How would you play this hole?

[MBAndrews21]

This is the 17th hole at RTJ Capitol Hill - Senator Course in Prattville, Alabama. I am playing a qualifier here and I thought it would be a neat discussion about strategy. It's a par 5 that's listed at 475 yards. Images are attached below.

 

The big question is do you go for the green? If not where do you lay up?

 

Or do you hit your tee shot up the 10th fairway, where the 200 (285) marker is on the left side? 

 

The entire 10th hole (on left side of screen) and the green is uphill a good bit from the tee box. The tee box is the lowest point on the aerial image.

 

Here is the link to the hole on google maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uYHKicjnp8z62uUy7

 

 

 

[Socrates]

I wouldn't be surprised that the 10th fairway would be OB for the event.  Blind shot into incoming players is never good. 

The object of a qualifier is to qualify.  Don't let one hole take you out.  Play it as a 3 shot hole and give yourself a putt at birdie.  Par at worst.

[PracticeSwinger]

5 hours ago, MBAndrews21 said:

This is the 17th hole at RTJ Capitol Hill - Senator Course in Prattville, Alabama. I am playing a qualifier here and I thought it would be a neat discussion about strategy. It's a par 5 that's listed at 475 yards. Images are attached below.

 

The big question is do you go for the green? If not where do you lay up?

 

Or do you hit your tee shot up the 10th fairway, where the 200 (285) marker is on the left side? 

 

The entire 10th hole (on left side of screen) and the green is uphill a good bit from the tee box. The tee box is the lowest point on the aerial image.

 

Here is the link to the hole on google maps: https://maps.app.goo.gl/uYHKicjnp8z62uUy7

If there's no internal OB left on the 10th, I'd go that way (that could/would create chaos though during the round, no?)... takes both 'hazards' spot out of the equation for a big mishit especially late in the round with pressure on, 10th fairway and rough seems large enough for a good drive there - and a perfect angle for a 200ish go-for-the-green distance from there

[SNIPERBBB]

In a scramble, probably going up #10. Playing by myself, 3w/2 hybrid to the fat part of the first fairway. Distance wise its a gettable par 5 but its a very risky approach.

[Sean124]

There are big numbers lurking on that hole.
 

I’m probably hitting 3 iron, playing the 2nd to 120ish yards and hoping for a decent look at birdie. 

[gioguy21]

full send down the left - fescue or not. hope for a kick off the hill -- smooth wedge to a tasty 10' and double circles gets the square.

*in reality, 3 utility down the right, and go for the green with a middle/long iron depending what's left. 

 

 

[mat562]

Assuming driver up the other fairway is a no no, it would be a couple of long/longish irons for me. Ideally, I'd be playing for a spot somewhere between the 190 and 230 markers in the fairway.

 

If the wind's strongly against I'd be erring a bit further right into the throat of the fairway followed by a layup to whichever fat part of the fairway was appropriate and took the two left bunkers out of play. Either way, I'm avoiding the pond and taking something that won't roll out into the junk through the fairway from the tee. Not much point wafting away with a driver into the narrow part next to the fescue for me. Big hitters will be savouring a wedge approach, but it's a big carry for me unless it's significantly downwind, and it's bringing a lot of potential trouble into play. A conservative tee shot with a longish iron leaves me with a similar shot for my approach, both of which I'm comfortable with. 

 

Worst case scenario I've got a reasonable shot at a birdie. If it's flat calm, or downwind,, I'm up somewhere by, or on, the green in two, having been at minimal risk of mishap. Not really box office stuff, but I'd play the percentages, as it's a funny hole with angles, hazards and awkwardness along its entire length.

[Ajgaguy83]

Yes, the internal OB on 10 is something that really needs to be investigated. As others have mentioned, I can't believe going down 10 wouldn't be internal OB as way to protect players and keep play moving, but if not, that's the route I'd take. Otherwise, long iron to the middle of the fairway and a three shot hole.

[vandyfan]

From the tee shot on 17, hitting it down 10 would be completely blind. See this rendered view from google earth pro (if you don't have google earth pro....what are we even doing here?):

 

 

Tee shot to primary landing area is 16 ft downhill, fairway tilts right to left landing zone at 235 = 82 yds wide, a draw would work well there. 

 

 

Your view from dead center of that landing spot looks like this, not a fun shot:

 

 

Personally, I think the Capitol Hill RTJ's are overly contrived and not fun to play but this hole in particular I think the SAFEST option is the following:

 

 

First shot is 220 out to the right a bit. If you aren't going for it in two (and why would you) then why take on extra off the tee? Second shot is 160 to the middle layup zone (41 yds wide to land it in and 45 yds deep, an easy shot for most anyone). That leaves 130-115 yd shot in for your 3rd. Probably making AT WORST a bogey here but should also have a chance to wedge it decently close and have a putt at a birdie so long as the pin isn't back right. 

 

 

 

 

[Geomane]

I’ve played here. I went down the 10th fairway and was a short iron away for my second shot. That’s definitely the play if allowed during your tournament. 

[vandyfan]

1 minute ago, Geomane said:

I went down the 10th fairway and was a short iron away for my second shot.

 

Jesus! How far did you hit your drive? As an example, here is a 320 yd drive, which leaves 160 yds in. That is a HUGE tee shot and a huge short iron unless I am missing something? 

 

 

[Geomane]

4 minutes ago, vandyfan said:

 

Jesus! How far did you hit your drive? As an example, here is a 320 yd drive, which leaves 160 yds in. That is a HUGE tee shot and a huge short iron unless I am missing something? 

 

 

Lol we might have had a little tailwind that day. I hit my driver pretty good though, 300 to 320. That second shot is downhill too. 

[Cliffy2020]

Aggresive in red - Pitching is a strength and if I hit a hot 4W off the tee I’d consider going for it for sure.

Conservative in blue - would be the safest/easiest way to avoid bogey.

 

NO way I’m hitting blind up 10 (that has lost ball written all over it)

 

Of course, wind strength & direction would play a huge role in decision making too.

 

Fun hole!

 

EDIT: Looking at the yardages more closely (and considering the tee shot is slightly downhill) 4W could get me in trouble long so 7W would actually be best.

Edited May 15 by Cliffy2020
Math

[MBAndrews21]

Thanks for all the responses.

 

As @vandyfan mentioned, the shot up the 10th fairway is blind and it's uphill a good bit as well. It's not entirely obvious that that is an option until you look at google earth. I'd be a little worried to hit that shot for many reasons. 

 

There are 96 players in a shotgun start so it would be absolute chaos if people tried hitting it up there. Oh and there aren't any trees on this course so this certainly won't be the only hole where people try to cut corners.

Edited May 15 by MBAndrews21

[iutodd]

My main thought is that I want to avoid the fairway bunkers that are around the 100 yard marker.  And that I generally want to leave the shortest third shot possible if I'm not going for it.  

 

My worry about aiming out right with a hybrid/DI (as described by @vandyfan) is that it's easy to bail right in that situation given the hazard - the last thing you want to do is "play safe" and then hit it in the hazard.  Then you're left with like...a 180-200 yard layup shot from the right rough which can get hairy quickly.

 

The main landing area, again as described by @vandyfan, is pretty wide - so I would aim for that area with whatever club flies that distance in that area - he describes it as ~235 yards - to me that is a shot you should be able to take on with how much "width" you have in the fairway there.  Aim at the first fairway bunker with a club you know can't reach it and swing aggressively?  

 

I would then probably think that the front left green side bunker isn't a terrible spot to be for my third.  The one further to the left sort of in the hillside/gorse area, is probably not good but if the pin is in the back it probably wouldn't be horrible.  It sort of depends on how thick the rough is but that hillside doesn't look terrible either.  If the pin is in the back I take a club that can't quite get to the bunker further to the left and then aim at it.  If I have a front pin I would probably take something that will clear the two fairway bunkers but not come that close to the green side bunkers.  I do not want to be in the further left bunker with a front pin.  

 

[MBAndrews21]

The qualifier was on this course last year as well. 

The players that qualified averaged 4.9 on the 17th hole. That shows me that it's really not a hole to get aggressive on...par is a good score.

[Dpavs]

17 minutes ago, iutodd said:

My main thought is that I want to avoid the fairway bunkers that are around the 100 yard marker.  And that I generally want to leave the shortest third shot possible if I'm not going for it.  

 

 

 

 

 

Hard to say without actually walking it I guess but I was thinking this too so I would not be trying to do a 100 yard lay up. Two options in my mind depending on comfort level.

1. Lay up to around 125.

2. Lay up to 40-50.

 

*Noting that two shots to the green is not in my bag so layup would be my only option.

 

 

Edited May 15 by Dpavs

[j.b.newton]

Do you get a practice round?  Whats your driver carry and accuracy?

 

I've played this course many times and how depends on which tees, whats the wind, how wet/dry, and how confident/how risky you are.

 

The 290 carry is slightly down hill and you have a bank left to play it into.  If its dry - it bounces out.  If its wet - good luck finding it as there is a water run off area near there.  Also, if its dry and moving too fast to the right - you are dropping.  But dropping 3 140 out on a par 5 is the same as a lay up (almost).   

 

Most days its a 225 to the right at the little pot bunker, 160ish to the left bunker and a wedge in depending on where they put the pin.  Long is dead and there is no safety behind the green.

Edited May 15 by j.b.newton

[grochol17]

If you're in a good spot, go with @vandyfan's plan and play the hole conservatively as a 3 shot par 5.  Inside of 150 for your third you should be able to give yourself at least a look at birdie. 

 

If you *need* a birdie, the aggressive play would be something at that building on the left that won't go more than 250.  You'll leave yourself with about 200 to the green, which should be doable for anyone playing in a qualifier.  From there I'd play for the middle of the green pretty much no matter where the pin is located to keep trouble out of play.  Two putts for a 4 could gain you almost a stroke on the field.