New Rules in Effect and clarification of Rules *Update 5/16*

[danbailey24]

well said. I agree completely...AND I RARELY DO THAT!!

[Gxgolfer]

[quote name='Augster' date='17 May 2010 - 05:43 PM' timestamp='1274143407' post='2448743']
75 posts is a lot. I need to sell an FT-9. I guess I'll make some posts.

WRX BST is the best on the internet. Bar none. If you put out a low enough price, that item is selling in minutes. MINUTES! Same price on FGI might take you WEEKS to sell after countless bumps.

The BST here at WRX is definitely going to be much more boring and will probably lower site traffic if that is a concern to the mods. I used to have to check BST 6 or 7 times a day to see if anything good was for sale. Since this has gone into effect, I'm down to checking once, maybe twice.

I doubt I'm alone on this.

As said above, if you don't like the add for off-topic items, don't click on the add for off-topic items. Why the entire, elitist "golf-items only"? Some of us do have other hobbies outside of golf, yet there are still only 24 hours in a day.

Lastly, I don't really see the "no-gifting" ban as anything but rediculous. Why does WRX care whether Paypal sucks out their annoying, inflated fees or not? Is Paypal paying WRX?

There is ZERO buyer protection on Paypal when you buy ANYTHING outside of ebay. Gifted or not. Though, you could "gift" for an item, through Paypal using your credit card. At least you'd have your credit card company protection in that case.

Gifted or not, if you are going to get scammed on BST, Paypal is not going to help you out in the least.

Time to make some posts as I have an FT-9 I need to sell. Pronto.
[/quote]

Advertising of "Gifting" is not allowed in an Ad. We follow requests from manufacturers policies so though I do agree with you on 3rd party rules, I do believe we have come to a compromise with the non-advertising policy.

[quote name='danbailey24' date='17 May 2010 - 06:05 PM' timestamp='1274144712' post='2448822']
in my opinion, people who "just visit to sell" DO provide a service to the site and the members. Some of us (me included) mostly visit to buy or trade for different equipment. In my opinion, I appreciate people who "only have stuff to sell", because they often offer me a better deal on equipment than I can get at a retail store.

While they don't participate in discussions, they do still provide something that many of us deem meaningful.
[/quote]

The number was taken from Avgs. The number of post you have surpasses it. I expect a drop in some traffic, we will see who was chaff and who was wheat.

[MarekR]

[quote name='danbailey24' date='17 May 2010 - 09:08 PM' timestamp='1274144931' post='2448831']
could there be a "bug" in the new restrictions? I only ask because I qualify under the new "75" post rule, but still am unable to post a new BST topic. Is there another requirement that I am unaware of? I do not visit often, so there's a good chance that I may have missed something else.

thank you for your help.

Dan
[/quote]


What is happening exactly?
Is it..
a) Not displaying a new topic button
b) Displaying new topic button but giving a error
c) letting you go to the post screen and then error
d) Topic not appearing after apparent posting


Also note, if you post a topic and it gets mod queued, but then you get enough posts after the fact, it will not automatically show up.

[Gxgolfer]

[quote name='danbailey24' date='17 May 2010 - 06:08 PM' timestamp='1274144931' post='2448831']
could there be a "bug" in the new restrictions? I only ask because I qualify under the new "75" post rule, but still am unable to post a new BST topic. Is there another requirement that I am unaware of? I do not visit often, so there's a good chance that I may have missed something else.

thank you for your help.

Dan
[/quote]

What error message do you get? I see an Ad from yesterday.

[stage1350]

If traffic is down, that's not a bad thing. What was the primary complaint from sellers? Your ad was off page 1 in about 45 minutes. Now, you actually have time to get exposure because the whole world isn't joining and immediately selling. You don't get pushed down by a bunch of ads for non-golf items.

This is a good thing.

I'm sorry, but you're really stretching it if you can't get to 75 posts in a month or two. It's not that hard. Read a topic that looks interesting, post your opinion, and enjoy. Traffic will be down only for the people that couldn't care less about this site if they can't make a buck off it. I'm not going to miss them.

I may have to put up some stuff for sale, since it might not get pushed off page 1 by a used Big Wheel and Barbie collection anymore.

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='HeadonaStick' date='17 May 2010 - 07:04 PM' timestamp='1274141086' post='2448628']
[quote name='JDCobra' date='17 May 2010 - 07:23 PM' timestamp='1274138623' post='2448530']
[quote name='Gxgolfer' date='17 May 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1274136006' post='2448435']
That is the most likely scenario and one reason why I was opposed to it. That is why any blames on ownership on this is misguided. This will more than likely negatively impact traffic but this is what the membership is driving in terms of rules. It effects about 30% of last months BST Sellers.
[/quote]


Hopefully more members like yourself will realize this and revoke this counterproductive rule

[quote name='blade_man' date='16 May 2010 - 07:58 PM' timestamp='1274054326' post='2445910']
[quote name='JDCobra' date='15 May 2010 - 11:38 PM' timestamp='1273981113' post='2444277']
i guess you're only running up your post count if you disagree with a rule. If you're in agreement keep posting

well said brother! but you're right they don't care!

when i do i'll let you know, and i'll make sure there is a 200 post rule. just so it protects everyone
[/quote]


You sir are just ignorant, this in the short term will hurt "them" more than anyone else, if all you are trying to do is sell then go to ebay, you can pay the pp fees, listing fees and final value fees. WRX has NO fees whatsoever, NONE! I can sell here cheaper than the bay and come out the same or better, now if you get mad at me because I said you are ignorant you don't know what that means either. Oh, it is wouldn't not would'nt. Just and FYI
[/quote]

another arrogant elitist!
[/quote]

Perhaps you'd like to stop the name calling now. I didn't appreciate in your PMs this afternoon and I'm sure other members don't like it in the public forum. If you have a point make it and respect those who disagree with you.
[/quote]


LOL. I was actually going to tell you to call the person out earlier today, but you've beat me to the punch. We've all made mistakes, but in general, name calling/personal attacks when proving a point doesn't speak well of character.

[OCHack]

Can't we just all get along?

[oregongolf]

[quote name='nongdam' date='17 May 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1274161156' post='2449520']
Can't we just all get along?
[/quote]
Clearly you're not well-versed in the art of troll detection!

Some guys just wanna cause a ruckus or kick and scream when things don't go their way. It's best to ignore it.

[devlin3000]

Hello all,

My few cents on this matter is a follows.

 

First, I am a bit confused by some of the new rules.

I think I would qualify in regards to the posting requirements (75+)

however having read one of your first posts I understood; that to post an item in the 'for sale' there is a requirement of a fee ? is this correct?

or if you meet the minimum post requirements there is no fee to post a 'for sale item'? unless you want the item posted to the top of the page?

Second, if a fee is required to post or freeze your posting to the top of the posts then what you are really saying is, if you want to have a chance to sell your items then pay the $10 dollar fee.

It's not the fee that is the issue it's how you are disguising it.

You should actually create a dealer and a private listings in the for sale forum.

The dealers should in fact be paying you a fee to sell their items, and I agree with that minimum fee, I think we all know who the dealers are here, however lets call it for what it is.

As a private golfer who looses their post after 3 days...(IE: the post goes to page 11)it greatly reduces my chances of selling my items...good thing that I am not to anxious if I don't sell those items since golf for me is a passion and a hobby.

However please clarify do non dealers who meet your 75+ posts, do we have to pay an admission fee to post for sale items? and if yes then you better reconsider your 30 day rule...because that's not too clear either/

 

Third, However the posting rule is a bit more 'grey'.

I have had my first sale on here and I think it went well.

I have also bought several items on here most went well, but I have also been ripped off with bogus items and in accurate descriptions. More so here then on the Bay in % of buys here versus % buys on the Bay.

That is disturbing...especially since the current rules would not protect me, or anyone else from that issue and there is no re-course.

 

Lastly, in regards to your forums. Forums are just that: a conversation about an idea, a subject an opinion expressed, to be warned and have the post removed is called censorship!

To be threatened with ban-shipment because of a response made to a post by another member that was the instigating item/statement is censorship and your marshals should read the complete posts before starting the threats and removing the post.

If fact if you want to maintain those forum rules for the better of the community then your marshals should not get lazy.

They should advise both parties of the violation on the post itself and comment directly on the rule that was broken.

To threaten a member with suspension right away is gestafo! and is censorship!

You are the founding member of this forum and as such you do have a right to control and guide it's moral compass.

I agree with this, however if this is as you say a public forum then you and your co-founders and marshals have to accept difference of opinions within your guidelines. Otherwise you really do not have a democracy do you?

 

My two cents

perhaps you might want to ban/censor this as well.

[stage1350]

Hello all,

My few cents on this matter is a follows.

 

First, I am a bit confused by some of the new rules.

I think I would qualify in regards to the posting requirements (75+)

however having read one of your first posts I understood; that to post an item in the 'for sale' there is a requirement of a fee ? is this correct?

or if you meet the minimum post requirements there is no fee to post a 'for sale item'? unless you want the item posted to the top of the page?

Second, if a fee is required to post or freeze your posting to the top of the posts then what you are really saying is, if you want to have a chance to sell your items then pay the $10 dollar fee.

It's not the fee that is the issue it's how you are disguising it.

You should actually create a dealer and a private listings in the for sale forum.

The dealers should in fact be paying you a fee to sell their items, and I agree with that minimum fee, I think we all know who the dealers are here, however lets call it for what it is.

As a private golfer who looses their post after 3 days...(IE: the post goes to page 11)it greatly reduces my chances of selling my items...good thing that I am not to anxious if I don't sell those items since golf for me is a passion and a hobby.

However please clarify do non dealers who meet your 75+ posts, do we have to pay an admission fee to post for sale items? and if yes then you better reconsider your 30 day rule...because that's not too clear either/

 

Third, However the posting rule is a bit more 'grey'.

I have had my first sale on here and I think it went well.

I have also bought several items on here most went well, but I have also been ripped off with bogus items and in accurate descriptions. More so here then on the Bay in % of buys here versus % buys on the Bay.

That is disturbing...especially since the current rules would not protect me, or anyone else from that issue and there is no re-course.

 

Lastly, in regards to your forums. Forums are just that: a conversation about an idea, a subject an opinion expressed, to be warned and have the post removed is called censorship!

To be threatened with ban-shipment because of a response made to a post by another member that was the instigating item/statement is censorship and your marshals should read the complete posts before starting the threats and removing the post.

If fact if you want to maintain those forum rules for the better of the community then your marshals should not get lazy.

They should advise both parties of the violation on the post itself and comment directly on the rule that was broken.

To threaten a member with suspension right away is gestafo! and is censorship!

You are the founding member of this forum and as such you do have a right to control and guide it's moral compass.

I agree with this, however if this is as you say a public forum then you and your co-founders and marshals have to accept difference of opinions within your guidelines. Otherwise you really do not have a democracy do you?

 

My two cents

perhaps you might want to ban/censor this as well.

 

 

First: No fee for you, unless you want the ad pinned. That always did cost more and will continue to cost more.

 

Second: The reason that the new rules are in place is part of the reason that people are/were paying to pin ads. Why list 10 things when you are going to be driven off page 1 in 45 minutes. Add to that insult the people that aren't even listing golf items. Compound that with the drive-by people that sign up only so that they can sell their clubs and never contribute to the forum. That's not why this site was created.

 

You can still pin your ad, but reading through these posts, a lot of people (myself included) go right past them. So it's up to you to decide whether pinning your ad is cost effective. As for dealers, some are Classifieds Supporters. Others are not. That's up to the Admins to comment on.

 

THIRD: EVERYONE has to do their homework and exercise some common sense. If something looks too good to be true on the Internet, it usually is. If ANYTHING raises a red flag with you, don't do the deal. Personally, nothing annoys me more than the "did I get ripped off?" or "is it fake?" posts after the item is bought. Do you like posting how stupid you are, either because you leaped before looking, or because you bought without doing a rudimentary amount of research? I don't, and can't understand why others do.

 

Don't do a gift deal with anyone that you don't trust. You have zero recourse. The Mods here (DrPino in particular) can help out on normal transactions, but have washed their hands of the gifted ones. Again, exercise common sense. Would you send payment via Western Union? If not, don't send by PayPal gift.

 

LASTLY: This forum may be public, but it's still on a PRIVATE site. The First Amendment got checked at the door when you signed the TOS and agreed to the posting rules. Is it censorship? Absolutely. The same rules that do not allow personal attacks also do not allow the posting of porn (much to my chagrin! ) or obscenities. This is purely at the discretion of the site managers.

 

I habitually tapdance right on the line when it comes to posting. Sometimes, I cross it and I pay the consequences. But you don't hear me b!tching about it either. Using terms like "Nazi" and "Gestapo" (that's how you actually spell it) is bush league and the crutch of those that cannot properly express a valid argument. You are welome to disagree with me, other members, or even the Management. I know that I have countless times. But you need to be able to do so in a respectful manner. I can be 100% in disagreement with you without having to resort to calling you Gestapo. There's a huge difference between calling your opinion stupid and saying that you, as a person, are stupid. The former is allowed, the latter is not.

[ZMO]

Obviously what you don't get is that the BST is here as a convenience for members, not the sole purpose of this site's existance.
<<<<<BUZZ!!!!!! Sorry, wrong answer! It may not be the sole purpose, but sorry, thats what many many people come here for--to sell items, to make a buck! Its like talk radio guy, most people listen and have zero interest in calling the radio show--there's a lot of good folks out there who arent interested sometimes mindless golf banter! "Hey man, did you see my new pom pom headcovers? Soooooooooo sweet!" Bahahahhahahah. Without a BST your site here would dry up and blow away. The idea that the members asked for it is so over the top, so ridiculous as to be an affront to the intelligence of the group. Someone had the idea, a few people jumped on it, and WHAM!!!!!!! A new mandate was created. Out of the "X" number of people who are registered on this site---what % actually cared that people were coming here to sell only, or just to occasionally post? Answer NIL, I repeat NIL!!!! You guys should have done a poll, that at least has some validity to it, otherwise its a fiat decision. Which, of course, you're entitled to--but dotn act as if its coming overwhelmingly from the members. Its not like people asking a true golf question were left hanging out to dry with no one answering said question for days due to the membership only wanting to sell. Sorry, I dont buy the company line here, but whatever.>>

[Djuga06]

Can someone please direct me to where I can understand the "reputation" ranking on this site?

[ZMO]

THAT is why this rule came about. Too many people joining the site, immediately selling, and not participating.

<<And who was complaining about this--the occasional person? You claim that someone posting 75 some how makes them reliable and that's more important than feedback? You've got to be kidding guy, seriously. If a guy is selling a lot of stuff and is solid, why would the rule of 75 posts be made and you ignore his very positive feedback? You have conflicting messages--you claim its for this and or that, you guys cant keep a straight line about why the changes were made. They were so poorly thought out, they've been changed 5 times already!
And guy, before you get all huffy--remember your little tag line-"dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
Or is that just some words you typed out?

[oregongolf]

[quote name='ZMO' date='18 May 2010 - 10:54 AM' timestamp='1274205295' post='2450484']
[size="3"]Obviously what you don't get is that the BST is here as a convenience for members, not the sole purpose of this site's existance.
<<<<<BUZZ!!!!!! Sorry, wrong answer! It may not be the sole purpose, but sorry, thats what many many people come here for--to sell items, to make a buck! Its like talk radio guy, most people listen and have zero interest in calling the radio show--there's a lot of good folks out there who arent interested sometimes mindless golf banter! "Hey man, did you see my new pom pom headcovers? Soooooooooo sweet!" Bahahahhahahah. Without a BST your site here would dry up and blow away. The idea that the members asked for it is so over the top, so ridiculous as to be an affront to the intelligence of the group. Someone had the idea, a few people jumped on it, and WHAM!!!!!!! A new mandate was created. Out of the "X" number of people who are registered on this site---what % actually cared that people were coming here to sell only, or just to occasionally post? Answer NIL, I repeat NIL!!!! You guys should have done a poll, that at least has some validity to it, otherwise its a fiat decision. Which, of course, you're entitled to--but dotn act as if its coming overwhelmingly from the members. Its not like people asking a true golf question were left hanging out to dry with no one answering said question for days due to the membership only wanting to sell. Sorry, I dont buy the company line here, but whatever.>>

[/size]
[/quote]
In essence, there was a poll. There was a three page thread where you could have weighed in with something resembling a rational thought. It's too bad that idea is completely lost on you.

You're speaking of the BST like it's a god-given right to post on a private website for free. There are other avenues for selling if one is only in it to make a buck (it's hard to truly make a buck while peddling golf stuff.. JAT). If you're that bent up by it, wipe the tears from your eyes and go use eBay and craigslist.

Making outrageous claims like the site is going to die and pulling numbers out of your behind like nobody cares that there are zero people who join only to sell is hilarious. You've posted nothing at all factual and managed to come off as deranged. Nice. How long have you been a member here dude?

Count up the number of people in this thread who are sternly against the new rule... you'll see the overwhelming majority conclude it's an acceptable, if not great resolution.

For someone who is basically ranting about transparency, at least be honest with yourself and everyone else. You're pissed because you fall on the wrong side and won't get your way. Buck up, be a little reasonable and try to find it within yourself to post something constructive in forum sections that count towards your post count. If that's not ok... you can find the figurative door and make like a nut and [i]bolt[/i]

[MarekR]

[quote name='Djuga06' date='18 May 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1274205512' post='2450495']
Can someone please direct me to where I can understand the "reputation" ranking on this site?
[/quote]


If your talking about that Reputation box/counter in your profile, it comes from those little + markers next to posts, if you +1 someone, they get a rep point. Yea its not used for anything.

[Djuga06]

Can someone please direct me to where I can understand the "reputation" ranking on this site?

 

 

If your talking about that Reputation box/counter in your profile, it comes from those little + markers next to posts, if you +1 someone, they get a rep point. Yea its not used for anything.

 

 

LOL thanks MarekR....when i first saw it I was like

[Stinger82]

Obviously what you don't get is that the BST is here as a convenience for members, not the sole purpose of this site's existance.

<<<<<BUZZ!!!!!! Sorry, wrong answer! It may not be the sole purpose, but sorry, thats what many many people come here for--to sell items, to make a buck! Its like talk radio guy, most people listen and have zero interest in calling the radio show--there's a lot of good folks out there who arent interested sometimes mindless golf banter! "Hey man, did you see my new pom pom headcovers? Soooooooooo sweet!" Bahahahhahahah. Without a BST your site here would dry up and blow away. The idea that the members asked for it is so over the top, so ridiculous as to be an affront to the intelligence of the group. Someone had the idea, a few people jumped on it, and WHAM!!!!!!! A new mandate was created. Out of the "X" number of people who are registered on this site---what % actually cared that people were coming here to sell only, or just to occasionally post? Answer NIL, I repeat NIL!!!! You guys should have done a poll, that at least has some validity to it, otherwise its a fiat decision. Which, of course, you're entitled to--but dotn act as if its coming overwhelmingly from the members. Its not like people asking a true golf question were left hanging out to dry with no one answering said question for days due to the membership only wanting to sell. Sorry, I dont buy the company line here, but whatever.>>

 

 

 

 

If people are here ONLY to sell things...well then personally I could care less to lose them as a member. If you want to sell but don't want to post then you can pay $5 to list your items for sale. Heck you can even add the $5 into your prices and make your money back. Pretty simple really. Seems like some of you just want something to complain about.

 

I do buy and sell quite a bit on here and I have noticed ALOT less BST ads now. In some respects it sucks but at the same time they really aren't asking much for people to post 75 times or just pay $5.

 

Those of you who don't agree with it are entitled to your opinion but, like it or not, the MAJORITY of members on here do agree with the new rule. As GxGolfer has stated many times, he is against this new rule but due to the majority of members wanting the new rule he agreed to do it.

 

Personally I don't see the argument that people are "contributing" by listing their old clubs that they don't want anymore on here for the rest of us. This site was meant to be a golf forum not GolfBST.com

 

Wait I think I might have an idea there anyone wanna help me start that website?

[devlin3000]

in reply, to the posts and member 'stage 1350'.
In general I would agree with your comments. I am not above censoring myself and what I really think about someone or something. Further I actually enjoy this site and the general civility of it's members.
I what I take issue with is the [u][color="#4169e1"]'slap to the back of the head with the two by four'[/color][/u] threat by the mods.
[i]...when I replied to another poster on a thread... [/i]Perhaps after reading what I said I could agree that it might be mis-interpreted as a political statement...although not intended that way. [i]Duly noted...[/i]

I don't have to like the censorship thought. As someone who fled a country that had no political freedoms and rights, I am a strong advocate for free speech, however much it might 'grind' on me.
Because without freedom of speech and expression one really has no freedoms.

I guess that it is easy to bring your own opinions into a conversation or post quite quickly. Since there is less of a 'social' barrier.
The particular member that I was commenting to, sent me a private post after explaining his situation and feelings to which I understood...although I still did not like the threat of banishment by the mod.
That is for another discussion though.

I have noticed a decrease in web traffic. Which is good and bad... Good if you are trying to sell items...since they will not disappear off the first page within '45 minutes' as commented.
Bad if you are a buyer who's actually looking for deals, legitimate deals that is.
This is a troublesome situation for the owners of the website...you want to curtail the fake items and bogus sellers but you want to keep the legit people, including the low ranking (new) members...how do you do that?

I hope that the owners and the mods monitor this situation and possibly adjust the thresholds so that more members can actually participate without having to pay for something.
I don't know how some one selected 75 posts and that arbitrary number? why 75? why not 60 or 50 or 40?
what does 75 posts tell you about the member?
There are members out there who like to read the posts and do not comment until they have something to say.
Cause in point: me I have been a member since 2007 and yet my activity until 2009 was very low. If I was to join right now I would probably not do so because of the posting rules...it took me sometime to get used to this site and all its rules and etiquette[i]( still finding out about some apparently)[/i]

If I can offer some advise it would be to use the part of the feedback scale much like it is done on other sites.
this places a priority on true and fair dealings...however I am sure that you have heard this prior.

Understand, I do not mind paying $5.00 to pin my add to the top of the page...[color="#ff0000"][b]what I do mind is the decrease in sellers which increases the over all costs of the used equipment.
If that is the intent then ignore everything I have said...[/b][/color]
[b][i]if that is not the intent then the owners have to take a serious hard look at this part of their new rules.[/i][/b]


cheers mates

devlin

[Gxgolfer]

People really need to read these threads before commenting because I have explained this countless times.


1) We recognize that this negatively will effect traffic.
2) These BST rules and what it is today is 100% member driven and monitored.
3) We looked at a 30 day period and this rule effected about 30% or about 300 ads. Of those ads, the avg number of posts was 50.
4) This has been an ongoing issue for months and it was far from a small sampling.
5) No rights were taken away. New rules were enacted and the BST is still free if you follow the rules. If you want a premium level of access, you have avenues to that.
6) I have worked with the community, as we always have, and to imply that it's was half cocked is uninformed.

[oregongolf]

[quote name='Gxgolfer' date='18 May 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1274214582' post='2450926']
People really need to read these threads before commenting because I have explained this countless times.


1) We recognize that this negatively will effect traffic.
2) These BST rules and what it is today is 100% member driven and monitored.
3) We looked at a 30 day period and this rule effected about 30% or about 300 ads. Of those ads, the avg number of posts was 50.
4) This has been an ongoing issue for months and it was far from a small sampling.
5) No rights were taken away. New rules were enacted and the BST is still free if you follow the rules. If you want a premium level of access, you have avenues to that.
6) I have worked with the community, as we always have, and to imply that it's was half cocked is uninformed.
[/quote]

I'd just like to point out (it was mentioned before) that these are the type of threads that need a thread-wiki where it outlines all the main points.

[devlin3000]

Alright I did not imply that it was a half cocked idea.
I am just suggesting that if traffic really drops beyond expectations then it be reviewed as I am sure you will be monitoring
as for these changes being discussed prior...I must of had my head in the 'for sale area forum' ...again just something that I need to keep track of...of course if I knew where to read up on these threads.

cheers

devlin

[golfnut5438]

I guess I should not be surprised by the reaction of some regarding this change in BST rules. After managing employees for 35 years I have seen these reactions more than I can count. The reaction to change, not self imposed change, are very similar to the five stages of grief. And individuals pass through these stages on their own time frame. Those stages are 1) [b]Denial[/b]-"this can't be happening to me." 2) [b]Anger[/b]-"why me?" 3) [b]Bargaining[/b] - attempting to make deals to reverse the change. 4) [b]Depression[/b] - overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration and bitterness. and finally 5) [b]Acceptance[/b] - realization the change is there to stay. It will be interesting to see if all will be able to move through these stages or be stuck w/o finally "accepting" the change. If they can't, I hope they find peace somewhere else.

Mods - thanks again for the modifications to make this site the best it can be!!

[LSeca]

[quote name='Gxgolfer' date='18 May 2010 - 04:29 PM' timestamp='1274214582' post='2450926']
People really need to read these threads before commenting because I have explained this countless times.



2) These BST rules and what it is today is 100% member driven and monitored.

[/quote]


Thank you so much for doing this for the community, and for listening to us. I know the BST takes moderation resources and is a constant subject of debate, would prolly be much easier for you to remove that section all together. It will be impossible to make everyone happy, but I think the majority welcome the new rules.

[devlin3000]

[quote]


You sir are just ignorant, this in the short term will hurt "them" more than anyone else, if all you are trying to do is sell then go to ebay, you can pay the pp fees, listing fees and final value fees. WRX has NO fees whatsoever, NONE! I can sell here cheaper than the bay and come out the same or better, now if you get mad at me because I said you are ignorant you don't know what that means either. Oh, it is wouldn't not would'nt. Just and FYI
[/quote]

...:busted2:well that is no longer true is it? that is about the fees that is.

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='devlin3000' date='18 May 2010 - 10:45 PM' timestamp='1274237137' post='2451992']
[quote]


You sir are just ignorant, this in the short term will hurt "them" more than anyone else, if all you are trying to do is sell then go to ebay, you can pay the pp fees, listing fees and final value fees. WRX has NO fees whatsoever, NONE! I can sell here cheaper than the bay and come out the same or better, now if you get mad at me because I said you are ignorant you don't know what that means either. Oh, it is wouldn't not would'nt. Just and FYI
[/quote]

...:busted2:well that is no longer true is it? that is about the fees that is.
[/quote]
I sell here with absolutely no fees all the time On occasion I will pay a few bucks to have a post pinned; but since that is a special service, and optional, I'd still say the service is totally free, unless you CHOOSE to pay a fee for a special service.

[Gxgolfer]

The BST is still free to buy, sell and trade. In order to place a For sales post, you must have 75 posts or be a ClubWRX member or pay a $5 insertion fee. Its the same concept as basic members vs ClubWRX members. Basic members have 20 MB of storage space and ClubWRX members have significantly more.

[devlin3000]

[quote name='golfnut5438' date='18 May 2010 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1274230660' post='2451603']
I guess I should not be surprised by the reaction of some regarding this change in BST rules. After managing employees for 35 years I have seen these reactions more than I can count. The reaction to change, not self imposed change, are very similar to the five stages of grief. And individuals pass through these stages on their own time frame. Those stages are 1) [b]Denial[/b]-"this can't be happening to me." 2) [b]Anger[/b]-"why me?" 3) [b]Bargaining[/b] - attempting to make deals to reverse the change. 4) [b]Depression[/b] - overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration and bitterness. and finally 5) [b]Acceptance[/b] - realization the change is there to stay. It will be interesting to see if all will be able to move through these stages or be stuck w/o finally "accepting" the change. If they can't, I hope they find peace somewhere else.

Mods - thanks again for the modifications to make this site the best it can be!!
[/quote]

friend, this a golf forum site not a corporation...leave your ramblings at work would you.

pretty soon will you be reciting the 10 steps as well...

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='golfnut5438' date='18 May 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1274230660' post='2451603']
I guess I should not be surprised by the reaction of some regarding this change in BST rules. After managing employees for 35 years I have seen these reactions more than I can count. The reaction to change, not self imposed change, are very similar to the five stages of grief. And individuals pass through these stages on their own time frame. Those stages are 1) [b]Denial[/b]-"this can't be happening to me." 2) [b]Anger[/b]-"why me?" 3) [b]Bargaining[/b] - attempting to make deals to reverse the change. 4) [b]Depression[/b] - overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration and bitterness. and finally 5) [b]Acceptance[/b] - realization the change is there to stay. It will be interesting to see if all will be able to move through these stages or be stuck w/o finally "accepting" the change. If they can't, I hope they find peace somewhere else.

Mods - thanks again for the modifications to make this site the best it can be!!
[/quote]

I actually was thinking the same thing. It was discussed, but it wasn't until it took effect that the negative reactions to the change took place. With any changes, you always have a crowd that will be upset. You can't please everyone...

[Skaffa77]

[quote name='devlin3000' date='18 May 2010 - 10:07 PM' timestamp='1274238430' post='2452048']
[quote name='golfnut5438' date='18 May 2010 - 08:57 PM' timestamp='1274230660' post='2451603']
I guess I should not be surprised by the reaction of some regarding this change in BST rules. After managing employees for 35 years I have seen these reactions more than I can count. The reaction to change, not self imposed change, are very similar to the five stages of grief. And individuals pass through these stages on their own time frame. Those stages are 1) [b]Denial[/b]-"this can't be happening to me." 2) [b]Anger[/b]-"why me?" 3) [b]Bargaining[/b] - attempting to make deals to reverse the change. 4) [b]Depression[/b] - overwhelming feelings of hopelessness, frustration and bitterness. and finally 5) [b]Acceptance[/b] - realization the change is there to stay. It will be interesting to see if all will be able to move through these stages or be stuck w/o finally "accepting" the change. If they can't, I hope they find peace somewhere else.

Mods - thanks again for the modifications to make this site the best it can be!!
[/quote]

friend, this a golf forum site not a corporation...leave your ramblings at work would you.

pretty soon will you be reciting the 10 steps as well...

[/quote]

Personally, I thought his comments captured the situation fairly well. He's tied typical human behavior to the situation at hand (reactions to change that can't be controlled). Regardless of the change (or environment), it would have irritated some group.

I read it as a post of support to the mods/owners/founders for the inevitable crap they endure when implementing change.

[devlin3000]

[quote name='Gxgolfer' date='18 May 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1274237749' post='2452020']
The BST is still free to buy, sell and trade. In order to place a For sales post, you must have 75 posts or be a ClubWRX member or pay a $5 insertion fee. Its the same concept as basic members vs ClubWRX members. Basic members have 20 MB of storage space and ClubWRX members have significantly more.
[/quote]

if this is the case, then why change?...I mean hit me with the brick here...
because now it really sounds like it is about controlling bandwidth or better yet [i][b]maintaining value of sale items for dealers...by controlling new members...not to reduce potential fraud.[/b][/i]


it's no wonder the charter members like this rule...because charter members are high volume sellers or dealers and they stand to make more profit if there is less competition for sales.
After all what re-course does the website and your charter members provide for someone who has been taken advantage in a sales transaction?
You have stated that you have limited liability and it's basically buyer beware...so what is the reason for the change then?

You have said it yourself that this rule will reduce traffic , further if you wanted to create a real statistical number you would use more then 30 days of data.
You would not just use a month where selling would naturally be up due to spring or prior to golf season beginning for most of us.

I enjoy this site but lets call it for what it really is...
I still love reading the posts both educational and the gripes...
Although I might not buy anything else from the site