Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[Slapjax7s]

But, I would like to offer my opinion on some of your opinions....if that's ok.

 

 

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!

 

 

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

[tangojay]

forgasim, you made mention of Tiger's current gamer? Could you please elaborate on it, I would love to hear the story behind it. Not trying to change the topic but it sure sounds like an interesting story.

 

There are several rumors I have come across in several websites, many have several things in common:

 

1) That it is a copy of a PING anser 2

 

2) That it is a cast putter

 

3) That it is a skim milled putter.

 

 

Anybody else ?

 

 

Back on topic:

 

What makes these putters worth over 40,000 dollars?

 

Who said they are worth that much?

 

Was this sale an attempt to keep Cameron prices artificially inflated?

 

If I am offered $10,000 for my OTR TEI3 and I turn it down, does it automatically get a post by a Cameron Fan ?

 

Thank You for your time.

[rrkman]

But, I would like to offer my opinion on some of your opinions....if that's ok.

 

 

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!

 

 

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

 

I sort of have to agree with him....there are a lot of questions/comments on here that get no response whatsoever.....seems like I'm listening in to a private (well, not so private) conversation between Forge, Venno, Nick, Hodges....and I might have missed one or 2.

[finalist]

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!

 

It is a good show. Lots of suspense and drama!

 

Can I throw out some more info? I posted a few tid-bits two pages ago, but not much reply. I'd love to hear the Cameron side to these issues...

 

1. The father figure who taught Cameron how to mill putters and was a mentor to Scotty mortgaged everything he owned to update his milling equipment based on an agreement that he and Scotty would be partners. This was right when Scotty just started to get big before his Mizuno deal. Scotty's father figure mortgaged everything for Scotty. They were about to go big time! ...then Scotty dropped his own friend, father figure, business partner and signed with Mizuno. This father figure died a poor man after all he did for Scotty. Does Scotty ever mentioned this episode? What's the Cameron side to this story??

 

2. The whole story behind Scotty's AMF putters and his former friend Toru Kamatari of POT. OUCH!! That's not the way to treat a friend Scotty.

 

"I feel their Jealousy" -Scotty Cameron

[geogolf]

But, I would like to offer my opinion on some of your opinions....if that's ok.

 

 

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!

 

 

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

 

 

<<< Banned TCC member here :-).

[tangojay]

But, I would like to offer my opinion on some of your opinions....if that's ok.

 

 

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!

 

 

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

 

 

<<< Banned TCC member here :-).

 

 

<<< Another Banned TCC member here :-).

[Pondy]

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

<<< Banned TCC member here :-).

<<< Another Banned TCC member here :-).

 

SPEAK !!!!

[rrkman]

i'd say unless your foregasm, venno, nickpoz or hodges no ones opinion really matters.

 

we've all asked the same questions and none have been answered so let's just sit back and enjoy!

 

It is a good show. Lots of suspense and drama!

 

Can I throw out some more info? I posted a few tid-bits two pages ago, but not much reply. I'd love to hear the Cameron side to these issues...

 

1. The father figure who taught Cameron how to mill putters and was a mentor to Scotty mortgaged everything he owned to update his milling equipment based on an agreement that he and Scotty would be partners. This was right when Scotty just started to get big before his Mizuno deal. Scotty's father figure mortgaged everything for Scotty. They were about to go big time! ...then Scotty dropped his own friend, father figure, business partner and signed with Mizuno. This father figure died a poor man after all he did for Scotty. Does Scotty ever mentioned this episode? What's the Cameron side to this story??

 

2. The whole story behind Scotty's AMF putters and his former friend Toru Kamatari of POT. OUCH!! That's not the way to treat a friend Scotty.

 

"I feel their Jealousy" -Scotty Cameron

 

For me, this is something that I am completely unfamiliar with. I'm a little confused though....is Toru the father figure or are these 2 different stories?

[rrkman]

Not really sure if you want my opinion on the banning but I will give it anyways.....and first, let me say, I am just a peon over there. I have no idea what you did and why you were banned....hopefully you were atleast banned for a reason...whether you agree with it or not. Also, I'm not defending or attacking their site. There are certainly a lot of great things that I get from there....info, friendships, purchases, etc....but that doesn't mean that I feel everything that happens there is perfect. I accept it for what it is and enjoy it.

 

They have a very strict policy on what can and cannot be talked about over there. Do I agree with all of the rules, probably not but if I don't and don't want to follow them, I can get banned and start my on site with my own rules. I try to follow the rules the best I can....same as on here and every other forum I participate on. I think that the one thing people forget is that it is a fan site....not a cameron general discussion forum. It is there to talk about all things positive cameron....and cameron only. Just think if you went to the HP site and started talking about how bad they are and that you should get an apple....do you think that would be tolerated?...similar to the way they have decided to run their site. Also, there are some negative comments about things but generally the conversation is positive....actually it is kind of refreshing knowing that generally you won't see a bunch of people fighting or bad mouthing each other(according to some of you, this still happens in the behind the scenes areas but I think it was stopped a long time ago - either way, I don't have to see it or deal with it)....some of it does happen but is kept to a minimum. And there are certainly some people that can come off a little harsh or rude but I've been guilty of that as well....and the same for most sites, right? Also, for members here that go there for the first time....it is a much smaller site and a different environment. This means that many of the active people already know each other and have formed bonds with each other so it might take a little more time to be accepted as one of them. I've seen many newbies welcomed in with open arms...I've seen some that have struggled with the culture there and it took a little longer...and I've seen some that went in with guns blazing and it didn't work out. I've also seen some that just didn't deserve they way they were treated...but, to be fair, I've seen that here and at every other forum, too.

 

A little tangent for you..........

 

Think how informative and better this site would be without the bickering....I'm not complaining and am certainly guilty of my share but just want to point out how much info and time is lost in the bickering. If you disagree on something, fine...state your case, state your facts, and move on. Don't throw a jab out at someone at the end of your post......don't call someone a liar....post your case and if it is well said and documented, then I think people can figure it out for themselves. And the quick hit one liners really don't help either. Take this thread. It was stated that someone believes that the mini was 1/5....great that is what they think. (and just to make sure everyone remembers/knows, this thread was started for me because I wanted to see the mini in comparison to the new bettinardi 3/4) I believe that they said it was based on a picture in a book that showed one stamped 1/5....great, a decent reason. All you have to do is answer back and say, I don't think that is true. Based on Bettinardi's info and the fact that he still has atleast one, I think that there were more than 5. Could have ended there. I'm sure other people would have added there opinion.....like, yes - I was talking to Cameron and he said that he ordered 5 so I believe 5 were ordered.....maybe not made, but ordered. Well, they were made in pairs so if there are 5, then there has to be atleast 6. etc. Could have been a nice civil discussion. Instead, it became an attack on on what people do for a living, what they've done in the past, what they've lied about, what they've hidden behind, etc. Just not productive. For me, I have loads of free time but I would still rather not waste it fighting on here.

 

Well, I'll get off my soapbox now...hope my $0.02 is useful to someone.

[tangojay]

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

<<< Banned TCC member here :-).

<<< Another Banned TCC member here :-).

 

SPEAK !!!!

 

I hope Callawayonly forgives me for plagiarizing his post, but, I could not think of a better way to answer this, I changed some of it to fit my situation:

 

Nick, I just wanted to thank you for sharing the information you posted in this thread. As a longtime putter collector, I stayed away from Scotty's putters over the years because frankly, I could not afford them.

 

About three years ago I joined TCC and began posting after buying my first Cameron a Center Shafted Beached Proto and finding TCC.

 

I also tried to become a little active in the board but I found out pretty quick that asking "newbie" questions would get you nothing but smart a** replies and sarcasm and it was routine to see either my posts or the posts of other new members shredded by the longtime members. It did not take long for me to begin to get the feeling that there was a large group of members there that controlled the board, made and responded to almost all of the threads and if you were not already a exclusive member of this clique, you stood no chance there. As an outsider you are not allowed to share your opinion on anything. I didn't take me long to see that there was really not much there for guys like that can not afford to run with the big dogs. The little collector like me is neither needed or wanted in that circle.

 

I asked about headcover which I had seen and did not look right, you guessed it, no one cared nor replied,but, a week or two later a mod asked about some funny looking covers, and the whole counterfeit headcover fiasco came to light, the natives were restless wanting to know if they had a fake and of course thanking their mod for saving the day! even SC made some money by authentication some headcovers! Did I care? no, just hated for the little collector like me to get burned, I had figured out what it was all about, after being ridiculed about a ping question and asked if there was a PING collector site, then scorned and asked "Would you say those things in front of Scotty?" I had had it,,, I found another site which cater to my taste.

 

Callawayonly, allow me to add to your quote (underlined is my addition) "After all,I wear blue jean shorts from time to time, my dog is a mutt and I still get excited when I find a mint golfball".......

[geogolf]

Why do only their opinions count BM? The former TCC members who have been banned need to come out of hiding.

<<< Banned TCC member here :-).

<<< Another Banned TCC member here :-).

 

SPEAK !!!!

 

As I am noted in the credits in the first "Art of Putting Book" from 2001", will just let that speak from itself......and yet still got banned lol. I got that goin' for me....which is nice.

 

Opinion here on the topic. Not that I am owed an explanation.. But, since the first Mini a few years back really didn't sell for 35K. Will just take the "Fool me once shame on you- Fool me twice shame on me" approach.

[tangojay]

RKKMAN,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

I still exchange messages with some current members of TCC and have also made a friendship with a rather big collectors, I will not say who for obvious reasons, I guess some never outgrew the "cool kids" syndrome from high school and unfortunately they are the one who give the rest a bad name.

 

You will make some great friends with some great people there! I am 100% sure you will enjoy it and have fun.

[maverickgolfguy]

Where has nickpoz gone? I agree that TCC is a bit fascist, at best. Can't say anything bad at all over there about Scotty.

[captain3jack]

I was once a Cameron fan confessional. I used to sit at my computer and hit refresh all day. Then I heard of TCC and sat around Monday through Wednesday participating with my new "friends". I had over 280 headcovers and 40 putters at the height of my collection. Then one day at the PGA Show I met some guys who sent me to PT to check it out. I posted some inaccurate Cameron info and JR blasted me. At first it pissed me off, then I reread his post and sent him a PM. He was polite and cordial. Gave me one pieice of advice, look and listen. After 6 months on TCC I realized that I was the sucker. 1/10 Headcovers, 1/100. The same guys always had one for sale. Occasionally, a "NEW" club cameron member gets one they're first try to

hook them.

 

The facts are plain for those that want to see them. Go join TCC. In your first post, ask about Bob Bettinardi milling the Camerons. Ill be here waiting for you to tell us how that went.

 

On your second post, assuming you get a second post, ask why Scotty is trying to steal the 62. Dont say its cause his birthday, thats a TP Mills slogan.

 

There should be a code of honor among putter designers. I have meant Mr. B, Mr. Mills, David Mills, Bobby Grace. They respect each other, and they are not jealous..

[captain3jack]

is Toru the father figure or are these 2 different stories?

 

 

 

I believe Toru to be the owner of Piece of Time. Not the father figure.

[rrkman]

Again...my posts are in bold, just easier for me to do it that way. Sorry if it is confusing.

 

rrikman, the problem is the guy that said there were 5 first said as a fact that Scotty ordered five. It was not stated as an opinion. Also in this thread and another he stated or implied that if Bettinardi had one or if more than 5 were made that Bettinardi made them without the authority of Cameron and that they are basically fake.

 

Maybe he truly believed that there were 5 ordered...maybe not. I certainly am not saying that is was handled or discussed correctly by anyone....me included. Plus, I say things all the time as fact....why, because I truly believed that they were true. Am I right 100% of the time...I think even those that don't know me can answer that....regardless of what I think. Accusing Bettinardi is a little extreme without a little more back-up. But, then again....I still don't know the truth. I haven't seen an order....feel free to send me a copy. I don't know Bettinardi or Cameron (B and C from now on....I'm tired of typing their names today) so I certainly don't have any info that came 'right from the horses mouth'. I've given my opinion on this earlier....feel free to go back and look at it if you would like to know what I think happened. Is it the truth, not sure...but I think it makes sense based on what I've read....and maybe because I feel like switzerland right now, it actually doesn't really reflect poorly on any of them.

 

If someone had posted like you suggested then my reply would have been much different. However, when someone that is suppose to be an insider, a respected and knowledgeable person starts spreading false information upon which they have no basis of fact and then go on to make defamatory statements about a third party, you bet I will call them out and I will call them what they are, a lier. Yes he back tracked and tried to convince everyone that he thought there were 5 because one on the ones is stamped 1 of 5. That was a completely different position than he originally took and the horse was long gone from the barn.

 

Since you are the one I'm responding to (although this goes for everyone), don't get sucked in. Post facts and walk away. Telling someone to go fold sweaters doesn't exactly make you look like a saint, right? This is just my opinion....take it for what it is worth. If someone proves me wrong, that sheds enough light on the situation already...calling me a liar or putting me down just reflects poorly on you....JMO.

Go back and look at what posts are poor or attacking posts and you will see that it mostly started when the TCC contingent came to the rescue of Nick. Did they supply any facts to support their position? No. Did they shed any light upon the issues put forth? No. Were they able to contradict any of the sources or supporting links I provided? No.

 

I'm sorry but I really have to disagree with you on this. Look at your first comment in this thread. "Complete BS" - that doesn't exactly set a calm tone for a discussion. Try taking the high road next time and say that you respectfully disagree based on the rest of your message....I would think a quote from those guys and especially info from the Butlers would probably be pretty solid evidence. I certainly realize that there is history between many of you....good, bad, ugly, etc....but if the same fight is going to happen everytime, we're not going to get anywhere. This discussion was about the mini....if he is wrong, prove him wrong. This is isn't a character debate, it is a thread about a neat little putter that was made during a time when 2 highly talented people worked together. Is it worth $40,000? Not too me. Did I ask for that info when I asked to see a picture, no....but it was interesting to hear....atleast to me. And I'm certainly not saying that these were your posts but go back and look at all the anti-cameron one liners - does the video have anything to do with the mini? Is it odd, to me - yes. Did Cameron organize that or was it done by someone in a different culture...I think so. Plus, how many times to I have to hear 'go fold some sweaters'...does it really matter what he does (and by the way, I probably wouldn't mind that job)? BTW, I babysit and change diapers for a living (a dad that semi-retired to stay at home and raise his kids)....does that make you better than me...I've folded my share of sweaters and don't even get paid for it....except that I get to spend a great amount of time with my boys.

So what did they do? They started a personal attack on their former friends. They tried to cloud the issues and bring up the Geo Cities Site, The Blog, they made personal unsubstantiated accusations against anyone that participated in the "contrary" Cameron historic position. In fact that is what the Geo Cities Site and Blog was all about. That is the same thing they did on those sites. The people that were hurt more than anyone by the Geo Cities Site and the Blog are the guys that run PutterTalk and the guys that TCC subsequently banned and began a character assignation campaign against, at the direction and instruction from the Cameron Studio/Distributor etc.

 

When I go back and skim through this thread, it looks like xxio brought up the blog and littlepingman posted the link - I could be wrong....and I certainly did my share of bringing it up as well. Personally, I know nothing about the split....except that I have concluded that it wasn't pretty. Personally, I would love to have all of you guys together, sharing info, spreading knowledge but that ain't gonna happen, is it? And that was always one of my problems with the blog, it had some pretty bad things in there (I've since done some research and found some additional info about most of those discussions and those particular discussions had become a non-issue for me....mainly because they have nothing to do with me and I wasn't there or priviledge to be part of any of it.)....but that section included not only the current cameron guys but also a lot of PT guys and others. So, to me it makes all of them look bad.

Anyway, what you described will never occur because the Cameron guys do not do business that way. They ALWAYS go on the personal attack and never provide any facts to support their position. Many of us have learned you have to fight fire with fire and when one of these yahoos is posting false crapola you have to immediately call them out, post some factual information, sit back and let them do what they always do (insult you, demand facts, claim you are a hater, etc.) and then post some proof and sources for what you said earlier.

 

Most of us (although I'm not too sure about some of the people around here) are smart enough to see through any smoke screen on either side...the hater comments, the video, the sweaters, the you're jealous, etc.

 

If a person can wade through all the BS in many of these threads there informative facts, supporting sources, etc. they can learn about and they can also learn to know who is a lier and who is not.

 

Personally, I agree that there probably is a lot of good info in some of these but for me, most of it is hard to truly believe because it comes from people that get into these useless p!$$!ng matches.....in my mind atleast, it takes away some of their credibility. And it doesn't have to happen in that particular thread...I usually remember the people that consistently make smart @$$ comments and like to attack others....and, atleast in my book, I'm not completely sold that everything they say is 'gospel'. And, please don't take it as an attack but.....I've said this numerous times on here - many of your supportive facts came from TCC posts or from Cameron. You've been pretty clear that we shouldn't believe anything that comes from them but then you use it to back up your story. So, what should I believe from there....only the stuff that contradicts what they think and/or the stuff that makes Cameron look bad? Just curious.

[geogolf]

Where has nickpoz gone? I agree that TCC is a bit fascist, at best. Can't say anything bad at all over there about Scotty.

 

You have to understand that they basically are under the wing of Acushnet/Titleist/S.C. In a way , it's no different than going to Titleist.com. They have their own sandbox and their rules. So be it. But once you understand the relationship - it almost has to be run pretty tight.

[Z-Man]

The father figure was Rick Cooper

[ws6]

forgasim, you made mention of Tiger's current gamer? Could you please elaborate on it, I would love to hear the story behind it. Not trying to change the topic but it sure sounds like an interesting story.

 

There are several rumors I have come across in several websites, many have several things in common:

 

1) That it is a copy of a PING anser 2

 

2) That it is a cast putter

 

3) That it is a skim milled putter.

 

 

Anybody else ?

 

 

Didn't Tiger's putter come from/made at BOS?

[finalist]

is Toru the father figure or are these 2 different stories?

 

 

 

I believe Toru to be the owner of Piece of Time. Not the father figure.

Two DIFFERENT stories. Totally different issues, and I wonder if any of it weighs on Scotty's conscience today?

 

Toru is not the father figure. He is the owner of Piece of Time. At one point the only asian/Japanese distributor for Cameron... Until Cameron signed with Titleist and got out of the contract with Toru. Cameron also told Toru what other putter brands may or may not be sold in Toru's own store. This violates Fair Trade Laws.

 

Cameron's real father died at a young age and the "father figure" took Scotty under his wing and showed him the ropes. Allowed him to use his mills. It was those mills that Scotty made some of the original camerons that fetch big money today. The two decide to go into partnership. The guy mortgaged his house to upgrade the equipment. Then he got screwed and never saw the partnership come to fruition when Scotty decided to go a different route. The father figure declared bankruptcy and passed away a poor man.

 

I can admire a cameron putter, I can admire his/Acushnet's marketing ability, but the guy has flat out done some mean spirited things to promote his business.

 

I got banned from TCC before I could even join and create an account!! I'm dead serious. Is that a record?

[psygolf]

Tango...I have never been insulted by anything you have ever had to say, here or at PT. I have always been very transparent, to a fault with how I feel about things and I have been transparent as well about who I am.

I think the biggest disappointment for me in my attempt to be part of the Cameron experience was how little the guys over there (at CC), that truley knew what was what, could not find a way to help the newcomer other than with the all too often sarcastic remarks. Had I been buying $5000 putters in stead of $500 putters, I'm sure it would have been different.

I have always been proud of my collection of putters, every single one of them now in mint condition by my own hands but no one likes being told to basically go away, go back to your Spaldings and Wilsons and I was told that by more than one of the big time CC guys.

I love traditional heel shafted putters and I always felt my collection could never be complete with a Napa or two, but it did not take me long to change my mind.

I don't have a dog in this fight and could care less really about anything to do with Cameron but I think my experience is part of the full story, and I wanted to share how some outsiders are treated by the players on that side of the fence once the CC site came into this discussion.

The blue jeans shorts comment was of course in response to one of the behind the scene discussions on the Geocities site. My dog Bogey is a Rat Terrier and he and I both were both thrilled this evening when we found not one, but two brand new Pro V's on the course.........me in blue jean shorts of course....

Forget the quest for a Napa... go for an old Blue Goose VIII milled blade.

[hodges]

Nick still looking on TCC for the first mention of Bob's milling Cameron putters. I did find it mentioned earlier on another cameron fan club website

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/realc...s/message/23321

Along with an interesting comment from George

I see you were a member, made you read it maybe you didn't

 

JR I havn't forget your posts and will get back to it when I can.

 

Still looking for anwsers to my 2 questions

 

What milling technique did Bob use that allowed for a run of 1 of 7 putters

And what was the basis of the lawsuit that Scotty filed against Bob

Thanks

Greg

[maverickgolfguy]

Where has nickpoz gone? I agree that TCC is a bit fascist, at best. Can't say anything bad at all over there about Scotty.

 

 

If you had a website dedicated to you would you want people saying bad things about you or your work? I don't think so. Quit worrying about nickpoz and get a life. JAT

 

I would want people to be able to say that didn't like my particular design or would like to comment on some possible changes. I said I didn't like the way a headcover looked and got a few PM's saying I shouldn't say it.

 

I think you need to get a life if you really believe what you just wrote, Just A Thought.

 

I was wondering where nickpoz was because they are both very insightful and bring a lot to the table.

[biscuity]

Cameron's real father died at a young age and the "father figure" took Scotty under his wing and showed him the ropes. Allowed him to use his mills. It was those mills that Scotty made some of the original camerons that fetch big money today. The two decide to go into partnership. The guy mortgaged his house to upgrade the equipment. Then he got screwed and never saw the partnership come to fruition when Scotty decided to go a different route. The father figure declared bankruptcy and passed away a poor man.

 

I can admire a cameron putter, I can admire his/Acushnet's marketing ability, but the guy has flat out done some mean spirited things to promote his business.

 

That is Side-B's version of the story, it would be interesting to hear Side-C's version.

[rrkman]

Nick still looking on TCC for the first mention of Bob's milling Cameron putters. I did find it mentioned earlier on another cameron fan club website

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/realc...s/message/23321

Along with an interesting comment from George

I see you were a member, made you read it maybe you didn't

 

JR I havn't forget your posts and will get back to it when I can.

 

Still looking for anwsers to my 2 questions

 

What milling technique did Bob use that allowed for a run of 1 of 7 putters

And what was the basis of the lawsuit that Scotty filed against Bob

Thanks

Greg

 

Greg,

 

Thanks for that link. I've seen the old group before but don't think I ever went into the messages. This will be some great reading over the next couple months.

 

Thanks,

 

Randy

[geogolf]

Nick still looking on TCC for the first mention of Bob's milling Cameron putters. I did find it mentioned earlier on another cameron fan club website

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/realc...s/message/23321

Along with an interesting comment from George

I see you were a member, made you read it maybe you didn't

 

JR I havn't forget your posts and will get back to it when I can.

 

Still looking for anwsers to my 2 questions

 

What milling technique did Bob use that allowed for a run of 1 of 7 putters

And what was the basis of the lawsuit that Scotty filed against Bob

Thanks

Greg

 

Yes, that was "iGolf" some 14 years ago-wild place. I remembered it. I wish there were an archive through AOL for that old stuff.

 

As far as "unsavory fellows".. that has to do with some nice "Vokey" wedges from about 1998 or so lol.

 

Guessing Nick knows of that Yahoo forum post, Greg- since he has a comment in the thread you posted.

[rrkman]

Cameron's real father died at a young age and the "father figure" took Scotty under his wing and showed him the ropes. Allowed him to use his mills. It was those mills that Scotty made some of the original camerons that fetch big money today. The two decide to go into partnership. The guy mortgaged his house to upgrade the equipment. Then he got screwed and never saw the partnership come to fruition when Scotty decided to go a different route. The father figure declared bankruptcy and passed away a poor man.

 

I can admire a cameron putter, I can admire his/Acushnet's marketing ability, but the guy has flat out done some mean spirited things to promote his business.

 

That is Side-B's version of the story, it would be interesting to hear Side-C's version.

 

I know nothing about this story....but hopefully (and not because I'm a Cameron putter fan) if it is true, there's a reason for why it happened. I might not agree with the reason but hopefully I find out the entire story someday.

 

Also (and this isn't addressed to anyone in particular), I've said this before and I'll say it again. Bashing, boycotting, attacking, etc....a person because of shady business practices seems a little hypocritical to me. Almost every person/company that becomes successful in the business world has to make tough decisions....and many step on a few people on the way to the top....does that make it right, no. But, for those of you that don't buy his products because you feel he did these things, I certainly hope you also only buy produce from small local farmers, don't have a computer (especially a PC with windows), don't shop at the chain DIY store and only buy from the small general store....I could go on and on but hopefully you get my point. This might not be an appropriate question for some of you (not sure if you big dollar putter spenders actually shop at a place like this) but do you shop at big retail discount chains - I'll leave the name out of it? If you want to see some hard nose, get out of my way or you'll pay decisions being made, do some research on that place....or better yet, try doing business with them. I've heard about decisions made for, and by them that would make a story about leaving your father figure behind poor look like a decent decision. Still not defending or supporting his decisions and I know this is pretty off topic but like I said....if you think he is a scumbag, don't be friends with him. If you don't buy his products because you think he is a scumbag, then please use that same logic for all your decisions. Living off the land on small farm in the wilderness probably isn't that bad...and if this truly is your beliefs, you should find that out soon enough....BTW, that land once belonged to native americans.

 

I really wish they had a little emoticon of a guy stepping off his soapbox.....seems like I would use it a lot.

[jas904]

I have enjoyed this thread. Everytime I read the current posts, the same question lingers I'm my mind. I wonder when Scotty will produce the "SC bar code" headcover?

[biscuity]

Careful there rrkman, with posts like that someone will claim that you and I are the same poster. I agree 100%.

 

On a similar note, people who make a big deal about Cameron putters being milled by a machine shop should apply the same logic to the other clubs in their bag and to other purchases that you make. Is an iPod made by Apple? Nope, it's made in Taiwan by Foxconn. If you plunk down $1million for a Bugatti Veyron do you assume it's all made by Bugatti? Wrong, the engine is made by Volkswagen, the carbon fiber chassis is made by ATR, the seats are Sparco, brakes are AP Racing. Does that make it less valuable to you than, say, a Ferrari Enzo that's built by Ferrari? Think again if you said "yes" because the chassis for the Enzo is not made by Ferrari, it's made by the same company that made the chassis for the Porsche Carrera GT and Veyron.

 

And is it really a surprise to anyone that Scotty doesn't "make" every putter with his name on it? That would be like being suprised that your Vokey wedge was not hand made by Bob Vokey. Or that Giorgio Armani didn't personally cut and stitch the suit you just bought.

 

Outsourcing is a common business practice. For most people all that really matters is that you get a high quality product with a value that is in line with what you paid for it.

[biscuity]

So a Bugatti Veyron or Ferrari Enzo are not collectible works of art? It's ridiculous to expect a company to disclose their suppliers. Bugatti wouldn't do that, Armani shouldn't be expected to list their suppliers.