How to count an OB if you cant re Tee

[Timanator]

Balls that roll ob

This past weekend I was at a Par 4 with water on the left, So I hit the ball fade to the middle that rolled right on to the cart path. By the time we got up to it, it had rolled off more to the right past the white OB marker. How do you count your stroke in this case? Drop and be on your 4th?

[gdb99]

You go back and re-tee. If you want to play by the rules.

[bermuda]

That's the way I have done it, a two-stroke penalty if reteeing is impractical. Best to hit a provisional, though.

[shotmark]

This is not an option when you go OB. You need to go back to where you played the shot from that went OB and play your next from the same place. Penalty is stroke and distance so if your 1st shot went OB you are now playing your 3rd. Hope this clarifies.

[amerza18]

just as a matter of speed of play, if you are holding up guys on the tee, then I would take a 2 stroke and distance penalty at the ball. So after you drop, then you would be hitting 4. Not ideal, you probably want to hit a provisional (3) off the tee prior to going out to your ball, like other folks have stated.

[Timanator]

Thanks guys, That ball didnt look anywhere close to having a chance of going OB to all of us. Until we got there.

[Skaffa77]

I think others have stated the rules so there's no need to rehash. I've encountered similar situations where a ball went OB or was lost, but appeared to be in play at the tee. On crowded Saturday or Sunday morning, speed of play and consideration to others might make it difficult to go back to the tee. It's not playing by the rules to take 2 strokes and drop, but it might be your best option if you don't want to "Ranger Rick" to be on your group all day.

Amazingly, I've also seen a few people called out by other groups on occassion for hitting "multiple" balls of the tee when taking a provisional. It's amazing what a slow pace a play does to people's courtsey.

[B Keller]

[quote name='Timanator' date='16 March 2010 - 09:05 AM' timestamp='1268748345' post='2319355']
Thanks guys, That ball didnt look anywhere close to having a chance of going OB to all of us. Until we got there.


[/quote]
Been there before. You look at it and think it's not ideal but playable. THen you get there and it's no where to be found.

[BallzOut]

Weekend golf is FAR from tournament golf....

If you’re playing in a foursome, and playing for money, or a match on a busy day, discuss the rules on the FIRST tee just incase this happens; that way if the situation should arise, it has been discussed and the appropriate penalties can be applied without argument or disruption of your rhythm and mental state. An argument over a rule with your playing partners can send your game into a tail spin quickly!

I would suggest a 2 club length drop from all obstructions, and hitting 4 from there, for speed of play issues.

[luxman]

One public track that I played had a local rule that for OB to basically play it as a lateral hazard - 2 club lengths from where it crossed and a stroke penalty to speed up play.

[Sawgrass]

I wish the USGA would authorize a local rule which says something like, "In non-tournament rounds, when a player has not hit a provisional and is surprised to find his ball lost or out of bounds, the player may drop his ball and take a two-stroke penalty in lieu of a stroke and distance penalty. In the case of out of bounds, the player shall treat the drop as if the ball had gone into a lateral hazard. In the case of a lost ball, the player shall drop as close as can be estimated to where he previously believed the ball to be."

Such a rule is unlikely to affect handicap scores, since with a two-stroke penalty most people are likely to max out on thier ESC adjustment anyway.

It would certainly speed play.

And for those who play on crowded muni courses, where playing stroke and distance is really not an option, it would allow the player to continue his round with at least a touch of integrity.

[skizix]

Um, yeah, whenever this topic comes up, it is pretty tiresome when like a half dozen folks feel they need to curtly point out that actual stroke-and-distance is the only way to play by the rules. Thank you, we know the rule, and if there is any doubt...ONCE is enough times to remind.

Anyhow, on a crowded course, I am all for everyone in a given x-some agreeing (at the start of the round) on a contingency plan to keep folks behind waiting too much, in the event of an unexpected lost or OB ball. Yes, hitting a provisional is obviously the way to go (and yes it is ironic that impatient folks behind will perceive it as a mulligan that's holding them up), but once in a while you get caught out.

In any case, my point in posting is this: if the course is crowded [i]enough[/i]...you've most likely got plenty of time to go back and re-tee (or otherwise re-hit from same spot), especially if you're in a cart. I mean, if the course is all backed up and you had to wait on the tee for several minutes before you could safely hit, you're almost certain to experience the same on the next tee. In that case, you have plenty of time to play by the actual rules, and that beats just standing there waiting, annoyed about slow pace of play, any day.

[KevCarter]

My opinion,

I don't know why we have this conversation over and over and over...

If you are playing golf, you go back to the tee.

If you are making up your own rules anyway, have fun and who cares. Live and let live. I hate to sound like my grandfather, but if you are keeping a handicap, and don't play by the rules, you are only hurting yourself...

Sorry for the mini rant, and again, just my opinion.

Kevin

[shotmark]

[quote name='skizix' date='16 March 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1268753434' post='2319514']
Um, yeah, whenever this topic comes up, it is pretty tiresome when like a half dozen folks feel they need to curtly point out that actual stroke-and-distance is the only way to play by the rules. Thank you, we know the rule, and if there is any doubt...ONCE is enough times to remind.

Anyhow, on a crowded course, I am all for everyone in a given x-some agreeing (at the start of the round) on a contingency plan to keep folks behind waiting too much, in the event of an unexpected lost or OB ball. Yes, hitting a provisional is obviously the way to go (and yes it is ironic that impatient folks behind will perceive it as a mulligan that's holding them up), but once in a while you get caught out.

In any case, my point in posting is this: if the course is crowded [i]enough[/i]...you've most likely got plenty of time to go back and re-tee (or otherwise re-hit from same spot), especially if you're in a cart. I mean, if the course is all backed up and you had to wait on the tee for several minutes before you could safely hit, you're almost certain to experience the same on the next tee. In that case, you have plenty of time to play by the actual rules, and that beats just standing there waiting, annoyed about slow pace of play, any day.
[/quote]


I humbly apologise for TIRESOMELY explaining the rule for Out of Bounds. Being the FOOL that I am I thought the original poster wanted to know the rule. If you want to invent your own rules then fine but if that is the case there seems to be little point in asking what to do in such circumstances on a Forum. However perhaps I should bow to your CLEARLY SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE and ask you before making any more posts.

[skizix]

My opinion,

 

I don't know why we have this conversation over and over and over...

 

If you are playing golf, you go back to the tee.

 

If you are making up your own rules anyway, have fun and who cares. Live and let live. I hate to sound like my grandfather, but if you are keeping a handicap, and don't play by the rules, you are only hurting yourself...

 

Sorry for the mini rant, and again, just my opinion.

 

Kevin

 

Of all the folks on this board, you probably have the most knowledge of, and passion for, the ROG. Very admirable, and I'm thoroughly confident that you live up this level of integrity whilst out on the course.

 

However, in the right situation (e.g. muni fully loaded on a weekend, not a tourny), I think courtious social interaction precludes a full-on fundamentalist interpretation. And if you cannot see fit to apply a close compromise (dropping where you went OB and hitting four, assuming it was your first tee shot) if necessary...simply disqualify your round from your handicap, the same as if after your round, you realised you'd had 15 clubs in the bag all day (etc., etc.). If you want to play it hardcore and re-tee, I suppose that is your perogative, but be prepared to deal with the wrath of those behind you and/or the marshals.

 

But to say that you are "no longer playing golf" seems downright silly. I mean, it's kind of a superfluous semantic debate, but where do you draw the line? If you were to run out of ProV1's on 17, and hit 18 with a ProV1x...are you no longer playing golf? What about local or winter rules imposed by the course? Right now my home course has a temporary green on one hole (due to snow), out on the fairway -- no hole, just a flagstick stuck in the fairway. That's likely to screw up my handicap more than hitting 4 from an OB, I think. And I don't think the course has recalculated the slope rating or anything (and if they did...would it even be meaningful? There's not even a hole to put the ball in!). Is that no longer golf? Is this round applicable towards a handicap?

 

I applaud your efforts to educate others and convey the importance of adhering to the ROG for continued enjoyment and success of the game. But this is in fact a game, after all, not a religion (and there is always an out: disqualification, if you find you are not able in any practical way to adhere to them all).

 

Just my opinion -- sorry for being overly realistic

[KevCarter]

My opinion,

 

I don't know why we have this conversation over and over and over...

 

If you are playing golf, you go back to the tee.

 

If you are making up your own rules anyway, have fun and who cares. Live and let live. I hate to sound like my grandfather, but if you are keeping a handicap, and don't play by the rules, you are only hurting yourself...

 

Sorry for the mini rant, and again, just my opinion.

 

Kevin

 

Of all the folks on this board, you probably have the most knowledge of, and passion for, the ROG. Very admirable, and I'm thoroughly confident that you live up this level of integrity whilst out on the course.

 

However, in the right situation (e.g. muni fully loaded on a weekend, not a tourny), I think courtious social interaction precludes a full-on fundamentalist interpretation. And if you cannot see fit to apply a close compromise (dropping where you went OB and hitting four, assuming it was your first tee shot) if necessary...simply disqualify your round from your handicap, the same as if after your round, you realised you'd had 15 clubs in the bag all day (etc., etc.). If you want to play it hardcore and re-tee, I suppose that is your perogative, but be prepared to deal with the wrath of those behind you and/or the marshals.

 

But to say that you are "no longer playing golf" seems downright silly. I mean, it's kind of a superfluous semantic debate, but where do you draw the line? If you were to run out of ProV1's on 17, and hit 18 with a ProV1x...are you no longer playing golf? What about local or winter rules imposed by the course? Right now my home course has a temporary green on one hole (due to snow), out on the fairway -- no hole, just a flagstick stuck in the fairway. That's likely to screw up my handicap more than hitting 4 from an OB, I think. And I don't think the course has recalculated the slope rating or anything (and if they did...would it even be meaningful? There's not even a hole to put the ball in!). Is that no longer golf? Is this round applicable towards a handicap?

 

I applaud your efforts to educate others and convey the importance of adhering to the ROG for continued enjoyment and success of the game. But this is in fact a game, after all, not a religion (and there is always an out: disqualification, if you find you are not able in any practical way to adhere to them all).

 

Just my opinion -- sorry for being overly realistic

 

Your arguments make no sense. The local rules imposed by the committee are the rules for the day. The one ball rule is never in effect for everyday play, that is a condition of competition instituted for some tournaments.

 

As I said, do whatever the hell you want. I gave my opinion, bud, I didn't attack you.

 

Kevin

[marrigo]

[quote name='kevcarter ' date='16 March 2010 - 10:06 AM' timestamp='1268755587' post='2319617']

[/quote]

Your arguments make no sense. [i][b]The local rules imposed by the committee are the rules for the day.[/b][/i] The one ball rule is never in effect for everyday play, that is a condition of competition instituted for some tournaments.

As I said, do whatever the hell you want. I gave my opinion, bud, I didn't attack you.

Kevin
[/quote]

Sorry, but the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Committee"][i][color="#000000"]Committee[/color][/i][/url] has no power to waive a Rule of Golf.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='marrigo' date='16 March 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1268759473' post='2319778']
Sorry, but the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Committee"][i][color="#000000"]Committee[/color][/i][/url] has no power to waive a Rule of Golf.
[/quote]

What are you talking about? Who said anything about the committee waiving a rule of golf. Do you understand the concept of local rules or conditions of competition?

Kevin

[youraway2]

[quote name='bermuda' date='16 March 2010 - 08:56 AM' timestamp='1268747794' post='2319333']
That's the way I have done it, a two-stroke penalty if reteeing is impractical. Best to hit a provisional, though.
[/quote]

+1 If there's a chance your ball is OB, then you should have played a provisional. If you did not a take a drop, then your committing another rule infraction by playing the ball from the wrong place. That's if you wish to play by the rules of golf.

[skizix]

 

As I said, do whatever the hell you want. I gave my opinion, bud, I didn't attack you.

 

Kevin

 

I didn't feel like you attacked, did not feel defensive, and do not know how I came across that way. Seems like you feel that way though, despite my trying to be respectful.

 

Anyway, like almost always, I've learned something from your posts (one ball rule not always applying -- not that I normally adhere to that anyhow). Which is great, but clearly, my citing that was just one example from many possibilities, and I don't feel getting that wrong undermines my point.

 

Sigh...I guess we just disagree somewhat about interacting in the actual, complicated, real world vs. the untouchable shining pillars that are the ROG. And do feel free to call what I call golf "whatever the hell you want."

 

Keep fighting the good fight, I guess, but I hope for your sake that utterly-unbending-no-matter-what is not how you approach all aspects of your life...

 

...bud.

[marrigo]

[quote name='kevcarter ' date='16 March 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1268759677' post='2319787']
[quote name='marrigo' date='16 March 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1268759473' post='2319778']
Sorry, but the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Committee"][i][color="#000000"]Committee[/color][/i][/url] has no power to waive a Rule of Golf.
[/quote]

What are you talking about? Who said anything about the committee waiving a rule of golf. Do you understand the concept of local rules or conditions of competition?

Kevin
[/quote]

My bad. I misinterpreted what you meant in reply to Skizix's complex post. I thought you were implying that the Committee could impose a local rule allowing a drop when OB, thus my response. After a more careful reading of Skizix's post I get what you were saying and agree. Didn't intend to offend, and according to wife I actually do not know what I'm talking about most of the time.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='marrigo' date='16 March 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1268760433' post='2319829']
[quote name='kevcarter ' date='16 March 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1268759677' post='2319787']
[quote name='marrigo' date='16 March 2010 - 12:11 PM' timestamp='1268759473' post='2319778']
Sorry, but the [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14253#Committee"][i][color="#000000"]Committee[/color][/i][/url] has no power to waive a Rule of Golf.
[/quote]

What are you talking about? Who said anything about the committee waiving a rule of golf. Do you understand the concept of local rules or conditions of competition?

Kevin
[/quote]

My bad. I misinterpreted what you meant in reply to Skizix's complex post. I thought you were implying that the Committee could impose a local rule allowing a drop when OB, thus my response. After a more careful reading of Skizix's post I get what you were saying and agree. Didn't intend to offend.
[/quote]

You didn't offend at all. No problem.

Kevin

[highergr0und]

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but with the common description of "I thought it was safe and couldn't find it", I'm looking at decision 27-1/3, that reads.....
[b]Q.[/b] A player, unable to find his ball, drops another ball in the area where his original ball was lost and plays that ball. What is the ruling?

[b]A.[/b] In match play, the player loses the hole — Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14292#20-7"]20-7b[/url].

In stroke play, the player incurs the stroke-and-distance penalty prescribed by Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14306#27-1"]27-1[/url] and an additional penalty of two strokes for a breach of that Rule. If the breach was a serious one, he must rectify the error as provided in the second paragraph of Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14292#20-7"]20-7c[/url]; otherwise, he is disqualified.


So you take stroke plus distance to that spot, lying 3, plus 2 more penalty strokes for playing from the wrong place, so you're hitting 6. I believe ESC will pretty much mean that hole is done for you in terms of handicap, and you're looking at a big number on the scorecard.

Now the serious breach part of the rule just says that you'll get dq'd if you somehow gained an advantage from not following the true rule.... I don't think a non tourney round would take it that far...

[KevCarter]

[quote name='highergr0und' date='16 March 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1268760589' post='2319836']
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but with the common description of "I thought it was safe and couldn't find it", I'm looking at decision 27-1/3, that reads.....
[b]Q.[/b] A player, unable to find his ball, drops another ball in the area where his original ball was lost and plays that ball. What is the ruling?

[b]A.[/b] In match play, the player loses the hole — Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14292#20-7"]20-7b[/url].

In stroke play, the player incurs the stroke-and-distance penalty prescribed by Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14306#27-1"]27-1[/url] and an additional penalty of two strokes for a breach of that Rule. If the breach was a serious one, he must rectify the error as provided in the second paragraph of Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/workarea/linkit.aspx?linkidentifier=id&itemid=14292#20-7"]20-7c[/url]; otherwise, he is disqualified.


So you take stroke plus distance to that spot, lying 3, plus 2 more penalty strokes for playing from the wrong place, so you're hitting 6. I believe ESC will pretty much mean that hole is done for you in terms of handicap, and you're looking at a big number on the scorecard.

Now the serious breach part of the rule just says that you'll get dq'd if you somehow gained an advantage from not following the true rule.... I don't think a non tourney round would take it that far...
[/quote]

Good find. Anybody standing there in a casual round wanting to be lying 5, hitting 6 is welcome to it.

Kevin

[skizix]

[quote name='shotmark' date='16 March 2010 - 10:27 AM' timestamp='1268756843' post='2319687']
[quote name='skizix' date='16 March 2010 - 10:30 AM' timestamp='1268753434' post='2319514']
Um, yeah, whenever this topic comes up, it is pretty tiresome when like a half dozen folks feel they need to curtly point out that actual stroke-and-distance is the only way to play by the rules. Thank you, we know the rule, and if there is any doubt...ONCE is enough times to remind.

Anyhow, on a crowded course, I am all for everyone in a given x-some agreeing (at the start of the round) on a contingency plan to keep folks behind waiting too much, in the event of an unexpected lost or OB ball. Yes, hitting a provisional is obviously the way to go (and yes it is ironic that impatient folks behind will perceive it as a mulligan that's holding them up), but once in a while you get caught out.

In any case, my point in posting is this: if the course is crowded [i]enough[/i]...you've most likely got plenty of time to go back and re-tee (or otherwise re-hit from same spot), especially if you're in a cart. I mean, if the course is all backed up and you had to wait on the tee for several minutes before you could safely hit, you're almost certain to experience the same on the next tee. In that case, you have plenty of time to play by the actual rules, and that beats just standing there waiting, annoyed about slow pace of play, any day.
[/quote]


I humbly apologise for TIRESOMELY explaining the rule for Out of Bounds. Being the FOOL that I am I thought the original poster wanted to know the rule. If you want to invent your own rules then fine but if that is the case there seems to be little point in asking what to do in such circumstances on a Forum. However perhaps I should bow to your CLEARLY SUPERIOR KNOWLEDGE and ask you before making any more posts.
[/quote]

No one called you a fool, and I did not suggest my knowledge was superior in any way. [b]And the rule was already clearly explained in post #2, before yours.[/b] Which was my whole point.

I'd argue that it [i]is [/i]a good question to ask in the forum, since pretty much everyone who does not belong to a private club is very likely to run into a situation where it's impractical if not downright rude to walk all the way back and re-tee. If you take your game so seriously that you cannot see fit to accomodate others...there is nothing wrong with that at all, actually, but you should then never be playing a muni on a sunny weekend.

(edited out, even thought it's quoted below) I'm outta here.

[rankoutsider]

Kev is exactly right here; I have no idea what you guys are getting on him for.

Do whatever you like. Drop a ball and play 4 and go about your business, but the rules of golf, if those are what you want to play by, offer you no provision for doing that. You must return to the tee.

As well, and this rule really confuses people, you are only permitted to hit a provisional when there is a reasonable likelihood your ball is lost (you hit it a mile wide of your fairway and lose it, or into the woods, etc.). If you see the ball hit the path and have a good sense of where it landed, you are not permitted to hit a provisional, even to speed up play. If you get to your ball and find it, you must immediately take the provisional out of play, even if you intend to choose, as your remedy, returning to the tee. So, if you hit a provisional, find the original but don't want to play it, you are never permitted to just say "I'll play my provisional instead of this one." The provisional is a provisional against a lost ball only, not against an unplayable lie, or a ball that has rolled OB and is not lost.

But guys, do whatever you want to speed up play. If you have an unwritten rule in your foursome to just drop and play, then go ahead. The rules of golf don't let you do this, but collective assent does. And if you are going to play by a form of consensus, then maybe it is best not to get on a board like this, ask about the "real" rules of golf, and then scoff when you hear them. Your grievance is with the USGA and the R and A, not with Kevin.

And of course, a tournament committee is able to implement local rules for any competition. The rules are meant to cover issues with the course, conditions, or nature of the event, and are binding on all players in the tournament. That post was simply flat-out strange.

[KevCarter]

PM apologies all the way around. Hopefully everybody is cool. I am.

Kevin

[Sawgrass]

I think the reason this conversation comes up frequently is that it touches on a nerve.

There are three kinds of golfers:

1) Those that always play by the rules
2) Those that are very comfortable altering the rules for whatever reason suits them.
3) Those that really want to play by the rules, but feel they sometimes can't

People in group one and two, God bless them, have no issues. People who occasionally find themselves in group three are not as fortunate.

When playing on a crowded municipal course, the stroke and distance penalty is the only penalty in golf where I feel one has to make a choice between playing by the rules and being socially respectful of others.

Personally, I never want to give myself a "break" by violating a rule. I really, really don't. Fortunately for me, I've learned pretty well when I'm apt to be o.b. or lost, and I hit provisionals if necessary. I rarely find myself in a situation where I've lost a ball and don't have my provisional as an option. (Playing in the fall when there are leaves all around is the typical situation where I may find myself lost with no provisional.)

If I'm at a private club, I'll readily take a hike back to the tee. But at a busy muni or maybe worse, on the first tee at a busy resort course, it just doesn't seem acceptable to go back. Even if, as someone posted earlier, it's very busy and you'd soon catch up to the group in front of you anyway if you did go back, I don't believe that the average starter or the average person in the foursome behind you will find your going back in any way acceptable. That's why, as I stated earlier, I wish the USGA would provide a local rule option that busy courses can apply for the purposes of their typical play.

With the goal of full disclosure here, I'll add that while I don't have the stones to walk back and re-tee in front of angry golfers or starters, on the very rare occasion that someone in front of me comes back to my foursome for the purpose of a stroke and distance penalty I gracefully welcome him or her, watch them hit, and quietly wish that I did have the stones to do the same thing -- and that if I did, I would encounter someone like me when I got back to the tee. Maybe I'd like to hear other people say that they don't mind seeing people walk back to the tee on a busy muni -- it would help skew my view of what is acceptable conduct.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I wish the USGA would take the pressure off me in this situation. I'm not looking for a scoring advantage, just the opportunity to play golf by the rules without offending the people around me.

[KevCarter]

You know what Sawgrass?

Something just dawned on me. It never bothers me to go back, because it happens quickly. I have really bad knees, and always have to ride a cart. Walking back could take an extra 5-10 minutes, and I see why that would make more folks uncomfortable on a busy day...

Kevin

[cb_golfer]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='16 March 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1268762989' post='2319950']
I think the reason this conversation comes up frequently is that it touches on a nerve.

There are three kinds of golfers:

1) Those that always play by the rules
2) Those that are very comfortable altering the rules for whatever reason suits them.
3) Those that really want to play by the rules, but feel they sometimes can't

People in group one and two, God bless them, have no issues. People who occasionally find themselves in group three are not as fortunate.

When playing on a crowded municipal course, the stroke and distance penalty is the only penalty in golf where I feel one has to make a choice between playing by the rules and being socially respectful of others.

Personally, I never want to give myself a "break" by violating a rule. I really, really don't. Fortunately for me, I've learned pretty well when I'm apt to be o.b. or lost, and I hit provisionals if necessary. I rarely find myself in a situation where I've lost a ball and don't have my provisional as an option. (Playing in the fall when there are leaves all around is the typical situation where I may find myself lost with no provisional.)

If I'm at a private club, I'll readily take a hike back to the tee. But at a busy muni or maybe worse, on the first tee at a busy resort course, it just doesn't seem acceptable to go back. Even if, as someone posted earlier, it's very busy and you'd soon catch up to the group in front of you anyway if you did go back, I don't believe that the average starter or the average person in the foursome behind you will find your going back in any way acceptable. That's why, as I stated earlier, I wish the USGA would provide a local rule option that busy courses can apply for the purposes of their typical play.

With the goal of full disclosure here, I'll add that while I don't have the stones to walk back and re-tee in front of angry golfers or starters, on the very rare occasion that someone in front of me comes back to my foursome for the purpose of a stroke and distance penalty I gracefully welcome him or her, watch them hit, and quietly wish that I did have the stones to do the same thing -- and that if I did, I would encounter someone like me when I got back to the tee. Maybe I'd like to hear other people say that they don't mind seeing people walk back to the tee on a busy muni -- it would help skew my view of what is acceptable conduct.

I guess the bottom line for me is that I wish the USGA would take the pressure off me in this situation. I'm not looking for a scoring advantage, just the opportunity to play golf by the rules without offending the people around me.
[/quote]

+1 for being pragmatic!