What Did Hogan Mean? 3 Right Hands?

[Sean2]

What did Ben Hogan mean when he said he wished he had three right hands?

[Will Par]

With the swing he developed he was able to swing into the ball as hard as he could with his right hand and still not hook the ball. If he had three right hands, he would have been able to swing three times as hard and get three times the power. He was really just making the point that he had found a solution to his hook and now he could swing as hard as he wanted without any fear of hooking the ball.

[downtoscratch]

Three right SIDES would have been more to the point, IMO. The use of the 'three right hands' analogy likely stems from the extension of the idea of handedness. You are a right handed golfer or a left handed golfer but beyond this simple designation the notion of 'hands' is misplaced even if it's Hogan who says it, again IMO. Everything else Hogan discusses with regard to both power and control in 5 Lessons is noticeably lacking in any mention of the 'hands'. This is no oversight.

[dap]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1283723633' post='2680577']
What did Ben Hogan mean when he said he wished he had three right hands?
[/quote]
Hogan hit the ball as hard with his left hand as he did with his right.

He was talking about how the supinating move with the left hand made it impossible for the right hand to overpower the left and twist the club over.He felt by supinating he could swing and hit as hard as he liked without fearing a hook.

The comment about three right hands was just to emphasize this point.

[Sean2]

I tried to hit the ball with my right hand at the range and hooked it quite nicely. I wonder if it's a timing thing?

[downtoscratch]

Hands grip the club. They don't swing and they don't hit. Supination is what is caused to happen at the wrist joint. Focus on 'hands' at your own peril. Just my learned opinion.

[supercharger]

The hands do square up the club face along with the whole left arm inducing a solid transfer of energy. Right side dominates going right and left side dominates going left. One has to rotate the left hand as fast and hard as they can to produce a dead straight shot on the wall he has set for himself. The pivot has to be right and allowed to lead the whole rotation with weight over left heel or one will hook or not fully release trying to just square up the face to produce the shot intended. No one can say what hogan meant because he is not here to clarify. The right hand and arm only release energy as it seperates itself from the hips as they keep rotating and the right arm is thrown off the body to release the energy in a linear fashion just to the right of target line.

[dap]

We could speculate all day on what we think Hogan meant or did which is fine but what I posted was straight from 5L.

It was to do with Hogan's supinating move.He felt he could have three right hands and it would still not overpower the left and twist the club over.

It seems people think he was talking about his right hand producing power but he was referring to the left hand.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1283924879' post='2684811']
We could speculate all day on what we think Hogan meant or did which is fine but what I posted was straight from 5L.

It was to do with Hogan's supinating move.He felt he could have three right hands and it would still not overpower the left and twist the club over.

It seems people think he was talking about his right hand producing power but he was referring to the left hand.
[/quote]

We have to also remember that we can use right hand two different ways: We can flip the club head with that or we can push grip with that. And the last one effects against flipping motion.

[downtoscratch]

Supinating move............ it's not an entity unto itself. It's a result of the entirety of Hogan's swing motion. It's 'caused' to happen as a result of other key factors.... not a move in any contrived sense that needs to be consciously dealt with.
It's a do this / get that proposition. Thinking hands is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Yes, you got it straight from 5L. How you, me or anyone else 'interprets' 5L is key to what we take away from that great book. Pity the one who takes this 'hands' reference too literally.

[Sean2]

So then is the swing "simply" comprised of a purposeful pivot action with the arms, wrists, and hands just going along for the ride?

Is anything required of the hands?

[Will Par]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1283951210' post='2685062']
So then is the swing "simply" comprised of a purposeful pivot action with the arms, wrists, and hands just going along for the ride?

Is anything required of the hands?
[/quote]


That is correct (for the downswing). In a full shot the hands just go for the ride and the wrists hinge (release) through impact. There is no active "manipulation" of the hands on the downswing other than just holding on to the club.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Will Par' timestamp='1283952169' post='2685086']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1283951210' post='2685062']
So then is the swing "simply" comprised of a purposeful pivot action with the arms, wrists, and hands just going along for the ride?

Is anything required of the hands?
[/quote]


That is correct (for the downswing). In a full shot the hands just go for the ride and the wrists hinge (release) through impact. There is no active "manipulation" of the hands on the downswing other than just holding on to the club.
[/quote]
If that's the case, then maybe that's why so many of us get confused because it is called a golf SWING. When I think of the word "swing", and perhaps others do to, I think of active participation of the arms.

Any further clarification on this point would be great, i.e., allowing the arms, hands, and club go along for the ride.

I've read other theories, e.g., de la Torre, that specify that the arms should lead the swing. Frankly, it gets a bit confusing.

[moehogan]

We could speculate all day on what we think Hogan meant or did which is fine but what I posted was straight from 5L.

 

It was to do with Hogan's supinating move.He felt he could have three right hands and it would still not overpower the left and twist the club over.

 

It seems people think he was talking about his right hand producing power but he was referring to the left hand.

We have to also remember that we can use right hand two different ways: We can flip the club head with that or we can push grip with that. And the last one effects against flipping motion.

 

Just a few thoughts ...

 

IMOP, the supination thing is often misunderstood. Mr. Hogan appeared to have had MORE left forearm rotation post impact early in his career than later. It seems he eventually found a way to put a governor on it to eliminate the timing-dependent, cross-over release that sometimes produced a hook or pull hook. Left wrist throw to produce enough left forearm rotation to square the club face and STOP ... then the right side poured it on at the bottom. Swinger with a hitter's move at the bottom maybe?

 

Most vids of Mr. Hogan as the one below show no left hand supination (left palm to the sky) between impact and swivel. There is some palmar flexion in the left wrist.

 

How do you think Mr. Hogan maintained the amount of dorsi flexion in his right wrist post impact? How does he pressure the handle?He seems to have done this better than anyone.

 

Moe

[psd]

Consistently not achieving a flat left wrist / square clubface at impact is still one of my worst swing faults. And for the life of me I cannot self-correct. I've been told to "show off my (left) wrist watch's face", "turn my hands over", and "release the club" over and over.

I have an impact bag and work the Impact Zone drills. But I always have trouble repeating it on the course, especially with driver, which is a disaster.

Any presets, set up positions, or drills recommended? When I begin the downswing with the hips I typically fan the club face open and strike the ball with a glancing blow. 215 yards of carry and 50 yards right of target with driver is the result.

I'm sick of hitting 4-metal off the tee.

[Matt1960]

[quote name='psd' timestamp='1283963113' post='2685366']
Consistently not achieving a flat left wrist / square clubface at impact is still one of my worst swing faults. And for the life of me I cannot self-correct. I've been told to "show off my (left) wrist watch's face", "turn my hands over", and "release the club" over and over.

I have an impact bag and work the Impact Zone drills. But I always have trouble repeating it on the course, especially with driver, which is a disaster.

Any presets, set up positions, or drills recommended? When I begin the downswing with the hips I typically fan the club face open and strike the ball with a glancing blow. 215 yards of carry and 50 yards right of target with driver is the result.

I'm sick of hitting 4-metal off the tee.
[/quote]

IMO, you need to forget about the hands and the release for a while and concentrate on body motion and arm position.
Questions to ask of your swing are.
Do your arms get behind the body on backswing and downswing?
Do you transition with the lower body?
Does your upper body move too forward in the downswing?
Does your body rotation stall before or during impact?

But these are only questions that you can ask of your swing with video or with someone elses eyes.

[cubanstogie]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1283953440' post='2685108']
[quote name='Will Par' timestamp='1283952169' post='2685086']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1283951210' post='2685062']
So then is the swing "simply" comprised of a purposeful pivot action with the arms, wrists, and hands just going along for the ride?

Is anything required of the hands?
[/quote]


That is correct (for the downswing). In a full shot the hands just go for the ride and the wrists hinge (release) through impact. There is no active "manipulation" of the hands on the downswing other than just holding on to the club.
[/quote]
If that's the case, then maybe that's why so many of us get confused because it is called a golf SWING. When I think of the word "swing", and perhaps others do to, I think of active participation of the arms.

Any further clarification on this point would be great, i.e., allowing the arms, hands, and club go along for the ride.

I've read other theories, e.g., de la Torre, that specify that the arms should lead the swing. Frankly, it gets a bit confusing.
[/quote]

Swing is a little misleading, I agree. To me its not the swing at a park but more like the swinging of a door. Along with that though the forearms must rotate along with that "door" to keep the face square. I don't really try to understand what he meant by 3 right hands because the right and left must rotate together or you have a block or hook. Listening to pros or the golf channel tips can actually be detrimental. Its hard to interpret what they mean sometimes. I just got rid of a hook by actually turning my left hand more, I was turning right hand over which was more of flip. The left has to turn with it, I kept hearing how the right hand arm must come over left and didn't keep turning my left. So for me the hands do go along for ride but have to turn with body rotation or you get the flip.

[AlexCzervic]

What did Ben Hogan mean when he said he wished he had three right hands?

 

 

He wanted more power. With his 'secret' he wouldn't overpower the left and hit a smoking hook. The hands are clamps and the forearms articulate the hands through the wrists. He could have said that he wanted a really big right forearm. Below is a gentleman with 3 right hands and only 1 left hand. This guy was also a thrower.

 

[jak_bot]

What did Ben Hogan mean when he said he wished he had three right hands?

 

 

He wanted more power. With his 'secret' he wouldn't overpower the left and hit a smoking hook. The hands are clamps and the forearms articulate the hands through the wrists. He could have said that he wanted a really big right forearm. Below is a gentleman with 3 right hands and only 1 left hand. This guy was also a thrower.

 

 

 

 

Who is this guy? Is he a random dude or someone well known?

 

 

 

[moehogan]

What did Ben Hogan mean when he said he wished he had three right hands?

 

 

He wanted more power. With his 'secret' he wouldn't overpower the left and hit a smoking hook. The hands are clamps and the forearms articulate the hands through the wrists. He could have said that he wanted a really big right forearm. Below is a gentleman with 3 right hands and only 1 left hand. This guy was also a thrower.

 

 

 

 

Who is this guy? Is he a random dude or someone well known?

 

 

 

 

Mike Austin

[Diz]

Austin had some pipes, always wonder if they chated....

[bscinstnct]

I assume it is because at impact, he felt his right hand [b]beating the living cr@p[/b] out of the ball.

But, obviously, you don't hit a ball with your hands.

But it seems to be a very good clue about what he felt, the key being why?

I would think that his right hand released so hard into the ball that it was a major nice feeling.

I can only speculate but such power would probably come from an extremely late straightening of the right arm resulting from a mind bogglingy efficient, lag holding, perfectly timed pivot.

[Sean2]

For someone as talented as Hogan he could get away with "timing", if in fact that is what he was doing. For the rest of us mortals?

I have tried hitting the ball with my right hand. When the timing is correct the results are great, but if the timing is just a bit off smothered hooks are the result.

[SwingNV]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1284364319' post='2693633']
For someone as talented as Hogan he could get away with "timing", if in fact that is what he was doing. For the rest of us mortals?

I have tried hitting the ball with my right hand. When the timing is correct the results are great, but if the timing is just a bit off smothered hooks are the result.
[/quote]


Sean,

I think you are confusing 2 things. You are thinking that you square the face with the right hand because Hogan said he wished he had 3 right hands at impact. This is incorrect. He clearly states in 5 lessons that you must square the face with the left hand. He goes as far as to say that many players try and square it with the right- which is a mistake in his opinion. The reason he wished he had three right hands at impact is shown in the Coleman beach video. He explains that the pressure in the right hand is felt at the base of the index finger and he trys to "push" with that pressure point continuously through impact. He says the pressure is not down or around, just through.

If you haven't watched the Coleman video, it is an abosolute must view. Hogan gives away alot of his insight into his swing.

[Duke of Hazards]

[quote name='SwingNV' timestamp='1284389115' post='2693915']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1284364319' post='2693633']
For someone as talented as Hogan he could get away with "timing", if in fact that is what he was doing. For the rest of us mortals?

I have tried hitting the ball with my right hand. When the timing is correct the results are great, but if the timing is just a bit off smothered hooks are the result.
[/quote]


Sean,

I think you are confusing 2 things. You are thinking that you square the face with the right hand because Hogan said he wished he had 3 right hands at impact. This is incorrect. He clearly states in 5 lessons that you must square the face with the left hand. He goes as far as to say that many players try and square it with the right- which is a mistake in his opinion. The reason he wished he had three right hands at impact is shown in the Coleman beach video. [b]He explains that the pressure in the right hand is felt at the base of the index finger and he trys to "push" with that pressure point continuously through impact. He says the pressure is not down or around, just through.
[/b]
If you haven't watched the Coleman video, it is an abosolute must view. Hogan gives away alot of his insight into his swing.
[/quote]

I agree w/ this 100%. The right hand's involvement as a power source ('3 right hands') is pre-set at address with Hogan's weak right hand 'on top' of the club (right index finger pushing/exerting pressure to the left and slightly down) and waggling the right elbow in front of the right hip with the left hand. In conjunction with the right upper arm staying snug to the body on backswing, there is pressure built up into the right arm and hand on the backswing that is released automatically (hips are still the main motor) as BONUS power, if you will, as the hands come into impact and release thru. Again, it involves Hogan's setup and much more importantly, feeling the proper setup with the pre-shot waggle (feel the pressure points in the right index finger and the right upper arm / elbow-hip connection). Hogan's not blowing smoke when he goes into detail about the grip and waggle, they are extremely important.

[Sean2]

I did misunderstand. No wonder I was hitting low hooks. I'll have to try this pushing with the pressure point of the right index finger at the range tomorrow and see what happens. I'll also look at the Coleman Beach video.

I appreciate the replies!

[JOEGOLFWRX]

he meant the position of the left wrist bone at impact can be used as a checkpoint to stop a whole load of bad stuff including hooks on hard swings.

faldo has a similar quote, only he said it was only when he was on ...lol.

[frozenfox]

[quote name='psd' timestamp='1283963113' post='2685366']
Consistently not achieving a flat left wrist / square clubface at impact is still one of my worst swing faults. And for the life of me I cannot self-correct. I've been told to "show off my (left) wrist watch's face", "turn my hands over", and "release the club" over and over.

I have an impact bag and work the Impact Zone drills. But I always have trouble repeating it on the course, especially with driver, which is a disaster.

Any presets, set up positions, or drills recommended? When I begin the downswing with the hips I typically fan the club face open and strike the ball with a glancing blow. 215 yards of carry and 50 yards right of target with driver is the result.

I'm sick of hitting 4-metal off the tee.
[/quote]

[frozenfox]

[quote name='frozenfox' timestamp='1285036274' post='2706401']
[quote name='psd' timestamp='1283963113' post='2685366']
Consistently not achieving a flat left wrist / square clubface at impact is still one of my worst swing faults. And for the life of me I cannot self-correct. I've been told to "show off my (left) wrist watch's face", "turn my hands over", and "release the club" over and over.

I have an impact bag and work the Impact Zone drills. But I always have trouble repeating it on the course, especially with driver, which is a disaster.

Any presets, set up positions, or drills recommended? When I begin the downswing with the hips I typically fan the club face open and strike the ball with a glancing blow. 215 yards of carry and 50 yards right of target with driver is the result.

I'm sick of hitting 4-metal off the tee.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[JD3]

I think it's comparable to what TGM calls "extensor" action. The impact image he showed with the arched left wrist and bowed right supports this. A "throwing" motion would look the opposite, imo.