Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[dubbie]

Excellent!!!!

[Seth Pistol]

wait, not to go off topic but is doug no longer running PT?

[psygolf]

And just think...we might never be debating here if Tiger had not ditched his ping putter when he signed with Titleist. (Anyone who worked at a high-end shop or golf course when he won his 1st Master's can attest to the frenzy it created over the stick...very similar to the effect Nicklaus had on putter sales in '86)

[xxio]

Does anyone know how the Terrylium (sp?)putter ever got into TW's hands that would be an interesting story?

 

Secondly does anyone know if Bettinardi had input in other things like making up the word terrylium (sp?) in the naming of the putters, etc or was it all limited to manufacturing?

 

In commemoration of this thread I will take out one of my Bettinardi milled Camerons today for a tournament.

[psygolf]

Does anyone know how the Terrylium (sp?)putter ever got into TW's hands that would be an interesting story?

 

Secondly does anyone know if Bettinardi had input in other things like making up the word terrylium (sp?) in the naming of the putters, etc or was it all limited to manufacturing?

 

In commemoration of this thread I will take out one of my Bettinardi milled Camerons today for a tournament.

At that time the only non-Titleist clubs in Tiger's bag were his Cobra driver & mizuno 2 iron...and it was a cool putter, but $300 putters were not selling before he gamed it.

[xxio]

I had a bet for a sleeve of balls that this thread would have more views than the "fall of the empire" thread.

 

I can't seem "the fall" thread? Even the link in Jick's signature doesn't work.

[xxio]

I love it. A head is not a putter but you can get a COA for a block of steel :)

 

Yup noone is perfect. Hopefully word gets back to Cameron and the corrections can be made on the website soon. We wouldn't want the misinformation to continue.

[hodges]

I also believe that along with the right to have an opinion comes the responsibility to respect others opinions. It is a fine line between respecting and trying to convince someone your opinion is more worthy than theirs.

 

Too bad your posts do not follow your beliefs. I guess if attacking and bashing people that post differing opinions is "respect" we have differing opinions on what respect is.

 

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Same as the scottinardi putter. If Bob put an experimental milling on a putterhead he was making for Scotty, does that make it a "real" Scotty. Everyone has an opinion, Scotty says no. But if you are a basher you will just use this as another example of what is wrong with the world.

Greg Hodges

( my real name)

 

Off to fold some sweaters

 

Are you capable of posting without attacking people that are not even involved in the thread?

 

Kevin many of the removed posts on TCC were removed at the request of the original posters, JR-orgasim, JS, and others. When they were no longer members they didn't want to leave any record behind. So they requested their posts be removed.

 

You mean you didn't know that JR sold things like Asian Camerons to insiders for a lower price than he sold them to the rest of the TCC members?

 

I received a few PM's that shed some light. Were you not personal friends with these guys at one time? Is it not the mantra in the Cameron world that friends are more important than putters? That the Cameron guys collect friendships not putters? What caused you to trash your friendships and begin attacking these guys in public other than they now might have opinions that differ from yours?

 

"I also believe that along with the right to have an opinion comes the responsibility to respect others opinions."

 

It sure seems to be easy for the Cameron guys to dump a friendship and begin the public flogging of their former friends. With "friends" like that who needs enemies!

 

Ok I will bite, which of my posts are attacking people or bashing them.

 

Yes I was very good friends with Doug Hardman, John Scharon and John Roxxxxino. I still consider Doug my friend. When John and John took over putter talk the tone on PT changed and an agenda of encouraging bashing of Cameron started. Myself and others occasionally posted trying to provide a different point of view and to correct some mis-information. I was banned from puttertalk because JS wanted to believe something I posted was an attacked on government employees. It wasn't and he refused to believe me. As you know the Cameron section there is now by approval only to control the content.

The one thing that did hurt was that someone from PT was probably using my account to log onto FOV and copy and paste posts from there. You see I was dumb enough to have the same user name and password on both sites. At some point in time the background on TCC was changed to a different color scheme. I didn't like it and reset me account to the old background. There were only 2 members of the FOV that reverted to the old background and had the same user name and passwords. There were days that my account on TCC was logged into from over 50 different ipc's. I have no proof who was logging into my account and when I asked JR where he got the copies of the threads from FOV he refused to tell me.

These are the facts, if you or anyone views them as attacking someone, I am sorry but they are still the facts.

Do I miss my former friends, well in a way I do. Anytime a friendship ends it is a sad thing. But I find negative people bring me down. Life is so busy I just don't want to spend time looking for negative things.

Do I agree with everything on TCC? Heck no, one of my best internet friends was banned because he has a sense of humor that some moderator didn't like. Now he's a FOB but were still friends.

 

Greg

 

PS if you think me signing my name is bashing you for being anonymous, ok it might be a small tweak, but in a friendly way

[SUBPARJ]

stamped 1996 just that it is stamped 1996;

 

and examples go on and on.

 

Scotty increases the value of his stuff by stamping it a certain way and then issuing a COA and story to embellish the history of the item. Obviously Scotty and you guys think that it would devalue the Classic I Mini if the big collectors and the public thought that there were more than 5 of them made. Why else would you all continue to try and claim there are only 5 "authentic" Classic I Mini's? It is another example of Cameron and his crew attempting to manipulate the value and the history of items associated with Cameron.

 

Personally I do not think the value would change if there were 8 instead of 5 or if there were 12 instead of 5. In the Cameron Blog or Garage Talk Cameron responds to a question asking if he will make anymore Mini's and his response is something to the effect that it is not out of the question that more will be made. If that happens then yes, the value of the Cameron Classic I Mini will take a dive just like the original Scotty Cameron Milled Putters head covers did when the NOS versions were issued.

 

Voice from the PA system: "Nick, sweaters on isle 5 need to be folded. Get back to work."

[hodges]

FOB = Friend of Bob's

 

Nick if you are asking about JR and others posts they were removed at their requests, sure I miss the information but it was their request to be removed not TCC's idea.

If you asking about posts being deleted because they violated the rules of the site, well those are the rules and if you want to post on the site you have to follow the rules. Doug set those rules and there still there today. If people vanish or get banned well there were many tht deserved it and a few that didn't

If your asking about someone else? who?

If it is yourself, there are 2 sides to that story and I don't have first hand info so what could I say.

[hodges]

stamped 1996 just that it is stamped 1996;

 

and examples go on and on.

 

Scotty increases the value of his stuff by stamping it a certain way and then issuing a COA and story to embellish the history of the item. Obviously Scotty and you guys think that it would devalue the Classic I Mini if the big collectors and the public thought that there were more than 5 of them made. Why else would you all continue to try and claim there are only 5 "authentic" Classic I Mini's? It is another example of Cameron and his crew attempting to manipulate the value and the history of items associated with Cameron.

 

Personally I do not think the value would change if there were 8 instead of 5 or if there were 12 instead of 5. In the Cameron Blog or Garage Talk Cameron responds to a question asking if he will make anymore Mini's and his response is something to the effect that it is not out of the question that more will be made. If that happens then yes, the value of the Cameron Classic I Mini will take a dive just like the original Scotty Cameron Milled Putters head covers did when the NOS versions were issued.

 

Voice from the PA system: "Nick, sweaters on isle 5 need to be folded. Get back to work."

 

Let me ask you this, if you bought one of those China made Callaway heads off ebay, added a callaway shaft and grip, would it be an authentic Callaway driver. Remember it was made in the same factory as authentic Callaway?

I think authentic means it comes from the retailer that ordered it for sale.

[rrkman]

Just curious that since nobody said anything about my opinions, they must be decent and strong enough to not dispute, since that is what we do best :clapping: ....or are you guys trying to tell me that my opinion doesn't matter....or is it just not controversial enough for this discussion?

 

I added my post inside the quote....my stuff should all be bold.

 

For those that are of the opinion that everything on the Scotty Cameron web site is factual here is something interesting. According to the web site "fewer than 5" Classic Mini's were made. If that is the case why is one of them stamped as being 1 of 5? Oh I know, the number 4 sounds like the word for death in Japan so he could not stamp a 1 of 4 on the putter. Yea, that is what happened.

 

I know it also says "before the merger with Titleist". So, does this mean that originally there were only 4 made, 3 made, 2 made or 1 made and that after the merger with Titleist then 1 more was made, 2 more were made, 3 more were made, 4 more were made? If they were made after the Titleist affiliation, where is the Titleist engraving?

 

I'm no expert but aren't there putters still being made that don't have Titleist on them? Certainly not the production models but I would think that some putters still get out from him without Titleist on it. But I could be wrong.

The site also says that his wife left the putter under Scotty's pillow to let him know that she was pregnant. If Scotty designed and ordered the putters how much of a surprise would that have been? If Bettinardi designed and made the putter to give to Kathy as a gift for Scotty would that be more of a surprise to Scotty?

 

I'm not sure but I think the surprise was that she was pregnant, not the mini putter.... ;)

Now, to remove Bettinardi from the equation there are several new versions of the creation of this putter, none of which involve Bettinardi.

 

Which one of these versions makes the most sense to you:

 

1) Bettinardi designed and manufactured a one piece CNC milled mini version of the Classic I head and gave one of the first ones to Kathy so that she could surprise Scotty with the putter. Is that not what the web site says about the puuter, more or less.

 

- Not really...it says that she took this particular putter and put it under his pillow. It doesn't say that Scotty had never seen this putter before. Maybe Bettinardi did come up with the design and he probably did mill them....but it doesn't say anything there that leads me to believe that....and just because it isn't there, doesn't mean that it isn't true....I can only go by what I know and have read.

2) Scotty designed and created this putter as a gift to Kathy for the birth of their first child. A putter as a gift for your wife! Give this a go on your next wedding anniversary or your wife's birthday. See how well a putter as a gift "to" your wife goes over.

 

- It says that he designed the putter as a gift to his friends having their first child. Doesn't say anything about a gift to his wife, it says she put it under his pillow.

3) Scotty designed and created this putter after a Japanese touring pro cut an Anser in half and welded the two halves together to create a smaller headed putter. Anser's were cast. Byron was, at that time making the DH-9, a mini or 3/4 sized version of an Anser. Byron was selling his putters in Japan at the time. Would a touring professional take an Anser and cut a section out of the middle, weld it back together or just go out and pick up a completed version, the DH-9?

 

- Would a tour player put lead tape on a putter to change weight or just have his supplier make him a heavier version? Would a tour player have Cameron make him an almost exact copy of his old anser or just get an old anser? Would a tour player have a putter maker cut off the neck of a putter and have him weld on a different neck?

4) Create your own version of what happened and how the Classic I Mini came to be.

 

- Based on this post and what I remember from other posts.....here is my opinion (and there are still a lot of questions in it). I have no idea who came up with the idea for the mini....sounds to me like it was Byron's :lol: . Did Cameron think of making one first to give to his friends, did Bettinardi think of making one first as a design project, or did a tour player ask for one first because he wanted a smaller putter? I have no idea but could believe any of those. I do assume that Bettinardi did the milling....that isn't hard for me to believe. I also think (IMO) that the mini was already done before the 'under the pillow incident'....maybe Scotty had Bettinardi make 4 of them to use as gifts to his friends for their first chiled.....then Scotty's wife went to Bettinardi and asked him to mill some more to 'surprise' Scotty with the one under the pillow and maybe he made 4 since it was easier or it just made more sense than just making one....so we get to 8 total. As for the timing of when they were made (before/after Titleist), I have no idea. Scotty might also consider this 'second run' a different putter - might be slightly different?(this is from my opinion, I have no idea if there was a second run, a third run, or 30 of them were made - just trying to put together a story based on the little that I do know).

 

As for the 1/5 issue...that is a tough one. Certainly contradicts what is on the site. Then again, what is Cameron considering a classic mini....or maybe the 'second run' was after....either way it looks like more than 4 were made so that statement might be 'true' on the site but it is a very misleading. Could also be (like I said in my made up story above) that he had 4 mini's made for his friends and then this gift is the fifth....and the other 3 are still out there and maybe with bettinardi still. Was his first born before or after the titleist merger? If is was after, it even makes a little more sense about the 'second run'.

 

I'm not trying to contradict what you say or defend Cameron. I'm just coming up with my own opinion based on stories, facts, rumors, guesses, etc. You probably know a lot more about this than me....if fact, I can guarantee it. But, if the complete story isn't going to be said...then the best I can do is come up with my own opinion based on all these snipets, quotes, fights, etc.

------------------------------------------

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/putters/archi...amp;seasonID=16

 

Scotty made the Classic Mini, a miniature version of the Classic 1, as a gift for his friends having 1st born children. There were fewer than 5 of these putters produced before the merger with Titleist. His wife Kathy, to announce her pregnancy with their daughter Summer Lynne, left this particular Mini under Scotty's pillow. You can see the black markings on the putter where Scotty would handstamp the corresponding names and markings and have the putter gun blued to a beautiful finish.

[Pure745]

Nick, you're the man.. a true class act. Coming from another former "PG'er" :)

[hodges]

Nick first off I am not an owner, am not a moderator or in anyway connected to the cameron studios so it is not "Your(TCC) Version". I do have a Titleist account and am connected to Scotty that way. My comment about thier being 2 sides to a story is not meant as a bash of you.

I wasn't there when the decision for/or by you to make a career change was made. Anytime something like that happens in life there will be different stories because the 2 individual parties will view the events differently. Just like looking at a glass of wine and trying to decide if it is half full or half empty. I think all of your friends wish you well in chasing your dream of being a tour putter distributor.

 

Nick you have lived a chramed life. You have been places that most putter collectors would die for.

I remember sending things to you at your dorm while you were still in college in Iowa. No one disputes that you may have bought and sold as many Cameron putters as anyone.

 

You didn't know that Cameron putters were milled by Bob before you went to work at Art of Putting? Wasn't you paying attention,

 

I do have a question about the original subject, mini putters.

In this thread you are selling Bob's version on the mini, how come there are only 7 of them if milled putters come off the machine in pairs? Shouldn't there be 8 or 6 or 12? That is what got Nick P flamed by F because he said the Cameron mini was limited to an odd number.

http://puttertalk.com/community/index.php?...c=3298.msg37584

 

As for saving all your emails and pm's, make sure you back them up. Not to long ago my hard drive took a dump and I lost a lot of stuff I wish I had now.

 

I don't think you have been quite lost to history on TCC.

I typed in your name in the search box and this is what I got.

There are 12 pages of mention of the name venno.

 

Hello pgagreg July 11, 2009, 06:29:09 AM

 

 

The Cameron Collector > Search > Search Results

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 ... 12

Subject Relevance Started by Date Posted

V ( Nick Venson ) leaving AOP for School!

in The Club House

 

 

V ( Nick Venson ) leaving AOP for School! by RP 55% RP October 23, 2006, 01:30:23 AM

V vs BMAC Battle #2

in The Club House

 

 

Re: V vs BMAC Battle #2 by CoreyLaker 45.5% RP March 22, 2006, 07:56:45 AM

V's new 009!!!

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Re: V's new 009!!! by steve77 37.2% noodle3872 September 07, 2006, 01:48:27 AM

V's Collection

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Re: V's Collection by gburgs 30.1% Venno January 02, 2006, 08:30:53 AM

V the Great

in The Club House

 

 

V the Great by Cofey 28.9% Cofey September 12, 2006, 04:42:17 AM

Vog...Vog Who?

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Re: Vog...Vog Who? by RP 28.4% Venno February 03, 2006, 03:43:08 AM

Looking to buy....

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Re: Looking to buy.... by lynnlannva 28.4% Venno July 11, 2006, 03:59:43 AM

Help Out and Old Boy...

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Re: Help Out and Old Boy... by RP 28% Venno August 22, 2006, 05:56:49 PM

Scotty Cameron & Co. Sterling & Stainless Newport 1998

in Scotty Cameron Talk

 

 

Re: Scotty Cameron & Co. Sterling & Stainless Newport 1998 by RP 25.5% Cofey September 26, 2006, 11:31:31 AM

V

in Member Feedback

 

 

Re: V by copperhead 25.4% Venno March 08, 2006, 10:41:42 PM

Tiger Using a New Wedge? SMT Golf maybe?

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Re: Tiger Using a New Wedge? SMT Golf maybe? by Tapin5

V hows the shoulder ? 25.3% Venno June 20, 2007, 04:11:25 AM

Anyone playing on Wednesday am????

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Anyone playing on Wednesday am???? by Tridleist 25.1% Tridleist January 23, 2007, 12:44:40 AM

Unique Piece

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Re: Unique Piece by georgiat01336 24.5% TravisLeeClark April 22, 2009, 03:09:05 PM

Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT

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Re: Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT by ryan_atlanta 22.7% Venno October 04, 2006, 04:19:29 AM

Bad shoulder equals good putting?

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Re: Bad shoulder equals good putting? by drchipinski 22.4% Venno July 08, 2007, 09:27:13 PM

Golden Boy

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Re: Golden Boy by RP 22.4% 007Bluto March 27, 2006, 11:28:26 PM

Buyers be aware of this putter on eBAy--- Not authentic per Scotty!

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Re: Buyers be aware of this putter on eBAy--- Not authentic per Scotty! by MarkCuranovic 20.6% MarkCuranovic October 03, 2007, 09:28:41 PM

Anybody hear from V lately?

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Re: Anybody hear from V lately? by drchipinski 20.5% Tridleist June 08, 2007, 01:08:52 PM

ALL THE 009's UNITE HERE! If you have one, plz share it!

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Re: ALL THE 009's UNITE HERE! If you have one, plz share it! by localfitch 20.4% NSalvatore September 14, 2006, 12:01:18 AM

Head Cover Irregularities: Fakes or Quality Issues?

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Re: Head Cover Irregularities: Fakes or Quality Issues? by smjr5 20.3% ire January 12, 2007, 07:51:21 PM

Shannon's Collection - Updated 13th October

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Re: Shannon's Collection by shannon_henwood 20.3% shannon_henwood December 07, 2005, 07:39:36 AM

How many of us are going to Table Rock in June

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Re: How many of us are going to Table Rock in June by CSCUP 20.3% MarkCuranovic January 30, 2007, 02:37:23 AM

Japanese Fan Club headcover...

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Re: Japanese Fan Club headcover... by jcigars 20.2% genghis May 30, 2006, 07:39:36 AM

Re: The Rules Of Golf: Link to the USGA

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Re: The Rules Of Golf: Link to the USGA by RP 20.2% RP January 09, 2006, 06:43:30 AM

PGA SHOW WEEKEND THANK YOU!

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PGA SHOW WEEKEND THANK YOU! by E MAN 20.2% E MAN January 29, 2006, 08:08:11 PM

I Started Collecting Circa June 2005

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Re: I Started Collecting Circa June 2005 by RP 20.2% Snowman December 24, 2005, 10:17:34 PM

Vegas 07 Headcover available now!!!!!!

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Re: Vegas 07 Headcover available now!!!!!! by localfitch 20.1% MIKE5621 October 08, 2007, 06:39:11 PM

Harleygolfer

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Re: Harleygolfer by RP 20.1% harleygolfer May 18, 2006, 10:41:24 AM

Cameron3putt's putter collection

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Re: Cameron3putt's putter collection by cameron3putt 20.1% cameron3putt December 13, 2005, 12:02:37 AM

Re: top 25 college football

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Re: top 25 college football by 007Bluto 20.1% Snowman July 31, 2006, 05:56:18 AM

 

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 ... 12

 

 

FOB = Friend of Bob's

 

Nick if you are asking about JR and others posts they were removed at their requests, sure I miss the information but it was their request to be removed not TCC's idea.

If you asking about posts being deleted because they violated the rules of the site, well those are the rules and if you want to post on the site you have to follow the rules. Doug set those rules and there still there today. If people vanish or get banned well there were many tht deserved it and a few that didn't

If your asking about someone else? who?

If it is yourself, there are 2 sides to that story and I don't have first hand info so what could I say.

 

Greg,

Of course there are two sides to my story, Your(TCC) Version, and the truth....but we wont even go there today. Those in the know, know the truth, and truthfully I dont know how they sleep at night. Those who think they know, defend the story they have been told by their superiors. Hopefully one day the real truth does get revealed, but I wont hold my breath. I have saved every email I ever received and sent from 2003-Today.. much like Bob Bettinardi has saved every fax and order he has filled for putters.

 

I have a feeling that even the thought that I have emails from my time in FOV, or that Bob has an order from 1995 or a drawing or a fax from 1997 would make some uneasy, and also why it makes it easier for them to just try and forget about the past, what was made, and what was seen or not seen. Makes it easy to delete a persons posts and accounts, make every mention of their name change from one name to a new name all to discredit that person later on so that if he says ya I have been here or there, done this or that, seen something i wasnt supposed to see, or should I say not see what I should have seen. By making them vanish you remove them from the record, and allow newbies to have two options. Trust the guy that no longer is allowed on TCC and has no record of existing, or trust their moderators and superiors...strange if you ask me.

 

Again I ask, who has spent hours picking both Bob's and Scotty's brain the way I have? Played golf with them numerous times, had dinners, hosted events with, hung out in the studio with, placed orders with both, dare I say was even friends with both! I think you get the point. NOBODY else has done that...and I doubt anyone else ever will. I have seen it all. But because I was banished so I cant share this info with those that deserve to know.

 

I am just happy to have met Bob Bettinardi, and talked to other puttermakers as well since my Cameron days, i have learned a lot and now know the truth about the niche market of collectible putters. I was young (21) and naive when I was hired to sell Tour Camerons for a living, ya I was 21! LOL what did they see in me? What did I do or know that made someone make me an excellent offer to leave school early to sell putters? Little did I know it would lead me back to chicago to work for the guy who actually milled/engineered the putters that made me start collecting... funny how things work. I started collecting Camerons, got a job selling camerons, only to find that my favorite camerons were actually made by someone in chicago named bettinardi. I tell my friends this information, and they ban me from my hobby...pretty sad in my opinion. I chalk it up as a great life lesson, dont trust handshakes, and always save everything.

 

Nick Venson

[geogolf]

"In this thread you are selling Bob's version on the mini, how come there are only 7 of them if milled putters come off the machine in pairs"

 

Since they (the Bettinardis) are Alum/Bronze- I know the answer :-) But will let Venno take care of it .

[Pondy]

Doesn't that seem to be the least antagonistic explanation. I can't believe it took me a dozen beers to think of that.

 

xxio, we're sitting at the same table, my friend... Cheers! :drinks:

[hodges]

George your such a tease.

I want to learn new stuff.

Is there a different milling process with Alum/Bronze?

Does Alum/Bronze come in a different size bar.

Tell me, tell me please.

Greg

 

"In this thread you are selling Bob's version on the mini, how come there are only 7 of them if milled putters come off the machine in pairs"

 

Since they (the Bettinardis) are Alum/Bronze- I know the answer :-) But will let Venno take care of it .

[hodges]

Nick I put Venno in the search box because that was your user name. didn't you pick it out yourself?

You were never referred to as V?

The topic of your feedback thread is "V'

Why put that as the topic if no one called you that.

Maybe you should read a few of the other posts where you are referred to as V.

Heres one,

Mr. Doug

Hero Member

 

Offline

 

Posts: 5264

 

 

 

Re: V vs BMAC Battle #2

« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2006, 03:32:25 AM » Quote

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ric and I were fortunate enough to witness every gruling....everything. I wouldn't say that V fought TOO valiantly...but you DID get your a** kicked! In V's defense...he had to deal with Ric and I snickering, and the mound of balls I put into the OB was blocking the sun!

 

If anyone finds 39 Bridgestone E6 balls, and 12 Noodles on a course in So-Cal....send them back to me please. =)

 

 

or here's one you signed as "V"

Venno

Guest

Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT

« on: October 04, 2006, 04:19:29 AM » Quote

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok well call me crazy....but I have seen dozens of collectors/sellers on ebay take pictures of so called mint or near mint classics, tour putters, victory, etc.... laying on rocks, conctrete, stone, etc....

 

Am I crazy or is that not the last thing you would want to show as far as how you take care of your putters for sale or otherwise?

 

JAT

V

 

As for the other part of your question (and you too JR) I got to mow the lawn before it rains again. I will try and get back on later to find what your looking for.

 

JR I never said Doug didn't own PT. What I said was it was run by John and John, one which has the same quality of information and agenda as Foregasim.

 

greg

 

 

 

Greg I would first like to start with two things you said....

 

You didn't know that Cameron putters were milled by Bob before you went to work at Art of Putting? Wasn't you paying attention,

 

I don't think you have been quite lost to history on TCC.

I typed in your name in the search box and this is what I got.

There are 12 pages of mention of the name venno.

 

Hello pgagreg July 11, 2009, 06:29:09 AM

 

 

The Cameron Collector > Search > Search Results

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 ... 12

Subject Relevance Started by Date Posted

V ( Nick Venson ) leaving AOP for School!

in The Club House

 

Anyone playing on Wednesday am???? by Tridleist 25.1% Tridleist January 23, 2007, 12:44:40 AM

Unique Piece

in Tour/Prototype/Victory

 

 

Re: Unique Piece by georgiat01336 24.5% TravisLeeClark April 22, 2009, 03:09:05 PM

Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT

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Re: Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT by ryan_atlanta 22.7% Venno October 04, 2006, 04:19:29 AM

Bad shoulder equals good putting?

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Re: Bad shoulder equals good putting? by drchipinski 22.4% Venno July 08, 2007, 09:27:13 PM

Golden Boy

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Re: Golden Boy by RP 22.4% 007Bluto March 27, 2006, 11:28:26 PM

Buyers be aware of this putter on eBAy--- Not authentic per Scotty!

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Re: Vegas 07 Headcover available now!!!!!! by localfitch 20.1% MIKE5621 October 08, 2007, 06:39:11 PM

Harleygolfer

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Re: Harleygolfer by RP 20.1% harleygolfer May 18, 2006, 10:41:24 AM

Cameron3putt's putter collection

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Re: Cameron3putt's putter collection by cameron3putt 20.1% cameron3putt December 13, 2005, 12:02:37 AM

Re: top 25 college football

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Re: top 25 college football by 007Bluto 20.1% Snowman July 31, 2006, 05:56:18 AM

 

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 ... 12

 

One, of me not being removed from the record. As you can plainly see. When you search VENNO...a list of things with V show up. I was never referred to as V, only Venno. V is not my name, and nobody ever called me that while I was still there. Also a few posts which make me look bad and my full Name Nick Venson are still there, allowing those who search VENSON to find things right away that dont shed the best light on me, and were posts that I had no opportunity to say my side of the story on.

 

Two, about me not knowing Bob milled Camerons prior to going to California...i knew Bob and Scotty had some sort of relationship early on, but had no idea of the true extent.

 

GREG, if Bob Bettinardi milling putters for Scotty Cameron for 6 years in the 90's is so obvious and I missed it, can you please show me where on TCC or on Camerons site this information in mentioned to the newbie collectors?

[add1]

I think we're going off topic again.It was about the 5 mini scottys.Now I have read a lot of posts so far by all means not all and do not intend to, but from what I take from both sides is Nick I don't doubt Mr Cameron ordered 5 putters and that somebody is stupid enough to spend $40000 dollars on one.On the other hand what foregasim has wrote and backed up with posts and clearly is well connected has also got to be given respect.Is it not fair to asume that there are 8 putters in exsistence which leads me to my question.The 3 missing putters must be of even greater value than the 5 that have been stamped by Cameron.With the history of the story the chances Bettinardi ever working with Cameron again is unlikely.From what I have read,Can I also belive that a high percentage of the best Camerons ever made are down to RJB.Boy if I was Mr Cameron I would do my best to re-write history.Now if I have read the posts wrong NO OFFENCE WAS MEANT IN THIS POST.Nick and Foregasim you know a tremendous amount about Camerons and the history and depending on what side you sit the truth will be slightly different.Look I'm English and only just discovered that the French won the second world war how scary is that.

[rrkman]

I think we're going off topic again.It was about the 5 mini scottys.Now I have read a lot of posts so far by all means not all and do not intend to, but from what I take from both sides is Nick I don't doubt Mr Cameron ordered 5 putters and that somebody is stupid enough to spend $40000 dollars on one.On the other hand what foregasim has wrote and backed up with posts and clearly is well connected has also got to be given respect.Is it not fair to asume that there are 8 putters in exsistence which leads me to my question.The 3 missing putters must be of even greater value than the 5 that have been stamped by Cameron.With the history of the story the chances Bettinardi ever working with Cameron again is unlikely.From what I have read,Can I also belive that a high percentage of the best Camerons ever made are down to RJB.Boy if I was Mr Cameron I would do my best to re-write history.Now if I have read the posts wrong NO OFFENCE WAS MEANT IN THIS POST.Nick and Foregasim you know a tremendous amount about Camerons and the history and depending on what side you sit the truth will be slightly different.Look I'm English and only just discovered that the French won the second world war how scary is that.

 

Nice...someone else that is actually interested in the whole story.

 

But, I would like to offer my opinion on some of your opinions....if that's ok.

 

- you should read all the post.....you can find some useful info hidden (since nobody can actual post a whole story and instead just put little snipets here or there)....although, there are some pretty useless posts that you could just skim over to save time.

 

-I think that the key word is ordered. Until I hear from both Bettinardi and Cameron and they can agree on the story....or a I see a copy of the 'order' that I feel is authentic, I have no idea how many were actually ordered. (Also, it sounds like Bettinard keeps everything so feel free to send me a scan of the original order but don't change anything on it :) ) Were only 4 made, I don't think so. Were only 5 made, I don't think so. Were 6/8/10/50 made, I have no idea. Personally, my current opinion is that Cameron had him make 4 to give as gifts to his friends having their first child. Then, Cameron's wife was looking for one to put under the pillow to tell him that she was pregnant. Did Bettinardi have to make more....were more than 4 made originally and he still had them....I don't know. Also, when I hear that the number is 5 I'm assuming that this includes the 4 that were made for friends and the one under the pillow. I can easily accept that more than 5 were made though.

 

- I've seen people spend outrageous amounts of money on things that could be had for pennies on the dollar....why, because they can. Certainly crazy but $40,000 to some is like $0.04 to me. BTW, I don't think the putter was ever sold for that....but there is a story that a previous transaction occured (not necessarily all cash) that put the value around $35,000.

 

- I think just about everyone can agree that Bettinardi is great at his craft. I don't know the history of his business but have read that his company has also done numerous projects for the military. I doubt that, when dealing with military equipment, quality variances and/or tolerances are acceptable. But, determining what putters are the best is a tough discussion. I'm sure that there are some people who feel that the bettinardi camerons are by far the best. You could also find some that think the current camerons are the best. You could also find some that think both are crap. Just personal opinion and preference. You could also argue based on wins, etc.....but does that mean the putters are the best or the people using them are the best?....up to you to decide. Personally, I love my current cameron (studio select) and I doubt that either of them ever touched it.

 

- It seems like both sides know a lot of info....it would be great to get all of them (including Bettinardi and Cameron) in a room and BS over some drinks....but sounds like that ain't gonna happen.

 

- news to me, I thought the Swiss won WWII?

[add1]

Thanks for post but as for reading every post,sorry not going to happen there are to many pro, anti Cameron people now and polar opinions are not always benificial to the disscusion.Plus I think I might have attention deficet disorder,sorry only joking.What I ment by the best is there are some legendry putters the 007,009 now the mini were these made by Cameron or RJB.The first of the terillium putters would be similar given that it gave Tiger his first major,also Tiger's current pro platinium is this post RJB or pre and then refinished.My opinion means little but feel modern Scotty's have gone down the road of we must bring out something new every 6,12 months regardless and is a bit like the emperors new clothes.Now I don't hate Camerons I own 2 terilliums and each to there own.As for the Swiss winning the war no (they just stole all the money)

[rrkman]

Still have lots of comments and questions....too bad I can't post them. Having a lot of issues with the site....oh well.

 

Figures that this is the one post that actually makes it on......

 

Here is a short version of one of my attempted posts that I copied......

 

The bigger problem is that this site is having some serious issues (or I am). Just look at the post times...and I just typed a fairly long post but it just disappeared while adding it.

 

cal-only - we've talked about this when it was happening. What I would like to say is that there are a lot of great people there as well. Plus, you see the same thing on just about every forum out there (including this one and the other populat golf forums). Heck, I've seen it on the biggest disney forum, isn't that supposed to be the happiest place on earth? Personally, I'll be careful as to how online stuff affects me......it certainly will but personal experiece and personal preference will be weighed a little heavier. Best of luck with whatever collecting route you take.

 

Venno - I think most people know that Venno and Venson are the same....and should be treated that way. But not my site or decision....I'm not even a pawn in this game....just a spectator.

 

The other thing that still confuses me is the weight put on the geocities blog....I would really like to know why only the names that stayed at TCC are associated with this in a negative way....aren't there other people (that left) in those threads as well?...and probably safe to assume that some of the other PT guys were part of the 'club' as well? Were they all forgiven? Personally, I don't put much weight on a small portion of much larger conversation....I believe they call that taking it out of context. I hate bringing it up again but this has always been a little confusing to me...even when I saw it months and months ago.

 

I'm glad that some useful information is coming out.....hopefully it can become more documentart and less soap opera....but somehow I doubt that.

[youraway2]

I am excited to read more of foregasim 's posts.

 

+1

 

foregasim provides some very good information and links - Thanks good reading - also one would be a fool to turn down 40K for a Ping Anser replica.

[rrkman]

By the way, it is pretty common knowledge by those that were involved with TCC and decided to leave that a few of the current TCC moderators continually edit the content of other members posts so that they actually read something other than what the original posted said. I am not talking about grammatical corrections or deletion of obscene language. I am talking about an edit and change to the actual wording so that what the original posted stated, and what is associated with that person now reads something different and there is no footnote informing the reader that this has occurred.

 

When reading some of these old posts you have no assurance that what was posted is what you are now reading. Typical action when you want to paint a different version of history than what actually occurred.

 

I'm not going to argue about whether or not this is true....and if it is, I am completely against it. Hopefully it doesn't happen anywhere but I'm sure mods on lots of sites tend to take their power a little too far and seriously....still doesn't make it right. But, what I am going to ask about is why only the negative. Hopefully you understand what I'm saying. I only get a very general accusation by a complete stranger on the internet. I have no idea if things have been changed or not changed...if things have been changed to reflect positively or negatively..... I mean how do I get from 'they changed things in a post without telling anyone' to 'they did it because they are trying to hide the truth'? Hopefully, that makes sense. Were you involved in this, do you know why it was done, do know exactly what was done and changed?

 

Hopefully you understand that this neutralizes the so called facts that you copied and pasted from that site....it also neutralizes the geocities blog. How much of either of those 2 things should I believe? Did someone change the geocities posts to reflect negatively, then copy it as ammo? Did someone change the post about Mr. Butler saying how many mini's there are...I think that is what the post was about? Call me a homer, a fanboy, whatever....I'm just playing devil's advocate because I'm having a hard time following some of these arguments. I'm not doubting the things you supposedly know, I would just like to have the facts and decide on my own as to why and what was done. If you can't believe what is posted there because of whatever reason....then you're discrediting the entire site, not just what you don't want to use for your argument.

 

Thanks,

 

Randy

[OnFire]

LOL. 40k for a Cameron. Never ceases to amaze the amount of people out there who pay for stuff like this. Why not just buy a nice CNC, and make a few hundred yourself, stamp them with YOUR name and you're in business! Sheesh....

[hodges]

Nick I put Venno in the search box because that was your user name. didn't you pick it out yourself?

You were never referred to as V?

The topic of your feedback thread is "V'

Why put that as the topic if no one called you that.

Maybe you should read a few of the other posts where you are referred to as V.

Heres one,

Mr. Doug

Hero Member

 

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Re: V vs BMAC Battle #2

« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2006, 03:32:25 AM » Quote

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ric and I were fortunate enough to witness every gruling....everything. I wouldn't say that V fought TOO valiantly...but you DID get your a** kicked! In V's defense...he had to deal with Ric and I snickering, and the mound of balls I put into the OB was blocking the sun!

 

If anyone finds 39 Bridgestone E6 balls, and 12 Noodles on a course in So-Cal....send them back to me please. =)

 

 

or here's one you signed as "V"

Venno

Guest

Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT

« on: October 04, 2006, 04:19:29 AM » Quote

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok well call me crazy....but I have seen dozens of collectors/sellers on ebay take pictures of so called mint or near mint classics, tour putters, victory, etc.... laying on rocks, conctrete, stone, etc....

 

Am I crazy or is that not the last thing you would want to show as far as how you take care of your putters for sale or otherwise?

 

JAT

V

 

As for the other part of your question (and you too JR) I got to mow the lawn before it rains again. I will try and get back on later to find what your looking for.

 

JR I never said Doug didn't own PT. What I said was it was run by John and John, one which has the same quality of information and agenda as Foregasim.

 

greg

 

 

 

Greg I would first like to start with two things you said....

 

You didn't know that Cameron putters were milled by Bob before you went to work at Art of Putting? Wasn't you paying attention,

 

I don't think you have been quite lost to history on TCC.

I typed in your name in the search box and this is what I got.

There are 12 pages of mention of the name venno.

 

Hello pgagreg July 11, 2009, 06:29:09 AM

 

 

The Cameron Collector > Search > Search Results

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 ... 12

Subject Relevance Started by Date Posted

V ( Nick Venson ) leaving AOP for School!

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Anyone playing on Wednesday am???? by Tridleist 25.1% Tridleist January 23, 2007, 12:44:40 AM

Unique Piece

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Re: Unique Piece by georgiat01336 24.5% TravisLeeClark April 22, 2009, 03:09:05 PM

Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT

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Re: Scotty Cameron Putters....what not to do-JAT by ryan_atlanta 22.7% Venno October 04, 2006, 04:19:29 AM

Bad shoulder equals good putting?

in Friends of Vog..

 

 

Re: Bad shoulder equals good putting? by drchipinski 22.4% Venno July 08, 2007, 09:27:13 PM

Golden Boy

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Re: Golden Boy by RP 22.4% 007Bluto March 27, 2006, 11:28:26 PM

Buyers be aware of this putter on eBAy--- Not authentic per Scotty!

in Scotty Cameron Talk

 

Re: Vegas 07 Headcover available now!!!!!! by localfitch 20.1% MIKE5621 October 08, 2007, 06:39:11 PM

Harleygolfer

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Re: Harleygolfer by RP 20.1% harleygolfer May 18, 2006, 10:41:24 AM

Cameron3putt's putter collection

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Re: Cameron3putt's putter collection by cameron3putt 20.1% cameron3putt December 13, 2005, 12:02:37 AM

Re: top 25 college football

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Re: top 25 college football by 007Bluto 20.1% Snowman July 31, 2006, 05:56:18 AM

 

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 ... 12

 

One, of me not being removed from the record. As you can plainly see. When you search VENNO...a list of things with V show up. I was never referred to as V, only Venno. V is not my name, and nobody ever called me that while I was still there. Also a few posts which make me look bad and my full Name Nick Venson are still there, allowing those who search VENSON to find things right away that dont shed the best light on me, and were posts that I had no opportunity to say my side of the story on.

 

Two, about me not knowing Bob milled Camerons prior to going to California...i knew Bob and Scotty had some sort of relationship early on, but had no idea of the true extent.

 

GREG, if Bob Bettinardi milling putters for Scotty Cameron for 6 years in the 90's is so obvious and I missed it, can you please show me where on TCC or on Camerons site this information in mentioned to the newbie collectors?

 

LOL are you serious Greg? V IS WHAT THEY CHANGED EVERY REFERENCE TO VENNO TO! LMFAO Cmon Greg I know you knew that!

 

Venno I am old and must have memory loss.

I truly believe you and apologize for my wrongful accusation that you posted as V

http://web.archive.org/web/20060430020105/...x.php?board=8.0

[bweeks]

forgasim, you made mention of Tiger's current gamer? Could you please elaborate on it, I would love to hear the story behind it. Not trying to change the topic but it sure sounds like an interesting story.

Your posts are very informative and seem to be backed by factual information, why not either write a book on this or just come out and tell us ALL you know about the Betinardi/Cameron relationship?

[add1]

The editing of content on TCC was very common place after the changing of the guard so to speak. That is one of the main reasons that some former members demanded that their posts be changed, because one or more of the new moderators was editing the past posts to read they way he wanted them to read. Yes there was heated discussions about this on TCC but, you guessed it, those posts have since been removed.

 

On another topic that someone asked about earlier in the thread:

 

Made In The USA, Assembled In The USA, etc.

 

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus03.shtm

 

Read the entire page, not just skimming sections and you will find answers about why Cameron was using Assembled In The USA at one point in time.

So if Cameron was buying mostly, for example (components from China).This must be very dissapointing for an American to hear. Camerons are sold on the premis that you are getting a premium product and price is reflected in this.To just assemble the components in the USA is poor showing.Your nation put men on the moon at some point in time have a look at youselves is it worth selling out for a few more dollars profit.Cameron you are the omnipotent one of marketing people pay silly amounts for your putters I have, just keep it all American and sleep easy

[rrkman]

So if Cameron was buying mostly, for example (components from China).This must be very dissapointing for an American to hear. Camerons are sold on the premis that you are getting a premium product and price is reflected in this.To just assemble the components in the USA is poor showing.Your nation put men on the moon at some point in time have a look at youselves is it worth selling out for a few more dollars profit.Cameron you are the omnipotent one of marketing people pay silly amounts for your putters I have, just keep it all American and sleep easy

 

I don't completely agree with this. Quality products can be made elsewhere. I would certainly rather see us keep the dollars in the US (sorry to our foreign members) but it isn't always possible or feasible. The other thing is that this could have been a titleist decision based on margin.....was it Cameron's idea.....if not, could he had stopped it.....was the product still of great quality. Don't know the answers to most of those. I will say that there have been numerous times that a company I worked for was able to find better quality products for a lower price by going outside the US. Certainly not defending or attacking the move until I know why it was done. Like I said, was Cameron thinking about lining his pockets...was titleist in charge of picking a production location, was the quality as good as what they could have gotten on similar large runs in the US (I don't know much about bettinardi's capabilites but I'm assuming that among other reasons, he could not make putters for cameron anymore because of capacity issues with a production line of putters?)...so if not bettinardi, where could they get these large runs of putter made? Where they are now? Seems like a lot of people have a problem with that place as well, right?

 

I also think that saying buy american only, even if it costs a few more dollars is irresponsible. I will try to keep this out of politics but personally, I'm not going to pay a couple more dollars for something so that some guy can take a 6 hour lunch and actually work 2 hours. Plus, todays market is a global market...so if you can honestly say that you only buy things that are purely american, then feel free to use that comment...but I highly doubt that is true.

 

Personally, without knowing much about the whole bettinardi/cameron situation....I would have loved to see what they would have been able to come up with as a team.

 

Also, if Cameron said that his putters were always made in the usa....and it seems like they weren't, or is this not true...I find that irresponsible and inappropriate. But, what it comes down to is that it probably won't change my putter. I use my putter because it works for me. I didn't pick it because it was 'made in the USA' (sorry if you find me unpatriotic)...I didn't pick it because it was hand milled by a specific person....I didn't pick it because of a high cost or perceived value....I didn't pick it because I might be able to make money on it.....I picked it up to try (based on opinions from numerous sources - personal friends to complete strangers) and liked it - so now it is my gamer.

[Jesperday]

But, I would like to offer my opinion on some of your opinions....if that's ok.

 

 

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!