Taylormade R9?

[papichulosteve]

i think everyone needs to stop hating on taylormade. every company given the chance would pump out as much product as they can. the more stuff they have to sell the more money they will make and in the end that is all that really matters for a company. no company is above this...not even titleist....remind me how long has the 905 t and s been out and everyone is already clamoring for the r. i think taylormade just offeres a variety of drivers for the variety of golfers that out today. they try not to focus on one style of golfer but try and cover all their bases and make everyone happy. true its tough to keeo up with the latest and greatest from them but some people really don't need the R7 425 tp when the 580 XD or R5 would suit their game better. you just have to be wise wiht your purchases and realize every golf club is going to go down in value....except uber rare camerons and the such.

 

and getting back to topic the R9 might be real but i don't think anyone is going to see it until 07 or 08

[cjdrcc]

Alright guys, I think I found the release dates. Tomorrow, R9, next week R11, week after that R13, which puts us at about R50ish for next year. :) :blink:

[hungrymarine]

I don't understand what the fuss is about. Are you people in the business world? A good business model is not to sit on your laurels every 3 years and hope to make a profit every once in a while. The equipment manufacturers concentrate on the 3 clubs with the highest turnover (drivers, putters, and wedges) because the golfers out there continue to buy year after year. The only people pissed are the ego maniacs that need to show off their latest club to everyone and feel the need to buy all the time. Oh...the new R9 is out....I have to buy it.....ah ah I hate TaylorMade!!!

 

No one is telling you to buy something when it comes out and if you're buying equipment hoping that to trade it with a high resale value....well I have some great land in Florida you might be interested in. Even a brand new Titleist 905 is worth half the price on ebay when it was released for retail just a year ago.

 

The big advantage of the high turnover is that consumers get a great deal on great clubs that are only a year old or more.

[mahanate]

Have to agree with the TM side here- unless you buy golf clubs as an investment (in which case you may need mental help more than you need a swing coach), I don't see the downside for the consumer. The way I look at it, it is TM's prerogative to release as many drivers are they want. From my perspective, there is a better chance that one of them will be just right for me, and I can ignore the rest. It also improves the chance that I can get "last years model" at a discounted price, which is all good for me.

 

If you buy drivers because you want the newest one on the block, it is not TM's fault- you're the kind of consumer they are trying to take advantage of, and the kind I'm thankful for !!

 

Either way, you can't argue with success- they are #1 on the retail market because they likely appeal to all segments (the tour clones, the equipment hos, the picky ones and the bargain hunters).

[slicer365]

I don't understand what the fuss is about. Are you people in the business world? A good business model is not to sit on your laurels every 3 years and hope to make a profit every once in a while.

 

 

No, a good business model is to let people get used to what they are playing and then in a few years tweak the technology, and release a new club. Kind of like PING and Titleist, more so with Titleist. Everybody is on pins and needles waiting for the 905r to release, and the week of the release, Titleist will be the talk of the town. Pretty soon this entire board will be flooded with people commenting on how cool this new driver is. Now that's a good business model.

 

[

[italianstallion]

Okay, heres a good business model for ya.

 

This year, Microsoft and Sony have/are releasing their new systems, the first time since 2000. Lets take a look at how the market is reacting... Oh yeah, X Box 360 sold out in every store within 5 mintues of opening with the system this holiday season. Microsoft is making/already making tons of money because people want to update their old X box. When the PS3 comes out, the same thing would happen.

 

Take this situation. Sony decides to come out with a new system every single year, even two times a year. Chances are, not many people will buy over their old model due to the fact that not much could've changed in that time. Saturation of market=decresed demand=less money. So, that's why they waited so long. People now see how much better the technology has gotten over the past few years, so they have reason to buy.

 

Where does this fit in with the topic? Every part. A company releases a new driver, lets the market soak it up for a year or two, then releases another one with more technology later on. All TM is doing with the R7 now is gradually increasing the head size, on purpose. This way, they can always advertise the newest one as being the better one.

 

Let me know if this doesn't make sense. To me, it does, and I'd be happy to clarify for anyone.

[gslabbert]

You guys have all missed the point. It is not about clubs or golf, it is about profit. TM, Titleist and others are not in the golf club business (though we like to think they are) they are in the money business, the clubs are just a means to that end.

 

Gavin

:blink: :)

[hungrymarine]

Actually your business model doesn't make sense for the golf industry. We are talking high turnover products with high demand for innovation.

 

Microsoft gains absolutely no profit on the system themselves....actually it has been documented that they lose money on every system sold. If they released a new console every year...they will tank and their profits margins would go into the red. The only way to make money is to sell games...a lot of games. You release as many games as possible hoping that consumers will buy so you make a profit. The only reason to release a new console is because consumers are buying a competitve product instead of yours because of the increase in technology. So you take the profit hit and R&D investment for long term gain.....profits from games sold.

 

This has nothing to do with the golf industry. Where profits are made by products actually sold. If you sold drivers only you need to sell this product to make money. Lets say you only made one model every 3 years...if there is high consumer demand for your product for 3 years then you are golden. Unfortunately, another manufacturer will produce a new product and the demand for yours will decline.

 

Titleist's business is the golf ball and that is their bread and butter. Fortunately, golf balls are a consumable product and people buy them on a continuous basis. There is no need for Titleist to compete head to head vs Callaway or Taylormade on a club for club basis and they do not need to invest as much R&D to release a new product every year. Taylormade on the other hand needs to sell clubs to make money...lots of clubs. They will invest heavily on R&D to bring a unique product to market so consumers will buy on a continuous basis.

 

If you only sold one club to a consumer every 3 years..you better have an alternate means to make money over the interim. Otherwise, you need to sell your main product regularly. Fortunately for Taylormade, many golfers change clubs like they change underwear to find that elusive holy grail.

[italianstallion]

Why on Earth would Microsoft sell something if it means they lose money? That makes no sense at all.

 

As for the rest of your post talking about competition, lets see. Other golf companies come out with stuff every 2 years, vs. TM coming out with something every 4 months. So, justifying their marketing because of competion also makes no sense. How do companies like Cleveland stay afloat?

[hungrymarine]

Read the following links:

 

http://www.wininsider.com/news/?2980

 

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/06/news_6127039.html

 

People buy consoles to buy games not for the console itself. Microsoft sold a lot of Xboxes just because of Halo. People will not upgrade unless they see some benefit...better games. Playstation sales are traditionally strong because of the strong game line up. They do not feel pressured to come out with something new right away because of market demand for their games. Does it make sense to sell an initally money losing product for long term profits? Yes, especially since video game sales are greater than movie sales in this country.

 

How can you say that other companies come out with products every two years? Cleveland....hmmm lets see...launcher 460, launcher comp 460, Ti460, HiBore. Callaway....BB Ti, BB 454, FT-3, X460. Competition breeds competition.

 

Cleveland itself started out as a small company and it still is. They started out as wedge specialists and they still are to a degree. But they are becoming bigger and they need diversification so they are concentrating on drivers more which are extremely high turnover items and lead to greater sales and profits. Callaway needs diversification so they purchased Top-Flite to go into the ball market since these are extremely high turnover items. Titleist on the other hand concentrates on ball development but for diversification they sell clubs. Titleist has such strong name recognition that they don't need to put money into advertising and sell by name strength alone.

[jmconnel]

Well Taylormade is ripping you off by not including the wrench kit or weights with the clubs. I do not believe that guys that have the R7 are going to buy the rescue dual or any of the other adjustable weight clubs. And what does the customer do when they pick up the rescue dual with the 2 grams in the toe and 14 grams in the heel. They think they are gonna hook the crap out of it because people have egos and think they are gonna snap hook it every time and then they spend their extra $50-60 on a wrench and weights to straighten the thing out.

 

The thing i hate about TM is from a retail point of view is that we will have their closeout drivers for the end of time. How are u gonna justify to the customer that the new driver is better than the 4 others you have on closeout that have been produced in the last 2 years.

 

I also feel that if TM is going to ruin the golf industry, because I do not think the innovation is really there for each new model. I mean anyone can make a bigger version of the driver, but that isnt pushing towards anything new. Nike and MacGregor are at least trying to create something that we havent seen before. But TM is going to make their 460 r7, and how much different is the r5 tp and the 460 other than the shaft and that TP logo. Oh and the weights because god forbid they include any. What else is in the line. Lets see a Titanium version of the r7 fw and a steel version of the fw. They figured out something was successful for the guys that could afford the TP version they could do a cheaper model for different price points. What is up with them putting the vista pro 80 in the TP. That is a $25 shaft, but well worth the $100 upcharge.

 

It seems to me they are just delaying the inevitable and just kinda producing fluff using the "successful" R7 name. Customers DO THINK that they are making a big investment in a driver and expect the value to be there when they are done with them. Maybe its just the guys on here that can afford all of the tour stuff and pay rediculous amounts of money for it, so i guess the retail prices aren't that bad. But for the majority, clubs are a huge purchase and resell value does affect it. I tell customers that if they want to make the most off their clubs sell it on ebay.

 

This has been my opinion for a while about TM and i think if you work in the retail world and see a guy that just bought a TM driver 3 months ago and the prices keep dropping, its pretty hard to deal with it. I really feel like i am stealing from them because TM stuff is worth nothing.

[spider]

I think it comes down to this. If the consumer is willing to purchase new drivers every time they release a new one, two or three versions :) who can fault the company for that. However, I think this is short term thinking.

 

Taylormade is a quality company but IMO they are acting as if this is their "15 minutes" and they have to wallow it now before it vanishes.

 

I used to be a huge TM fan. I still like their clubs as witnessed by my 510TP, but as a consumer I have lost confidence in their products. I feel if they can come out with a new driver so fast after the last one... was the previous driver released too soon to market? IE. maybe they didn't test it long enough and do the necessary R&D before releasing.

 

I know technology is constantly improving but really I have enough issues buying a computer and week later the technology is old. Do I need that feeling in my Golf equipment?

 

Don't get me wrong I love new equipment but maybe something in between Titleist's and Taylormade's marketing would give me more confidence as a consumer that I just purchased the best a manufacturer has to offer.

 

On second thought maybe I'll just stay behind the curve and buy last "weeks" model each time and save a few $$$$.

[papichulosteve]

 

This has been my opinion for a while about TM and i think if you work in the retail world and see a guy that just bought a TM driver 3 months ago and the prices keep dropping, its pretty hard to deal with it. I really feel like i am stealing from them because TM stuff is worth nothing.

 

so i guess you have no problem giving people their full money back when they trade in those taylormade clubs right???

 

i work retail and have seen my share of people b**** and complain about their clubs not being worth much but thats how it works....you use a club for a while trade it in and take a hit and not get a lot back on it. pretty sure thats how it works for cars and you don't see people complaining about that.

 

if so many people have a problem buying a taylormade club becuase they have too many products out then DON'T BUY IT!!! but by looking at their sales it seems not a lot of people are taking this advice and they seem to be doing just fine with or without people complaining.

[maxpower88]

james, just because people are not really over enthusiastic about your r9, doesnt mean you have to directly compare and insult them to cleveland. both companies make great clubs, i would play either or in a heart beat.

[sync71]

The good thing about Titleist is that they bring clubs out when they are ready and tested and perfected by the best. Not bring them out and see if the pros like them.

 

As for the r9? Well I think it has some subtance to the rumor because TaylorMade just floods the market.

 

Josh

 

 

 

I agree with that. Taylor Made really needs to stop bringing out a new driver every other month but instead take there time and really devlop a good game changing product like titleist,cleveland, and ping. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with an r9 but if they do it will probably be sometime in summer of 07'.

[triputt]

What most people don't realize is that Taylor likes to eat up every price point. They like to have the std $699 tp, $399 current model and the list of past models trickles down....$299, $249, $199 and $149. They know exactly what they are doing and have calculated the sales of a product from launch through the cloe out chain of prices. It will bring them down! Consumers can be burned so many times. Adidas wants to sell Taylor Made....thats a fact!

[Tim Delgado]

:crazy: TM is quite simply making the finest driver and fws in the world right now, as is clearly evidenced by the number 1 position in PGA bags.

 

Just because a company introduces several products during a certain time period should not create a problem for anyone. If anything it gives us golf geeks something new to try and compare to our current setups.

 

Every single year Mercedes-Benz introduces a "new" S-Class. I am not rich but I have driven nothing but the s-class for over 10 years and see no signs of switching. Just because my car is not the latest version does not mean that I cannot appreciate that the newer model has significant improvements. In fact I am currently drooling over the pics of the 2007 s-class AND the R7 460. :huh: Why would this be a problem for anyone??

 

Tim (cool)

[nikeguy]

Taylormade is the #1 Driver and Fairway wood becuase they are willing to pay Tee-Up money to golfers at each event to win Counts...That is a reality of the business and it is definitely a legit way to market your company. TM is a great company and they are innovative with what they do...Adam's Golf makes good game improvement stuff and they are the #1 product on the Senior Tour...Does that make Adam's the #2 driver and fairway wood? Nike Had the most Iron Win's on tour last year...does that make them the best Irosn company?

Besides the R7 460 was tested in the Golf Digest Hot List 06' and it did not win??? They pay a lot of money $5,100 a week to play the driver and wear the hat? How come with all of those Tour Players playing Taylor Made stuff they could not get (1) guy to play either new driver last year???

Just a question becuase Nike had 2 wins on the PGA Tour in 05' with SQ proucts. They had 14 guys playing the product by Nov. 1st. We are not talking Monday Qualifiers either...Cink; Immleman; Sabbaitni; Leonard;Choi...

My point is everyone makes good products and they are like Ice Cream everyone has a specific flavor they like...

 

Just my point of View and all in Fun! :huh: (cool)

[nikeguy]

Great Point...There is one other group that is hurting from all this product oversaturation is the Golf Shops and Pro Shops. They have to deal with the turnover and they are the ones who eat the margin they are losing in these "outdated" clubs.

[chima]

why do i feel somehow someway the R 9 taylor driver will actually be out before the R 8.........LOL!!!!!!

[mr34345]

look at ipod as an example, they have come out with 7 different models on mp3 players in the last YEAR!!!!....and they are the number 1 selling mp3 product....same with golf....if your driver is 2-3 or w/e models old compaired to the newest model...they u fell that you are getting a better preformce club...even tho the ball cant go any father due to the usga reg.....so if ur a TM guy...dont waste ur cash

[Hifade]

BINGO...and as long as people are lining up to buy...they'll keep making one that claims to be bigger, better, straighter, longer, bettre in bed, more loyal and whatever else we want to hear.

 

 

 

You guys have all missed the point. It is not about clubs or golf, it is about profit. TM, Titleist and others are not in the golf club business (though we like to think they are) they are in the money business, the clubs are just a means to that end.

 

Gavin

:drinks:

[triputt]

taylor currently has these models in the bucket just waiting to spew out:

r7 xd

r7 460 HT

r7 425 LT

r9 400

r9 425

r9 425 tp

r9 440

r9 460

r9 400 xd

r9 430 xd

r10 500 tp

r10 455

r19

r21

r195 tp

r1

r1 tp

r1 xd

[italianstallion]

taylor currently has these models in the bucket just waiting to spew out:

r7 xd

r7 460 HT

r7 425 LT

r9 400

r9 425

r9 425 tp

r9 440

r9 460

r9 400 xd

r9 430 xd

r10 500 tp

r10 455

r19

r21

r195 tp

r1

r1 tp

r1 xd

 

:drinks:

 

dang. If that's true, this is nuts. All it is is increasing head size gradually, or throwing a TP sticker on it.

[r7tp4me]

r 69 ?? where you turn it upside down and...... :drinks:

[orvisorvis]

Isn't R11 and R13 for air conditioners?? :drinks:

[speeder757]

Mercedes has'nt introduced a new S class for quite sometime

[Garbo12]

R9. I dont know.

[mfo]

I'm no MBA and don't own stock in TM. They can run their business the way they want to. But I agree with hungrymarine and mahanate. Because of the number of drivers they have sold, high-quality TM clubs are available at low prices for beginners who don't know what they want and players who can't afford new clubs. I think that's a plus. If you have a good driver you like, who cares if it is the newest driver on the block. Get over it.

[freddiec]

Back in the day all good players used the same driver for 5-10 years, now the technology is "So Much Better", we needs a new one every 14.5 months. How far advanced are we really. What a joke.