simple rule that people get wrong...

[adambommb29]

witnessed in a tournament

So this past weekend I played in an individual stroke play event that is run by the county. It is open to anyone with a handicap and you are sectioned off accordingly. I am a 6 hdcp and I am actually in the better division.

On the 16th hole one of the guys hit his ball in a water hazard that was short and to the right of the green. After walking arond the water for a couple of minutes like he might find his ball, even though it landed smack in the middle of the pond, he finally decided to take his drop. He stated that he was going to drop the ball further back on the line that it entered. I called him out and said that he couldn't do that. This seems to be one of the rules that people seem to get wrong all the time. I'm sure most people on this site know the rule so I am not going to go over all of his options, but I did let him know that he could draw a line from the flag to the point in which it entered and he could drop on that line as far back as he wanted. He tells me I'm wrong. I told him that I wasn't. He continued to disagree. The other guys weren't in the vacinity to give a ruling so I encouraged him to play two balls and then we could ask the officials when we got back to the club house. He agreed. While he is playing his two balls the other two guys in my group made their way to the green. I told them what had just happened and one guy said that I was right and the other said I was wrong. Can you believe that? This is a tournament, in a division where you need to have a 7 hdcp or better to play, and two guys in my group don't know a simple rule. Of course I was correct and this guy actually made a worse score with the proper ball. So maybe there was some justice. I also beat his which made feel good as well.

[Borbor]

Hazard's a red stake I assume to have such a debate.

[muxi87]

yeah, it's an often misinterpreted rule...see it all the time

[adambommb29]

Yes, a red stake water hazard.

[PlatinumNike]

OP

I'm not seeing the difference in what he wanted to do and what the right thing you told him to do. Don't hurt me

[atlanta golfer]

OP is pointing out that many people want to take a drop back along line of flight into the hazard, when the proper way to do it is to take the drop in a straight line back from point of entry, keeping the point of entry and the pin position in line.

Following line of flight back, which is wrong, will usually get you a nice fairway lie. But doing it the correct way, depending on how the hole is laid out, will usually put you into the rough. otoh every now and then, on a dogleg, depending on the layout, this can help you. the point is, to know the rule.

(of course, as pointed out above, you can also take two club lengths not nearer the hole, take stroke and distance, and in the case of lateral water hazard, go to the opposite side of the hazard).

[PlatinumNike]

Gracias

[mgranato]

When taking a drop, I've seen a lot of folks "estimate" their driver length being about 96" long.

[putt4_66]

Yea, it's amazing what good golfers don't know about the rules. My GHIN is 4.x and my regular golfing buddies, plus occasional golfing friends, are 9 to 14 handicaps. They are always asking me what to do when they encounter hazards, lost balls, unplayable lies, cart paths, etc.
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I made a post in a different thread yesterday about a tournament I recently played where two different guys wanted to call a penalty on me because they thought they knew the rules and didn't. One was a bogey golfer, but the other was low single digit. FWIW, it was Rule 7-2, Practice during a round.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='adambommb29' date='19 May 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1274295084' post='2453421']
...Can you believe that? This is a tournament, in a division where you need to have a 7 hdcp or better to play, and two guys in my group don't know a simple rule.
[/quote]

No shortage of people who don't know the rules yet are quite happy to insist their wrong interpretation is correct. "Line of flight..." I see that all the time.


[quote name='Borbor' date='19 May 2010 - 11:56 AM' timestamp='1274295367' post='2453426']
Hazard's a red stake I assume to have such a debate.
[/quote]

Doesn't matter. Dropping in the suggested manner is valid for water hazard or lateral water hazard.

[atlanta golfer]

[quote name='putt4_66' date='19 May 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1274299012' post='2453536']
Yea, it's amazing what good golfers don't know about the rules. My GHIN is 4.x and my regular golfing buddies, plus occasional golfing friends, are 9 to 14 handicaps. They are always asking me what to do when they encounter hazards, lost balls, unplayable lies, cart paths, etc.
[size="3"][size="2"]
[/size][/size]
I made a post in a different thread yesterday about a tournament I recently played where two different guys wanted to call a penalty on me because they thought they knew the rules and didn't. One was a bogey golfer, but the other was low single digit. FWIW, it was Rule 7-2, Practice during a round.
[/quote]

I had a similar situation - I was playing a tournament last year in B flight, and a couple of A flight players tried to tell me I couldn't chip or putt on the last hole completed green, after all of us were in the hole. We were waiting on people in front of us, no one behind us, and I wanted to practice a short chip that I had not done very well. I even showed them my rule book and they still didn't believe it.

[HackerD]

I've run into this same confusion with some of the guys I play with.

P.S. atlanta, two club lengths from point of entry no nearer the hole is only allowed for lateral hazard.

[atlanta golfer]

[quote name='HackerD ' date='20 May 2010 - 12:01 AM' timestamp='1274328112' post='2454827']
I've run into this same confusion with some of the guys I play with.

P.S. atlanta, two club lengths from point of entry no nearer the hole is only allowed for lateral hazard.
[/quote]


You are correct. Sorry for creating any confusion on this.

[Mainlinegolfer]

Perhaps on a related note, I see lots of golfers hit to the green over water (often on a par 3) and, although the ball carries the water, it hits the bank in front of the green (or even the green) and rolls back into the water. The player then wants to take a drop from the point where the ball rolled into the water; obviously close to the green. However, the rule is:

[indent]b. Drop a ball [b]behind the water hazard[/b], keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or[/indent]

[putt4_66]

[quote name='Mainlinegolfer' date='20 May 2010 - 07:05 AM' timestamp='1274357108' post='2455184']
Perhaps on a related note, I see lots of golfers hit to the green over water (often on a par 3) and, although the ball carries the water, it hits the bank in front of the green (or even the green) and rolls back into the water. The player then wants to take a drop from the point where the ball rolled into the water; obviously close to the green. However, the rule is:

[indent]b. Drop a ball [b]behind the water hazard[/b], keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or[/indent]
[/quote]




You are right, of course, as long as the water hazard is just that, a water hazard that is marked with yellow lines or stakes, or defined that way by the committee. My home course has lots of water. We have a number of greens where you can land on the green or fringe and roll back into water. We also have two island greens. However, ever single bit of water on our course is marked as a lateral water hazard, marked with red stakes and lines. So, obviously, at my course, as long as the ball landed above the red line, we can drop a ball up by the green, no closer to the hole.

I've seen that a lot. Courses that rarely, or never have water hazards (yellow), but instead of all lateral water hazards (red.) I think it is an option used to help speed up play.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

[quote name='atlanta golfer' date='19 May 2010 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1274313331' post='2454065']
[quote name='putt4_66' date='19 May 2010 - 03:56 PM' timestamp='1274299012' post='2453536']
Yea, it's amazing what good golfers don't know about the rules. My GHIN is 4.x and my regular golfing buddies, plus occasional golfing friends, are 9 to 14 handicaps. They are always asking me what to do when they encounter hazards, lost balls, unplayable lies, cart paths, etc.

I made a post in a different thread yesterday about a tournament I recently played where two different guys wanted to call a penalty on me because they thought they knew the rules and didn't. One was a bogey golfer, but the other was low single digit. FWIW, it was Rule 7-2, Practice during a round.
[/quote]

I had a similar situation - I was playing a tournament last year in B flight, and a couple of A flight players tried to tell me I couldn't chip or putt on the last hole completed green, after all of us were in the hole. We were waiting on people in front of us, no one behind us, and I wanted to practice a short chip that I had not done very well. I even showed them my rule book and they still didn't believe it.
[/quote]

A interesting one here. I wrongly called this on someone in a tournament a few years back and thought I was 1000 percent correct. Even when we went to the book I was surprised.

I think what threw me and probably everyone else with this is that the rule states the tournament committee may establish tournament rule that prohibits this, and that is what the PGA Tour has done. So since it was illegal on the PGA Tour, I wrongly thought it was illegal everywhere.

[Sawgrass]

If a greenside water hazard is marked in red (lateral), and a PGA Tour player's ball hits beyond the hazard line and then rolls back in, he is permitted to drop right next to the green if he can find a place within two club lengths of the spot where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard which is not nearer the hole. Otherwise he must select another relief option.

If the above hazard is marked in yellow, he must not drop on the green side of the hazard.

I don't believe that the Tour plays this any differently than the normal rules of golf demand. I believe that the confusion lies in the fact that whether yellow or red stakes are used is often seemingly random when a water hazard is close to a green.

[atlanta golfer]

[quote name='Sawgrass' date='21 May 2010 - 01:47 AM' timestamp='1274420844' post='2457284']
If a greenside water hazard is marked in red (lateral), and a PGA Tour player's ball hits beyond the hazard line and then rolls back in, he is permitted to drop right next to the green if he can find a place within two club lengths of the spot where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard which is not nearer the hole. Otherwise he must select another relief option.

If the above hazard is marked in yellow, he must not drop on the green side of the hazard.

I don't believe that the Tour plays this any differently than the normal rules of golf demand. I believe that the confusion lies in the fact that whether yellow or red stakes are used is often seemingly random when a water hazard is close to a green.
[/quote]

The reference to a different rule for the pga tour was directed at the "practicing chipping and putting on last green played" comment....... you are correct, water hazards and lateral hazards are played exactly per the rule book on the pga tour.