Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[TheCheat]

Will it ever end?

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=270852

[varsityhacker]

Someone actually bought a block of metal from Scotty that was not ever made into a putter but, was simply in line to be made. Wow, he really can put his name on anything and sell it.

[hodges]

...Same as the scottinardi putter. If Bob put an experimental milling on a putterhead he was making for Scotty, does that make it a "real" Scotty. Everyone has an opinion, Scotty says no. But if you are a basher you will just use this as another example of what is wrong with the world.

Greg Hodges

( my real name)

 

Off to fold some sweaters

 

Do you have an opinion, or do you only follow Scotty's opinion?

 

The real question is why not leave information out there and let people form their OWN opinions? Instead, posts and data are deleted. And because Scotty says no, all must obey.

 

My opinion:

Is is a Cameron Newport head? Yes.

Does it have prototype face milling? Yes.

Did Scotty approve or authorize it? Probably not.

Would it still fall under "experimental" or "prototype"? Yes

Does the fact that "non approved" milling on the face make it any less of a Cameron Newport? No. It's stll a Cameron Newport head

 

Why not let others form their own opinions and you can agree to disagree?

 

I have an opinion on many things. What would you like to know about?

I also believe that along with the right to have an opinion comes the responsibility to respect others opinions. It is a fine line between respecting and trying to convince someone your opinion is more worthy than theirs.

[hodges]

Your copy of Mat's post about his conversation with Jim says there were 5 finished putters and 3 others.

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Hey, here are two unfinished putters that got a A COA's. Are they "Authentic" Cameron items? If not why do they have an A COA issued for them. As usually Scotty and his followers apply different rules depending upon who has possession of the collectable item and how they want to paint the picture, usually for monetary reasons and to benefit or punish some third party.

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010226

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010227

 

As for the honeycomb milled Titleist/Cameron Newport, it was made as a prototype like many other putters that eventually received approval for production or use. In this case, Scotty decided to pass on the option to change the face milling to the honeycomb milling, a decision he greatly regrets to this day, or so I was told by one of the Cameron distributors.

 

 

I will be the first admit I have never seen the mini's at Bobs factory. Can someone post pictures.

Because if your example of unfinished putters getting A coa's is the 2 blocks of steel you cited, I am not sure I would call them "putters"

[rrkman]

Do you have an opinion, or do you only follow Scotty's opinion?

 

The real question is why not leave information out there and let people form their OWN opinions? Instead, posts and data are deleted. And because Scotty says no, all must obey.

 

My opinion:

Is is a Cameron Newport head? Yes.

Does it have prototype face milling? Yes.

Did Scotty approve or authorize it? Probably not.

Would it still fall under "experimental" or "prototype"? Yes

Does the fact that "non approved" milling on the face make it any less of a Cameron Newport? No. It's stll a Cameron Newport head

 

Why not let others form their own opinions and you can agree to disagree?

 

First, let me see if I have the scenario correct - While bettinardi was milling heads for cameron, he (on his own) experimented with the honeycomb design on a cameron head. Cameron chose not to go with it. Bettinardi used it for his own designs.

 

My opinion - it is a cameron newport head. From a collector standpoint, it would probably be a great piece to have but I wouldn't call it a Scotty Cameron putter .... I would call it a cameron head that was altered. I think it all comes down to if Cameron authorized it....if he did, then I would call it a Cameron prototype....if he didn't, then I would call it a bettinardi experiment using a cameron head. JMO....hope the few facts that I do know are actually correct.

[Jesperday]

Kevin many of the removed posts on TCC were removed at the request of the original posters, JR-orgasim, JS, and others. When they were no longer members they didn't want to leave any record behind. So they requested their posts be removed.

 

So are you saying that no other posts were removed other than posts that the former members requested be removed? Everyone that believes that step forward and let me know I have some authentic Chinese cast spin milled Cameron's I want to sell that are real collectors items; Made For The Tour Only.

 

There were many many topics "purged" from the site when Scotty took over control of the site.

 

No I didn't say that, maybe you should re-read what I wrote.

I said "many" of the posts removed came from some of the former members who also happened to be some of the earliest members and posted a lot.

 

Do you have a list of all the removed posts so we can compare numbers?

 

Your copy of Mat's post about his conversation with Jim says there were 5 finished putters and 3 others.

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Same as the scottinardi putter. If Bob put an experimental milling on a putterhead he was making for Scotty, does that make it a "real" Scotty. Everyone has an opinion, Scotty says no. But if you are a basher you will just use this as another example of what is wrong with the world.

Greg Hodges

( my real name)

 

Off to fold some sweaters

 

 

Greg-

I guess we really can't argue whether or not Cameron feels a proto milling on one of his putters is considered authentic or not. After all.. they are his putters. My biggest question is why he says he has never held the putter in his hand or never seen the putter before? Could it be that Bob sent it off and someone else got a hold of it? Didn't Bob send a few other prototypes to other manufacturers? Surely Bob would let Scotty know a pretty sweet idea was coming his way?

 

For my opinion on that particular putter would be that if in fact Bob milled the putter and put Scotty's name on it then its a wonderful piece of history. To me, that is definitely a collectors item. Maybe not a Scotty Cameron "A" (for whatever reason) COA collectors item but definitely one to the putter world.

[blkdiamond]

Your copy of Mat's post about his conversation with Jim says there were 5 finished putters and 3 others.

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Hey, here are two unfinished putters that got a A COA's. Are they "Authentic" Cameron items? If not why do they have an A COA issued for them. As usually Scotty and his followers apply different rules depending upon who has possession of the collectable item and how they want to paint the picture, usually for monetary reasons and to benefit or punish some third party.

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010226

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010227

 

As for the honeycomb milled Titleist/Cameron Newport, it was made as a prototype like many other putters that eventually received approval for production or use. In this case, Scotty decided to pass on the option to change the face milling to the honeycomb milling, a decision he greatly regrets to this day, or so I was told by one of the Cameron distributors.

 

Very interesting. Here are a few questions I have:

 

1. How does that block of steel receive an A COA, but one of the Mini's has a B COA becuase it doesn't have a Scotty grip on it?

2. How can the grip, shaft, etc. be authentic if it doesn't even have one?

 

Crazy stuff.

[Jesperday]

My opinion - it is a cameron newport head. From a collector standpoint, it would probably be a great piece to have but I wouldn't call it a Scotty Cameron putter .... I would call it a cameron head that was altered. I think it all comes down to if Cameron authorized it....if he did, then I would call it a Cameron prototype....if he didn't, then I would call it a bettinardi experiment using a cameron head. JMO....hope the few facts that I do know are actually correct.

 

 

Did Scotty Cameron personally authorize my Buttonback when I sent it back to the Custom Shop? Does that mean it has been altered and not authentic? If the guys doing the work at the CS make the putter authentic surely the "Main Man" milling his putters would make it authentic.

[rrkman]

My opinion - it is a cameron newport head. From a collector standpoint, it would probably be a great piece to have but I wouldn't call it a Scotty Cameron putter .... I would call it a cameron head that was altered. I think it all comes down to if Cameron authorized it....if he did, then I would call it a Cameron prototype....if he didn't, then I would call it a bettinardi experiment using a cameron head. JMO....hope the few facts that I do know are actually correct.

 

 

Did Scotty Cameron personally authorize my Buttonback when I sent it back to the Custom Shop? Does that mean it has been altered and not authentic? If the guys doing the work at the CS make the putter authentic surely the "Main Man" milling his putters would make it authentic.

 

I think you're reaching a little there. I would guess that the guys in the custom shop were 'authorized' to do what you wanted done to you putter. Now, if one of those guys decided (on their own) to put a different milling on it, my opinion would be that it wasn't an authentic cameron design....JMO. But, this also brings up another question - what was Bettinardi's job, was it to mill putters or come up with new and exciting ideas? If it was the latter then I might have to rethink my opinion. I personally have no idea what his exact role was or what their relationship was.....like I've said before, I see a lot of quick claims here and there but cannot get all the details about them.

[Jesperday]

My opinion - it is a cameron newport head. From a collector standpoint, it would probably be a great piece to have but I wouldn't call it a Scotty Cameron putter .... I would call it a cameron head that was altered. I think it all comes down to if Cameron authorized it....if he did, then I would call it a Cameron prototype....if he didn't, then I would call it a bettinardi experiment using a cameron head. JMO....hope the few facts that I do know are actually correct.

 

 

Did Scotty Cameron personally authorize my Buttonback when I sent it back to the Custom Shop? Does that mean it has been altered and not authentic? If the guys doing the work at the CS make the putter authentic surely the "Main Man" milling his putters would make it authentic.

 

I think you're reaching a little there. I would guess that the guys in the custom shop were 'authorized' to do what you wanted done to you putter. Now, if one of those guys decided (on their own) to put a different milling on it, my opinion would be that it wasn't an authentic cameron design....JMO. But, this also brings up another question - what was Bettinardi's job, was it to mill putters or come up with new and exciting ideas? If it was the latter then I might have to rethink my opinion. I personally have no idea what his exact role was or what their relationship was.....like I've said before, I see a lot of quick claims here and there but cannot get all the details about them.

 

i think that's a great question to ask. was bob just a "mill boy" or did he have a more creative role in there relationship/contract etc. also, could there have possibly been other putters/millings bob came up with that scotty liked? i mean..wasn't the mini created by bob for scotty originally as a gift? did he have to authorize it before he accepted it? i wouldn't think it would be right to "cherry pick" which is authentic and which isn't. but..it is his company.

[Pure745]

Your copy of Mat's post about his conversation with Jim says there were 5 finished putters and 3 others.

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Hey, here are two unfinished putters that got a A COA's. Are they "Authentic" Cameron items? If not why do they have an A COA issued for them. As usually Scotty and his followers apply different rules depending upon who has possession of the collectable item and how they want to paint the picture, usually for monetary reasons and to benefit or punish some third party.

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010226

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010227

 

As for the honeycomb milled Titleist/Cameron Newport, it was made as a prototype like many other putters that eventually received approval for production or use. In this case, Scotty decided to pass on the option to change the face milling to the honeycomb milling, a decision he greatly regrets to this day, or so I was told by one of the Cameron distributors.

 

 

I will be the first admit I have never seen the mini's at Bobs factory. Can someone post pictures.

Because if your example of unfinished putters getting A coa's is the 2 blocks of steel you cited, I am not sure I would call them "putters"

 

Maybe if you participated more on the site instead of just being a drive by shooter taking pot shots at members instead of actually posting information about putters and such you would be more informed.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

The 5th picture down. It does not have a shaft so I guess it is unfinished.

 

Foregasm: Thanks a lot for reminding me about how great that trip was .. ahh.. back to work :russian_roulette:

[stage1350]

Your copy of Mat's post about his conversation with Jim says there were 5 finished putters and 3 others.

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Hey, here are two unfinished putters that got a A COA's. Are they "Authentic" Cameron items? If not why do they have an A COA issued for them. As usually Scotty and his followers apply different rules depending upon who has possession of the collectable item and how they want to paint the picture, usually for monetary reasons and to benefit or punish some third party.

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010226

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010227

 

As for the honeycomb milled Titleist/Cameron Newport, it was made as a prototype like many other putters that eventually received approval for production or use. In this case, Scotty decided to pass on the option to change the face milling to the honeycomb milling, a decision he greatly regrets to this day, or so I was told by one of the Cameron distributors.

 

 

I will be the first admit I have never seen the mini's at Bobs factory. Can someone post pictures.

Because if your example of unfinished putters getting A coa's is the 2 blocks of steel you cited, I am not sure I would call them "putters"

 

Maybe if you participated more on the site instead of just being a drive by shooter taking pot shots at members instead of actually posting information about putters and such you would be more informed.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

The 5th picture down. It does not have a shaft so I guess it is unfinished.

 

Or you could go back two pages in this thread. Pure posted the same photo in post #183. Granted, that was probably before the TCC Blitz was organized... :rolleyes:

[goinglow72]

Your copy of Mat's post about his conversation with Jim says there were 5 finished putters and 3 others.

Someone must have too much time on their hands if all you have to do is argue the definition of putters. Do unfinished putters count as putters, some people choose to count them and some don't.

Does that make anybody right or wrong?

 

Hey, here are two unfinished putters that got a A COA's. Are they "Authentic" Cameron items? If not why do they have an A COA issued for them. As usually Scotty and his followers apply different rules depending upon who has possession of the collectable item and how they want to paint the picture, usually for monetary reasons and to benefit or punish some third party.

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010226

http://www.scottycameron.com/authenticatio...egistry=A010227

 

As for the honeycomb milled Titleist/Cameron Newport, it was made as a prototype like many other putters that eventually received approval for production or use. In this case, Scotty decided to pass on the option to change the face milling to the honeycomb milling, a decision he greatly regrets to this day, or so I was told by one of the Cameron distributors.

 

 

I will be the first admit I have never seen the mini's at Bobs factory. Can someone post pictures.

Because if your example of unfinished putters getting A coa's is the 2 blocks of steel you cited, I am not sure I would call them "putters"

 

 

 

Maybe if you participated more on the site instead of just being a drive by shooter taking pot shots at members instead of actually posting information about putters and such you would be more informed.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?sh...t=0&start=0

The 5th picture down. It does not have a shaft so I guess it is unfinished.

 

Or you could go back two pages in this thread. Pure posted the same photo in post #183. Granted, that was probably before the TCC Blitz was organized... :rolleyes:

 

Bob's got the "original" plastic mold that was made too....it's kinda ironic that it's now a $40K paper weight...haha

[rrkman]

My opinion - it is a cameron newport head. From a collector standpoint, it would probably be a great piece to have but I wouldn't call it a Scotty Cameron putter .... I would call it a cameron head that was altered. I think it all comes down to if Cameron authorized it....if he did, then I would call it a Cameron prototype....if he didn't, then I would call it a bettinardi experiment using a cameron head. JMO....hope the few facts that I do know are actually correct.

 

 

Did Scotty Cameron personally authorize my Buttonback when I sent it back to the Custom Shop? Does that mean it has been altered and not authentic? If the guys doing the work at the CS make the putter authentic surely the "Main Man" milling his putters would make it authentic.

 

I think you're reaching a little there. I would guess that the guys in the custom shop were 'authorized' to do what you wanted done to you putter. Now, if one of those guys decided (on their own) to put a different milling on it, my opinion would be that it wasn't an authentic cameron design....JMO. But, this also brings up another question - what was Bettinardi's job, was it to mill putters or come up with new and exciting ideas? If it was the latter then I might have to rethink my opinion. I personally have no idea what his exact role was or what their relationship was.....like I've said before, I see a lot of quick claims here and there but cannot get all the details about them.

 

i think that's a great question to ask. was bob just a "mill boy" or did he have a more creative role in there relationship/contract etc. also, could there have possibly been other putters/millings bob came up with that scotty liked? i mean..wasn't the mini created by bob for scotty originally as a gift? did he have to authorize it before he accepted it? i wouldn't think it would be right to "cherry pick" which is authentic and which isn't. but..it is his company.

 

 

Sorry but I don't have any of those answers......

[Jesperday]

My opinion - it is a cameron newport head. From a collector standpoint, it would probably be a great piece to have but I wouldn't call it a Scotty Cameron putter .... I would call it a cameron head that was altered. I think it all comes down to if Cameron authorized it....if he did, then I would call it a Cameron prototype....if he didn't, then I would call it a bettinardi experiment using a cameron head. JMO....hope the few facts that I do know are actually correct.

 

 

Did Scotty Cameron personally authorize my Buttonback when I sent it back to the Custom Shop? Does that mean it has been altered and not authentic? If the guys doing the work at the CS make the putter authentic surely the "Main Man" milling his putters would make it authentic.

 

I think you're reaching a little there. I would guess that the guys in the custom shop were 'authorized' to do what you wanted done to you putter. Now, if one of those guys decided (on their own) to put a different milling on it, my opinion would be that it wasn't an authentic cameron design....JMO. But, this also brings up another question - what was Bettinardi's job, was it to mill putters or come up with new and exciting ideas? If it was the latter then I might have to rethink my opinion. I personally have no idea what his exact role was or what their relationship was.....like I've said before, I see a lot of quick claims here and there but cannot get all the details about them.

 

i think that's a great question to ask. was bob just a "mill boy" or did he have a more creative role in there relationship/contract etc. also, could there have possibly been other putters/millings bob came up with that scotty liked? i mean..wasn't the mini created by bob for scotty originally as a gift? did he have to authorize it before he accepted it? i wouldn't think it would be right to "cherry pick" which is authentic and which isn't. but..it is his company.

 

 

Sorry but I don't have any of those answers......

 

neither do i. that's why i was asking the board

[Optimus-Par]

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Bob and Scotty eating at 31 Flavors last night...They were discussing a face insert made from Zolex!

[sirisaacnewton]

i really like my scotty cameron

[wentorf11]

i really like my scotty cameron

 

 

Oh, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAH!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

sorry I couldn't help myself...

[captain3jack]

It is my understanding that Mr. Bettinardi was asked "if" he could mill a one piece Anser style head for Titliest/Scotty Cameron.

When he did, an agreement to produce them was made. I would venture to guess that Bettinardi was the expert in the manufacturing of the putters.

As the manufacturer, he would have license to tweak the process to be more cost efficient. The "honeycomb milling" was probably an independent endeaver, if I had to guess. I was told he also made some "honeycomb" putters for Bobby Grace and Tad Moore, but I cant verify that, so its just hearsey.

[bweeks]

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Bob and Scotty eating at 31 Flavors last night...They were discussing a face insert made from Zolex!

why post something so childish and dumb in such an informative thread

[bbeard10]

Certified Blocks of Steel.....In my day.

[dmonaco19]

Can I get the movie rights for this thread! I actually read all 7 pages and need more.

[bbeard10]

PM sent on mini ;)

 

I love this thread. MORE FACTS!

[Redman]

Can I get the movie rights for this thread! I actually read all 7 pages and need more.

 

Haha, can I team up with you to make the movie? I am addicted to this thread. I keep checking it every few minutes.....love it. There is some serious passion on here about people's putters and to me that is just fine. I wish we could clear things up a little more but I am afraid that things have been cluttered, changed, falsified, etc that the whole truth will never come out. To me though....Foregasim, whoemever he is, has certainly provided more than enough from his end when called out to do so. I have yet to see anything from the Cameron side. I am not taking sides in any way shape or form. I currently have a Studio Select in the bag now and it is being pretty good to me for now.

[alucard655]

Thank You

[jarederco]

Where is this third party facility? What is at the custom shop if the retail putters arn't?

[psygolf]

Can I get the movie rights for this thread! I actually read all 7 pages and need more.

Screenplay has already been written...by Mario Puzo.

[Arafel]

It is my understanding that Mr. Bettinardi was asked "if" he could mill a one piece Anser style head for Titliest/Scotty Cameron.

 

 

Part way through the Cameron Mizuno production of the M-100, M-200, M-300 and M-400 Cameron was introduced to Bettinari's work through another putter maker, I think it was Ken Giannini. Cameron really like the quality of the work Bettinardi was doing so he changed suppliers and had Bettinardi finish the production of the remainder of the Cameron Mizuno putters.

 

One thing Bettinardi did not like about the Mizuno putters, and all putters for that matter, was that when a neck was involved the putters were two pieces that got welded together. Welding was expensive and it distorted the metal. Bettinardi developed or invented the technology and programs to CNC mill putters as one piece. He was the first person to accomplish this feat and is why he holds the patent/trademark for One Piece Technology.

 

Not long after the production of the Mizuno putters was winding down Bettinardi developed the program to CNC mill a one piece Anser style head with a plumbers neck. The new one piece CNC milled plumbers neck Anser style head was show to several potential marketeers, including Cameron.

 

Cameron made the decision to contract with Bettinardi and be the only person selling these new one piece CNC milled plumber neck Anser putters. Cameron tried to get Mizuno to add this putter to their line and Mizuno choose not to do so as they wanted to keep to the classic Mills style heads they were use to marketing. Some of the original CNC milled one piece Anser heads were hand stamped Mizuno and given to Tour players.

 

Cameron decided to break away from Mizuno and give it a go on his own. He started Cameron Golf International, CGI. The first putter made was the Bettinardi one piece CNC milled plumbers neck Anser head and it was called the Classic I and was followed by the rest of the Classic line. The Classic Line were all one piece CNC milled putters. A short time later Cameron wanted a less expensive line of putters and this was the birth of the two piece Scottsman line.

 

In late 1994 Cameron signed an exclusive contract with Titleist and Bettinardi continued to mill one piece putters for Cameron/Titleist until 1998 or so. The putters first produced as Titleist putters in 1995 and 1996 were basically the same putters in the CGI series but with different engraving. The original TeI3 that was produced in 1997 and that Tiger used to win his first Green Jacket was precision milled by Bettinardi.

 

After Cameron/Titleist moved away from Bettinardi, I am sure for cost reasons, the quality of the putters degraded. The next generation of the TeI3 had production problems because the insert would not fit seamlessly into the face. A design change was made to add space around the insert and fill the gap with caulking. In 1999 Pro Platinum (nickle platting) was introduced on the Cameron/Titleist line: a good way to hide imperfections, welded necks, etc.

 

In early 2000's the marketing slogan changed from Made In America to Assembled In America and reference to the putters being one piece milled from sold billets of steel was no longer included in the descriptions of the putters. Much speculation ensued that some of the Cameron/Titleist line was cast in China and imported into the USA where they were skim milled and had the necks friction welded to them. It did not help matters that some of the putters necks snapped off in a clean break when they were being adjusted for lie by those that purchased them.

 

Currently the Cameron putters are once again advertised as being Made In America and are produced at different third party facilities.

 

Anyway, the point of this post was to point out that the one piece Anser style head was developed by Bettinardi long before Cameron was associated with Titleist. The rest is just a little history that I thought some of you might enjoy reading.

 

I love putter history.

 

Great post!

 

Thanks

[stage1350]

Can I get the movie rights for this thread! I actually read all 7 pages and need more.

Screenplay has already been written...by Mario Puzo.

 

I was thinking Gore Vidal would spin a better yarn. Maybe James Clavell...

[Redman]

So I want to know all the big hoopla with Scotty Cameron and his putters if he has NEVER made his own putters. Hell, evidently he didn't even design them at all. Sounds like he is Billy Mays of the putter world. Like I said, I have had several and have liked them, but that has nothing to do with his name.