miura,vega epon just too exspensive?

[JD3]

I apologize in advance if this has already been brought up but I believe that a big portion of the jump in price paid for JDM type equipment is for the duty/import fees and not necessarily for the equipment itself. Import fees for U.S. bound products is typically much less than for items not made specifically for the U.S. Case in point would be Mizuno irons. You will likely pay more for Japan market Mizunos yet I don't think they are taking a loss for selling MP-67's at the same relative price point as Titleist and Taylor Made. My 2 cents.

Strong Yen not helping anything either.

[Toosum]

You pay for quality. Simple as that. The major OEM's only care about market share and that means that they have to move volume. Craftsmanship isn't a priority. Poxy do-nothing ("sound improving") badges slapped on a cheap chinese casting are far cheaper. When next season comes around all you have to do is make a shiny new sticker and let your marketing department off the leash. They pay big money to pros who could probably knock it around with garden tools and do ok. When they want something better, its created for them and either called a prototype or dummied up to look what they are trying to flog to the great unwashed. The forged version of the TM Tour Preferred is but one example.

 

Stepping off my soap box though, you don't have to pay that much for Japansese Forgings. For example the Bridgestone J36 irons are Endo forged (same as Epon and the Cally X-proto) and cost no more than what you'd pay for Chinese forgings from Titleist/Callaway/Cobra/TM etc. All depends on whether you want a shiny sticker and slick advertising or quality.

What do you think of Mizuno? They're a Japanese forging but also a major OEM with multiple model introductions every year.

 

True. No issues with Mizzy quality. You'll note, however, that they have historically had a far longer product cycle than many OEMs. I grant you that the mp57 and their GI clubs are a recent exception.

[xxio]

I have help take apart a set of Miz Japan irons (32s so also available in the US). They were all D1.5 and the PW D2. They had zero tip weighting. My US MP32s had DGS300 and they were all D2.5 and had tipweights/lead in 3 or 4 of the heads (too long ago to remember exactly).

[joey3108]

Those are the only biggest different i can validate!

 

However, those are an issue of an assembler who have pressure to build everything faster and less time spend on sorting out those heads.

 

As of the head quality on how it made, I bet they are exactly the same...except the QC guy PROBABLY sort them out for the best non blemish head for Japan and Asian Market and the rest are for the other side of the pond.

[xxio]

I couldn't tell any difference from the 2 heads either until the shafts were pulled.

 

Everything was topnotch. I'm not good enough to notice the tipweights during play.

[TheIronChef]

Those are the only biggest different i can validate!

 

However, those are an issue of an assembler who have pressure to build everything faster and less time spend on sorting out those heads.

 

As of the head quality on how it made, I bet they are exactly the same...except the QC guy PROBABLY sort them out for the best non blemish head for Japan and Asian Market and the rest are for the other side of the pond.

 

It seems like Mr. Miura lives in Canada, or at least spends a lot of time there. Could the quality of Miura clubs be the same across continents?

[hokey]

I live in Asia and can tell you that the pricing strategy insofar as Asian equipment is concerned, especially Japanese equipment is vastly different.

 

Here in Asia, golf has an aura of being expensive and only for the well- heeled. Here, more than anywhere else, golf is used for business, networking and corporate entertainment, with actual enjoyment coming in a distant second. I have met many people who confess that they took up golf because they felt they "had to".

 

As a result, just as the way one dresses and grooms himself gives a certain impression, your equipment also matters. If you're a banker trying to convince a client to switch to you because you'll make him a lot of money, showing up at the course with a beat- up old bag, a 190cc Driver and 8 mismatched irons simply isn't done, even of those clubs are what works best.

 

That's where Japanese equipment comes in. The more expensive, the better the impression. That is why, up till recently, Honma had several iron sets on sale which cost up to 50,000 USD (I kid you not- ok they threw in the bag as well).

 

That being said, I have had the opportunity to try out a lot of these Japanese offerings and I can tell you that they are of the highest quality. Perhaps not twice or three times better than the equivalent western OEMs, but quality nonetheless. Plus, at least you know that when you buy them, half of the purchase price isn't going to pay the Pro that endorses them.

[JD3]

How does Honma stack up to the others? I never liked the look of them and assumed they weren't as good

[hokey]

Honma is to Japanese golf what Callaway or TM is to golf on the other side of the pond. They are arguably Japan's most established OEM.

 

However, in keeping with my earlier post about prestige, Homna offers a huge range of equipment at different price points. Their lower- end stuff is approximately the same price point as the Tourstage equipment (think approx 1000-1500USD) for a set of irons.

 

I am not sure if they still do it, but Honma used to have a "star" rating on its equipment. One star was entry level and 3 stars was the shizzle.

 

I've seen a set of gold- plated Honma irons in a shop window going for a cool 50 grand US.

 

My take is that Honma produces quality stuff, just like any other decent OEM. But because they're larger, you can expect their products to have the same price vs quality compromise as any other large OEM. The smaller boutique houses like Miura, Yururi and Epon are, IMHO, in a different league.

[joey3108]

Those are the only biggest different i can validate!

 

However, those are an issue of an assembler who have pressure to build everything faster and less time spend on sorting out those heads.

 

As of the head quality on how it made, I bet they are exactly the same...except the QC guy PROBABLY sort them out for the best non blemish head for Japan and Asian Market and the rest are for the other side of the pond.

 

It seems like Mr. Miura lives in Canada, or at least spends a lot of time there. Could the quality of Miura clubs be the same across continents?

 

Miura Canada is for North America Sole distributor. Mr Katsuhiro Miura do not live in Canada. I believe he still live in Himeji area in Japan.

 

I can't speak as they are the same or not, due to some of them have totally different head design and finish. I would be surprise if they are the same!

 

Joe

[JD3]

The most expensive I've seen are Golds Factory and they look gimmicky and not worth it to me. I saw a set of Fourteen blades over the w/e and they were probably the best looking clubs I've ever seen. And the price wasn't even bad at around $1,000 USD. The Fourteen cavity backeds didn't look so hot. The Miura Blade and CBs looked good but there's something about their sole design not quite right to me. Scratch wedges the leading edge was too straight. Fourteen wedges looked awesome. I like Tourstage a lot and think their clubs setup very nicely for better players right off the rack. At times though they add a little a tweak that's unnecessary (like putting some alloy insert in a forged head.) Their new smaller wedges look very playable.

 

But anyway my biggest problem with just about all of them is lack of left hand availibility. Like I posted earlier, usually when I ask the salesman if they can get me the club in left, the response is

[whitepatch342]

i was a non-beleiver and i couldnt imagine anyone in their right mind spending 1700 on an iron set. My local shop guy loves non OEM's and put all of em in my hands...epon, miura, scratch, nakashima, fourteen. Trackman never lies, they are better clubs. Feel, control flight you name it. I still dont think its worth it but if i had the money i would be all over it.

[shuttle1]

The most expensive I've seen are Golds Factory and they look gimmicky and not worth it to me. I saw a set of Fourteen blades over the w/e and they were probably the best looking clubs I've ever seen. And the price wasn't even bad at around $1,000 USD. The Fourteen cavity backeds didn't look so hot. The Miura Blade and CBs looked good but there's something about their sole design not quite right to me. Scratch wedges the leading edge was too straight. Fourteen wedges looked awesome. I like Tourstage a lot and think their clubs setup very nicely for better players right off the rack. At times though they add a little a tweak that's unnecessary (like putting some alloy insert in a forged head.) Their new smaller wedges look very playable.

 

But anyway my biggest problem with just about all of them is lack of left hand availibility. Like I posted earlier, usually when I ask the salesman if they can get me the club in left, the response is

 

The good news for you guys that hit it from the wrong side of the ball is that it is changing, quickly. More and more of the JDM's are offering left handed eq. That includes Epon and Tourstage.

 

I can promise you there is nothing gimmicky about the Gold's Irons. Outstanding Irons. I gamed them for the last half of '08 and absolutely loved them. Actually I still do, I'm just such a ho I have to try out everything else just because. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up back in the bag again. Just posted a couple of pics in the Gold's-Miura thread. You can see they are straight forward.

[JD3]

The most expensive I've seen are Golds Factory and they look gimmicky and not worth it to me. I saw a set of Fourteen blades over the w/e and they were probably the best looking clubs I've ever seen. And the price wasn't even bad at around $1,000 USD. The Fourteen cavity backeds didn't look so hot. The Miura Blade and CBs looked good but there's something about their sole design not quite right to me. Scratch wedges the leading edge was too straight. Fourteen wedges looked awesome. I like Tourstage a lot and think their clubs setup very nicely for better players right off the rack. At times though they add a little a tweak that's unnecessary (like putting some alloy insert in a forged head.) Their new smaller wedges look very playable.

 

But anyway my biggest problem with just about all of them is lack of left hand availibility. Like I posted earlier, usually when I ask the salesman if they can get me the club in left, the response is

 

The good news for you guys that hit it from the wrong side of the ball is that it is changing, quickly. More and more of the JDM's are offering left handed eq. That includes Epon and Tourstage.

 

I can promise you there is nothing gimmicky about the Gold's Irons. Outstanding Irons. I gamed them for the last half of '08 and absolutely loved them. Actually I still do, I'm just such a ho I have to try out everything else just because. It wouldn't surprise me if they end up back in the bag again. Just posted a couple of pics in the Gold's-Miura thread. You can see they are straight forward.

The Golds clubs I saw were wedges with like Skulls on them or something for like $1200 for a pair. And the faces had some weird checkered pattern. I think you can see why I call them gimmicky.

[shuttle1]

The Golds clubs I saw were wedges with like Skulls on them or something for like $1200 for a pair. And the faces had some weird checkered pattern. I think you can see why I call them gimmicky.

 

Those are One of a kind sets made more for the collectors than the Players. The mainstream wedges are quite down to earth. They look and play fantastic. Again, nothing gimmicky about them. But I do hear what you're saying about the One of a kind sets.

[JD3]

The Golds clubs I saw were wedges with like Skulls on them or something for like $1200 for a pair. And the faces had some weird checkered pattern. I think you can see why I call them gimmicky.

 

Those are One of a kind sets made more for the collectors than the Players. The mainstream wedges are quite down to earth. They look and play fantastic. Again, nothing gimmicky about them. But I do hear what you're saying about the One of a kind sets.

I believe it if you say it as you sure know your JDM stuff. If you were lefty you'd probably have slit your wrists by now seeing so many new toys but not being able to play with them! :russian_roulette:

[ranghips9]

andy,

 

i was a titleist die-hard up to September last year, but bought a set of miura cb201's, which totally blew me away. then i bought the miura raw wedges and recently got custom fitted for an epon af-101 driver.

 

my friends ask me the difference between Japanese premium forged v titleist/ping/taylormade, and the best comparison i can make is, titleist/ping/taylormade is the BMW or Merc's, Japanese forged clubs are the aston martin/ferrari's, you got try out and experience for yourself.

 

yeah, they can be expensive, but if you keep your eye on ebay, there are deals to be had!! i know of one guy of bought a set of miura cb202's and 2 chikara wedges for £550, brand new approx £1800 - £2000.

 

also what you are paying for is the quality of club set-up for you and you only. what i mean is when you choose your shafts, these will be pured/spined to your spec, not like picking a set from a shelf which have not had this.

 

if you do venture into buying some japanese forged clubs, i would recommend Allan Talyor at Pure Forged Golf, web address below.

 

www.pureforged.co.uk

 

As a fellow customer of Allan Taylor I would like to endorse ttank2610's comments, Allan has built me 2 sets of Miura's (CB1006 players cavity backs and a set of MB5003 blades) as well as two drivers, a three wood and utility clubs, and numerous wedges! His service and workmanship are excellent, equalled only by the quality of the Japanese forgings.

To all those doubters out there who think JDM clubs are an expensive hype, let me say if you have never tried one then you are not in a position to voice an opinion! My experience is that a properly fitted set of Japanese forged irons with the correct shafts are so much much better than any OEM off the shelf offering at a very similar price.

Finding Allan at Pure Forged Golf has been the best move I have made in over 30 years of playing golf, I will never again buy an off the shelf golf club of any kind and as long as I can afford the small extra premium over mas produced clubs I will allways buy high quality Japanese forgings!

Nick

[JD3]

As a result, just as the way one dresses and grooms himself gives a certain impression, your equipment also matters. If you're a banker trying to convince a client to switch to you because you'll make him a lot of money, showing up at the course with a beat- up old bag, a 190cc Driver and 8 mismatched irons simply isn't done, even of those clubs are what works best.

What if someone showed up with TM Bubble woods loaded with pop-up marks, Spalding Executive Irons with a missing 7 iron, graphite-shafted The Alien Wedges and a miniature golf course putter?

[TheIronChef]

As a result, just as the way one dresses and grooms himself gives a certain impression, your equipment also matters. If you're a banker trying to convince a client to switch to you because you'll make him a lot of money, showing up at the course with a beat- up old bag, a 190cc Driver and 8 mismatched irons simply isn't done, even of those clubs are what works best.

What if someone showed up with TM Bubble woods loaded with pop-up marks, Spalding Executive Irons with a missing 7 iron, graphite-shafted The Alien Wedges and a miniature golf course putter?

 

No deal for you unless you can shoot 72 with those toys.

[hokey]

It's not about what you can shoot. It's about the image.

 

Would you want to give your business to a guy who looks like he is so lousy at what he does that he can't afford some decent bling? Or even worse, has so much time on his hands that he's good enough to shoot a 72 ;)

[JD3]

It's not about what you can shoot. It's about the image.

 

Would you want to give your business to a guy who looks like he is so lousy at what he does that he can't afford some decent bling? Or even worse, has so much time on his hands that he's good enough to shoot a 72 ;)

I think maybe there's a cultural difference there. In the US people who show up with super expensive equipment, player clubs they can't hit and fancy outfits often come across as fools. You'd be much better off being a good player with lousy equipment than a lousy player with new Miura blades who can't break 100. I'm not saying what perspective is better, but it did make me realize this difference as I have seen some Asian golfers in the US give a bad impression by being 22 handicaps using pro clubs, while decked out in a $500 JLindberg outft .

[shuttle1]

I think it's interesting how this thread has brought many different points of view. A lot of us don't see things from anything but our own prospective. It's good to see all the different ones as it is what makes the world go around. For any one person to say they are right about what's been debated here has hopefully realized that we are all different and like different things. Nobody right, nobody wrong. They make expensive clubs, they make inexpensive clubs. It's great to have a choice and choose what it is that makes you happy.

 

I don't want to be put down for showing up at the Golf course with a bag I've spent 5k on anymore than I want someone to laugh at me because of a bag that has TM Bubble woods loaded with pop-up marks, Spalding Executive Irons with a missing 7 iron, graphite-shafted The Alien Wedges and a miniature golf course putter?

 

Here's hoping my score is better with the 5K set. :drinks:

[xxio]

If you can't play....display.

[joey3108]

If you can't play....display.

 

bastxxx! you beat me on that LOL!

 

I'll do the other version then:

 

If you are not that good, at least you look GOOOOOOOOD! :D

[xxio]

Joe,

 

I can let you post it instead. Just give me a great deal on the Motore Speeder.

 

My San Fo trip last year became NYC and Toronto. This year the planned SF trip looks to be turning into a SE Asia swing instead HK, Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. I think the wife knows from w2's stories San Francisco is a dangerous place :)

[joey3108]

Joe,

 

I can let you post it instead. Just give me a great deal on the Motore Speeder.

 

My San Fo trip last year became NYC and Toronto. This year the planned SF trip looks to be turning into a SE Asia swing instead HK, Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand. I think the wife knows from w2's stories San Francisco is a dangerous place :)

 

Nothing is dangerous enough when you are coming for the BEST ! LOL!

 

Tell here, it's all worth it to see me ha ha ha !

 

joe

[shuttle1]

If you can't play....display.

 

Nothing better than when you can do both.

 

My favorite time of the day is when I am putting my iron cover back on my club and taking the guys money who was sure he was going to beat the guy because he uses iron covers.

 

Even better is after you hit a couple of monster drives down the middle and they want to see the Driver you're using because surely it has to be the Driver...

 

I love this game!!!

[xxio]

Well if you can play and display that is even better.

[joey3108]

Well if you can play and display that is even better.

 

But how many can really prove it to their hdcp? :)

 

That is why they've always said GOLF IS A HUMBLING GAME, if we approach them correctly with the right attitude.

[TheIronChef]

It's not about what you can shoot. It's about the image.

 

Would you want to give your business to a guy who looks like he is so lousy at what he does that he can't afford some decent bling? Or even worse, has so much time on his hands that he's good enough to shoot a 72 ;)

I think maybe there's a cultural difference there. In the US people who show up with super expensive equipment, player clubs they can't hit and fancy outfits often come across as fools. You'd be much better off being a good player with lousy equipment than a lousy player with new Miura blades who can't break 100. I'm not saying what perspective is better, but it did make me realize this difference as I have seen some Asian golfers in the US give a bad impression by being 22 handicaps using pro clubs, while decked out in a $500 JLindberg outft .

 

Sorry I wasn't being too serious on my last comment :P

 

Having spent half of my life in Asia and North America, I am pretty confident to say that in the business world you have to both look good and play well. Employers in America judge how you look no less than those in Asia. I would agree the look prong is relatively more important in Asia because golf has a brighter aura of luxury. And because of that many business people could not have a chance to play golf until an older age, so you are not expected to be that good. Playing business golf with your boss is even trickier because some expect you to be competitive and some would be pissed if you beat them :)