Bertrand verses Sevam 1

[millerman]

After reading about the theory Hogans Angle it interests me that it caused a lot of comment. And by the way some great advice. I actually found this site as I am injured at the mo and by U tube arrived here. Its the above two guys that I would like some help on. Both seem to have an opinion on Hogans way, which one is nearest to cracking the code.

 

Regards

 

Millerman

[farmer]

I don't know the Bertrand guy, but Sevam has a bunch of videos around. I watched them and thought they had a lot of good stuff. There's a member on here (I think) who goes by Texsport who has some first hand info on Sevam, so maybe you will get a bump from him. My only issue (damn you, Tex) was I spent days hunched over a monitor.

[LYG]

Both are great..and I have added comments on Chris as well.

Tom Bertrand was an assistant teacher for John Schlee... Schlee was a tour player (2nd to Johnny Miller in 1973 US Open)...and he was only two people Ben Hogan taught at length...and Gardner Dickenson. Tom has a published book and videos, DVD's.

Sevan learned from people who learned from Moe Norman...like Bertrand, greatnesses handed down. He has an awesome swing, which he shows on videos here. Great hands forward through the ball and dynamic weight move, ie hips/shoulders.

Chris (long hair, ponytail) is a guy in Spain with a GREAT swing...not sure if he is a professional teacher or not.

I've played golf 45 years -- I believe that you get influences from many people over the years. Be great if one book or teacher could 100% help you reach your goals and dreams -- but it does not work that way.

Good luck, Lawson (Atlanta)

[eightiron]

you gotta just roll your eyes reading this drivel

[millerman]

Eight Iron thats a fine answer but how about backing it up with something to back your reply. I am new here so have no idea what that retort meant.

Cheers

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='millerman' timestamp='1288993546' post='2776517']
Eight Iron thats a fine answer but how about backing it up with something to back your reply. I am new here so have no idea what that retort meant.

Cheers
[/quote]

Ohhh...it meant nothing. Just with putting someone else with negative light while being unable to express something constructive. Typical for many fora.

Cheers

[jak_bot]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1288994336' post='2776538']
[quote name='millerman' timestamp='1288993546' post='2776517']
Eight Iron thats a fine answer but how about backing it up with something to back your reply. I am new here so have no idea what that retort meant.

Cheers
[/quote]

Ohhh...it meant nothing. Just masturbating with putting someone else with negative light while being unable to express something constructive. Typical for many fora.

Cheers
[/quote]

Dariusz,

I think your message might have gotten lost in translation. Not sure what you're trying to say here.

[Dariusz J.]

[quote name='jak_bot' timestamp='1288996350' post='2776577'][/quote]

Sure, this is not my native language. Try to translate it better: I wanted to describe a person who never helped anyone and concentrated his very poor efforts to diminish everything he was not able to grasp or develop. 100% of his posts were negative attitude posts, like in this case.

Want to hear more ? I do not want to deal with it any more. Enough !

Cheers

[jak_bot]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1288996974' post='2776587']
[quote name='jak_bot' timestamp='1288996350' post='2776577'][/quote]

Sure, this is not my native language. Try to translate it better: I wanted to describe a person who never helped anyone and concentrated his very poor efforts to diminish everything he was not able to grasp or develop. 100% of his posts were negative attitude posts, like in this case.

Want to hear more ? I do not want to deal with it any more. Enough !

Cheers
[/quote]

That's better, I guess you did not realize what you said in your first attempt, lol. It was quite funny.

[Dariusz J.]

Goodbye.

[LYG]

Ever heard of "accentuate the positive?"

Tends to be well accepted by most reasonable people.

[millerman]

Thanks LY and Farmer for some constructive answers, guess this maybe not the questions to ask on this thread. very weird replys from some, way off my planet.

Unless the meaning is, both are not very good and therefore should not be disrespecting the Hawk.

Cheers

[jak_bot]

[quote name='millerman' timestamp='1289042114' post='2777168']
Thanks LY and Farmer for some constructive answers, guess this maybe not the questions to ask on this thread. very weird replys from some, way off my planet.

Unless the meaning is, both are not very good and therefore should not be disrespecting the Hawk.

Cheers
[/quote]

Welcome to the Hogan's Heroes Swing Forum, never a dull moment.

[LYG]

Miller:

Hang in there....you just caught some odd replies. Stay here, you will learn a lot. There are many smart people on the web site.

Hogan does bring out MANY diverse opinions.

[dalehead]

Don't know Bertrand, but I've always thought Sevam had some good insights into the techniques of Hogan and Moe Norman.

[millerman]

Yes I am not worried those two replys they seem to be aimed at the Corteslaw guy, all i asked if any one had an opinion on the two in the original thread.

I dont think for what its worth that there are hidden meanings in the 5L book. I get the impression that some think its like the da-vinci-code. I think Hogan was a genius and as I sit here looking at my framed print of him at the 1950 open at Merion, I still hope that I could shoot the lights out one day at my local course. As it is off 7 I am destined now to try and keep that handicapp by good old fashioned practice at the range.

There is no magic formula and after trawling the different threads i am now convinced by that. the average scores dont come down and even with technology that is availble since I started it only helps those at the higher end of the scale IMHO.

Why do I say that, cause 6 weeks ago I played my (director) hogan rusty irons instread of my ping and all though a club shorter still payed to my handicapp.

Maybe the secret is in the dirt its how everyone interpretates it, those that can explain it have a gift and those who cant just keep it to them selves.

Cheers

[michaelgb888]

I find myself going back or referring more to Bertrand's book than Sevam's. I like both, don't get me wrong, and I believe both of them, just that Bertrand's contains more about Hogan's swing, and those in Sevam's are also mentioned in Bertrand's, including Sevam's pre-torquing of right foot. Also, Bertrand has personal knowledge of Hogan's teachings through Schlee, so that interests me more. Just my 2 cents.

[LYG]

Miller and Michael:

Thanks for the posts.

Yes, Miller, I think Hogan's Five Lessons are the true fundamentals. GREAT stuff! But no DaVince-esque stuff there -- well said.

Michael, have you ever seen the book (and video) by Schlee, Maximum Golf? Great stuff, I got it in 1987 when it came out. You can see it on EBay or Alibris.com from time to time. He had some drills that Hogan taught him, you will NEVER see anywhere else. Let me know if you find it. If not, I can zerox some key chapters and mail to you.

[email protected]

[michaelgb888]

LYG,

No, I haven't seen them. Please send me xerox copies asap!!! Emailed you.

Best.

[downtoscratch]

LYG,
"[color=#1C2837]Sevan learned from people who learned from Moe Norman...like Bertrand, greatnesses handed down".[/color]
[color=#1C2837] Not even close to accurate......... check your facts.... they still matter don't they?[/color]
[color=#1C2837]
[/color]
[color=#1C2837] He has an awesome swing, which he shows on videos here.[/color]
[color=#1C2837] Very accurate statement here. [/color]
[color=#1C2837]
[/color]
[color=#1C2837] It's Sevam1 not Sevan. Sevam=Maves[/color]

[millerman]

LYG just tried to e mail you but no luck can you e mail me

[email protected]

cheers

[Tee_Party]

Have you tried Jim Hardy's "Plane Truth" information?

His One Plane Swing derives a lot from Hogan.

In particular his "Master Class" book contains a detailed section of Hogan's real secret.

Hardy personally knew and played with Hogan.

I don't know Maves and Bertrand, once I found the answer with the Hardy no need to keep searching.

[millerman]

I do have both Hardy's Books but srtuggled a little I may re-visit again. UK full of cold and rain so its reading time in the off season for me.
cheers

[jak_bot]

[quote name='Dariusz J.' timestamp='1288994336' post='2776538']
[quote name='millerman' timestamp='1288993546' post='2776517']
Eight Iron thats a fine answer but how about backing it up with something to back your reply. I am new here so have no idea what that retort meant.

Cheers
[/quote]

Ohhh...it meant nothing. Just with putting someone else with negative light while being unable to express something constructive. Typical for many fora.

Cheers
[/quote]

Eight and DJ,

What happened between the two of you? Reading DJ's BK thread from 2008, you two seemed quite cordial and very complimentary of each other.

[LYG]

Jak Bot:

I have a theory I call "planes of understanding."

People may be on different levels of knowledge...arguments often come because they are operating on different levels of understanding and knowledge.

Arguments occur..when in fact they may not totally disagree but be operating on different experience levels and knowledge levels.

Thanks, Lawson

[jak_bot]

[quote name='LYG' timestamp='1289587256' post='2787284']
Jak Bot:

I have a theory I call "planes of understanding."

People may be on different levels of knowledge...arguments often come because they are operating on different levels of understanding and knowledge.

Arguments occur..when in fact they may not totally disagree but be operating on different experience levels and knowledge levels.

Thanks, Lawson
[/quote]


That sounds like a very logical explanation. Thanks.

[TheWoat]

[quote name='Tee_Party' timestamp='1289244457' post='2780415']
Have you tried Jim Hardy's "Plane Truth" information?

His One Plane Swing derives a lot from Hogan.

In particular his "Master Class" book contains a detailed section of Hogan's real secret.

Hardy personally knew and played with Hogan.

I don't know Maves and Bertrand, once I found the answer with the Hardy no need to keep searching.
[/quote]

That section of the book got discussed a couple times in the swing forum by some very respected members, and... well... its in the archives of the forum.

Personally, I thought that book was a waste of money... I used it to start some fires during the winter.

[caryk]

[quote name='TheWoat' timestamp='1289805160' post='2790991']
[quote name='Tee_Party' timestamp='1289244457' post='2780415']
Have you tried Jim Hardy's "Plane Truth" information?

His One Plane Swing derives a lot from Hogan.

In particular his "Master Class" book contains a detailed section of Hogan's real secret.

Hardy personally knew and played with Hogan.

I don't know Maves and Bertrand, once I found the answer with the Hardy no need to keep searching.
[/quote]

That section of the book got discussed a couple times in the swing forum by some very respected members, and... well... its in the archives of the forum.

Personally, I thought that book was a waste of money... [b]I used it to start some fires during the winter.[/b]
[/quote]
Must have been pretty bad to merit the "Joan of Arc" treatment ... hahaha.

[michaelgb888]

Did the respected members dismissed Hardy's version of Hogan's secret in Master Class? What's the main reason for rejecting it? Sorry, just curious, missed that. When was that? Is the discussions/posts/archive still accessible?

[caryk]

I think Hogan's secret was that he just worked harder then anyone else and dug it out of the dirt. Many "claim" that they were told the secret by Hogan but I honestly think he was just having fun with them. I've counted at least 5-6 different "secrets" over the years that he was supposed to have based on articles or books.

Only Hogan knows what really worked for him and he took that to his grave. Anyone else claiming they unequivocally "know" his secret is just trying to take advantage of his legacy now that he's gone. Isn't it amazing how many of these "secrets" came out AFTER his passing.