Strong left hand and weak right hand grip???

[Cobragolf2010]

Do any of you use this grip and have success with it? I would like to hear your experiences with this style of gripping the club. Thanks.

[thenewbie]

Bobby Jones did ok.

[Rockfish]

[quote name='Cobragolf2010' date='01 May 2010 - 08:31 PM' timestamp='1272760312' post='2412551']
Do any of you use this grip and have success with it? I would like to hear your experiences with this style of gripping the club. Thanks.
[/quote]

Here's a test to check. Go as strong as you can with the left hand and then as weak as you can with the right hand and see if you can swing the club.

Then try the opposite. Weaken the left hand as much as possible and strengthen the righd hand as much as possible and try to swing the club.

As with most things the "truth" lies somewhere in the middle

[dso1986]

i use this grip. but it's not like SUPER sTRONG and SUPER weak, basically when my hands dangle my palms tilt inward toward my body and then i bring them together so my right palm groove sits on top the left thumb and thats about how strong and weak the left and right hand is. my problem shot is a 15 yard pulled hook sort of shot. but don't think it's the grip. probably me standing up through impact and flipping

[Dariusz J.]

http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/2010/04/biokinetical-grip-part-1.html

http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/2010/04/biokinetical-grip-part-2.html

Cheers

[putt4_66]

I had not heard of the Biokinetic Golf people before this issue came up a couple of weeks ago and Dariusz J. contributed to that thread.

But, I had a miss that was a flip. As I worked on the range and analyzed why certain things were happening or could happen, I came to the conclusion that by coincidence for me, turns out the be the Biokinetic Golf grip. My upper body stays as a unit better because it's in a more natural position. I can hold my angles better and produce more lag. I can also swing faster because I am not having to hold off anything, I can just fire through.

This grip, with a slightly weaker left hand, is also very helpful when chipping, it helps ensure that the hands stay ahead of the ball.

I'll never use anything else. My ball striking is vastly improved. I have more consistent distances and my dispersion is much, much better.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='putt4_66' date='21 July 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1279727420' post='2590263']
[...] My upper body stays as a unit better because it's in a more natural position. I can hold my angles better and produce more lag. I can also swing faster because I am not having to hold off anything, I can just fire through.

This grip, with a slightly weaker left hand, is also very helpful when chipping, it helps ensure that the hands stay ahead of the ball.

I'll never use anything else. My ball striking is vastly improved. I have more consistent distances and my dispersion is much, much better.
[/quote]

Great to hear it, mate ...BTW, it is a result of nothing more than ordinary merging of Newtonian simple physics with human anatomy. Just as described.

Cheers

[kevn357]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' date='21 July 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1279741092' post='2590751']
[quote name='putt4_66' date='21 July 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1279727420' post='2590263']
[...] My upper body stays as a unit better because it's in a more natural position. I can hold my angles better and produce more lag. I can also swing faster because I am not having to hold off anything, I can just fire through.

This grip, with a slightly weaker left hand, is also very helpful when chipping, it helps ensure that the hands stay ahead of the ball.

I'll never use anything else. My ball striking is vastly improved. I have more consistent distances and my dispersion is much, much better.
[/quote]

Great to hear it, mate ...BTW, it is a result of nothing more than ordinary[b] merging of Newtonian simple physics with human anatomy[/b]. Just as described.

Cheers
[/quote]

Dariusz, i like most of your stuff but the biokinetic grip you show is not remotely close to Hogans grip and has nothing to do with physics or human anatomy.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='kevn357' date='22 July 2010 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1279787624' post='2591996']Dariusz, i like most of your stuff but the biokinetic grip you show is not remotely close to Hogans grip and has nothing to do with physics or human anatomy.
[/quote]

Kevin,

a. my version of the Bio-K grip is as extreme as possible during the photo presentation so the concept is clearer;

b. Hogan used high hands at setup that makes his lead hand look weaker than it really was; it is what fools most of people; do the experiment - grip the club as I suggest and then set your hands high;

c. simple physics - maximizing the leverage angle;

d. anatomy - lead wrist deviation merged with rear wrist flexion.

Is there anything else I can explain ?

Cheers

[kevn357]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' date='22 July 2010 - 05:11 AM' timestamp='1279789889' post='2592003']
[quote name='kevn357' date='22 July 2010 - 10:33 AM' timestamp='1279787624' post='2591996']Dariusz, i like most of your stuff but the biokinetic grip you show is not remotely close to Hogans grip and has nothing to do with physics or human anatomy.
[/quote]

Kevin,

a. my version of the Bio-K grip is as extreme as possible during the photo presentation so the concept is clearer;

b. Hogan used high hands at setup that makes his lead hand look weaker than it really was; it is what fools most of people; do the experiment - grip the club as I suggest and then set your hands high;

c. simple physics - maximizing the leverage angle;

d. anatomy - lead wrist deviation merged with rear wrist flexion.

[b]Is there anything else I can explain ?[/b]

Cheers
[/quote]

Yes. Hopefully we can find an understanding here. I want to make clear that I really respect your ideas on the golf swing. Especially how the lower body works. But I really think your ideas on the grip are 100% wrong.


a. The grip is the most important part of the swing. To change it to prove a concept is silly.
b. High hands or low hands don't matter. The hands must work together. There is no way around it. Your hands are on the club as if they are both hanging at your sides. The grip isn't the size of a tree trunk. You have 0 leverage on the club..
c. This is your biggest flaw. What you call simple physics has nothing to do with physics. Maximizing the wrist angle leaves the proper upper body muscles dormant and unconnected with the lower body.
It's just a lazy way to get the club parallel while relying on the forearms to do all the work. It's false lag and impossible to time or create any power with the big muscles.. This is not anything close to Hogan or any amateur who compresses the ball.
d. No, you already lost it.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='kevn357' date='22 July 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1279796707' post='2592037']
Yes. Hopefully we can find an understanding here. I want to make clear that I really respect your ideas on the golf swing. Especially how the lower body works. But I really think your ideas on the grip are 100% wrong.


a. The grip is the most important part of the swing. To change it to prove a concept is silly.
b. High hands or low hands don't matter. The hands must work together. There is no way around it. Your hands are on the club as if they are both hanging at your sides. The grip isn't the size of a tree trunk. You have 0 leverage on the club..
c. This is your biggest flaw. What you call simple physics has nothing to do with physics. Maximizing the wrist angle leaves the proper upper body muscles dormant and unconnected with the lower body.
It's just a lazy way to get the club parallel while relying on the forearms to do all the work. It's false lag and impossible to time or create any power with the big muscles.. This is not anything close to Hogan or any amateur who compresses the ball.
d. No, you already lost it.
[/quote]


OK, I like good debates with intelligent people. Unfortunately, although I respect your opinion I cannot agree to the majority of arguments you have just presented. Here's my answers:

a. I agree 100% that the grip is one of the very few most important things. Unfortunately, some of grip theory beliefs (such as e.g. "parallel Vs") are simply biomechanically wrong. What I present with the Bio-K grip is the position of both hands on the grip for more anatomically and physically friendly; moreover, Mr.Hogan was the first who put the squeeze on the grip with a weaker RH in relation to his LH - and was damn right, as usually; BTW, I am not interested in what classic golf instruction says and what mistakes it repeats over and over through decades;

b. of course they matter I can show to an observer that my LH grip is weaker or stronger just by changing the height of my grip and without strengthening/weakening moves of my hand; the rule is - the higher the hands are the weaker the LH grip looks to an observer;

c. interesting - can you describe in detail what proper muscles are dormant and why do you think a grip type can have an influence here ? especially for disconnecting with the main body ?
BTW, simple physics is always simple physics - its applications can be sometimes misguided, but it does not change the fact that it is still simple physics.

d. a lazy way ? if it is even the laziest way of helping people to play better golf - I buy it; no power from the big muscles ? well, if someone is not a rotary swinger, even the Bio-K grip won't help;

e. how can I lost it while I am making he vectors of both wrists action closer to parallel ?

Lastly, look at Hogan's lag. People say rubbish about his double joints because cannot repeat his leverage angles. Did he have also "false lag"
Look at his hands, how huge they are and how long fingers he had. Now, look at the bottom view of his grip, how the RH pinky hooks around the mid joint of the LH index finger with its top joint flexed - it suggest how weaker is his RH comparing to his LH; with a "standard parallel V's" grip his pinky should hook by his mid joint at least.

Cheers

[Blue Horn]

[quote name='dso1986' timestamp='1279698807' post='2589784']
i use this grip. but it's not like SUPER sTRONG and SUPER weak, basically when my hands dangle my palms tilt inward toward my body and then i bring them together so my right palm groove sits on top the left thumb and thats about how strong and weak the left and right hand is. my problem shot is a 15 yard pulled hook sort of shot. but don't think it's the grip. probably me standing up through impact and flipping
[/quote]

I had the same exact problem. I changed my grip to be complimentary and my pull was gone. In fact, it actually affected by entire swing, and I am SWINGING the club much better.

Basically, I started developing a pull draw that I could not get rid of even by flattening my clubs, which needed to be flattened and helped. What I noticed was that a few weeks after leaving Texarkana, my right hand started moving to a position more on top. Once I noticed this and moved my right hand back (I have a very strong left hand) to a more underneath or complimentary position, my pull went away and I have been compressing the ball even better.

Slice always says that the single most important part of the swing is the grip. Until this little episode, I did not realize how correct he was.

[tbowles411]

Interesting...I never thought of this...

[Random Hack]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1279703404' post='2589816']
[url="http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/2010/04/biokinetical-grip-part-1.html"]http://biokineticgol...rip-part-1.html[/url]

[url="http://biokineticgolfswing.blogspot.com/2010/04/biokinetical-grip-part-2.html"]http://biokineticgol...rip-part-2.html[/url]

Cheers
[/quote]

My grip is pretty damn similar (identical, really) to the second link - found that too weak of a left hand grip made it a little difficult to create and maintain angle, and too strong of a right hand grip didn't allow me to properly release the club through the ball and turn the club over through impact.

Good to see that somehow my tinkering might've worked in finding something useful

[ConstantineJr79]

Strong left, weak right, very relaxed hands and forearms equaled absolutely tremendous results for me.

[nowitski41]

Very interesting. I just discovered this exact grip position the other day. A couple weeks ago I strengthened my left hand to 2.5 knuckles but kept my right hand way under the grip. I had to flip in order to keep the ball from flaring right. In my study I was practicing my swing and discovered that if I weakened my right hand then it felt automatic to square the club face. I haven't tested it out yet in the range but this article gives me high hopes. Thanks for confirming what I think got I figured out!!

[NoTalentLefty]

I’ve had success with this grip in reverse cause I’m a lefty. Started doing this when I tried the A Swing. Not totally converted to the A but that and more of an inside takeaway and I get a one way miss to the left instead of not knowing which way my misses are going.

[lukerguy]

I'm pretty sure Jon Rahm uses this.

[Ri_Redneck]

I play strong left - neutral right and find it gives me the best consistency. Weak right tends to give me excess fade.

 

BT

[PreppySlapCut]

I'm pretty sure Jon Rahm uses this.

Complete opposite.

[300_yard_drives]

I'm pretty sure Jon Rahm uses this.

rory uses a butterfly grip. Another name for this style of grip.

[hafnia]

Bump an old thread.....

 

I have probably struggled with my grip for a while. (Neutral left - strong right)..... I have lessons off a European tour pro caddy who is a scratch golfer.

 

Despite me being a decent enough ball striker when my faults are being fixed by compensations I have never been consistent and if anything I can look like a single figure player or a 28 handicapper. I struggle with shanks, fats, slices when not playing well.

 

On my first lesson he had me gripping the club correctly.... it felt awful... like I was in a straight jacket. Essentially he wanted my right hand over my left thumb... like it was on top. Every now and then I can do that grip and it feels ok and the ball striking is good.

 

Recently I have struggled with shanks which is enough to make you do a full medical on your golf swing, posture etc etc....

 

I recall telling my coach that in order to get the correct grip I felt like I had to rotate my hands "in" to each other. A bit like wringing out a wet cloth.... he said "Yep go with it".... which I didn't... the grip is a naturally overlooked fundamental cos it's "comfortable".

 

Last night my ball striking using this "left hand more over to the right and right hand more over to the left" feel was producing the best I have experienced.... why????

 

@"Dariusz J." ..... I see you promote this grip type. For me I just feel that my issue with shanks was "rolling the club inside" but was that promoted by a poor "Neutral left and strong right" grip? With this grip i feel inward pressure of the hands which helps keep the forearms connected as a unit....

 

Really really good thread

[stryper]

A couple of weeks ago when Gary Woodland won, I thought I saw something odd about his grip, that his right hand was overly weak and on top of his left. Reading this thread (and the BGST link), it looks like his grip might be similar to what’s being discussed here.

 

Of course I could be wrong and maybe there are other/better examples out there, but Woodland was the one I noticed.

[sjn1]

video is from a while ago , but seems simliar to this idea ?

[Jeroen123]

Ben Hogan advocates this in his "Five lessons". His left hand shows about 3 knuckles and his right hand folds firmly over the left. 

[Tpfol]

I've been playing around with this grip, it's recommended with the swing concept I've been working on. (juju)

I played most of my life with a weak grip and in an effort to pick up some club head speed it was suggested I try a strong grip. Definitely got me to hinge more but with the right hand being more underneath I had a tendency to smother the ball.

This grip seems to be best of both worlds.

 

 

[edwelly]

I have really been struggling as of late and this is what I keep coming back too - it just feels the most consistent and repeatable. I also found this article online which I had no idea Rory had the same grip : https://www.golfdigest.com/story/golf-instruction-truths-the-most-intriguing-grips-in-golf

 

I tell you, I just love this site. So often I feel like I am alone in the tiny things that instinctively feel right to me. Then I find a thread where other people are saying the same thing(s). So nice to know I am not as crazy as I appear to be 🙂

 

-Erik

[Jose c.]

I struggle with an overly weak right hand. When I hold my hands at my side,my palms almost face backwards. This causes a steep shaft and over the top move. Just getting to a neutral right hand is wonderful, but just feels so foreign most of the time.

[ac6]

how are you people finding these threads 

[edwelly]

11 minutes ago, ac6 said:

how are you people finding these threads 

I Googled "golf grip strong left hand, weak right hand" and found this thread.