Rules Question - This is the Second Time in a Tournament I've Come Across This One

[ballzo]

Whats the ruling?

I played in a fairly big handicap event last week and one of the guys in my group was a smoker. On many occasions he would set or throw his cigar down just outside his ball. He did in on the tee, in the fairway and on the greens. I'm wondering...Could this be considered an alignment aid or breach of rule 8-2 Indicating the line of play?


Indicating Line of Play

a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

[KevCarter]

It depends upon his intent. Was he actually using it as an alignment aid?

Kevin

[sfagolfjp]

I would have watched him closely.... if he picked it back up and replaced it in a similar position after sitting down the first time before he addressed the ball to hit...say something..... offer to hold it for him while he hits...you'll be able to tell right away if he has ill intent with its placement..........I ran accross a guy in a bbq tourny once that was doing the same thing...IN THE PRO FLIGHT ...... he withdrew after I confronted him

[ballzo]

A few times it looked like he intentionally placed it but most of the time not.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='ballzo' post='1945577' date='Sep 11 2009, 02:18 PM']I played in a fairly big handicap event last week and one of the guys in my group was a smoker. On many occasions he would set or throw his cigar down just outside his ball. He did in on the tee, in the fairway and on the greens. I'm wondering...Could this be considered an alignment aid or breach of rule 8-2 Indicating the line of play?


Indicating Line of Play

a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the [url="http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253#PuttingGreen"][i]putting green[/i][/url], a player may have the [url="http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253#LineofPlay"][i]line of play[/i][/url] indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the [url="http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253#Hole"][i]hole[/i][/url] while the [url="http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253#Stroke"][i]stroke[/i][/url] is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the [url="http://www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14253#Stroke"][i]stroke[/i][/url] is made.[/quote]

You must have encountered a real odd ball. I've played in more tournaments then I can count, in multiple states and never faced anyone that was serious about that, but have heard that line many times. I laugh it off and say watch my shot, then tell me I need such aide. then say something like are you affraid of getting beat?

[ballzo]

[quote]You must have encountered a real odd ball. I've played in more tournaments then I can count, in multiple states and never faced anyone that was serious about that, but have heard that line many times. I laugh it off and say watch my shot, then tell me I need such aide. biggrin.gif then say something like are you affraid of getting beat?[/quote]

Not sure I follow you?

[boo radley]

[quote name='ballzo' post='1945759' date='Sep 11 2009, 06:49 PM'][quote]You must have encountered a real odd ball. I've played in more tournaments then I can count, in multiple states and never faced anyone that was serious about that, but have heard that line many times. I laugh it off and say watch my shot, then tell me I need such aide. biggrin.gif then say something like are you affraid of getting beat?[/quote]

Not sure I follow you?
[/quote]

I suspect he means that his shots were erratic or occasionally awful enough that an artificial aiming device isn't a factor, and clearly he was just setting his cigar/cigarette/? down -- no idea what Pepperturbo smokes.

[OpusX20]

If he wasn't doing it all the time I would probably give him the benefit of the doubt. As a cigar smoker, I am very careful when setting my cigar on the ground. I am trying not to knock the ash off of the tip. It may look as if I'm trying to lay the cigar down in a specific place when I am really just trying to set it down gently. Personally, I set mine down between me and my bag, so when I walk back I won't forget it. So, sometimes that might put the cigar in front of me and sometimes behind me. The times it's in front, it could look "intentional". This will actually make me think twice where I set my cigars down from now on.

[dpark]

This really makes no sense at all. If the player were using the cigar as an alignment aid it would take all of three holes to see if in fact the cigar pointed down the line of his putt. Also unless he was putting the cigar down looking down the line of his putt, it would be pretty difficult to aim the cigar from the side of the ball.

Most cigars are also shorter than a BIC pen. Put a BIC pen down between your feet, and see how much it helps you align your stance. Its too friggin' short to make a difference....

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='boo radley' post='1945770' date='Sep 11 2009, 03:58 PM'][quote name='ballzo' post='1945759' date='Sep 11 2009, 06:49 PM'][quote]You must have encountered a real odd ball. I've played in more tournaments then I can count, in multiple states and never faced anyone that was serious about that, but have heard that line many times. I laugh it off and say watch my shot, then tell me I need such aide. biggrin.gif then say something like are you affraid of getting beat?[/quote]

Not sure I follow you?
[/quote]

I suspect he means that his shots were erratic or occasionally awful enough that an artificial aiming device isn't a factor, and clearly he was just setting his cigar/cigarette/? down -- no idea what Pepperturbo smokes.
[/quote]

No, didn't mean that. I meant I post a 71-75 range playing the ball down; and anyone that would worry their head over a cigar being an alignment aide has deeper issues. As for what I smoke; Cohiba Siglo VI, Cuban Punch Punch, Cuban Monte No 2's, and finished off my last Cohiba PIRAMIDE Edicion Limitada 2006 this past weekend.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='OpusX20' post='1945799' date='Sep 11 2009, 04:13 PM']If he wasn't doing it all the time I would probably give him the benefit of the doubt. As a cigar smoker, I am very careful when setting my cigar on the ground. I am trying not to knock the ash off of the tip. It may look as if I'm trying to lay the cigar down in a specific place when I am really just trying to set it down gently. Personally, I set mine down between me and my bag, so when I walk back I won't forget it. So, sometimes that might put the cigar in front of me and sometimes behind me. The times it's in front, it could look "intentional". This will actually make me think twice where I set my cigars down from now on.[/quote]

You bring up a good point. I too make it a point to put my cigar down carefully so as not to knock off the ash, but only seasoned cigar smokers would know the value in that. I usually set mine down about a foot or so from where my ball sets.

I could never forget my cigar. Aside for my love of golf, I live for enjoying cigars while playing golf.

[ELVISsf]

sorry to get off topic. but what is the reason for not knocking the ashes off your cigar?

[BugsyinNC]

I used to play with a good player who was a smoker and he always put his cig down near the ball. He said he watched the smoke to determine wind direction. Not sure if it mattered, he was a good low single digit player well into his 60's.

[dpark]

[quote name='ELVISsf' post='1949766' date='Sep 14 2009, 09:39 AM']sorry to get off topic. but what is the reason for not knocking the ashes off your cigar?[/quote]
The ash on the tip helps the cigar tobacco have a "cooler burn" so the smoke you pull into your mouth (not your lungs, as you are not supposed to fully inhale cigar smoke) when you puff has a smoother, more velvety feel, rather than a harsh taste.

For those who think any form of smoking is stupid, it won't make any sense, but for those who do enjoy a smoke, keeping a 1/2" of ash on the end (or more) makes the cigar (smoke) taste much better.

[OpusX20]

[quote name='dpark' post='1950738' date='Sep 14 2009, 06:49 PM'][quote name='ELVISsf' post='1949766' date='Sep 14 2009, 09:39 AM']sorry to get off topic. but what is the reason for not knocking the ashes off your cigar?[/quote]
The ash on the tip helps the cigar tobacco have a "cooler burn" so the smoke you pull into your mouth (not your lungs, as you are not supposed to fully inhale cigar smoke) when you puff has a smoother, more velvety feel, rather than a harsh taste.

For those who think any form of smoking is stupid, it won't make any sense, but for those who do enjoy a smoke, keeping a 1/2" of ash on the end (or more) makes the cigar (smoke) taste much better.
[/quote]

dpark said it perfectly.

The top two reasons (IMO) people try cigars and don't like them are:
1) They start with a very poor quality cigar (usually something machine made)
2) They ash far too often making the smoke harsh

[Pepperturbo]

Opus, I completely agree... Many golf courses pick some pretty raunchy sticks to offer for sale too. As you know, we can always tell the quality of the cigar by how even and smooth it burns, and how long the ash stays put before falling off.

Can't count the times someone that doesn't smoke comment on how enjoyable the smoke is from my choice in cigars. They also chuckle when the ashes fall on my nice shirt or shorts. I am happy to say numerous friends actually look forward to my second hand smoke. I've even had one Dr friend tell me during a round it was time to light up.

There's a big difference between a cheap and quality cigars. My FIL smoked inexpensive cigars for most of his life, and quit years back. However, on one of our recent visits I offered him a cigar without telling him what it was, no band. He said great, so we went out on the patio with some port and fired them up. He was blown away by the flavor. He said he'd never had anything like it. I told him to enjoy and wouldn't tell him what it was or how much it cost, or how long it rested in the Dor until he finished.

[larrybud]

[quote name='dpark' post='1950738' date='Sep 14 2009, 07:49 PM'][quote name='ELVISsf' post='1949766' date='Sep 14 2009, 09:39 AM']sorry to get off topic. but what is the reason for not knocking the ashes off your cigar?[/quote]
The ash on the tip helps the cigar tobacco have a "cooler burn" so the smoke you pull into your mouth (not your lungs, as you are not supposed to fully inhale cigar smoke) when you puff has a smoother, more velvety feel, rather than a harsh taste.

For those who think any form of smoking is stupid, it won't make any sense, but for those who do enjoy a smoke, keeping a 1/2" of ash on the end (or more) makes the cigar (smoke) taste much better.
[/quote]
When I puke it up the next day, does it taste better?? ;-)

[boo radley]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1949739' date='Sep 14 2009, 12:23 PM'][erroneous conjecture deleted...]

No, didn't mean that. I meant I post a 71-75 range playing the ball down; and anyone that would worry their head over a cigar being an alignment aide has deeper issues. As for what I smoke; Cohiba Siglo VI, Cuban Punch Punch, Cuban Monte No 2's, and finished off my last Cohiba PIRAMIDE Edicion Limitada 2006 this past weekend. [/quote]

Oh...Odd then, you'd hear that specific comment so many times. Were your opponents trying a mental game against you?

Hey, you know why smoking a cigar is like oral sex? I mean besides the more obvious 'sucking-on-a-phallus' symbolism, that I suppose all male cigar smokers have to deal with?

Because: [i]the closer you get to the butt, the stronger the taste gets.
[/i]
(thanks everyone; please don't forget to tip your wait staff....)