King Arnie and hats

[OnOff]

[quote name='Nspiel58' date='28 March 2010 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1269810208' post='2346375']
Sawgrass. Your post was interesting and I think shed some light on the slave or servant aspect of the interaction between Arnie and the three pros. It was clear Snedeker was unsure of why he was being asked to wear his hat indoors, as it was odd that they wore their hats during the opening exchange. Being the "King", Arnie decided that he was going to use these guys to illustrate both the necessity of being respectful of the tradition he's trying to maintain at his course, and the importance of honouring his position as its head. But this is golf, not some monarchy. Doesn't the guy get enough accolades already?
[/quote]

You're again missing the point. It has nothing to do with Arnold demanding respect for himself and has everything to do with Arnold demanding respect for the club and it's traditions. Plus he was just trying to give them a little ribbing.

[Nspiel58]

Bay Hill is Arnold Palmer. He sets the agenda. He demands respect. I didn't like what he did. Completely unnecessary since the tradition is already well-known. Petty joke.

[Money03]

[quote name='golfpunk59' date='28 March 2010 - 12:32 PM' timestamp='1269793920' post='2345871']
Do you were your hat inside? I hope not. I assume they are some were inside the bay hill club house and the dress code dictates no hats. You'd get told to take your hat off at my club as well.
[/quote]

I don't know if I were them, but I might wear them.

[OnOff]

[quote name='Nspiel58' date='28 March 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1269812501' post='2346462']
Bay Hill is Arnold Palmer. He sets the agenda. He demands respect. I didn't like what he did. Completely unnecessary since the tradition is already well-known. Petty joke.


[/quote]

I guess you can take anything and skew into a negative light but I'm going to say you're [i]way[/i] off here.

[spilbellman]

Let me ask all of you a question: If you walked into a room from outside and removed your cap or hat, would you be wrong? If you walked into a room from outside and didn't remove your hat or cap, would you be perceived as wrong?

I always prefer the former. It is safer to remove it or walk around the room wondering if the hat or cap should be on your head.

 

You can call me "old-school all you want, but you could never say I would be wrong in this case.

 

Bill

[zoso]

Your inside. Take your hat off. Fools on TV wearing hats. Good for Arnold Palmer.

[Sawgrass]

Let me ask all of you a question: If you walked into a room from outside and removed your cap or hat, would you be wrong? If you walked into a room from outside and didn't remove your hat or cap, would you be perceived as wrong?

I always prefer the former. It is safer to remove it or walk around the room wondering if the hat or cap should be on your head.

 

You can call me "old-school all you want, but you could never say I would be wrong in this case.

 

Bill

 

If the O.P.'s question was about whether or not the group should have worn hats, I'd agree with you that they shouldn't have. But the question was whether it was "wrong" to make an issue on national TV regarding their "offense". I'd have chosen to be kinder to my guests and let it slide. Perhaps you'll agree that being kind to guests is an old-school thing too.

 

The question then becomes which old-school concept should prevail. And why Mr. Palmer chose the concept he chose.

[OneBowTie]

Let me ask all of you a question: If you walked into a room from outside and removed your cap or hat, would you be wrong? If you walked into a room from outside and didn't remove your hat or cap, would you be perceived as wrong?

I always prefer the former. It is safer to remove it or walk around the room wondering if the hat or cap should be on your head.

 

You can call me "old-school all you want, but you could never say I would be wrong in this case.

 

Bill

 

If the O.P.'s question was about whether or not the group should have worn hats, I'd agree with you that they shouldn't have. But the question was whether it was "wrong" to make an issue on national TV regarding their "offense". I'd have chosen to be kinder to my guests and let it slide. Perhaps you'll agree that being kind to guests is an old-school thing too.

 

The question then becomes which old-school concept should prevail. And why Mr. Palmer chose the concept he chose.

 

Sawgrass..... I have always thought your posts were level headed..... but do you honestly think Arnie was simply showing who's who in the golf world to these guys..... or do you think he was simply poking at them for TV..... i tend to think he was merely acting for the benefit of TV to follow as the lead in described him.....Arnie the King

 

I don't think for a second that it was anything other then old school taking a jab at new school..... as I perceived the whole round table as a changing of the guard and its ways..... I guess I am the only one who took the whole show as that...

[kslinksguy]

They were really making a play on the fact that Bayhill, under Palmer's theory to maintain a certain decorum while still being a public course, is famous for not allowing hats to be worn indoors. If you think for a minute they didn't WANT to make a deal of them being asked to remove their hats then you aren't getting the point.

Of course, these guys should, probably do, know the point about not having their hats on, but being asked to on TV was a way of playing out the point for the viewer.

As for wheter it's respectuful or not? Probably wearing your hat indoors isn't any worse than wiping your nose on your sleeve, burping without covering your mouth or saying "excuse me", failing to open a door for a lady, or hitting into the group ahead of you. God forbid somebody try to curb people from doing whatever the heck they want. I guess people should be insulted.

[ryrob]

[quote name='Nspiel58' date='28 March 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1269810208' post='2346375']
Sawgrass. Your post was interesting and I think shed some light on the slave or servant aspect of the interaction between Arnie and the three pros. It was clear Snedeker was unsure of why he was being asked to wear his hat indoors, as it was odd that they wore their hats during the opening exchange. Being the "King", Arnie decided that he was going to use these guys to illustrate both the necessity of being respectful of the tradition he's trying to maintain at his course, [b]and the importance of honouring his position as its head[/b]. But this is golf, not some monarchy. Doesn't the guy get enough accolades already?
[/quote]


Another vote for the OP continuing to misunderstand Arnie's intention. It was a joke, and even if it weren't a joke, it had nothing to do with honoring Arnold Palmer.

[macglock]

[quote name='nvr stsfd' date='28 March 2010 - 11:09 AM' timestamp='1269796151' post='2345951']
I don't have a problem with how he handled it. He even said he saw an opportunity to let them "have it". I think it was all in good fun.
[/quote]
+1

He explained that it was a different scenario but still a local rule, no issue here

[Mainlinegolfer]

Are you guys crazy? This has nothing to do with Arnold Palmer asking for deference as "the King" (although being both 80, the owner of Bay Hill and the tournament host, and a man of some accomplishment, he certainly deserves respect). It has to do with having good manners and a touch of class meaning that gentlemen taking off their hat indoors. This is especially true for someone of Arnold Palmer's generation, but is still true today for gentlemen. Incidentally, Arnold Palmer also asks that hats be taken off when inside at that other course where he has some influence, Pebble Beach GL. Insulted? No way. Snedeker, Mediate and Fowler were thrilled to be asked to sit around with Arnie Palmer, age differences notwithstanding.

There have already been threads about whether one should take off one's hat today and arguing, I suppose, that that they want hide "hat hair", bald spots, promote one's sponsor, or the ever popular that "no one tells me what to do". Nevertheless, show some class, take off your hat when shaking hands with someone and when inside the clubhouse.

[pbcgolfer]

At the course I work at, no hats in pro shop or restaraunt, keep it classy. Golf is losing its class slowly and slwoy to me especially with what others are weraing these days.

[RossGolfer70]

I was raised that you always take your hat off indoors, something I still practice to this day, no matter where I go. Also something that we make our athletes practice in school...especially with some of the crappy looking hats kids wear now.

As far as Arnie, his place and his rules, why is it such a big deal to some? Do what you're asked to do when you're at someone else's place, I just don't see the big deal.

[Bob57]

Certainly was an uncomfortable moment in an otherwise light hearted interview. I don't know what point it served to "teach" the pros a lesson in decorum when in reality it came out making Palmer look like some old crab.. Tell them before the interview to remove their hats per the clubhouse rules--don't make some reality show out of it. Don't forget not all golfers thought Arnold was a great guy---no less than Ben Hogan couldn't stand him..

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='Bob57' date='28 March 2010 - 07:47 PM' timestamp='1269820035' post='2346710']
Certainly was an uncomfortable moment in an otherwise light hearted interview. I don't know what point it served to "teach" the pros a lesson in decorum when in reality it came out making Palmer look like some old crab.. Tell them before the interview to remove their hats per the clubhouse rules--don't make some reality show out of it. Don't forget not all golfers thought Arnold was a great guy---no less than Ben Hogan couldn't stand him..
[/quote]

the irony of your post..... it has been said that Ben may have not been that well liked by his peers......

as far as saying not all golfers thought Arnold was a great guy...... is petty at best..... the most important people obviously thought the world of Arnie..... the fans- his army and the networks and sponsors..... and to this day he is one of thee most if not most popular golfer of all time..... not only with fans, but peers and sponsors.....

[mission_scratch]

I dont get why its such a big deal.. this is not a debate as to if one should have to take off their hat inside or not, rather it appears the OP started this thread because he assumed arnie did it to make the guys look bad. Arnie said there was a sign outside that stated to remove your hats, and Arnie was NOT wearing a hat himself, now had arnie been wearing one and told the 3 to remove theirs, thats would be a different story, since that is not what actually occured, I find this thread was made just to make it look like arnie did something to belittle someone. Which is I think far from reality..

[Guia]

As a kid I was told that it was considered impolite to wear a hat in the house. Where this came from I have no idea, but it was and evidently still is good manners.

[bigred90gt]

He was enforcing the clubhouse rule, I have no problem with that. I personally think, like any other matter, it should have been handled "privately", in the sense that he should have told them BEFORE the cameras started rolling, as soon as he saw that they were wearing the hats. Anything else, and he is trying to use them to set an example, like they are children. These are professional athletes, not children. I have no problem with him telling them to take the hats off, even if the rule was not posted on the door. But, if the rule is based on respect, he should have been more respectful in his enforcement of the rule.

[schlyer]

I've got no problem with the no hat rule, but Arnie shouldn't have done it while they were on the air.

If it was a joke, the first rule of jokes is to make sure they are funny. This was only funny because of Ricky Fowler's reaction.

[J.A.Wise]

Bad manners to wear a hat indoors: Yes
Bad manners to embarrass a guest: Yes

Arnie could have mentioned this before the show and saved everyone the lesson.

This reminds me of the old Houston Oilers coach Bum Phillips who would always wear his cowboy hat at the home games which was played a the Astrodome. One Sunday he got a call from his mother who happened to catch the game on television. She called to tell him she thought she had raised a gentleman, he never wore his hat indoors again.

[parpar41]

A gentleman removes his hat indoors.

Pure and simple.

Nothing looks more daft that a bunch of middle age males having a good meal in a nice restaurant while wearing baseball caps the whole time.

Just not done in proper company.

[cardoustie]

Please guys

The whole thing was VERY clearly staged, it was so blatantly obvious

[Guia]

I don't think it was staged, what would be the reason? Arnie obviously doesn't like several things the new guys do,.....he also mentioned that one of the golfers needs to shave his stubble. I also don't like this unshaved look........either shave or grow a beard, and wear clothes that fit.

[STO]

It was just friendly ribbing.

Fowler turning his hat backwards before removal was just a joke.

Not a big deal.

[fats]

[quote name='Guia' date='28 March 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1269834176' post='2347290']
I don't think it was staged, what would be the reason? Arnie obviously doesn't like several things the new guys do,.....he also mentioned that one of the golfers needs to shave his stubble. I also don't like this unshaved look........either shave or grow a beard, and wear clothes that fit.
[/quote]

Well...I hope the way Arnie handled it made a strong impression on them. Their college days are over and they are playing on the best and most prize money laden golf tour there is...players before them laid the ground work for them to be in this rather lucky position. Time for the lil' sh$t$ to grow up and be grateful.

[bscinstnct]

Take off your hat, ya punks. There may be ladies present.

And don't do it again. A hat is made to protect you from the elements of the great outdoors. When you are
indoors, you take it off.

If you are afraid that you will have a hat head, go to the restroom and fix your hair. Or, just accept the fact
that your hair may look less than perfect.

You can't sit indoors at a nice place with a hat on.

Good for Arnold Palmer.

Message sent. Message taken.

[cheeks]

Removing hats indoors is stupid and antiquated. It is impractical to remove a hat that is specifically made for your head, which serves a purpose when you're outdoors, and which burdens you when you must carry it in your hand when you could be doing carrying something else. I used to take mine off indoors, but after forgetting them and leaving them on the table, etc. when I left I saw no practical reason for doing it anymore.

And when people self-appoint themselves as the arbiter of proper behavior and then pontificate to me directly, I usually tell them how I feel about it. I'm direct but not adversarial. Further, many who get on their high horse have their own shortcomings....my mother in law for instance who gives me a hard time about my hat indoors or how to properly hold my knife and fork but who at the same time talks with her mouth full at the dinner table or rudely interrupts others.

That said, if I were a guest of Arnie's or in a similar situation I would take my hat off if that's what the rules were or what the host prefers, and I would do it before he had remind me. If I don't like the rules, I have the choice of attending or not attending.

Other behaviors of mine when wearing at hat:

- I remove it during the National Anthem.
- I remove it when I am introduced to women or when I meet them. Many times I'll remove it when I'm introduced to other men.
- I remove it when I'm at a memorial, whether inside or outside. I did this on vacation in Washington DC numerous times last summer, and noticed many others who did NOT remove their hats at the Vietnam and Korean War outdoor memorials. However I didn't get on my high horse and jump into their personal space to tell them to remove theirs.
- I remove it at other buildings of my choosing, the Capitol, White House, Ford's Theater, The Alamo, courtrooms, etc.

I remove my hat in certain situations because I *want* to, not because I'm *supposed* to. I do not have a sense of entitlement that validates my right to dictate to others how to behave, nor do I tolerate others who feel entitled to dictate my behavior to me. Especially when it comes to an antiquated tradition that has no set rules, that has all kinds of reasons or interpretations that vary depending on who is appointing themselves as the expert on the matter, and which derives its validity from the argument that it's "customary".

[Señor Rafa]

lol why are some people making such a big deal of this...? Before I watched the video I thought it was going to be a really awkward and cringyworthy moment which I thought would be really weird for the pros... Mr Palmer didn't say it in a nasty or horrible way, he just said it in a fun way being really relaxed about. Mr Palmer didn't tell them to take their caps off to try and act big and mighty, it was probably the clubhouse rule that you couldn't wear hats inside which is just the norm for any golf club so I don't know why people are acting surprised...

forget about them wearing hats, what about the Burberry printed sofa?! I didn't realise Mr Palmer had such 'loud' taste lol.

[petter7]

[quote name='fats' date='28 March 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1269799373' post='2346045']
[quote name='Sawgrass' date='28 March 2010 - 01:31 PM' timestamp='1269797518' post='2345995']
People are odd about traditions. They may have been established years ago based on some reasoning that made sense at the time, but if you're objective about it, the custom might just as easily been you must keep your hat on. Nevertheless, here we are with a "rule" against wearing a hat indoors (as if that hurts anyone).

If any of the three were attempting to show disrespect, then anything Arnie might have said would have been appropriate, but clearly they weren't trying to do anything other than enjoy Arine's presence. Arnie, on camera no less, took the opportunity to "teach them a lesson". Arnie's act was disrespectful to them. He was the host, and another aspect of etiquette is making your guests feel comfortable, which Arnie failed to do my a mile. He was more interested in enforcing his rule, his view of how things should be. Does he have that right? Sure. Was it gracious of him? No.

If you think I'm making too much of this (and I'm sure many traditionalists do) I'll refer you to Arnie's subsequent "joke" about allowing Fowler to keep his hat on if he agrees to cut his hair. Similarly disrespectful. Is Fowler not allowed to wear his hair as he chooses? Another tradition violated?

Further, anyone note the awkward moment in yesterday's golf coverage when Arnie felt a need to criticize J.B. Holmes for not using a razor? Another example of an old guy (of which I am one, I'll add) trying to make sure things don't change. To make things worse, non-clean-shaven Nobilo was sitting there too.

[b]I love Palmer for a lot of other reasons, and I'm willing to ignore this out of appreciation for his finer qualities.
[/quote][/b]

I'm sure Arnie is releived to hear that. ROFL
[/quote]