Golf Incident....What do you guys think?

[Charlotte Golfer]

We had an incident in my group today, and I'm curious to hear people's thoughts. I guy in my group hit his tee shot too far right on a dogleg right hole. There are homes probably 20 yards right of the fairway. His tee shot clearly was too far right and out of bounds. However, from the tee anyways, it didn't appear anywhere near in jeopardy of hitting a home. As we approach our balls, the owner comes running out and says that a ball just busted one of her windows. She couldn't, though, produce the golf ball that did it. Conceivably, the tee shot could have hit a tree and bounced into her window. However, it would seem that she could at least have found the ball. Who's to say the window wasn't broken already by a person she didn't see and that seeing a ball now that flew into her property she hoped to take advantage of things. Anyways, who wins the argument, IYO: the golfer or the home owner? My friend clearly was not intentionally trying to hit the home, but might he nevertheless be liable?

[blkdiamond]

The golf course in my neighborhood has numerous signs that any damage to property is the responsibility of the golfer. I can't imagine that the lady was sitting in here house waiting for someone to come close to hitting her house so that she could blame them for a window that was already broken. Unfortunately I am guessing that your friend is responsible.

[toofless]

I agree that it's probably your banana buddy's fault. But what I don't get is why is the golfer liable? Don't these people know what they're getting into when they buy a house on the right side of the fairway, about 240yds from the whites??!!

[RoscoeCoaltrain]

Don't homeowners near gold courses have to have insurance to cover any damage? Personally I think you are flat out asking for a few broken windows if you live on a course.

 

I've often thought about what would happen if I ever were to shank a ball through someone's window. I'm pretty sure I would tell them they need to speak to their insurance agent.

[JDorfler]

From what I have been told it's been determined that when you hit your golf ball that where it goes, nobody knows. (This was proven in a case by a lawyer justifying that all golfers would make hole in ones every time they teed off.) Thus no one is at fault, unless it was intentional. Unless she lied to her property insurance company or that she has no property insurance, the insurance company should replace the window, or the course would pick up the tab. A course can post all it wants that property damage from miss hit balls is the responsibility of the player, but it doesn't fly. (Same as the signs on the back of dump trucks stating that they aren't responsible of kicked up rocks. They are.)

 

However, I could be wrong and your area might be different.

[DaveyH]

Innocent until proven guilty!

She cant prove it, she loses.

[harold baines]

the signs don't mean a thing

 

when you buy a home on a golf course it's reasonable to assume your home may be hit with errant shots from time to time, and the homeowners insurance should cover it (and it should be charged at a higher premium due to being on a course)

 

if the homeowner has some way of proving that the golfer hit them on purpose then they'd have some sort of case against the golfer, but an errant shot is just a risk that you assume when you buy a home on a course

 

 

I don't like homes on courses, we're not all pro's here and having some homeowner hassle you for hitting a ball into their yard is BS

[JeffreySpicoli]

Golfwrx (long discussion): Broken Window or other damage caused by golf ball, for homes located "on" golf courses

[DLiver]

I believe that court cases have overwhelmingly ruled that it is the homeowners responsiblity and that the golfer is not at fault.

 

That said, if I damaged someone's car, house or personal property with my ball, I would pay for the damage.

[mantan]

I believe that court cases have overwhelmingly ruled that it is the homeowners responsiblity and that the golfer is not at fault.

 

That said, if I damaged someone's car, house or personal property with my ball, I would pay for the damage.

 

Agreed. These threats pop up from time to time. IMHO, it's a no-brainer. If my errant shot causes damage, then I feel I am responsible and should pay the bill. I know the risks when I tee the ball up. It's not like a house suddenly appeared from nowhere.

 

I hit someone's home before and broke a window. It was covered under my homeowners policy under 'Damage to Property of Others'.

 

Personally I think it's a cop-out to say somebody 'should have known better' when they built a house there. Are they signficantly increasing the risk to theirtheir property (and frankly their family/friends health) in danger by living there? Sure, but that was there decision. But I still feel I should take accountability for my actions.

[charlesdupuy]

Homes near courses a fairly inevitable considering golf courses are quite nice places to live and clubs are often willing to offload unused land for large sums of money, however from a golfer's point of view I agree that they are frustrating. It's not your fault that someone's home is in range if you hit an errant shot where, most importantly you're going to struggle to make par from, and also you have an unhappy resident flying off at you.

 

My home course has a similar situation on our 13th with new houses on old course land that are partly protected by trees, although I hear of situations every now and again with players saying they broke a roof tile. In the UK I think the resident is left to claim on their house insurance, although I beleive the club also has something in it's insurance policy to cover that situation also (the policy also covers the bar tab for a hole in one :-)). There are no signs anywhere to say that you have report a lost ball to the right or that the golfer is liable, which is sensible becasue I studied a health and safety module at college that covered a few basics of legislation and it simply isn't true unless the gofler delibretly aimed at the house, and i'd image you'd need some sort of intent to cause damage in there too. The resident is living there under the knowledge that a golf course is adjacent and is negligent if they do not take steps to protect their property, and following that the club is responsible for ensuring that golf balls don't leave it's land.

 

It's similar to another dangerous area at my home club where the practice ground is next to the 18th fairway with no protective nets, a player can slice a ball from the practice mats towards the 18th, but can't see it land or any of the hole, therefore the person in danger on the 18th also has no chance of seeing a ball coming. Signs denying responsiblity would be useless becasue the club hasn't taken reasonable measures to ensuring safety, hence would be negligent and therefore liable. I think even putting warning signs up would still not be reasonable becasue they are encouraging people to hit golf shots that could land in an area that endangers another golfer. Arguably a sign requesting practicing players to shout 'fore' if they hit an errant shot would be a good idea but i'm not sure that it would cover reasonable steps to ensuring safety or stand up in court.

[HeadonaStick]

I believe that court cases have overwhelmingly ruled that it is the homeowners responsiblity and that the golfer is not at fault.

 

That said, if I damaged someone's car, house or personal property with my ball, I would pay for the damage.

 

Agreed. These threats pop up from time to time. IMHO, it's a no-brainer. If my errant shot causes damage, then I feel I am responsible and should pay the bill. I know the risks when I tee the ball up. It's not like a house suddenly appeared from nowhere.

 

I hit someone's home before and broke a window. It was covered under my homeowners policy under 'Damage to Property of Others'.

 

Personally I think it's a cop-out to say somebody 'should have known better' when they built a house there. Are they signficantly increasing the risk to theirtheir property (and frankly their family/friends health) in danger by living there? Sure, but that was there decision. But I still feel I should take accountability for my actions.

I don't have an issue if you feel responsible and pay for the damage, but it is the homeowners responsibility.

 

You can't control where your tee shot goes; a buyer can choose not to buy on a golf course if they don't want to take the risk of errant shots. It is one of the risks they take for the privilege and enjoyment of owning a home on a golf course.

[Asleep]

Golfer is responsible for damage to the window.

 

Golf course/owners/membership is not.

 

Do you really think someone broke their own window and then hid in the bushes waiting hours to rush out and falsly accuse your buddy of breaking her $100 window?

 

If the liable golfer has homeowner's/renter's insurance he can usually successfully file a claim through that.

 

Let me qualify: in Texas. Been litigated many times, same results.

[Foreleft]

Yes, she can submit it to her homewoners carrier, however, she will have a deductible. The golfer can submit it to his carrier, under the liability portion, for the damage done.

 

The homeowner did not waive her rights just because she lives on a golf course, unlike another golfer that is hit while playing. One is participating in the event, the other is not.

 

All that said, if you live on the golf course, you should have a reasonable expectation that your house will be hit. That's why they make plexiglass.

[Johnny]

You can't control where your tee shot goes;

 

I thought that was the whole point of playing golf ???

[teejaywhy]

I love on a course...

 

Do you ever have problems with bug bites or anything like that?

[Yuck]

Golfer is responsible for damage to the window.

 

Golf course/owners/membership is not.

 

Do you really think someone broke their own window and then hid in the bushes waiting hours to rush out and falsly accuse your buddy of breaking her $100 window?

 

If the liable golfer has homeowner's/renter's insurance he can usually successfully file a claim through that.

 

Let me qualify: in Texas. Been litigated many times, same results.

 

 

I agree. We lived on a golf course and our window's were broken twice in 5 years. On there was no one who came forward. Our deductible was $500 and the window was $700 so we fixed it and did not file a claim. The other time the gentleman left his name and number and the $700 was covered without a deductible by his homeowners policy under damage to others. As a side bar, it is amazing what some people assume you give up when you live on a Golf course. We would chip from time to time in our back yard and had many balls in the yard as a result, and one day we saw a golfer who came to find his ball picking up literally dozens of balls from our yard. I told him he was welcome to recover his ball, but leave the others alone. His response was that I could not prove the other balls were mine, so he would assume they were "lost". (Beer appeared to be involved).

[DaveLair]

I always thought that the course should have the responsibility for damages inflicted by golfers who've paid to play on their course.

[Big Ben]

I do not agree that the golfer is liable for anything however golf is an ethical gentlemans game and the window in my mind falls within these parameters therfore I personally would accept accountability and offer to repair the damage. This represents my values in life and golf; very bad voodoo not to do what's right. Also 100% agree that anyone willing to buy off the right side of a fairway is asking for the possiblity that someone is going to tell them to get bent after they slam dunk a Noodle in there morning joe.

[PhillyHack73]

I have lived in 2 separate communities that abutted holes on a golf course. Included in the real estate covenant at both communities was a no fault clause relieving the golf course and golfers from any unintentional damage to homeowners property.

If you don't want to take this risk, don't live next to a golf course.

[HeadonaStick]

Interesting thread here that covers this by people far more expert than I.

[Driving Hamster]

I live off a course (in Pennsylvania) but thankfully are out of ball range. You would have to tee it up 90 degress from the fairway and smack it to reach my home. I get the beautiful view without the "danger" so to speak. Momma raised no fool there.

 

That being said I have friends who live just off the left edge of the course (over a public road). There are 3 houses in particular that get smacked all the time by errant shots. Two of those homeowners are reasonable and expect to get hit once in a while. Once they lost a window to a ball they have been replacing them with special glass meant for hurricane prone areas. This is supposed to deflect the balls and not shatter, all the while looking like real glass and not ugly plexiglass. The third homeowner (who by the way does not play golf!) gets irrate with golfers in his yard. He has dents all over his vinyl siding, two dents in his car and two holes in the drywall in his garage from balls skipping in off the driveway. In the 18 months he has lived there he has collected over 600 balls out of his yard. He gets in the golfers face about it once they enter his yard. While I do not agree with approaching incidents this way he has on occasion seen golfers in his back yard and, on one occasion, found a golfer in his garage looking for his ball. This is not acceptable behavior on any golfers part.

 

I do not agree that just because we live near a course that it gives golfers the right to damage our property at will and without recourse. I agree with the person that said that golf is a gentleman's game. I do accept that we will have the occasional ball enter our yards and we might have a few dents in the siding, but if there is significant physical damage that is unacceptable.

 

I believe that it is the golfers duty to speak with the homeowner if there is the possibility of damage to the homeowners property. They can work it out through their homeowners insurances. When I was a student on break I took out a sliding glass door with a ball in Mertle Beach. I spoke with the homeowner right away. We agreed that he would submit it to his homeowners insurance and that I would pay his deductable. I thought that was fair. He actually sent me a thank you note a few weeks after the incident for handling it like we did. Now that I live on a course and see some of the irresponsible people that play golf I can understand his reaction.

 

You can, and should, control where your golf shots go (within reason) and if you can't perhaps more range time is needed before getting out on the course again.

 

PS: Our original real estate covenant also had a damage exclusion from golf related activities. Had our attorney remove that clause from the covenant before we signed it. A fair number of my neighbors have done the same.

[mantan]

Interesting thread here that covers this by people far more expert than I.

 

LOL - sounds as inconclusive as this thread is....

 

I just don't see how anybody could break somone's window and shrug it off like - 'well, they were asking for it.' And while their homeowners policy would cover it (even though it was my actions that caused it), I'd feel bad knowing they got stuck with the deductible when my DPO policy would pay the entire expense. Karma is a b#($h.

 

That being said, I don't think any homeowner should come out angry their house got hit. That's IS part of the expectation of living on the golf course.

[HeadonaStick]

Interesting thread here that covers this by people far more expert than I.

 

LOL - sounds as inconclusive as this thread is....

 

I just don't see how anybody could break somone's window and shrug it off like - 'well, they were asking for it.' And while their homeowners policy would cover it (even though it was my actions that caused it), I'd feel bad knowing they got stuck with the deductible when my DPO policy would pay the entire expense. Karma is a b#($h.

 

That being said, I don't think any homeowner should come out angry their house got hit. That's IS part of the expectation of living on the golf course.

I'm not sure I'd shrug it off, but some of us don't have homeowner's insurance to just cover it for us. My question is this, if the golfer is not responsible why does their insurance pay out on the claim?

[golfdad907]

The golf course in my neighborhood has numerous signs that any damage to property is the responsibility of the golfer. I can't imagine that the lady was sitting in here house waiting for someone to come close to hitting her house so that she could blame them for a window that was already broken. Unfortunately I am guessing that your friend is responsible.

 

Regardless of those signs, there's a legal concept known as assumption of risk, which basically if you buy a house on a golf course you assume the risk of getting balls launched your way. Now if someone intentially aims at a house, that would be different. I am fairly certain you can look up court records on this and find the courts agree with assumed risk....now if they could rule on people who move near an airport and beotch about the noise....

[mantan]

Interesting thread here that covers this by people far more expert than I.

 

LOL - sounds as inconclusive as this thread is....

 

I just don't see how anybody could break someone's window and shrug it off like - 'well, they were asking for it.' And while their homeowners policy would cover it (even though it was my actions that caused it), I'd feel bad knowing they got stuck with the deductible when my DPO policy would pay the entire expense. Karma is a b#($h.

 

That being said, I don't think any homeowner should come out angry their house got hit. That's IS part of the expectation of living on the golf course.

I'm not sure I'd shrug it off, but some of us don't have homeowner's insurance to just cover it for us. My question is this, if the golfer is not responsible why does their insurance pay out on the claim?

 

It's the same reason your collision coverage will pay if somebody hits your car and either drives away or is uninsured - an event being covered is totally different than assessing liability....

 

In the event someone doesn't have homeowners or renters insurance, they should at least offer to pony up the deductible for the homeowner who files the claim.

[Asleep]

...assumption of risk...

Assumption of risk pertains to "participants"---players/spectators. Like at a baseball game.

 

I have lived in 2 separate communities that abutted holes on a golf course. Included in the real estate covenant at both communities was a no fault clause relieving the golf course and golfers from any unintentional damage to homeowners property....

While this creates a different circumstance, it illustrates the point that the golfer is liable. Those communities have chosen to indemnify the all golfers from any liabilty --- which they would not have had to do had the liabilty not attached.

[jmac35]

My thoughts have always been if the house was there first, they have the right to complain.

 

If the course was there first then tough luck, they shouldn't have bought a house 200 yards down a fairway, I know I wouldn't.

[HeadonaStick]

You know, why is it that homeowners on a golf course don't put plexiglass in the windows facing the course?

[jacksonlui]

i think the home owners have to assume there is that risk when buying the house. it's entirely up to the homeowner to weigh the risks of not having coverage through their insurance. there are trade offs when you want a view of the fairway. i'd say if you don't want your window broken, put up a barrier.