world beaters like myself when I was being recruited. It's more of a sprint than a marathon. Every weekend that could be spent playing in a tournament needed to be spent on a tournament for me. Being noticed for 5 minutes at a camp wasn't going to change my trajectory. If you're a top 100 player don't listen to me and do whatever you are doing already. Seems like it's working. If not, then you might want to eschew the camps for practice and tournaments. They will serve you better. Last I checked, nobody ever moved up on the rankings on the driving range at a camp, but they certainly did in tournaments. 

well I can tell you for a fact there are parents of top 100 overall, top 20 overall, top 5 in their class, etc contributing to this forum. 
 

I’m leery of the camps in general but my son has done a few 1-2 day camps. It was mostly to get a feel for the coaches and how they operate, all relatively low cost and worthwhile. He’s doing another one this summer. For a kid before June 15th of their junior year, there is some value there. 

[golferdad8]

1 hour ago, wegobomber31 said:

well I can tell you for a fact there are parents of top 100 overall, top 20 overall, top 5 in their class, etc contributing to this forum. 
 

Speaking of top golfers, congrats to Luke Colton on this recent win! 

https://www.terracottainvitational.com/

 

My son's played with him at prior invitationals and great win over many supposedly "better" golfers. 

 

Personally, I'm puzzled at many invitationals as I think many fields are inconsistent and not sure why some are in the tournament.

 

Edited April 24 by golferdad8

[JuniorGolfNut]

As a Dad who went through this a year ago, here are a few additional points: 

 

Preview camps - Coaches say course management and strategy is the weakest part of a player’s game. We all have swing coaches, and some have fitness, mental coaches, etc, but I know my son didn’t get a lot of on-course training which is what these tournament preview camps offer on the same course before a tournament. My son did a few of these camps and his scoring average was 2 strokes better at those tournaments. 

 

This type of “camp” platform exists in every other sport. It’s how coaches do it these days and let’s be honest, 99% of coaches don’t make a lot of money so this gives them a few extra bucks and gives additional time for them to recruit when they perhaps don’t have a big budget. 

 

Tournaments, according to coaches, are not the end-all, be-all, in getting an offer at a school. It’s also about personality and culture fit, as much on the player side, as it is on the coach side. 

 

You are right, for the players in the top 100 of their class…these camps may not be right for them as they will get recruited to the highest ranked schools no matter what. But if they want to get to know the coaches and how they engage with them prior to June 15 when they all call this is the only way. 

 

Recruiting is happening earlier and the only way to speak to a coach prior to June 15^th when coaches come knocking is at a camp. Even on an official visit, a coach is not allowed to interact with a recruit on the course. That can only happen at a camp and I’d rather my son (who was ranked in the top 250 of his class) engage with a coach on the course, rather than them hiding behind a tree at tournament that they may or may not be at. 

 

For the future – the world of junior golf, due to the pandemic, has grown 3x. Same number of spots on teams with 3x number of players for those spots. The depth of talent will increase and the differentiation on paper will be less, so coaches are going to select players above and beyond scores. 

 

The two-day camps are pricey, but I played college golf many years ago and the recruiting process has changed significantly. Hearing directly from the coaches is way more valuable in a general sense than paying a recruiter 15-20x more over a 2-3 year period. Most parents don’t have the college golf background I do so their education on college golf and the recruiting process is extremely limited no matter what their kid’s ranking is. 

 

In the past, these types of camps have been money-grabs. If they weren’t run well, I don’t think this many coaches would get behind it let alone some of the stuffy associations in the golf industry. 

By the way, anyone else see or know about this new rankings system TUGR? https://tugr.org/rankings

[leezer99]

18 hours ago, JuniorGolfNut said:

By the way, anyone else see or know about this new rankings system TUGR? https://tugr.org/rankings

 

[golferdad8]

19 hours ago, JuniorGolfNut said:

 

As a Dad who went through this a year ago, here are a few additional points: 

 

Preview camps - Coaches say course management and strategy is the weakest part of a player’s game. We all have swing coaches, and some have fitness, mental coaches, etc, but I know my son didn’t get a lot of on-course training which is what these tournament preview camps offer on the same course before a tournament. My son did a few of these camps and his scoring average was 2 strokes better at those tournaments. 

 

This type of “camp” platform exists in every other sport. It’s how coaches do it these days and let’s be honest, 99% of coaches don’t make a lot of money so this gives them a few extra bucks and gives additional time for them to recruit when they perhaps don’t have a big budget. 

 

Tournaments, according to coaches, are not the end-all, be-all, in getting an offer at a school. It’s also about personality and culture fit, as much on the player side, as it is on the coach side. 

 

You are right, for the players in the top 100 of their class…these camps may not be right for them as they will get recruited to the highest ranked schools no matter what. But if they want to get to know the coaches and how they engage with them prior to June 15 when they all call this is the only way. 

 

Recruiting is happening earlier and the only way to speak to a coach prior to June 15^th when coaches come knocking is at a camp. Even on an official visit, a coach is not allowed to interact with a recruit on the course. That can only happen at a camp and I’d rather my son (who was ranked in the top 250 of his class) engage with a coach on the course, rather than them hiding behind a tree at tournament that they may or may not be at. 

 

For the future – the world of junior golf, due to the pandemic, has grown 3x. Same number of spots on teams with 3x number of players for those spots. The depth of talent will increase and the differentiation on paper will be less, so coaches are going to select players above and beyond scores. 

 

The two-day camps are pricey, but I played college golf many years ago and the recruiting process has changed significantly. Hearing directly from the coaches is way more valuable in a general sense than paying a recruiter 15-20x more over a 2-3 year period. Most parents don’t have the college golf background I do so their education on college golf and the recruiting process is extremely limited no matter what their kid’s ranking is. 

 

In the past, these types of camps have been money-grabs. If they weren’t run well, I don’t think this many coaches would get behind it let alone some of the stuffy associations in the golf industry. 

By the way, anyone else see or know about this new rankings system TUGR? https://tugr.org/rankings

100% agree w your feedback - we’re glad to have attended camps too. Even if they were not as good as they were advertised, there’s always something to be learned. 

Good luck to your son.