How to build the ultimate fairway finder 2nd tee club going against modern design trends

[Tbone107]

Over the past couple years I have had a revolving door of 2nd tee clubs while not being able to find one that is "built" for what I am looking to do with it. I've tried mini drivers in 11.5 (too low of spin and launched too high on stock swings) numerous traditional 3woods with the latest being the 13.5 F9 tour (too low of spin) and even an apex UW that was bent to 16 degrees (launched a little too high spin was good)

 

I want to find something strong lofted that I can launch low but maintains high spin to help make it as controllable as possible, which goes against all of the design trends today. Being LH and swinging driver in the upper 130's on the course makes what I am looking for a little unique.

 

Does anyone have any idea on what I could look to try next or how I could "build" something that should play that way? Fine with looking at older stuff too as long as I'm not giving up too much in the tech department.

 

Edited April 23 by Tbone107

[Stoc]

sounds like you have tried most things. Only builds that come to mind is a driving iron and/or mini driver build with a full driver head that is on the higher spin side. You mentioned you have tried the 11.5 degree mini and if you're referencing the mini burner, those are lower spin than the majority of retail drivers available from my understanding. Matt liberty golf on youtube just had a good video where he was seeing lower spin with the mini vs his stock driver.

 

First thing that comes to mind is obviously driving iron. If you're swinging it at that speed, spin shouldn't be too much of an issue and can always play a open face / high cut if you have to really spin it or stop it on a green. Otherwise the a short driver build with something like a 10k head (insert you're favorite driver head with high spin here) seems like something you could test. 

 

 

[Tbone107]

47 minutes ago, Stoc said:

sounds like you have tried most things. Only builds that come to mind is a driving iron and/or mini driver build with a full driver head that is on the higher spin side. You mentioned you have tried the 11.5 degree mini and if you're referencing the mini burner, those are lower spin than the majority of retail drivers available from my understanding. Matt liberty golf on youtube just had a good video where he was seeing lower spin with the mini vs his stock driver.

 

First thing that comes to mind is obviously driving iron. If you're swinging it at that speed, spin shouldn't be too much of an issue and can always play a open face / high cut if you have to really spin it or stop it on a green. Otherwise the a short driver build with something like a 10k head (insert you're favorite driver head with high spin here) seems like something you could test. 

 

 

I definitely confirmed the mini spin issue lol, I tried the Brnr and a tour issue 300 mini and they both spun way too low for what I was looking for.

 

I have tried a very low lofted DI with a little success but moved on since in LH they all come so bulky and have to have so much added offset to get them to the low loft which I don't like.. I haven't tried the two drivers yet, I have avoided it, because I actually am confident with my driver ever since switching to a krank fire head a year ago and have though that adding a second would have me second guessing it too often vs. having the clear delineation of having a mini/3wood/4wood/DI.

 

Ideally I want something in the 11.5-13 degree range with a super high cg to help with my high toe miss and add spin for better accuracy. Just don't know if there is something out there that fits that that I haven't tried yet or if maybe a low launching 4wd loft might be closer to getting me what I'm looking for.

 

I'm not looking for the spin for stopping power, never plan on hitting this club at anytime but off the tee, strictly for helping with accuracy and the club for shorter reachable par 4s. 

Edited April 23 by Tbone107

[SheriffBooth]

Sim2 Ti or Stealth Plus Rocket 3 - maybe cut it down 1/2" and then tinker with the settings?

[Tbone107]

12 minutes ago, SheriffBooth said:

Sim2 Ti or Stealth Plus Rocket 3 - maybe cut it down 1/2" and then tinker with the settings?

Those are both low spin no? 

[WristySwing]

TSR2+ 13* and move the heavy weight cartridge to the back. Set the loft sleeve as necessary (lowest is 12.25*).  

 

https://www.titleist.com/product/tsr2%2B-fairway/660AC.html

 

Ping G425 LST set down to 13* will also work.

[Urb]

Paradym or Epic Super Hybrid 2h.  I have the Epic, it for sure launches lower than my 16.5* 3w.  I play my SH at 16, can push it down to 15.

 

Off the deck, it's not as good as a fwy wood but since you don't care, might be an option to go test.

[kiawah]

For me I just got a Titleist TSR2 7 wood with my favorite hybrid shaft I could think of (Oban Devotion). Has gone perfect for me. A bit spinny and goes pretty high. Balloons a bit in the wind unless you're trying to flight it a bit. But nothing I've used has ever gone straighter. I don't have to use it a ton but when I do it's like picking up a ball and dropping it in the fairway 200-220 yards out. If you're really after an automatic tee club, that's what I'd propose. It helps that it's also practical off the deck. 

 

Runner-up would be the original TaylorMade UDI or even the RSI UDI. The new offerings are a bit too "hybrid-y" for me. The OG UDI refused to produce anything but low straight bullets for me. Not quite as great off the deck but an awesome club. May even go on eBay and try to find a new one since the little strip of metal with the logo on it that sits in the cavity has started to fall off. But an awesome awesome club. 

[Cwebb]

Ping G5 13* 3 wood

[etodd]

I'm no +Hcp, but this just sings 17-19 degree 2i/3i to me. I've started hitting my Srixon 2i off the tee so much on holes that I only need about 240/250 on. Beautiful low draws that really poke out there but can try and cut one if I need to spin it and hold a green. Lots of good suggestions in the thread - but it may be hard to dial in the spin/specs you're looking for without a ton of testing which seems like you've already started. Just a thought! Also, Srixon DI's look very good in the offset dept. I play literally no offset in my irons right now, and honestly it doesn't bug me at all. T200 2i/3i should be pretty nice behind the ball too. You could even go super strong and bend it 2+ degrees weak for less offset.

Edited April 23 by etodd

[Tbone107]

22 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

TSR2+ 13* and move the heavy weight cartridge to the back. Set the loft sleeve as necessary (lowest is 12.25*).  

 

https://www.titleist.com/product/tsr2%2B-fairway/660AC.html

 

Ping G425 LST set down to 13* will also work.

The TSR2+ has been on my radar, but have always been a little hestiant to get a club and move the CG all the way back as I feel like that makes controlling launch much more difficult.. 

[Tbone107]

19 minutes ago, Cwebb said:

Ping G5 13* 3 wood

Can't seem to find any 13's anywhere.. Just curious, what made you give this reccomendation since its pretty dated? deep face high cg?

[Tbone107]

14 minutes ago, etodd said:

I'm no +Hcp, but this just sings 17-19 degree 2i/3i to me. I've started hitting my 2i off the tee so much on holes that I only need about 240/250 on. Beautiful low draws that really poke out there. Lots of good suggestions in the thread - but seems like you haven't tried the iron approach although it may be hard to dial in the spin/specs you're looking for. Just a thought!

I have a 19 degree 3 iron that I have and hit a good bit off the tee with stingers.. and i210 3 iron that I absolutely love the ability to launch low and keep spin high.. Assuming CG properties of the i210 help here as I had a zx7 3 iron that was a much harder to flight and spin was too low.

 

Just looking for a club anywhere between it and my driver.

[SheriffBooth]

49 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

Those are both low spin no? 

 

The original SIM was, but I think the SIM2 and the Stealth both had more discretionary weight in the rear to add spin back in.  I'd suggest the Stealth2 Plus, but they didn't make a Rocket version of that head.

[Cwebb]

8 minutes ago, Tbone107 said:

Can't seem to find any 13's anywhere.. Just curious, what made you give this reccomendation since its pretty dated? deep face high cg?

 

Yeah, relatively deep face and no extra tech to lower the COG.  There's a couple on eBay

Edited April 23 by Cwebb

[Valtiel]

Have you ever tried the OG Ping Rapture 13* 3-wood?

[Tbone107]

1 minute ago, Cwebb said:

 

Yeah, relatively deep face and no extra tech to lower the COG.  There's a couple on eBay

In LH? If so, please send the link.

[Tbone107]

1 minute ago, Valtiel said:

Have you ever tried the OG Ping Rapture 13* 3-wood?

Lol I've been looking for one, but have never seen one in lefty pop up online. I see the other version with the lime green on it but not the expensive one. I did see a lot of the marketing on that head was to drive the cg lower but I would bet its higher than a lot of the clubs today..

[SheriffBooth]

Here's this one in Ireland right now.  These clubs are pretty rare.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/276435986609?itmmeta=01HW5YJABZTYT0SS2C0QYAKMT5&hash=item405cde68b1:g:~H8AAOSwMjNmJtd6&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwJyWFK6aQaSNLVue7j%2FO2NKRJ%2Bnr4hVw46rHzTYS5ZA4WH1pmC6C9m%2FjbtQFHpe2PwiuTvlBIB5mpw%2BSyT4nsItH27EsgFnpuB5t5fVS8bh24yo8pJv5G0ztVlFtSaOc%2FHaFtWsxYPPQ88%2FmmUhf0GXR3vP9EY291L5Jsjm6NN9Q0TiTfsE4DQjmWNwG0g4mHvghF2Qw87PnoC7JOOduoR5kJzNAKVugeed4%2Bsij6kYSz3z4FaBoeTXHu2WkS5t9lA%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR4ymyb7hYw

 

[AdamMH]

Get yourself an older 1-iron with a really high COG. Think MacGregor diamondback, or a reverse muscle design like an Australian Blade. Only partially kidding, guaranteed to launch low and with good delivery conditions might spin enough for you.

Tangent - do you think your ball is a good fit for the rest of your clubs/game?

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, Tbone107 said:

Over the past couple years I have had a revolving door of 2nd tee clubs while not being able to find one that is "built" for what I am looking to do with it. I've tried mini drivers in 11.5 (too low of spin and launched too high on stock swings) numerous traditional 3woods with the latest being the 13.5 F9 tour (too low of spin) and even an apex UW that was bent to 16 degrees (launched a little too high spin was good)

 

I want to find something strong lofted that I can launch low but maintains high spin to help make it as controllable as possible, which goes against all of the design trends today. Being LH and swinging driver in the upper 130's on the course makes what I am looking for a little unique.

 

Does anyone have any idea on what I could look to try next or how I could "build" something that should play that way? Fine with looking at older stuff too as long as I'm not giving up too much in the tech department.

 

What spin and launch did this heads deliver since you mean its too low?

[third-times-a-charm]

Callaway Mavrik Max 3+ Wood

 

Thank me later.

[Tbone107]

27 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

What spin and launch did this heads deliver since you mean its too low?

Spin sits in the 2500-2800 rpm slot a lot of the time unless I try to hit a pretty big cut. I think the problem may lie in the fact that with this 2nd tee club I feel the most comfortable making a pretty steep path into the ball to trap it and work it both ways, so am delofting it pretty good at impact.

 

I swing this club 133 on avg. and the more speed I've picked up in my swing the more I've found it necessary to keep to ball closer to the ground when making sure I'm hitting a fairway, but when hitting that shot I feel like spin drops too low because of the delivered loft that I need to hit the shot and that impairs my accuracy and ability to shape the ball like I would like to. Hitting tight low draws are VERY difficult for me

 

The only time I make a more "normal" swing is when it is used for a reachable par 4 with a forced carry but have never felt as comfortable hitting a fairway finder that way.

 

Edited April 23 by Tbone107

[Tbone107]

34 minutes ago, AdamMH said:

Get yourself an older 1-iron with a really high COG. Think MacGregor diamondback, or a reverse muscle design like an Australian Blade. Only partially kidding, guaranteed to launch low and with good delivery conditions might spin enough for you.

Tangent - do you think your ball is a good fit for the rest of your clubs/game?

Should have included this, but not an ideal choice for what I'm trying to do here, but I play the left dash Pro V1x.

 

I don't want to change ball as it is perfect for my driver, which I want to fit my ball around. Just want to do the best I possibly can with this club with it.

[RolandofGilead]

4 hours ago, Tbone107 said:

I want to find something strong lofted that I can launch low but maintains high spin to help make it as controllable as possible, which goes against all of the design trends today.

 

Join me and get a Titleist 975D. Seriously! They are just slightly smaller than the BRNR Mini but with lower launch, higher spin, and neutral flight characteristics i.e. not fade biased. The Mini driver craze is basically recreating the 975 drivers (but making worse versions of them IMO).

 

I would recommend a steel shaft as well but it’s really hard to find X flex in .335” tip diameter these days. I’m not as fast as you but at 110 mph and +4* attack I get 160 mph ball speed, 2500 rpm, 13* launch and 105’ peak. You will get more spin with your speed and it’s lovely to take some off to keep the ball down with these old heads. If nothing else it’s a cheap experiment.

Edited April 23 by RolandofGilead

[Tbone107]

4 minutes ago, RolandofGilead said:

Join me and get a Titleist 975D. Seriously! They are just slightly smaller than the BRNR Mini but with lower launch, higher spin, and neutral flight characteristics. The Mini driver craze is basically recreating the 975 drivers (but making worse versions of them IMO).

 

I would recommend a steel shaft as well but it’s really hard to find X flex in .335” tip diameter these days. I’m not as fast as you but at 110 mph and +4* attach I get 160 mph ball speed, 2500 rpm, 13* launch and 105’ peak. You will get more spin with your speed and it’s lovely to take claims off to keep the ball down with these old heads. If nothing else it’s a cheap experiment.

It's a little old for generally what I'd want to do, but might be the best option lol.. 

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, Tbone107 said:

Spin sits in the 2500-2800 rpm slot a lot of the time unless I try to hit a pretty big cut. I think the problem may lie in the fact that with this 2nd tee club I feel the most comfortable making a pretty steep path into the ball to trap it and work it both ways, so am delofting it pretty good at impact.

 

I swing this club 133 on avg. and the more speed I've picked up in my swing the more I've found it necessary to keep to ball closer to the ground when making sure I'm hitting a fairway, but when hitting that shot I feel like spin drops too low because of the delivered loft that I need to hit the shot and that impairs my accuracy and ability to shape the ball like I would like to. Hitting tight low draws are VERY difficult for me

 

The only time I make a more "normal" swing is when it is used for a reachable par 4 with a forced carry but have never felt as comfortable hitting a fairway finder that way.

 

OK...im NOT up to date with what options there is out there, so this is strictly a theoretical approach.

A Deep face 2W who come with rather high weighted screw weight's as standard
Remove all screw weight from the sole, add weight back by using hot melt, but NOT on the sole, but on the crown (inside), and as far forward you can get (almost at the face)
That will lift VCOG, and add spin by taking advantage of vertical gear effects,

We normally have the opposite problem for high club speed players (to much spin), so i''m simply reversing what we do to get spin down.

When i suggest to add hot melt forward, its both to lower dynamic loft (launch), but also to reduce MOI value so we get a boost to vertical gear effect by less resistance to twist. With a HDCP on the sunny side of zero, forgiveness is most likely not what you look for, but "playability". 

If you have a low lofted deep face wood, try to remove the screw weights from the sole.
Put some duct tape om the crown (to protect it), add lead tape on top (in the front), and try that off to see what you can get out of it.

[HeftyLefty5]

Lefty here kinda going through the same thing right now. I'm testing having a second driver in the bag but with a mix. Being lefty and playing courses that i swear are made for slicing righties I don't have a draw club at the top of the bag. I've tried traditional 3, 5, and 7 woods which are good in their own right but i switched my 3 wood shaft that is -1/2" from standard onto an old driver head and am seeing good results. Its weird looking at the bag seeing two drivers but if i can make it work why the heck not. So my bag goes qi10LS, 12* rogue max d driver head on 3 wood shaft, 4 iron.

[Tbone107]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

OK...im NOT up to date with what options there is out there, so this is strictly a theoretical approach.

A Deep face 2W who come with rather high weighted screw weight's as standard
Remove all screw weight from the sole, add weight back by using hot melt, but NOT on the sole, but on the crown (inside), and as far forward you can get (almost at the face)
That will lift VCOG, and add spin by taking advantage of vertical gear effects,

We normally have the opposite problem for high club speed players (to much spin), so i''m simply reversing what we do to get spin down.

When i suggest to add hot melt forward, its both to lower dynamic loft (launch), but also to reduce MOI value so we get a boost to vertical gear effect by less resistance to twist. With a HDCP on the sunny side of zero, forgiveness is most likely not what you look for, but "playability". 

If you have a low lofted deep face wood, try to remove the screw weights from the sole.
Put some duct tape om the crown (to protect it), add lead tape on top (in the front), and try that off to see what you can get out of it.

Very good info Howard, thanks.. is there a limit to how much melt you would put on the crown once I dial in the amount of weight I can remove? I only ask because I usually play clubheads with a good amount of added weight (6-8 grams) and didn't know if I should be cautious of how much I'm putting up there.

 

 

[Mike_C]

3 hours ago, WristySwing said:

Ping G425 LST set down to 13* will also work.

 

I have one, and that is how I have it set.  Absolute low launching cannon, but still spins enough for me.