Bertrand verses Sevam 1

[downtoscratch]

[quote name='caryk' timestamp='1290095088' post='2796656']
I think Hogan's secret was that he just worked harder then anyone else and dug it out of the dirt. Many "claim" that they were told the secret by Hogan but I honestly think he was just having fun with them. I've counted at least 5-6 different "secrets" over the years that he was supposed to have based on articles or books.

Only Hogan knows what really worked for him and he took that to his grave. Anyone else claiming they unequivocally "know" his secret is just trying to take advantage of his legacy now that he's gone. Isn't it amazing how many of these "secrets" came out AFTER his passing.
[/quote]

On the other hand it isn't beyond reason to consider that with the passage of time in this modern technological age things that were missed or perhaps just misunderstood before now may be clearer to discern. Without bearing too heavily on the notion of a 'secret' there seems yet much to know and much to discover. Then too not all that will come to pass will be of a 'new' nature but rather more likely a better grasp of what has come before. dts

[TheWoat]

[quote name='michaelgb888' timestamp='1290059793' post='2796313']
Did the respected members dismissed Hardy's version of Hogan's secret in Master Class? What's the main reason for rejecting it? Sorry, just curious, missed that. When was that? Is the discussions/posts/archive still accessible?
[/quote]

Hmmm, this was a couple or 3 years ago...memory...fading. I think SliceFixer, Hoganfan, and the since banned JeffMann and Jeffy were involved. Ill look for it

Edit: found a little of what I referred to.
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/125783-1-plane-vs-2-plane/page__hl__jim+hardy

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/125248-hogan-play-closed-to-open-clubface/page__p__793189__hl__open+to+closed__fromsearch__1#entry793189

The portions that get "questioned" are the "Hogan playing shut to open", "start the lawnmower" sections... there was more I think, just cant find it.

[caryk]

[quote name='TheWoat' timestamp='1290104269' post='2796945']
Hmmm, this was a couple or 3 years ago...memory...fading. I think SliceFixer, Hoganfan, and the since banned JeffMann and Jeffy were involved. Ill look for it
[/quote]
Jeffy's still here. He just goes by the screenname of "Tee_Party" now.

[tembolo1284]

Can anyone list what is in Sevam's book and in Bertrand's book?

Are any of these worth it? Can someone give a bit of insight on this?

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1297044818' post='2956798']
Can anyone list what is in Sevam's book and in Bertrand's book?

Are any of these worth it? Can someone give a bit of insight on this?
[/quote]

Bertrand's book is The Secret of Hogan's swing, Bertrand was a pupil of John Schlee, who worked with Hogan while on tour. Bertrand claims Schlee told him the secret was pointing the left elbow at the left hip through impact....IMO complete BS, but who am I to say.....

Sevam1 was a youtube/Golfwrx phenom a couple of years ago, you can find his secret on Youtube, essentially it is torquing the right foot in a paticular manner, he now works some with Steve Elkington and they have a website called Secrets in the Dirt, he wrote an ebook you can download. I have Bertrands book and IMO it is a waste of time, I have spent a lot of time on SITD and it is a great site, but I dont think Sevam knows Hogans secret, but I will say he is a great guy with passion and it is fun watching and reading his stuff just because he is very entertaining, has great stories and has a huge passion for Hogan and golf history in general.

[dlygrisse]

[quote name='downtoscratch' timestamp='1290101430' post='2796881']
[quote name='caryk' timestamp='1290095088' post='2796656']
I think Hogan's secret was that he just worked harder then anyone else and dug it out of the dirt. Many "claim" that they were told the secret by Hogan but I honestly think he was just having fun with them. I've counted at least 5-6 different "secrets" over the years that he was supposed to have based on articles or books.

Only Hogan knows what really worked for him and he took that to his grave. Anyone else claiming they unequivocally "know" his secret is just trying to take advantage of his legacy now that he's gone. Isn't it amazing how many of these "secrets" came out AFTER his passing.
[/quote]

On the other hand it isn't beyond reason to consider that with the passage of time in this modern technological age things that were missed or perhaps just misunderstood before now may be clearer to discern. Without bearing too heavily on the notion of a 'secret' there seems yet much to know and much to discover. Then too not all that will come to pass will be of a 'new' nature but rather more likely a better grasp of what has come before. dts
[/quote]

If Hogan was anything as a person he was forthright and honest, if not blunt. Hogan said in Life Magazine he secret was pronation, a weaker grip, and a cupping of the left wrist at the top, which stopped him from hooking. He also said that his secret would was for a better player who tended to hook and would probably ruin a average player.

IMO the secret would have ended there but in the late 80's or early 90's a few years before he died, he told Golf Digest he would reveal what the secret really was, then pulled out saying the 100K they offered was not enough money. He went to his grave not ever revealing it, or revealing if he was just messing with GD. If this story would have never occurred I am quite sure all this modern speculation would not be going on, see I think ol Ben was just playing a trick on us all, he revealed the true secret in 1955, everything since then is just there to keep him laughing in the after life.

It is almost like Ben knew the internet was coming, and he understood what his actions would provide, endless debate by wierdos like us debating a long lost secret like lost treasure never to be found......brilliant!

[williambenjamin11]

Why is Bertrand's book not so well approved? I think it says it all, and its reliable/credible bec he learned from Schlee who is a Hogan student. I think that "missing link" is right on the money..I mean, its really the "missing" lesson..so most probably Hogan's secret..its also just a different way of saying the left arm/armpit connection, which many believe is the secret..so I believe it..what's the objection on this again?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1297429017' post='2968062']
Why is Bertrand's book not so well approved? I think it says it all, and its reliable/credible bec he learned from Schlee who is a Hogan student. I think that "missing link" is right on the money..I mean, its really the "missing" lesson..so most probably Hogan's secret..its also just a different way of saying the left arm/armpit connection, which many believe is the secret..so I believe it..what's the objection on this again?
[/quote]


No objection here. But I think there's too many other things that are far more important that go into turning a hook into a fade.

[sgcoelnfd1]

Does anyone have a copy of the Golf Digest from October 93 (I believe), with the foldout cover, titled "Ben Hogan's Secret?"

One of the statements which interested me most was Ken Venturi's, "he found a way plane the club with his right arm."

Which I thought was in sync with Hogan's reference to a boxer throwing a knockout punch, "at the top of the backwing I wanted my right arm in position to throw a knockout punch."

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='sgcoelnfd1' timestamp='1297876169' post='2982627']
Does anyone have a copy of the Golf Digest from October 93 (I believe), with the foldout cover, titled "Ben Hogan's Secret?"

One of the statements which interested me most was Ken Venturi's, "he found a way plane the club with his right arm."

Which I thought was in sync with Hogan's reference to a boxer throwing a knockout punch, "at the top of the backwing I wanted my right arm in position to throw a knockout punch."
[/quote]


anyone have a picture of this...would be great to see it.

[tembolo1284]

Is Eightiron Mac O' Grady?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1319484385' post='3712125']
Is Eightiron Mac O' Grady?
[/quote]


Sorry all...I meant to ask if 8i is WITH Mac. Did he study MORAD under him.
Best to ask him though.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dlygrisse' timestamp='1297054230' post='2957130']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1297044818' post='2956798']
Can anyone list what is in Sevam's book and in Bertrand's book?

Are any of these worth it? Can someone give a bit of insight on this?
[/quote]

Bertrand's book is The Secret of Hogan's swing, Bertrand was a pupil of John Schlee, who worked with Hogan while on tour. Bertrand claims Schlee told him the secret was pointing the left elbow at the left hip through impact....IMO complete BS, but who am I to say.....

Sevam1 was a youtube/Golfwrx phenom a couple of years ago, you can find his secret on Youtube, essentially it is torquing the right foot in a paticular manner, he now works some with Steve Elkington and they have a website called Secrets in the Dirt, he wrote an ebook you can download. I have Bertrands book and IMO it is a waste of time, I have spent a lot of time on SITD and it is a great site, but I dont think Sevam knows Hogans secret, but I will say he is a great guy with passion and it is fun watching and reading his stuff just because he is very entertaining, has great stories and has a huge passion for Hogan and golf history in general.
[/quote]


finally read the bertrand book. Didn't like it. Seems like this elbow point move is encouraging a roll release. Not a fan.

[ej002]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1319543033' post='3714837']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1319484385' post='3712125']
Is Eightiron Mac O' Grady?
[/quote]


Sorry all...I meant to ask if 8i is WITH Mac. Did he study MORAD under him.
Best to ask him though.
[/quote]


MORAD I think, not sure if he worked with Mac. I think he works/ed with Lake.

Its kind of a random question, no?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1319645986' post='3720829']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1319543033' post='3714837']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1319484385' post='3712125']
Is Eightiron Mac O' Grady?
[/quote]


Sorry all...I meant to ask if 8i is WITH Mac. Did he study MORAD under him.
Best to ask him though.
[/quote]


MORAD I think, not sure if he worked with Mac. I think he works/ed with Lake.

Its kind of a random question, no?
[/quote]


ya guess it seemed that way. Just trying to contact O'Grady and thought he might have known another email or something.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1297429017' post='2968062']
Why is Bertrand's book not so well approved? I think it says it all, and its reliable/credible bec he learned from Schlee who is a Hogan student. I think that "missing link" is right on the money..I mean, its really the "missing" lesson..so most probably Hogan's secret..its also just a different way of saying the left arm/armpit connection, which many believe is the secret..so I believe it..what's the objection on this again?
[/quote]

Bertrand's claim is not just left arm connection, but rather tucking his left elbow into his left hip and rotating his left forearm, which is the objection by many, because it's pretty obvious that Hogan didn't do that in his stock fade swing.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1319738745' post='3727077']
[quote name='williambenjamin11' timestamp='1297429017' post='2968062']
Why is Bertrand's book not so well approved? I think it says it all, and its reliable/credible bec he learned from Schlee who is a Hogan student. I think that "missing link" is right on the money..I mean, its really the "missing" lesson..so most probably Hogan's secret..its also just a different way of saying the left arm/armpit connection, which many believe is the secret..so I believe it..what's the objection on this again?
[/quote]

Bertrand's claim is not just left arm connection, but rather tucking his left elbow into his left hip and rotating his left forearm, which is the objection by many, because it's pretty obvious that Hogan didn't do that in his stock fade swing.
[/quote]


to supinate or not...that is the question.