What are symptoms of a shaft that's too short?

[Geohans]

Balance issues; "reaching," toe hits?

What issues crop up when a shaft is too short for a golfer? How about too long? Thanks.

[gdb99]

I'm not sure, but I was trying out a Ping driver that was 1.25" longer than I'm used to on a monitor today. I was hitting big fades to the right. I had a hard time turning it over.

[DaveLeeNC]

Assuming that the lie of your club/shaft combo is OK for your swing, then "too long" is really a control issue and can be an issue in getting the distance differences between clubs that works for you.

Unless you are talking about wedges and are tall with short arms and maybe a 35" wedge truly is too short for you, there is no "too short". Shorter will generally give you more control and shorter distances. Find a wedge length that works for your swing, and build your set up from there. Or you can even go with single length irons such as [url="http://www.1irongolf.com"]http://www.1irongolf.com[/url].

dave

[TLT_Dan]

You want to be in your strongest athletic address position.
From this point the toe of the club should be slightly up at static.
The grip should end correctly so the club is not being choked down (too long) on or palmed (too short).

You don't want to be crouched nor standing too upright, as neather of these are strong athletic positions.

Length and lie are directly related and if 1 is out the shot will not be strainght.

[FAIRWAYFOUND!]

I don't think you can have clubs that are too short or too long. If your 7 iron is the length of your 9 iron you will address it the same as you would your 9 iron. Same swing and your 7 iron will go a little longer than your 9 iron's normal length. Same if your 9 iron is the length of your 7 iron. I'm currently playing some new irons that are .5" over standard (haven't reshafted yet) while my woods are all .5" shorter than standard with no problems with contact.

[chickenpotpie]

I've found that clubs that are too short cause me to stoop over more at address. During the swing, I then find I lift up ever so slightly...enough that it's difficult to get back to the same position as at address. This leads to inconsistent fat and thin shots.

I get the theory about the single iron swing, but don't you also have to adjust the lie angles? I could see you going to more pronounced draws or fades if you left the lie angles as standard.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='chickenpotpie' date='16 January 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1263649659' post='2184759']
I've found that clubs that are too short cause me to stoop over more at address. During the swing, I then find I lift up ever so slightly...enough that it's difficult to get back to the same position as at address. This leads to inconsistent fat and thin shots.

I get the theory about the single iron swing, but don't you also have to adjust the lie angles? I could see you going to more pronounced draws or fades if you left the lie angles as standard.
[/quote]

If you buy clubs from (for example) 1irongolf, the lie angles will have have been adjusted (to be the same). If you do it yourself then you would have to do it yourself :-)

dave

[KevCarter]

Try not to forget, it's not the length that matters, it's how you use it...

Kevin

[kamtile]

Fewer second dates.

[sandman]

[quote name='chickenpotpie' date='16 January 2010 - 08:47 AM' timestamp='1263649659' post='2184759']
I've found that clubs that are too short cause me to stoop over more at address. During the swing, I then find I lift up ever so slightly...enough that it's difficult to get back to the same position as at address. This leads to inconsistent fat and thin shots.

[/quote]

Exactly what I have found also. The length difference on the sole contact point can be seen very quickly using a lie board or black rubber mat. This is another area where I think Ping has it right. They adjust the lie angle for the length of the club they build. For example, a green dot iron will be 2* upright at their standard length, but at 1/2" over, the lie will be a blue dot head lie angle (1* up) to compensate for the added length effect on the dynamic lie. It will still be a green dot iron but they take the difference between static and dynamic lies into account when building clubs to various lengths.

The opposite would be true if building an iron shorter than their standard length.

[verse214]

[quote name='FAIRWAYFOUND!' date='15 January 2010 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1263616325' post='2184371']
I don't think you can have clubs that are too short or too long. If your 7 iron is the length of your 9 iron you will address it the same as you would your 9 iron. Same swing and your 7 iron will go a little longer than your 9 iron's normal length. Same if your 9 iron is the length of your 7 iron. I'm currently playing some new irons that are .5" over standard (haven't reshafted yet) while my woods are all .5" shorter than standard with no problems with contact.
[/quote]

I disagree with the above post and I think it is incorrect.

The lie angle on your clubs determines how far you set up to the ball - generally you try to address the ball with the toe slightly up. Your 7 and 9 irons have totally different lie angles. You aren't going to set up to the ball with the toe down in to the ground or pointing straight up in the air.. you'll adjust until it "looks right". Once you adjust so that it looks right and if the irons are well short, you will feel extremely uncomfortable; however if the irons are only half an inch too short, it may be too little to notice outright. The reason why your woods don't give you a problem is because the lofts are so low -- at lower lofts, lie angle is not a factor of ball flight so you can have a driver that is too upright and not be able to tell that the lie angle needs to be adjusted. Because of this, you will go ahead and set up how you feel most comfortable and not see it apparent in your ball flight.

If your irons are too short, you will bend over too much at setup, creating a swing that is too upright. Or you will end up sitting down too much in the set up and not get the full range of motion that you should in a golf swing leading to blocked shots and fat and thin shots. You will tire more easily from being less comfortable in the golf swing. As you stand up after you tire, you will notice toe shots.

I recently switched to +1/2" - signs that led me to believe my irons were too short: I would get tired at the range from setting up incorrectly, I was setting up closer and closer to the ball - making my hands set up too close to my body and jamming me in my downswing causing me to stand up at impact. After I moved my hands farther away to resolve my standing up, I started noticing all toe shots (this is probably the predominant signal that your irons are too short). After switching, all of the above were naturally resolved without any swing changes. I do not get any muscle pulls in my shoulders from standing up at impact and I feel that I can swing much more comfortably .

Good Luck.

[Bayou Kato]

For a driver, I noticed that 'too long' meant I was making contact on the heel of the club. It was amazing that all my ball-marks were clustered around the heel. We shortened it up a half-inch, and that moved the impact (with the same swing and impact) into the sweet spot. I'm thinking I could have even gone .75" shorter (from a standard, stock length of 45.75") ... but the guy fitting me didn't think so. Once corrected, I got more consistent ball striking and results.

[Sabaka]

[quote name='kamtile' date='16 January 2010 - 08:02 AM' timestamp='1263650526' post='2184779']
Fewer second dates.
[/quote]

LOL!!!

I'm sorry...I know the guy is looking for genuine help, but this one was just too good!

[maxilim]

Check out Titleist fittingwork's explanation of Length Fitting. http://www.fittingworks.com/TechnologyProcess/FittingMethodology/DriverFitting.aspx

I've played drivers with heavier shafts (75+ gr) and shafts longer thand 45.5". I tend to hit them on the heel. To correct the matter, I'll reposition the ball towards the toe and hope and pray I hit center. I don't like the feel of choking down on the club.

When you have the time, try swinging a shorter driver (44" to 44 1/2") driver. You may be pleasantly surprised.

[DaveLeeNC]

[quote name='verse214' date='16 January 2010 - 11:28 AM' timestamp='1263659319' post='2184973']
[quote name='FAIRWAYFOUND!' date='15 January 2010 - 11:32 PM' timestamp='1263616325' post='2184371']
I don't think you can have clubs that are too short or too long. If your 7 iron is the length of your 9 iron you will address it the same as you would your 9 iron. Same swing and your 7 iron will go a little longer than your 9 iron's normal length. Same if your 9 iron is the length of your 7 iron. I'm currently playing some new irons that are .5" over standard (haven't reshafted yet) while my woods are all .5" shorter than standard with no problems with contact.
[/quote]

I disagree with the above post and I think it is incorrect.

The lie angle on your clubs determines how far you set up to the ball - generally you try to address the ball with the toe slightly up. Your 7 and 9 irons have totally different lie angles. You aren't going to set up to the ball with the toe down in to the ground or pointing straight up in the air.. you'll adjust until it "looks right". Once you adjust so that it looks right and if the irons are well short, you will feel extremely uncomfortable; however if the irons are only half an inch too short, it may be too little to notice outright. The reason why your woods don't give you a problem is because the lofts are so low -- at lower lofts, lie angle is not a factor of ball flight so you can have a driver that is too upright and not be able to tell that the lie angle needs to be adjusted. Because of this, you will go ahead and set up how you feel most comfortable and not see it apparent in your ball flight.

If your irons are too short, you will bend over too much at setup, creating a swing that is too upright. Or you will end up sitting down too much in the set up and not get the full range of motion that you should in a golf swing leading to blocked shots and fat and thin shots. You will tire more easily from being less comfortable in the golf swing. As you stand up after you tire, you will notice toe shots.

I recently switched to +1/2" - signs that led me to believe my irons were too short: I would get tired at the range from setting up incorrectly, I was setting up closer and closer to the ball - making my hands set up too close to my body and jamming me in my downswing causing me to stand up at impact. After I moved my hands farther away to resolve my standing up, I started noticing all toe shots (this is probably the predominant signal that your irons are too short). After switching, all of the above were naturally resolved without any swing changes. I do not get any muscle pulls in my shoulders from standing up at impact and I feel that I can swing much more comfortably .

Good Luck.
[/quote]


I believe that the point that FAIRWAY was making is that, now that you have clubs that are 1/2" longer, you still have a 38" club that works for you. It just now has a 6i head on it instead of a 5i head. Those heads have different lies and you fixed a lie problem with length (unless you believe that your swing has some special characteristic that can't hit a 38" club that has a 5 on the bottom, when it works just fine with a 6 on the bottom). Lie can be adjusted without changing length (assuming you have the right equipment and some clubfitters refuse to alter cast irons).

dave

[Bss25]

I just recently went from taylormade tour preffered mc's that were +.5 long and 2* upright to standard length and lie on a set titleist 714 AP2's. I have always hit the ball high but with the AP2s everything is super high no matter how much I flatten out my swing trying to keep it low. Could it be because of the length? I should add that the shafts in both are DG S300. Any input is greatly appreciated.

[3step]

[quote name='Geohans' timestamp='1263599936' post='2183913']
What issues crop up when a shaft is too short for a golfer? How about too long? Thanks.
[/quote]

These type questions are great because they help move equipment selection thinking in a healthy performance direction.

If a shaft is too short, or too long, [u]we make less than our best swing[/u], as we are forced to compensate for the length that is not best for us. We spend more energy on the compensation, and have less energy to motivate that golf ball.

Specifically, if a shaft is too short, we tend to have a shorter swing, a posture that is more "rooted" to the ground, less athleticism, work hard to overcome, less distance, less speed, less consistent contact, we develop less confidence with that club or set, more tension in our swing, we learn more about how to make less than a full swing, we tinker with adjusting the face plane of the head at impact, on average- we achieve less distance, on average- we achieve less control, we are more tired at the end of the round..., and several dozen other not so good things that I can not think of right now.

3step