rules,rules rules

[fishlips723]

on the green question

If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks

[dpark]

[quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her

[fishlips723]

[quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.

[oldgoalie]

It's not outside info if you remind them that they moved their mark - e.g. "you moved your mark".

Just like you can point out a yardage marker, but can't advise them as to what you think their yardage is or what club to hit.

[fishlips723]

[quote name='oldgoalie' post='1856671' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:54 PM']It's not outside info if you remind them that they moved their mark - e.g. "you moved your mark".

Just like you can point out a yardage marker, but can't advise them as to what you think their yardage is or what club to hit.[/quote]
You are allowed to tell someone where the yardage marker is because thats general information and available to every golfer.You are not allowed to tell someone what club to use because thats specific outside information.
So is telling someone to move their ball marker back,its specific outside information.

[Jer-Jer]

I'm pretty sure you're allowed to. I remember in some tourney a playing partner reminded Aaron Badds to replace his marker on the 18th green of the final day. Badds won that tourney.

[cave]

I know the player who asked them to move the marker, temporarily, can remind them. I have never come across the situation where ANOTHER player has reminded the person...

good question

[funkyfedora]

That could be tagged as "giving advice" and if you want to be a ***** about it, if he doesn't move his mark back then he played from the wrong place...

[KevCarter]

Please see the definition of Advice:

Advice
"Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.
[b]Information on the Rules[/b], distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, [b]is not advice.[/b]

Kevin

[funkyfedora]

So I was right? Telling him to replace his mark is "influence a player in determining his play" ?

[fishlips723]

[quote name='funkyfedora' post='1856809' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:57 PM']That could be tagged as "giving advice" and if you want to be a ***** about it, if he doesn't move his mark back then he played from the wrong place...[/quote]
Dont get me wrong,I am far from a guy who runs around calling bs penalties on people.I dont think in my life I've ever called a penalty on someone.
I just want the correct ruling not to win something by default.
I am very sure that you cant tell someone to move their marker back but I cant find it at the
usga rule site.

[funkyfedora]

If it is a relaxed round then just remind him and get on with the round...

[KevCarter]

[quote name='funkyfedora' post='1856820' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:03 PM']So I was right? Telling him to replace his mark is "influence a player in determining his play" ?[/quote]

Sorry, that was not helping him determine his play, it was helping him avoid running afoul of the rules. No penalty, and you will see it happen all the time in tournament play.

Kevin

[KevCarter]

[quote name='funkyfedora' post='1856868' date='Jul 31 2009, 10:27 PM']If it is a relaxed round then just remind him and get on with the round...[/quote]

If it is the US Open remind him and get on with the round...

Kevin

[fishlips723]

It happened in our Club Championship tournament between two other golfers in Match play

[Jesperday]

[quote name='fishlips723' post='1856877' date='Jul 31 2009, 11:31 PM']It happened in our Club Championship tournament between two other golfers in Match play[/quote]

how did it play out? what exactly happened?

[cave]

[quote name='funkyfedora' post='1856820' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:03 PM']So I was right? Telling him to replace his mark is "influence a player in determining his play" ?[/quote]

Sorry no - happens all the time in the PGA. You always see guys pointing to moved marks and nodding at each other.

It isn't advice, it's a "matter of public information ... on the putting green."

Now, if nobody reminded the poor guy and he forgot to move his marker back, he suffers a stroke and is required to replace his ball in the original spot and replay. (in stroke play)

[hbear]

Telling a guy he moved his marker...which apparently in some people's crazy world thinks it would influences his play and even crazier is that same somebody wants to call a penalty on it?
Get a grip!

That IS NOT advice....get real!

The reason you CAN'T find ANYTHING suggesting it is against the rules in the USGA Rulebook is because IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES!

I honestly don't know hom much clearer it can be.
But if you really want to I, suggest you send an email to te USGA rules commitee and see what they respond back with.

[fishlips723]

[quote name='hbear' post='1857079' date='Aug 1 2009, 01:44 AM']Telling a guy he moved his marker...which apparently in some people's crazy world thinks it would influences his play and even crazier is that same somebody wants to call a penalty on it?
Get a grip!

That IS NOT advice....get real!

The reason you CAN'T find ANYTHING suggesting it is against the rules in the USGA Rulebook is because IT'S NOT AGAINST THE RULES!

I honestly don't know hom much clearer it can be.
But if you really want to I, suggest you send an email to te USGA rules commitee and see what they respond back with.[/quote]
Whoa,whoa,whoa,lets review here,I DIDNT CALL ANYTHING ON ANYBODY.This was a discussion on the deck after what had happened earlier that day.
In our B flight Club Championship which is Match play.player A asked player B to move his marker out of his putting line,after which, player A called a penalty on Player B for not replacing his ball marker.
So the arguement was whether or not player A was EVEN ABLE to advise player B to move his ball back (BESIDES BEING A BAD SPORTSMANSHIP WHICH WE ALL AGREE ON,BUT WAS HE EVEN ABLE TO TELL HIM TO MOVE HIS BALL MARKER BACK?).
Again,I wasnt involved in the match,I was only involved in the discussion,stop shooting the messanger.
PS:I did send an email to Usga already but on their site it says it might take up to two weeks for an anwser.

[OpusX20]

[quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".

[teejaywhy]

No penalty to remind someone to replace their ball mark.

[fishlips723]

[quote name='OpusX20' post='1858204' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:22 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".


[/quote]

Telling someone that "[u]A Marker[/u] needs to be replaced on the green" is general infomation on the rules and can be shared.But telling someone that "[u]His marker needs to be replaced" [/u]is outside information

[OpusX20]

[quote name='fishlips723' post='1858274' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:00 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858204' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:22 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".


[/quote]

Telling someone that "[u]A Marker[/u] needs to be replaced on the green" is general infomation on the rules and can be shared.But telling someone that "[u]His marker needs to be replaced" [/u]is outside information
[/quote]

Based on what? Either one is information on the Rules. Replacing the "A" with a "His" is an artificial differentiation. Can you cite any Rule or Decision that supports this? Do you really think all the guys on Tour that are doing this should be penalized and the rules officials are just missing it?

[fishlips723]

[quote name='OpusX20' post='1858294' date='Aug 1 2009, 08:12 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1858274' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:00 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858204' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:22 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".


[/quote]

Telling someone that "[u]A Marker[/u] needs to be replaced on the green" is general infomation on the rules and can be shared.But telling someone that "[u]His marker needs to be replaced" [/u]is outside information
[/quote]

Replacing the "A" with a "His" is an artificial differentiation.
[/quote]
NO ITS NOT

[OpusX20]

[quote name='fishlips723' post='1858302' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:18 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858294' date='Aug 1 2009, 08:12 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1858274' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:00 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858204' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:22 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".


[/quote]

Telling someone that "[u]A Marker[/u] needs to be replaced on the green" is general infomation on the rules and can be shared.But telling someone that "[u]His marker needs to be replaced" [/u]is outside information
[/quote]

Replacing the "A" with a "His" is an artificial differentiation.
[/quote]
NO ITS NOT
[/quote]

Excellent response and well documented.

So, let's use that logic. Player X moves his marker so it is out of Y's line. After Y putts, he is permitted to say to X "A marker needs to be replaced on the green". But, if B says to X, "Your marker needs to be replaced", Y is penalized.

Is that what you are saying?

[fishlips723]

[quote name='OpusX20' post='1858314' date='Aug 1 2009, 08:29 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1858302' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:18 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858294' date='Aug 1 2009, 08:12 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1858274' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:00 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858204' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:22 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".


[/quote]

Telling someone that "[u]A Marker[/u] needs to be replaced on the green" is general infomation on the rules and can be shared.But telling someone that "[u]His marker needs to be replaced" [/u]is outside information
[/quote]

Replacing the "A" with a "His" is an artificial differentiation.
[/quote]
NO ITS NOT
[/quote]

Excellent response and well documented.

So, let's use that logic. Player X moves his marker so it is out of Y's line. After Y putts, he is permitted to say to X "A marker needs to be replaced on the green". But, if B says to X, "Your marker needs to be replaced", Y is penalized.

Is that what you are saying?
[/quote]
No thats not what I am saying ( to be honest with you,you are muddling the conversation and I have no idea what the he!! you are saying).But I'll give it a try:
Neither player Y nor B in your example is allowed to tell X to replace his ball marker.Now,both Y and B are allwed to talk with player X about the general rule of replacing balls on the green,but they can not remind him of replacing HIS ball after he was asked to move it.

[OpusX20]

[quote name='fishlips723' post='1858504' date='Aug 1 2009, 09:27 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858314' date='Aug 1 2009, 08:29 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1858302' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:18 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858294' date='Aug 1 2009, 08:12 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1858274' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:00 PM'][quote name='OpusX20' post='1858204' date='Aug 1 2009, 07:22 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856653' date='Jul 31 2009, 08:44 PM'][quote name='dpark' post='1856580' date='Jul 31 2009, 09:13 PM'][quote name='fishlips723' post='1856517' date='Jul 31 2009, 05:42 PM']If you ask your opponent to move his marker out of your line of putt,are you allowed to remind him to replace his marker??

Again,I need the rule not just what is courtesy.

Thanks[/quote]

There is no requirement, but common courtesy would be to remind him/her
[/quote]
I have to respectfully disagree,I think thats outside information and against the rule,but I cant find it in the rule book.
[/quote]


The answer to this question is under Rule 8 in the definitions section. It says, ""Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke. Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice."

Moving a marker back is a Rule. Therefore, advising an opponent to move their marker back to the previous position would be considered "Information on the Rules" and not considered "advice".


[/quote]

Telling someone that "[u]A Marker[/u] needs to be replaced on the green" is general infomation on the rules and can be shared.But telling someone that "[u]His marker needs to be replaced" [/u]is outside information
[/quote]

Replacing the "A" with a "His" is an artificial differentiation.
[/quote]
NO ITS NOT
[/quote]

Excellent response and well documented.

So, let's use that logic. Player X moves his marker so it is out of Y's line. After Y putts, he is permitted to say to X "A marker needs to be replaced on the green". But, if B says to X, "Your marker needs to be replaced", Y is penalized.

Is that what you are saying?
[/quote]
No thats not what I am saying ( to be honest with you,you are muddling the conversation and I have no idea what the he!! you are saying).But I'll give it a try:
Neither player Y nor B in your example is allowed to tell X to replace his ball marker.Now,both Y and B are allwed to talk with player X about the general rule of replacing balls on the green,but they can not remind him of replacing HIS ball after he was asked to move it.
[/quote]

I'll try and ask again, what are you basing your opinion on? I gave you the rule where this is made clear (Rule 8). And you said that it is "outside information". What is outside information? Maybe if you can point me to the Rule or Decision that defines outside information I can better understand what you're trying to say.

[hbear]

Edit: As posted before from the USGA Site.
[quote]Advice
"Advice" is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the [i][b][u]choice of a club or the method of making a stroke.[/u][/b][/i] Information on the Rules, distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green, is not advice.[/quote]
Advice only applies if it effects a players choice of club or method of making a stroke....neither of which applies when reminding a player that he/she moved their ball marker.

[Jer-Jer]

Wow I can't believe this thread is still going on. Moving your ball marker back is a RULE and you are allowed to inform people of RULES.

[huy]

Why did you even bother asking this question if you are just going to argue and not accept the answer?