Slow Play - getting worse and courses don't care

[tElihu]

[quote name='signats' timestamp='1293740078' post='2866417']
[quote name='tElihu' timestamp='1293732842' post='2866195']
Those make a fair argument. Unfortunately it's a selfish one. Stating that you don't have a problem letting players through ignores the fact that your [b]still [/b]holding up play, since letting a group play through takes time. Not to mention the fact that if you let everyone who is keeping pace behind you go past (which never happens), you'll be constantly letting players through. Moreover, just because your comfort level is over four hours doesn't give you the right to hold up everyone behind you. If my comfort level was 7 hours is that ok?

The general, well-accepted, de facto standard pace of play is 4 hours ([b]or less[/b]), which to many, including me, is even slow. If you play faster, great (although you cannot, nor should not expect everyone to play at your pace). But if you play slower, like it or not you are responsible as a member of (golfing) society to play at the accepted pace.
[/quote]


Very sorry the extra 100 seconds my group takes per hole upsets you and BB so much. We are not holding up play. groups in front of us on a crowded day [b]never[/b] pull away. We are lucky enough to be able to choose to golf at less crowded times, so perhaps this is a reason for our difference in opinion on this issue.

Since you guys like to give advice, in the spirit of the holiday season and all, here is some for you: if anybody is holding you up, the best way to fix them is by firmly placing your hands on hips, then stare directly at them with laser beam intensity, now visualize shooting darts with your eyes at the back of their head. Try with all your mental focus to light their hair on fire, while making your face change color (hold your breath if necessary). This technique is also extremely effective in traffic jams, and grocery store/DMV lines as well as helping with the short game, blood pressure, and overall enjoyment of the life experience.

Expectations are a b****, recognizing when and how to adjust them is a fantastic skill to have, you and BB make me feel blessed in that regard, thank you for that.

I'm off to study the rule book, and get some Youtube golf lessons, because I'm sure that is where I can make up the the less than 2 min. per hole time difference that seem to have generated your and BB's distain, unless of course it is my selfishly wanting to enjoy a free spirited golf outing with my buddies that is the cause of your displeasure, in which case there probably is no cure for [b]my[/b] shortcoming in that regard.

By the way all the courses we play at have posted signs that the expectation is 15 min. per hole, so uhh we got that goin' for us.

Happy and healthy New Year, to everybody!
[/quote]

Cute reply. But your characterization attempt failed, and I wasn't giving advice (nor taking any at this point in time).

In any case, 100 seconds a hole is a half an hour. Yes I know you're smart enough to do the math, but chopping it up into tiny segments doesn't change the fact that you've added 30 minutes to your round (and everyone else's behind you).

If ALL the courses you play have posted signs stating the expectations are 15 minutes per hole, you're either not playing many different courses, or you're playing courses that have different standards than I've ever seen (could be since we're not from the same region and thus don't play the same courses). No worries though. In either case enjoy your 4 1/2 hour rounds (especially knowing you won't have to worry about me behind you with my hands on my hips). You are, after all, playing at the accepted pace.

[dbloom136]

I definitely avoid certain courses because slow play but the best thing about golf in the summer in Las Vegas is that is so hot and if you dont mind the heat you can play many courses in the afternoon with a 3 or 4 hole gap in front and back of you. I teed off last summer on a monday afternoon around 330 and the starter said the closest group to us was most likely on 15, so the 3 of us hit two tee shots on every hole. Thats why i try to get my work schedual to have weekdays off instead of sat/sun so i can get out with out all the traffic.

[Greenie]

I my area the general time for pace of play is also 15 min. per hole = 4 1/2 hrs. per round. Any course that I play that actually cares about pace of play generally uses the 15 min. per hole as a guide line. I have seen signs posted at some of the courses stating that and a few others that have timers on their carts that are also set for 15 mins. per hole. I play about 50 times a yr. and switch around between 25 different courses each yr. within an hr. from home.
I consider my foursome playing a round in 3:45 to 4 hrs. a fairly quick group by what I am use to in my area. Being use to the 15 min. a hole rule, I feel any group that is done in 4 1/2 hrs. or less I consider to be playing at an acceptable pace of play. Any time past that is slow and a 5hr. round is totally unacceptable.
I would love to play in 4 hrs. everytime. Not gonna happen any more. We ended up with more 5 hr. rounds this yr. then ever before.
Things are different now , course don't care as much about pace of play. They are just happy to have people playing. The courses that are really slow I will not go to anymore.

[Big Ben]

You will not have many allies at WRX supporting slow play, and make no bones about it 4.5hrs is slow play. No lights in my head and shaking hips or whatever from me, I always display sportsmanship on the course regardless of circumstance. As a matter of fact, I will not even look at slow players and I totally agree with the previous poster its about discipline and courtesy for my fellow golfers who still carry the torch the way we where taught...

[mshills]

What is missing in this whole thread is consideration of the [i][b]course[/b][/i]. You can't make blanket statements that 4 hours is how long a round "should" take. Well, okay, you [u]can[/u] make those blanket statements, but that does not stop them from being foolish. A round should take 4 hours on some courses. On others, a round should take 3:50. On others, 4:20. On still others, 4:45.

I agree that anything much over 4 hours is slow [b]on some golf courses.[/b] But [u]not[/u] on others. I've played some courses designed with real estate in mind where a 4.5 hour round was a very good pace indeed, due mostly to the length from green to next tee. I am not defending those designs, and quite frankly I hate playing those courses because they are generally very difficult to impossible to walk.

Older, shorter, more compact courses, sure - 4 hours maximum, but I'd challenge anyone to complete a round in 4 hours on many of the newer Phoenix-area courses (for example) without resorting to speed golf, which is not golf at all.

[Everest209]

[quote name='dbloom136' timestamp='1293751683' post='2866743']
I definitely avoid certain courses because slow play but the best thing about golf in the summer in Las Vegas is that is so hot and if you dont mind the heat you can play many courses in the afternoon with a 3 or 4 hole gap in front and back of you. I teed off last summer on a monday afternoon around 330 and the starter said the closest group to us was most likely on 15, so the 3 of us hit two tee shots on every hole. Thats why i try to get my work schedual to have weekdays off instead of sat/sun so i can get out with out all the traffic.
[/quote]


Downside definitely heat stroke, but I've done the same thing. The hard part about golfing when the weather is perfect is everyone else that has the slightest liking for golf is there too.

[vietnameeh]

I hate slow playyyyyyy its the worse

but at the same time I don't mind slow play if groups in front of me are keeping up play..... thats the best you can do really with the situation

for me a weekday round should only be 3 hours
one reason i dont play weekends cause of dreaded 5+ hour round

and around here... seems like thursday and friday have now turned into weekend days for golf... weekday rates with the weekend play... its getting pretty bad

i hate when slow play is caused by

1. "golf digest pros"... you know the guys that think they pump it 300+ ... so they wait for the group in front to get on the green on a 350 yard par 4s only to "bomb their drive" to 100 yards in and twirl their club after hitting it
2. "Once in a Blue Moon"... you know the ones that feel entitled to playing slow.. because they don't play often and they aren't good so they expect everyone else to put that in consideration ... haha greattt
3. "baby boomers" ... you know the ones that been around... they feel people should respect them due to their "age" (which I give respect all the time) but for some reason... they don't feel like letting you play through
4. "gamblers" you know the cash game guys... whether its a buck or 1000 bucks.... playing behind these guys is like playing behind the last group in the US OPEN...
5. "By the Book" you know the golfers.... that want a legit handicap... so they won't drop a ball, when its lost... when in doubt they'll reload on the tee box... play by the book
6. "Im only in it for free golf" Marshals at least where I play.... i swear they only do it for free golf, You complain multiple times about a slower group same speech back "the group infront of them is slow .. etc etc its backed up the whole way"
7. "men's/ladies club" you know the ones .... "this is my home course... im a member..... I know everyone who works here" ... so they play to whatever pace cause they own the place...rightttt


haha happy new year.... heres to a better year of faster play haha yaa right

[fireguyfrank58]

[quote name='baronfaroo' timestamp='1289782255' post='2790512']
[quote name='draw1' timestamp='1289337533' post='2782701']
This is a big reason why people join private golf clubs...
[/quote]

This isn't always true. When I was a member at a private course, there were always a dozen or so people who acted like they owned the course. And they were the slowest golfers out there. They had a lot of bets/money games going on so they were always keeping track of how others were doing. And they always managed to get the 8:30 to 9:15 tee times on the weekends. So you always had to go out before them. Maybe that's why the club lost a ton of members and eventually closed up.
[/quote]
In my neck of the woods senior players slow down the courses. Some courses let them tee off in groups of 5 and every group will play like its a championship. I've seem players leave their cart, walk 20 or 30 yards look at there ball, the walk back and get a club the walk back and hit. Im all about seniors getting out and being active but that is ridiculous. I've seem marshals drive right by them and not say a word even though there are 3 groups backed up behind them. I think courses are affraid of making them mad because they play there alot and bring alot of money in.

[J.A.Wise]

In the group of guys I have the pleasure of playing with, I will admit I am probably the slowest. That being said we still get through a round in under 4 hrs. (as long as we are not held up) We always let a 2 some or 3 some pass us if we are holding them up and there is room between us and the group ahead. Because of the economy we very seldom have an issue with getting the tee times we want or slow play. Just not as many people playing. All this being said here is my list of ways to help this issue:

1. Pair a 2 some up with another 2 some, or a single up with a 3 some
(I have meet some really great people this way and I like the competition)

2. Marshall's - does anyone ever see them anymore?
(their is a entire generation of younger guys who have retired that could do this job in exchange for golf)

3. GPS - at least 2 of us in our standard foursome have GPS and we share the information with the others.

4. Other than the Tee Box we always play Ready Golf.

5. Keep an eye on your partners shot to eliminate searching forever for a ball.

I know this seems very simply, but overall just common courtesy on the course helps out and makes it enjoyable for all.

[golferlaird]

There is a course I used to work at like that. Nobody played it, it was too busy! lol...

[SoCalTitleist]

Played yesterday and moved along quite welll unitl the 15th, looked like some begginers which was fine but totallly throws off your rythem when all comes to a halt.

[sennett0r]

I agree with the slow play ruining your rhythm. Unfortunately, I work a normal Mon-Fri job and can only play on weekends which in LA, means a 5 hour round is decent.

[jeff_d]

I think the 5-6 hour round is an LA thing. And what is up w/the 5 some?

I cant think of anywhere else in the world I have played where people in general play this slowly or have 5 somes. I never saw a 5 some before I came to LA.

In asia you get to stop fairly often for a snack or a drink in an enclosure, and still the round is rarely 5 hours.

My wife and I just usually try to get the first tee times at places where we know the pace of play is going to be good. 3 hours for the two of us is fine. Even when we play w/ a 4 some we have been lucky enough to finish close to 4 hours early in the AM.

I can only attribute this pace of play thing to the LA mindset. No consideration at all to anyone else besides yourself. A round IMO should never be more then 4:15, ever, no matter the course IMO. The first thing anyone should learn is keep up the pace of play. It needs to be enforced.

[NCg0lfer]

I hate slow play and feel it is one of if not the main cause for a decrease in the golfing population. I have several friends who just dont play any longer cause they cant justify 5-6 hrs for a round of golf. A four hour round should be completely acceptable by all. 4hrs is not to excessive a pace while still allowing plenty of time to take in the surroundings. even beginners can play in 4hrs. I know I have been one at one time and have played with several. For those who dont agree and like a more leisurely pace by all means enjoy. Just be kind enough to let faster groups thru.