Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[stage1350]

If Acushnet/Cameron can find a way to trademark a dog taking a dump, I'm sure they would have found a way to trademark the mini if they could. :rolleyes:

[Six Pints]

What this thread needs to be complete is pictures of the high price escort with the millionth pivot tool!

[Pure745]

What this thread needs to be complete is pictures of the high price escort with the millionth pivot tool!

 

+1 Million

 

Only thing is.. SC fans are batting .000 with any sort of supportive evidence.. till then all we have is speculation :)

 

Or.. perhaps, a COA'd escort w/ pivot tool? :man_in_love:

[Ian Nersesian]

What this thread needs to be complete is pictures of the high price escort with the millionth pivot tool!

 

+1 Million

 

Only thing is.. SC fans are batting .000 with any sort of supportive evidence.. till then all we have is speculation :)

 

Or.. perhaps, a COA'd escort w/ pivot tool? :man_in_love:

 

Well are there a million pivot tools or "fewer than a million"? :haha:

[tpariff]

What this thread needs to be complete is pictures of the high price escort with the millionth pivot tool!

 

+1 Million

 

Only thing is.. SC fans are batting .000 with any sort of supportive evidence.. till then all we have is speculation :)

 

Or.. perhaps, a COA'd escort w/ pivot tool? :man_in_love:

 

Well are there a million pivot tools or "fewer than a million"? :haha:

 

I know you said that jokingly, but it's a great question. How can anyone, not just SC, keep track of ONE MILLION things, but not FIVE? After all, the pivot tools aren't stamped 1/1,000,000, 2/1,000,000, etc.

 

Kevin

[varsityhacker]

What this thread needs to be complete is pictures of the high price escort with the millionth pivot tool!

 

+1 Million

 

Only thing is.. SC fans are batting .000 with any sort of supportive evidence.. till then all we have is speculation :)

 

Or.. perhaps, a COA'd escort w/ pivot tool? :man_in_love:

 

Well are there a million pivot tools or "fewer than a million"? :haha:

 

We will never know because SC will only say that he made a million, then behind everyone’s back sell a million more. Then all of his fans will say things like we can never know for sure how many were made and how many were destroyed, and what is one million or two million is that really important. Then one of us will point this out and be called SC haters.

[wentorf11]

This thread should be stickied to the top of the flat sticks forum...it is by far the most informative thread to date in this section. Can we do that somehow?

 

Great idea, I agree there is a ton of info in this thread, but I think Golfwrx would probably get hit with some kind of defamation suit from Scotty/Achusnet.

[stage1350]

This thread should be stickied to the top of the flat sticks forum...it is by far the most informative thread to date in this section. Can we do that somehow?

 

Great idea, I agree there is a ton of info in this thread, but I think Golfwrx would probably get hit with some kind of defamation suit from Scotty/Achusnet.

 

In the words of another internet moron, it would be difficult for Acushnet/Cameron to find them "libel for liable." First of all, they would have to prove that statements were false. They can't even apparently count to 5 without screwing that up. I don't think they can find them "libel for slander" either. :rolleyes:

[Huntingchris0000]

I just bought the 1,000,000.00 divot tool and would love to sell it for a mere 5K, I might even be able to get it stamped :tongue:

I can't believe biscuit doesn't just tuck tail and run back to TCC like the rest of them.

I am just waiting for some facts from the Cameron Club :rolleyes:

[jick]

Since this has gone beyond just a thread about the mini, but has morphed into "The Definitive Cameron Information Thread", I will do my bit to contribute since I have learned a lot from this thread and its time to give back.

 

Every now and then, debates always crop up about stainless steel versus GSS. People speculate and argue. To end all future debates, this are the words from Cameron himself that was published in the Cameron Museum website:

 

"GSS and SSS are abbreviations to express the material of putters and both are types of stainless steel. Both are made from type 303 the softest stainless steel. The GSS is pure abstracted 303 stainless ingot made in Germany. The putter heads are curved from those ingots. On the other hand the SSS is made in United States and recycled from knives and forks, therefore there is a huge difference in the material price. Also GSS is rare, Scotty only get a small quantity of GSS ingot for his Studio 2 years ago."

 

So always bear in mind that whenever you buy a Studio Select, My Girl 08, Holiday 08, or any other non-GSS Cameron that is stainless steel, you are actually helping the environment as what you have is made of recycled material. Is there any other putter brand this environmentally conscious? Again, kudos to Cameron!

[ball game]

 

• Cameron has been extremely successful with tour players. If it is not the money (tiger could certainly make much more elsewhere) what does Scotty do to get his putter in the hands of so many players? Maybe the true success in Cameron has been to cater to the high demands of the tour player. Is there any interesting history at the lengths that Scott is able to roll out the red carpet to tour players. Cameron certainly must have seen the success that Nike had with Jordan and shoes (and tiger with out the putter).
  

 

 

• Is there any story to the extent at which Cameron has catered to Tiger or is Woods just very reluctant to change putters?
  

 

 

• Cameron’s partnership with Titleist seems to be one to have more access to the tour player. Bettinardi’s relationship with Mizzuno seemed the same. In today’s new golf market it will it be more beneficial to be associated with a large golf company (Cameron) or to be on your own (Bettinardi). Will Bettinardi loose his tour presence on his own? It will be interesting to see who has judged the current market correctly.
  

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Ball Game

 

[jacksparrow]

More, Jick, more!

The sarcasm dripping from your last two posts is delicious!

[jick]

To all those who love to bust Cameron for not having any original designs, think again.

From his 2006 Interview with Golf Digest (again I use Cameron's own words as it is more accurate than mere speculation or conjecture):

[i]
"What's the next breakthrough in putters and what we know about putting itself? I'm on the verge of something that will show the player exactly what should happen during the ideal putting stroke, along with clear direction on whether you're achieving it. Is it a putter? A training aid? An analyzing device? I won't elaborate, except to say that[b] it will alter the future of putting[/b] and markedly improve the ability of golfers as a whole."[/i]

Can the other puttermakers claim to alter the future of putting itself?

By the way, now which is three years after that interview, did Cameron already breakthrough"? Or he still "on the verge"? Nevertheless, I am sure we are all waiting with extreme anticipation for a product that will alter the future of putting.

And to all the naysayers who diss Cameron for overpriced putters that includes Twistys and Damascus at $15,000 or minis at $40,000 or 009's at $3,000 or GSS at $5,000 - think again. Sure, Cameron subcontracts his work out and can still charge an arm and a leg, while Bettinardi mills all his Mizuno putters in-house and still charge $249. But you must always bear in mind the words of Cameron:
[i]
"The price points on my putters are relatively high, but you aren't just buying performance. [b]You're buying confidence[/b]. It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for."[/i]

How many putter makers can actually package and sell confidence? Oh, and it comes with a free putter too.

So all of you can stop complaining about Camerons being overpriced, or even if the seller in the main thread turned down $40,000. Sometimes, there is a high price to pay for "confidence" and many cannot afford to lose it.

[biscuity]

[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.

[biscuity]

Scotty did not make 1,000,000 pivot tools, he might have "ordered" 1,000,000 and he might have sold 1,000,000 but he certainly never made them.

 

Considering how most of them have been resold, numerous times, it would probable be safe to say that there have been over 5,000,000 pivot tool sales.

 

Here is the information on the 1 millionth pivot tool:

 

http://scottycameronblog.com/2008/01/30/th...nth-pivot-tool/

 

 

And for those of you who want to see the evil person the Scotty Haters portray, click on the ARCHIVES link on that page and read through the posts. Scotty's responses are in red. Looks like a guy who is passionate about his company and customers to me.

[xxio]

I don't know, I can't trust anything on Scotty's site now with all the mistakes and inconsistencies. Those comments could have been written by his careless webmaster or one of the staff for all we know.

I even doubt some of the statements attributed to Scotty Cameron in Jick's posts. I mean who would want to say "It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for".

It's like saying you can either pay $300 for an OTR amount of confidence or $3,000 for a bit more of confidence. I would hope that the extra $2,700 is more than just confidence but better craftsmanship and better materials, recycled forks and knives anyone

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1835795' date='Jul 22 2009, 02:46 AM'][quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.
[/quote]

Please elaborate.

Or are you attempting to create a lie?

Your own ethics & integrity may be at issue.

[spring70]

I do not know or care enough about putter makers (as people) to have many opinions on this thread. I have had several putters, including Camerons, but what really surprises me is the Titleist/Cameron statements that seem to suggest that he is only a name on the product and really does not do much except tweak loft and lie angles. He seems more of a CEO than engineer or craftsman.


I realize that Cameron himself is not milling ever divot tool, but he seems disconnected to that manufacturing business..

[preacher]

I have been folllowing this thread closely and find it very informative. Can I get some clarification on this question: Scotty does or does not personally finish (ie stamp, etc) every tour putter that comes out of his "studio"? I would certainly expect to have a high level of Scotty involvment on a 009, GSS, SSS, etc., espically for the 3,000 and above pricing.

[varsityhacker]

[quote name='preacher' post='1835894' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:25 AM']I have been folllowing this thread closely and find it very informative. Can I get some clarification on this question: Scotty does or does not personally finish (ie stamp, etc) every tour putter that comes out of his "studio"? I would certainly expect to have a high level of Scotty involvment on a 009, GSS, SSS, etc., espically for the 3,000 and above pricing.[/quote]

Yep just after he mills then polishes them at his studio...

I am not laughing at you, just the thought of Scotty stamping and paint filling a Circle T and saying okay this one’s ready call my boys and get this thing pimped.

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='biscuity' post='1835795' date='Jul 22 2009, 12:46 AM'][quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1834100' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:04 AM'][quote name='Roland ' post='1833951' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:03 AM']This thread has lost me. I think people take things far too seriously lol. If I like a putter, I don't care what/where/who/how its made by aslong as it holes putts [/quote]

This thread is really not about a putter called the Mini. This thread is more about ethics and integrity. This thread is about how people conduct themselves in the business world and about respect, given and received.

At least that is what this thread means to me.
[/quote]


And about the ethics and integrity of the companies you previously used as suppliers.
[/quote]

This is a perfect case of deflecting a pertinent issue by throwing other companies into the mix. Well, I am sure we are not discussing other companies in this thread. I know of one company (rather one or two people within that company) that lacked ethics and integrity. The case went to court and verdict rendered. If we want to talk about other companies then name them and recite the specific action that lacks integrity and ethics. Otherwise this thread pertains to the Mini and the practices that were employed to vault the value of this putter.



[quote name='jick' post='1835689' date='Jul 21 2009, 11:06 PM']To all those who love to bust Cameron for not having any original designs, think again.

From his 2006 Interview with Golf Digest (again I use Cameron's own words as it is more accurate than mere speculation or conjecture):

[i]
"What's the next breakthrough in putters and what we know about putting itself? I'm on the verge of something that will show the player exactly what should happen during the ideal putting stroke, along with clear direction on whether you're achieving it. Is it a putter? A training aid? An analyzing device? I won't elaborate, except to say that[b] it will alter the future of putting[/b] and markedly improve the ability of golfers as a whole."[/i]

Can the other puttermakers claim to alter the future of putting itself?

By the way, now which is three years after that interview, did Cameron already breakthrough"? Or he still "on the verge"? Nevertheless, I am sure we are all waiting with extreme anticipation for a product that will alter the future of putting.

And to all the naysayers who diss Cameron for overpriced putters that includes Twistys and Damascus at $15,000 or minis at $40,000 or 009's at $3,000 or GSS at $5,000 - think again. Sure, Cameron subcontracts his work out and can still charge an arm and a leg, while Bettinardi mills all his Mizuno putters in-house and still charge $249. But you must always bear in mind the words of Cameron:
[i]
"The price points on my putters are relatively high, but you aren't just buying performance. [b]You're buying confidence[/b]. It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for."[/i]

How many putter makers can actually package and sell confidence? Oh, and it comes with a free putter too.

So all of you can stop complaining about Camerons being overpriced, or even if the seller in the main thread turned down $40,000. Sometimes, there is a high price to pay for "confidence" and many cannot afford to lose it.[/quote]


If a person has to buy a certain putter, especially one valued at thousands of dollars to buy confidence then that person would be better served in paying for putting lessons from Stan Utley or Dave Pelz. If that person does not want to do that then I suggest therapy sessions. Confidence is not purchased, it is developed from good technique and practice.

[i]"The price points on my putters are relatively high, but you aren't just buying performance. [b]You're buying confidence[/b]. It's human nature to have greater faith in something you've paid a premium for."[/i]

This is one of the biggest marketing BS statements I have ever read. Buying confidence, good grief. I have seen people who own expensive putters that putt horribly. I have seen people who putt great with a POS and they have confidence. Yes, this statement is so heavily layers with BS I can barely contain my laughter.

I have several jars of confidence I can sell for a fraction of the price. It is just as good as what is purchased from a tour putter, GSS or Mini. Please PM me for a jar of [b][size=4][u]FM[/b][/size][/u] to build your confidence. I guarantee that I will sell it at a fraction of the price, I promise!

[cardia10]

I think I brought this up 26 pages ago. The whole Cameron thing is like a ponzi scheme. When everyone finds out how his putters are really made and that 1/100 is acutally 1/well,no one really kept up with it, prices will tumble. Anyone who can't see that his limited and 009 mass produced putters are overpried are slightly off their rocker, or just embarassed that they have a tanking investment. I think it would be good for all the Cameron worshipers to take a breath, breath deep and say "my name is ____ and I overpayed for a putter no better than a tiger shark with the big grip"

[Six Pints]

Here is a link to the SC International Collectors Convention where there is an interesting comment at about 3:38...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4[/url]

For those of you who don't want to listen..... Scotty says "I'm surprised THEY didn't break the neck on how tight those twists are on the neck"

It appears to me that even if you spend $15k on a handmade putter there is no guarantee that Scotty even touched the putter (unless you count waving the finished product around to the adoring fans).

On the plus side... imagine how much confidence I will have in the putter because I spent so much! By the way, how does the twisted neck enhance performance? I mean I don't really care as I'll be knocking them in from everywhere because it was expensive... but the guys in my foursome might ask and I want to baffle them with technical jargon.

[biscuity]

[quote name='spring7' post='1835873' date='Jul 22 2009, 03:27 AM']I do not know or care enough about putter makers (as people) to have many opinions on this thread. I have had several putters, including Camerons, but what really surprises me is the Titleist/Cameron statements that seem to suggest that he is only a name on the product and really does not do much except tweak loft and lie angles. He seems more of a CEO than engineer or craftsman.


I realize that Cameron himself is not milling ever divot tool, but he seems disconnected to that manufacturing business..[/quote]

I suggest you read through the archive on his blog. You'll see that he is very connected to the design, development, and manufacturing process of his putters. He's a designer, businessman, and spokesman for a an extemely busy multi-million dollar company. There is simply no way for him to do everything himself, that's why he has employees and suppliers.

Link: [url="http://scottycameronblog.com/archives/"]http://scottycameronblog.com/archives/[/url]

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='Six Pints' post='1835950' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:30 AM']Here is a link to the SC International Collectors Convention where there is an interesting comment at about 3:38...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4[/url]

For those of you who don't want to listen..... Scotty says "I'm surprised THEY didn't break the neck on how tight those twists are on the neck"

It appears to me that even if you spend $15k on a handmade putter there is no guarantee that Scotty even touched the putter (unless you count waving the finished product around to the adoring fans).

On the plus side... imagine how much confidence I will have in the putter because I spent so much! By the way, how does the twisted neck enhance performance? I mean I don't really care as I'll be knocking them in from everywhere because it was expensive... but the guys in my foursome might ask and I want to baffle them with technical jargon.[/quote]


There was a thread about this on PT and after listening to this clip many times, I know Cameron said "I" in the clip. I initially thought he said "they" but after review, he said "I".

[arkboulder]

[quote name='RobotDoctor' post='1836023' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:24 AM'][quote name='Six Pints' post='1835950' date='Jul 22 2009, 06:30 AM']Here is a link to the SC International Collectors Convention where there is an interesting comment at about 3:38...

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4[/url]

For those of you who don't want to listen..... Scotty says "I'm surprised THEY didn't break the neck on how tight those twists are on the neck"

It appears to me that even if you spend $15k on a handmade putter there is no guarantee that Scotty even touched the putter (unless you count waving the finished product around to the adoring fans).

On the plus side... imagine how much confidence I will have in the putter because I spent so much! By the way, how does the twisted neck enhance performance? I mean I don't really care as I'll be knocking them in from everywhere because it was expensive... but the guys in my foursome might ask and I want to baffle them with technical jargon.[/quote]


There was a thread about this on PT and after listening to this clip many times, I know Cameron said "I" in the clip. I initially thought he said "they" but after review, he said "I".
[/quote]

He does say "I" not "they" when talking about how tight the twists where done without breaking the neck.

[randomhero1090]

As for the “premium for confidence,” I will buy into that to an extent. I got $500 in Golfsmith gift certs as a little contest bonus at work. I knew I wanted to get a GOOD OTR putter. With all the hype around Scotty Cameron putters, it’s hard not to get a little juiced up when you 1st put one in your hands. I personally think $300 for a putter is f’n crazy. I would never spend that kind of money on a putter, but this was my opportunity to do so without taxing the normal cash flow that pays the bills.

Is it anything amazing and out of this world about it? No. Have I shot my best scores of my life? Yes. Am I a better putter after getting a SC? I guess so, the scores don’t lie.

There are some amazing OTR putters in that $250-500 range. Ping Redwood for example. But I do have to say that the hype/marketing machine that is Scotty Cameron got me. But I will also so I am FAR from disappointed with my purchase. It’s a great putter that works for me. Results don’t lie.

As for these $2k+ putters…. I guess to each their own. I can sit at a Hold’em Table in AC with $100 and get a rush when I double up. Some people need to sit down with $5k to even be interested. Really, to each their own.

[Six Pints]

[quote name='foregasim' post='1836072' date='Jul 22 2009, 09:45 AM']Considering how good Cameron is at Twisting necks and doing other custom work, why would he be really surprised that he did not break the neck? I have never heard of him breaking a neck off a putter when twisting it or doing anything else to it. I think he said "they" and that is why he was "really surprised" the neck was not broken, because someone other than he did the twisting.[/quote]


Are you able to explain the performance advantages of a twisted neck? I would really like to spend a bunch of money on a new putter as I feel that my confidence is waning with my current assortment. I know it will take a year to get a twisty neck putter and I'm hoping that by just sending off the check that my putting will improve slightly with my OTR Cameron's.


Also wondering if Scotty still has his Mini... maybe the confusion in the count is because he doesn't know where his is at? What if he sold it?

[Six Pints]

[quote name='CallawayOnly' post='1836195' date='Jul 22 2009, 10:46 AM'][quote name='Six Pints' post='1835950' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:30 AM']Here is a link to the SC International Collectors Convention where there is an interesting comment at about 3:38...
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4[/url]
For those of you who don't want to listen..... Scotty says "I'm surprised THEY didn't break the neck on how tight those twists are on the neck"
It appears to me that even if you spend $15k on a handmade putter there is no guarantee that Scotty even touched the putter (unless you count waving the finished product around to the adoring fans).
On the plus side... imagine how much confidence I will have in the putter because I spent so much! By the way, how does the twisted neck enhance performance? I mean I don't really care as I'll be knocking them in from everywhere because it was expensive... but the guys in my foursome might ask and I want to baffle them with technical jargon.[/quote]
This topic was [b]beat to death[/b] in another thread some time ago. I do however find it really funny when the Cameron's boys keep pointing out that he is just way too busy to make putters while running this multi million dollar business, but yet they point out over and over that he is saying [b]I[/b] when talking about the twisty neck putter in the video.
So is he or is he not too busy to make putter's? My guess is he has not made anything outside of tons of money in serveral years. After all he is a busy man.
[/quote]


Sorry to have dragged out the dead horse... I've not been involved with golf forums until just recently.

I am still very interested in learning the performance benefits of a twisted neck... There just has to be something significant to it because otherwise it would just be... uhhh... putter art? Please tell me that's not where the phrase "Art of Putting" came from??? I just had visions of Orange County Choppers and the long line of posers begging to spend six-figures on a bike.

[Pure745]

[quote name='Six Pints' post='1836249' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:06 AM'][quote name='CallawayOnly' post='1836195' date='Jul 22 2009, 10:46 AM'][quote name='Six Pints' post='1835950' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:30 AM']Here is a link to the SC International Collectors Convention where there is an interesting comment at about 3:38...
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIGJNlBK9t4[/url]
For those of you who don't want to listen..... Scotty says "I'm surprised THEY didn't break the neck on how tight those twists are on the neck"
It appears to me that even if you spend $15k on a handmade putter there is no guarantee that Scotty even touched the putter (unless you count waving the finished product around to the adoring fans).
On the plus side... imagine how much confidence I will have in the putter because I spent so much! By the way, how does the twisted neck enhance performance? I mean I don't really care as I'll be knocking them in from everywhere because it was expensive... but the guys in my foursome might ask and I want to baffle them with technical jargon.[/quote]
This topic was [b]beat to death[/b] in another thread some time ago. I do however find it really funny when the Cameron's boys keep pointing out that he is just way too busy to make putters while running this multi million dollar business, but yet they point out over and over that he is saying [b]I[/b] when talking about the twisty neck putter in the video.
So is he or is he not too busy to make putter's? My guess is he has not made anything outside of tons of money in serveral years. After all he is a busy man.
[/quote]


Sorry to have dragged out the dead horse... I've not been involved with golf forums until just recently.

I am still very interested in learning the performance benefits of a twisted neck... There just has to be something significant to it because otherwise it would just be... uhhh... putter art? Please tell me that's not where the phrase "Art of Putting" came from??? I just had visions of Orange County Choppers and the long line of posers begging to spend six-figures on a bike.
[/quote]

It is about "art", this whole thread is about it. "art" "collectable" "rare" "authentic" "handmade" "custom" All "art" collectors are very intrigued with their pieces and the history behind them. Scotty portrays his rarer pieces as works of art.. Can you imagine what would happen if a high $$ collector of paintings found out that his prized 1 of 5 didn't even paint it himself? Let alone now now the 1 of 5 isn't even an accurate #? That painter/artist's integrity is now in question, such as all of his other paintings.. thus dropping their value. So now, it would make sense that all of the owners "hide" the actual information about him not actually painting his own paintings, or sell them all together.

This thread has both parties involved