100-105 Swing Speed Distance

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1392297326' post='8658505']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1392255559' post='8656281']
Overall I think 105 mph with a reg flex driver 9 deg loft on dead solid hit at 17 deg launch produces with no wind at seal level 250 yards carry. Stiff shaft 245 or so maybe 250 with a distance ball and 5 yards more for every 1,500 feet you go up in elevation. So if you swing 105 you need less launch and more roll I swing 105 and get 290 at times with my roll.
[/quote]

Not sure I follow why a reg would go further than a stiff? Unless you are suggesting the reg would be better loaded to generate a higher clubhead speed at impact (and hence NOT comapring like for like 105 mph swing speed which takes account of the shaft) then by setting a fixed launch angle the only variable is spin.

The slower a ball is moving the more spin that is required to keep it in the air for any given launch angle. If anything a regular shaft launched at 105 ss (say 155 bs) is likely to spin too much to be optimum at 17 degrees.

Totally agree a regular shaft could go further for a 105 ss, but it would be for a guy who is struggling with launch and aside from the reg giving slightly better launch, the extra spin would help. If you are fixing launch at 17 (which is pretty high) and ss at 105 then a reg shaft is likely to be shorter compared like to like with a softer version of the same shaft
[/quote]


The reg flex shaft would hit the ball longer, but its a HELL of a lot harder to control for accuracy.

[alange_underpar]

[quote name='Swingie' timestamp='1311127854' post='3406204']
Interesting thread. There have been many good replies here and many are correct.
Lets get the variables in order:
elevation
Wind
curvature of hole
marking on the course(I fully assume this was not GPS marked)
Actual swingspeed measured by proper device - sometimes outside will read the same person faster than indoors
Adrenaline - gearing up an extra bit when stnd speed is at a certain #

If the hole is cut off some, slight downhill, a few yards marked off and he hits the front of the green; a '300' hole could be a 265 carry front edge or slightly less.

Please feel free to add more but understand that E=Mc(2) - you cannot buy fifty dollars worth of groceries with 40 dollars, just not poss.
That being said there is some other factor in play. All my assumptions are based on estimated CARRY you stated, and though putting it in the back of his stance may help him and his personal swing it does not change physics. I think he has a good club setup and is just faster than the machine u read from states.
[/quote]

Coupons….

[oregongolfguy]

My swing speed with driver is right around 100mph most of the time.....I play at reasonably high elevation....around 3k up. I generally hit the ball on a low/mid trajectory. I know that I am not very well fitted in my driver, and I am not very consistent striking ball with driver. I probably average about 230 carry. When the stars align it gets out there 240 ish carry max.

[MizzyMan]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1393652754' post='8769938']
[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1392297326' post='8658505']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1392255559' post='8656281']
Overall I think 105 mph with a reg flex driver 9 deg loft on dead solid hit at 17 deg launch produces with no wind at seal level 250 yards carry. Stiff shaft 245 or so maybe 250 with a distance ball and 5 yards more for every 1,500 feet you go up in elevation. So if you swing 105 you need less launch and more roll I swing 105 and get 290 at times with my roll.
[/quote]

Not sure I follow why a reg would go further than a stiff? Unless you are suggesting the reg would be better loaded to generate a higher clubhead speed at impact (and hence NOT comapring like for like 105 mph swing speed which takes account of the shaft) then by setting a fixed launch angle the only variable is spin.

The slower a ball is moving the more spin that is required to keep it in the air for any given launch angle. If anything a regular shaft launched at 105 ss (say 155 bs) is likely to spin too much to be optimum at 17 degrees.

Totally agree a regular shaft could go further for a 105 ss, but it would be for a guy who is struggling with launch and aside from the reg giving slightly better launch, the extra spin would help. If you are fixing launch at 17 (which is pretty high) and ss at 105 then a reg shaft is likely to be shorter compared like to like with a softer version of the same shaft
[/quote]


The reg flex shaft would hit the ball longer, but its a HELL of a lot harder to control for accuracy.
[/quote]

A R flex can carry further than an S shaft only if you swing it faster. Thus you're comparing apples to oranges. A 105 clubhead speed vs. maybe 107 or 108. If they're both swung at 105 you'll get the same distance, assuming everything is equal.

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='MizzyMan' timestamp='1393780415' post='8778194']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1393652754' post='8769938']
[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1392297326' post='8658505']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1392255559' post='8656281']
Overall I think 105 mph with a reg flex driver 9 deg loft on dead solid hit at 17 deg launch produces with no wind at seal level 250 yards carry. Stiff shaft 245 or so maybe 250 with a distance ball and 5 yards more for every 1,500 feet you go up in elevation. So if you swing 105 you need less launch and more roll I swing 105 and get 290 at times with my roll.
[/quote]

Not sure I follow why a reg would go further than a stiff? Unless you are suggesting the reg would be better loaded to generate a higher clubhead speed at impact (and hence NOT comapring like for like 105 mph swing speed which takes account of the shaft) then by setting a fixed launch angle the only variable is spin.

The slower a ball is moving the more spin that is required to keep it in the air for any given launch angle. If anything a regular shaft launched at 105 ss (say 155 bs) is likely to spin too much to be optimum at 17 degrees.

Totally agree a regular shaft could go further for a 105 ss, but it would be for a guy who is struggling with launch and aside from the reg giving slightly better launch, the extra spin would help. If you are fixing launch at 17 (which is pretty high) and ss at 105 then a reg shaft is likely to be shorter compared like to like with a softer version of the same shaft
[/quote]


The reg flex shaft would hit the ball longer, but its a HELL of a lot harder to control for accuracy.
[/quote]

A R flex can carry further than an S shaft only if you swing it faster. Thus you're comparing apples to oranges. A 105 clubhead speed vs. maybe 107 or 108. If they're both swung at 105 you'll get the same distance, assuming everything is equal.
[/quote]


Everything isn't equal. We are talking about using two different shaft flex's which have WAY different kick points if swung at he same speed, thus the distant will vary because of the load of the shaft under duress as it reverberates back to the straight position.

Not apples and oranges. I see this problem every week with certain playing partners of mine who swing just as hard as me, but with stock graphite shafts meant for senior players. These aren't special shafts, they're stock straight from the rack of a retail store.

[KarstenK]

This might help the guesstimates...

[url="http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/"]http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/[/url]

[gopherguts]

[quote name='MizzyMan' timestamp='1393780415' post='8778194']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1393652754' post='8769938']
[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1392297326' post='8658505']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1392255559' post='8656281']
Overall I think 105 mph with a reg flex driver 9 deg loft on dead solid hit at 17 deg launch produces with no wind at seal level 250 yards carry. Stiff shaft 245 or so maybe 250 with a distance ball and 5 yards more for every 1,500 feet you go up in elevation. So if you swing 105 you need less launch and more roll I swing 105 and get 290 at times with my roll.
[/quote]

Not sure I follow why a reg would go further than a stiff? Unless you are suggesting the reg would be better loaded to generate a higher clubhead speed at impact (and hence NOT comapring like for like 105 mph swing speed which takes account of the shaft) then by setting a fixed launch angle the only variable is spin.

The slower a ball is moving the more spin that is required to keep it in the air for any given launch angle. If anything a regular shaft launched at 105 ss (say 155 bs) is likely to spin too much to be optimum at 17 degrees.

Totally agree a regular shaft could go further for a 105 ss, but it would be for a guy who is struggling with launch and aside from the reg giving slightly better launch, the extra spin would help. If you are fixing launch at 17 (which is pretty high) and ss at 105 then a reg shaft is likely to be shorter compared like to like with a softer version of the same shaft
[/quote]


The reg flex shaft would hit the ball longer, but its a HELL of a lot harder to control for accuracy.
[/quote]

A R flex can carry further than an S shaft only if you swing it faster. Thus you're comparing apples to oranges. A 105 clubhead speed vs. maybe 107 or 108. If they're both swung at 105 you'll get the same distance, assuming everything is equal.
[/quote]

I would have to disagree. An "R" flexes more than an "S". More flex = more "kick", i.e. more energy transmitted to the ball. All OTHER things being equal.

Technology is ever evolving and tells us a lot about the physics of the golf swing and club contact. Things we seldom KNEW about only 10 years ago. Launch monitors calculating ball speed, face angle, etc in MICRO seconds. Super slow motion that can see everything that goes on during the swing.

The way I've read about it (here ?) was in describing the driver shaft but I would expect it applies to irons as well. Probably to a lesser degree since iron shafts are shorter and stiffer(?).

For driver impact, super slow mo has seen 3 different shaft positions at impact.

1) In the shape of an "open parenthesis",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (
2) In the shape of a straight line,,,,,,,,,,,,, I
3) In the shape of a "close parenthesis),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, )

The straight line would be preferable as the shaft has released "right on time". That position also results in the "straightest", or most square clubface as well.

The ( position means the shaft has already released its maximum power BEFORE hitting the ball. As you can imagine the clubface position is/can be compromised and would be "closing" ever so slightly at impact.

The ) position means the shaft hasn't YET released its maximum power and again, the clubface position is/can be compromised and would be "opening" ever so slightly at impact.

Similarly the "R" flex iron shaft will kick MORE than an "S". Given the shaft positions (as described above) the shaft could kick early, on time, or late. Again, all things being equal and assuming the "S" and the"R" swung at the same speed AND released on time the "R" will go farther. However, these same 2 shafts swung at the same speed and tempo most likely will NOT release the same.

However, again, assuming I have described the shaft positions properly, a stronger player can get LESS distance from an "R" than an "S" because the "S" will kick on time and the "R" won't.

Anyway, that is basically how I remember the discussion going. I forget if there was video along with it.

If I've gotten any of this incorrect I'm sure somebody will correct it.

[Pleasedwith3putts]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394087928' post='8809571']
[quote name='MizzyMan' timestamp='1393780415' post='8778194']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1393652754' post='8769938']
[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1392297326' post='8658505']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1392255559' post='8656281']
Overall I think 105 mph with a reg flex driver 9 deg loft on dead solid hit at 17 deg launch produces with no wind at seal level 250 yards carry. Stiff shaft 245 or so maybe 250 with a distance ball and 5 yards more for every 1,500 feet you go up in elevation. So if you swing 105 you need less launch and more roll I swing 105 and get 290 at times with my roll.
[/quote]

Not sure I follow why a reg would go further than a stiff? Unless you are suggesting the reg would be better loaded to generate a higher clubhead speed at impact (and hence NOT comapring like for like 105 mph swing speed which takes account of the shaft) then by setting a fixed launch angle the only variable is spin.

The slower a ball is moving the more spin that is required to keep it in the air for any given launch angle. If anything a regular shaft launched at 105 ss (say 155 bs) is likely to spin too much to be optimum at 17 degrees.

Totally agree a regular shaft could go further for a 105 ss, but it would be for a guy who is struggling with launch and aside from the reg giving slightly better launch, the extra spin would help. If you are fixing launch at 17 (which is pretty high) and ss at 105 then a reg shaft is likely to be shorter compared like to like with a softer version of the same shaft
[/quote]


The reg flex shaft would hit the ball longer, but its a HELL of a lot harder to control for accuracy.
[/quote]

A R flex can carry further than an S shaft only if you swing it faster. Thus you're comparing apples to oranges. A 105 clubhead speed vs. maybe 107 or 108. If they're both swung at 105 you'll get the same distance, assuming everything is equal.
[/quote]

I would have to disagree. An "R" flexes more than an "S". More flex = more "kick", i.e. more energy transmitted to the ball. All OTHER things being equal.

Technology is ever evolving and tells us a lot about the physics of the golf swing and club contact. Things we seldom KNEW about only 10 years ago. Launch monitors calculating ball speed, face angle, etc in MICRO seconds. Super slow motion that can see everything that goes on during the swing.

The way I've read about it (here ?) was in describing the driver shaft but I would expect it applies to irons as well. Probably to a lesser degree since iron shafts are shorter and stiffer(?).

For driver impact, super slow mo has seen 3 different shaft positions at impact.

1) In the shape of an "open parenthesis",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (
2) In the shape of a straight line,,,,,,,,,,,,, I
3) In the shape of a "close parenthesis),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, )

The straight line would be preferable as the shaft has released "right on time". That position also results in the "straightest", or most square clubface as well.

The ( position means the shaft has already released its maximum power BEFORE hitting the ball. As you can imagine the clubface position is/can be compromised and would be "closing" ever so slightly at impact.

The ) position means the shaft hasn't YET released its maximum power and again, the clubface position is/can be compromised and would be "opening" ever so slightly at impact.

Similarly the "R" flex iron shaft will kick MORE than an "S". Given the shaft positions (as described above) the shaft could kick early, on time, or late. Again, all things being equal and assuming the "S" and the"R" swung at the same speed AND released on time the "R" will go farther. However, these same 2 shafts swung at the same speed and tempo most likely will NOT release the same.

However, again, assuming I have described the shaft positions properly, a stronger player can get LESS distance from an "R" than an "S" because the "S" will kick on time and the "R" won't.

Anyway, that is basically how I remember the discussion going. I forget if there was video along with it.

If I've gotten any of this incorrect I'm sure somebody will correct it.
[/quote]

Clubhead speed is clubhead speed - just to be clear, a whippier shaft may increase clubhead speed if it results in the shaft releasing at the correct time compared to a stiffer shaft. That's a nuance on the debate, what you are really saying is that the correct flex shaft may increase clubhead speed. The ball does not know if 2 identical drivers hitting at an identical clubhead speed are an open or closed parenthesis!

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1394112668' post='8810247']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394087928' post='8809571']
[quote name='MizzyMan' timestamp='1393780415' post='8778194']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1393652754' post='8769938']
[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1392297326' post='8658505']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1392255559' post='8656281']
Overall I think 105 mph with a reg flex driver 9 deg loft on dead solid hit at 17 deg launch produces with no wind at seal level 250 yards carry. Stiff shaft 245 or so maybe 250 with a distance ball and 5 yards more for every 1,500 feet you go up in elevation. So if you swing 105 you need less launch and more roll I swing 105 and get 290 at times with my roll.
[/quote]

Not sure I follow why a reg would go further than a stiff? Unless you are suggesting the reg would be better loaded to generate a higher clubhead speed at impact (and hence NOT comapring like for like 105 mph swing speed which takes account of the shaft) then by setting a fixed launch angle the only variable is spin.

The slower a ball is moving the more spin that is required to keep it in the air for any given launch angle. If anything a regular shaft launched at 105 ss (say 155 bs) is likely to spin too much to be optimum at 17 degrees.

Totally agree a regular shaft could go further for a 105 ss, but it would be for a guy who is struggling with launch and aside from the reg giving slightly better launch, the extra spin would help. If you are fixing launch at 17 (which is pretty high) and ss at 105 then a reg shaft is likely to be shorter compared like to like with a softer version of the same shaft
[/quote]


The reg flex shaft would hit the ball longer, but its a HELL of a lot harder to control for accuracy.
[/quote]

A R flex can carry further than an S shaft only if you swing it faster. Thus you're comparing apples to oranges. A 105 clubhead speed vs. maybe 107 or 108. If they're both swung at 105 you'll get the same distance, assuming everything is equal.
[/quote]

I would have to disagree. An "R" flexes more than an "S". More flex = more "kick", i.e. more energy transmitted to the ball. All OTHER things being equal.

Technology is ever evolving and tells us a lot about the physics of the golf swing and club contact. Things we seldom KNEW about only 10 years ago. Launch monitors calculating ball speed, face angle, etc in MICRO seconds. Super slow motion that can see everything that goes on during the swing.

The way I've read about it (here ?) was in describing the driver shaft but I would expect it applies to irons as well. Probably to a lesser degree since iron shafts are shorter and stiffer(?).

For driver impact, super slow mo has seen 3 different shaft positions at impact.

1) In the shape of an "open parenthesis",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (
2) In the shape of a straight line,,,,,,,,,,,,, I
3) In the shape of a "close parenthesis),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, )

The straight line would be preferable as the shaft has released "right on time". That position also results in the "straightest", or most square clubface as well.

The ( position means the shaft has already released its maximum power BEFORE hitting the ball. As you can imagine the clubface position is/can be compromised and would be "closing" ever so slightly at impact.

The ) position means the shaft hasn't YET released its maximum power and again, the clubface position is/can be compromised and would be "opening" ever so slightly at impact.

Similarly the "R" flex iron shaft will kick MORE than an "S". Given the shaft positions (as described above) the shaft could kick early, on time, or late. Again, all things being equal and assuming the "S" and the"R" swung at the same speed AND released on time the "R" will go farther. However, these same 2 shafts swung at the same speed and tempo most likely will NOT release the same.

However, again, assuming I have described the shaft positions properly, a stronger player can get LESS distance from an "R" than an "S" because the "S" will kick on time and the "R" won't.

Anyway, that is basically how I remember the discussion going. I forget if there was video along with it.

If I've gotten any of this incorrect I'm sure somebody will correct it.
[/quote]

Clubhead speed is clubhead speed - just to be clear, a whippier shaft may increase clubhead speed if it results in the shaft releasing at the correct time compared to a stiffer shaft. That's a nuance on the debate, what you are really saying is that the correct flex shaft may increase clubhead speed. The ball does not know if 2 identical drivers hitting at an identical clubhead speed are an open or closed parenthesis!
[/quote]

Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']

Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394150010' post='8814777']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....
[/quote]

Weatherman says the polar vortex is drunk and is showering the east coast with severe winter storms in early spring. Does the weatherman give you a physics lesson on barometric pressure systems? No? Why not? Because people are looking outside at the f****** snow, thats why.

[Neige]

105 mph results in the same distance (other things such spin, weather etc being equal) regardless if it was achieved with senior flex or Xstiff shaft. Flex may influence how one obtained those 105 mph, but that is a different discussion.

(Hard to believe there are people who even debate this. It's like arguing what is heavier 1 lb of cotton balls or 1 lb of steel - I thought we figured this when we were 8 years old.)

[Pleasedwith3putts]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394164487' post='8816711']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394150010' post='8814777']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....
[/quote]

Weatherman says the polar vortex is drunk and is showering the east coast with severe winter storms in early spring. Does the weatherman give you a physics lesson on barometric pressure systems? No? Why not? Because people are looking outside at the f****** snow, thats why.
[/quote]

Have you seen Elvis too?

[joey2aces]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394164487' post='8816711']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394150010' post='8814777']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....
[/quote]

Weatherman says the polar vortex is drunk and is showering the east coast with severe winter storms in early spring. Does the weatherman give you a physics lesson on barometric pressure systems? No? Why not? Because people are looking outside at the f****** snow, thats why.
[/quote]

In all due respect, the weatherman doesn't give a lesson on atmospheric physics because he only has a 30 second spot. If someone wanted to know WHY things happen then, yes, he would and more importantly COULD provide it.
If someone on here asks for you to explain your theory, you should. If no then your argument does not hold water. I am not saying you are right and I am not saying you are wrong but if a client asks me why a well diversified portfolio is good I don't give him a smart a** weatherman analogy.

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='joey2aces' timestamp='1394200561' post='8818545']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394164487' post='8816711']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394150010' post='8814777']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....
[/quote]

Weatherman says the polar vortex is drunk and is showering the east coast with severe winter storms in early spring. Does the weatherman give you a physics lesson on barometric pressure systems? No? Why not? Because people are looking outside at the f****** snow, thats why.
[/quote]

In all due respect, the weatherman doesn't give a lesson on atmospheric physics because he only has a 30 second spot. If someone wanted to know WHY things happen then, yes, he would and more importantly COULD provide it.
If someone on here asks for you to explain your theory, you should. If no then your argument does not hold water. I am not saying you are right and I am not saying you are wrong but if a client asks me why a well diversified portfolio is good I don't give him a smart a** weatherman analogy.
[/quote]

Does your client disprove the evidence based assertion you provide him before asking for you to prove it, in detail, with physics theory?

Im not providing a hypothesis to be proven. Im telling you what I actually see every week.

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394164487' post='8816711']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394150010' post='8814777']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....
[/quote]

Weatherman says the polar vortex is drunk and is showering the east coast with severe winter storms in early spring. Does the weatherman give you a physics lesson on barometric pressure systems? No? Why not? Because people are looking outside at the f****** snow, thats why.
[/quote]


Thanks for proving a point...

I can give you plenty of reasons why it doesn't happen, as could tons of fitters, club designers, and physicists, and you can't give me one as to why it would. And I am the one that's wrong? Yah...okay.

[jay65]

The 1lb of cotton balls or 1lb of steel, surely should have been enough of an analogy. Jeez!

[Krt22]

The LMs pick up head/club speed only.....they dont care what flex the shaft is.

The better wording might be..if the same person swung a regular flex and stiff flex with the same effort, the regular flex might result in higher club head speed. But that doesnt always mean distance, since it doesnt factor in dynamic loft and spin differences.

[jay65]

[quote name='Krt22' timestamp='1394232692' post='8822119']
The LMs pick up head/club speed only.....they dont care what flex the shaft is.

The better wording might be..if the same person swung a regular flex and stiff flex with the same effort, the regular flex might result in higher club head speed. But that doesnt always mean distance, since it doesnt factor in dynamic loft and spin differences.
[/quote]

Quite right! I'm hoping the argument is just a crossed wire or two, on both sides, because surely somebody isn't arguing that somebody swinging the club at 105 with a reg flex, and 105 with a Stiff flex, and all other launch parameters the same, that the Reg flex automatically means more ball speeds and therefore more distance with the reg flex, than the Stiff? Someone please tell me that no-one is actually saying that here, And that I've missed the point?

[Pleasedwith3putts]

[quote name='jay65' timestamp='1394233871' post='8822217']
[quote name='Krt22' timestamp='1394232692' post='8822119']
The LMs pick up head/club speed only.....they dont care what flex the shaft is.

The better wording might be..if the same person swung a regular flex and stiff flex with the same effort, the regular flex might result in higher club head speed. But that doesnt always mean distance, since it doesnt factor in dynamic loft and spin differences.
[/quote]

Quite right! I'm hoping the argument is just a crossed wire or two, on both sides, because surely somebody isn't arguing that somebody swinging the club at 105 with a reg flex, and 105 with a Stiff flex, and all other launch parameters the same, that the Reg flex automatically means more ball speeds and therefore more distance with the reg flex, than the Stiff? Someone please tell me that no-one is actually saying that here, And that I've missed the point?
[/quote]

All the Remax guys use regular flex you know so they don't leave yards on the table..............and left handed shafts always go further than right

The point a certain poster has singly failed to make is how reg and stiff can alter the other launch conditions of angle and spin to impact distance. Now that is something we have all seen.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394231530' post='8822019']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394164487' post='8816711']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394150010' post='8814777']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394148240' post='8814533']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394145548' post='8814267']
[quote name='theothertomjones' timestamp='1394140100' post='8813621']
Um... all other things being equal, a R and S shaft with the same swing and same kick point, the R would hit the ball longer.
[/quote]

Um...no
[/quote]

Um yes. I see the s*** every week.
[/quote]


Then perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining the physics behind this? And please do not start off with "shaft kick" as your opposing hyposthesis....
[/quote]

Weatherman says the polar vortex is drunk and is showering the east coast with severe winter storms in early spring. Does the weatherman give you a physics lesson on barometric pressure systems? No? Why not? Because people are looking outside at the f****** snow, thats why.
[/quote]


Thanks for proving a point...

I can give you plenty of reasons why it doesn't happen, as could tons of fitters, club designers, and physicists, and you can't give me one as to why it would. And I am the one that's wrong? Yah...okay.
[/quote]

So you're the expert and yet you have given the EXACT same number of reasons for the OPPOSITE point of view as he has for his opinion.

NONE.

Thanks for the "help".

[Golfrnut]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394282606' post='8825127']
So you're the expert and yet you have given the EXACT same number of reasons for the OPPOSITE point of view as he has for his opinion.

NONE.

Thanks for the "help".
[/quote]


Hmm...let's see

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the same mass at the same speed, with the same impact conditions produces the exact same result. Or does it?

[SUITS]

[quote name='Sourpuss' timestamp='1315279422' post='3544526']
u could pay me a thousand bucks and there is no way in hell my swing speed in doors is even close to what i swing on the course, i;m sure there is a good explanation but i do not have one...
[/quote]

Im the same way, I get inside one of those lil fitting booths and I am an entirely diff golfer

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='SUITS' timestamp='1394324177' post='8828697']
[quote name='Sourpuss' timestamp='1315279422' post='3544526']
u could pay me a thousand bucks and there is no way in hell my swing speed in doors is even close to what i swing on the course, i;m sure there is a good explanation but i do not have one...
[/quote]

Im the same way, I get inside one of those lil fitting booths and I am an entirely diff golfer
[/quote]

Ditto. I keep thinking Imma break something and have to pay for it.
:shudder:

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394316811' post='8828037']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394282606' post='8825127']
So you're the expert and yet you have given the EXACT same number of reasons for the OPPOSITE point of view as he has for his opinion.

NONE.

Thanks for the "help".
[/quote]


Hmm...let's see

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the same mass at the same speed, with the same impact conditions produces the exact same result. Or does it?
[/quote]

So even though you can "give plenty of reasons", you STILL don't. You just come up with a smartash and disingenuous comment,,,

Seldom a pleasure,,,,,,,,,

[Pleasedwith3putts]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394449618' post='8838263']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394316811' post='8828037']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394282606' post='8825127']
So you're the expert and yet you have given the EXACT same number of reasons for the OPPOSITE point of view as he has for his opinion.

NONE.

Thanks for the "help".
[/quote]


Hmm...let's see

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the same mass at the same speed, with the same impact conditions produces the exact same result. Or does it?
[/quote]

So even though you can "give plenty of reasons", you STILL don't. You just come up with a smartash and disingenuous comment,,,

Seldom a pleasure,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

You are kiddking right?

OK

Newtons law provides that force is mass multiplied by acceleration. If two clubheads the same weight are moving at identical speed and direction at impact they will impart the same force on that object. [i]Now here is the part I keep repeating[/i]

Force is a vector quantity. It has both amount and direction. As has been repeated in this thread countless times, a regular shaft will not go further simply because it has an r on the shaft in the same way that painting it red green or blue will not make a difference. The only way there can possibly be a difference to the end result is if the regular shaft imparts a different (and more positive) [b]directiona[/b]l force on the ball, because of the state of deformation. This has ZERO to do with a regular always being longer and EVERYTHING to do with the shaft being suited to the characetristics of the swing. It may be longer, it may be shorter, which is why all of the knowledgable people here keep referring to no difference with [b]the same impact conditions - [/b]you need to tell Newton he got it wrong if you disagree and get the textbooks re-written.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Pleasedwith3putts' timestamp='1394462254' post='8839267']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394449618' post='8838263']
[quote name='Golfrnut' timestamp='1394316811' post='8828037']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1394282606' post='8825127']
So you're the expert and yet you have given the EXACT same number of reasons for the OPPOSITE point of view as he has for his opinion.

NONE.

Thanks for the "help".
[/quote]


Hmm...let's see

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that the same mass at the same speed, with the same impact conditions produces the exact same result. Or does it?
[/quote]

So even though you can "give plenty of reasons", you STILL don't. You just come up with a smartash and disingenuous comment,,,

Seldom a pleasure,,,,,,,,,
[/quote]

You are kiddking right?

OK

Newtons law provides that force is mass multiplied by acceleration. If two clubheads the same weight are moving at identical speed and direction at impact they will impart the same force on that object. [i]Now here is the part I keep repeating[/i]

Force is a vector quantity. It has both amount and direction. As has been repeated in this thread countless times, a regular shaft will not go further simply because it has an r on the shaft in the same way that painting it red green or blue will not make a difference. [size=5][b]The only way there can possibly be a difference to the end result is if the regular shaft imparts a different (and more positive) directional force on the ball, because of the state of deformation.[/b][/size] This has ZERO to do with a regular always being longer and EVERYTHING to do with the shaft being suited to the characetristics of the swing. It may be longer, it may be shorter, which is why all of the knowledgable people here keep referring to no difference with [b]the same impact conditions - [/b]you need to tell Newton he got it wrong if you disagree and get the textbooks re-written.
[/quote]

Kidding about what exactly ? His non-answers ?

OK, so I GET his (last) statement. Same-same.

MY premise is that 2 6 irons, both SWUNG at say 80 MPH, because of the differing kick in the shaft as it releases will NOT be hitting the ball at the exact same speed. Releasing either too early or 2 late results in a less than ideal speed into the ball and less than ideal contact EVEN THOUGH the shafts are SWUNG at identical speeds.

Else what OTHER reason is there for swinging a Senior, R, S, or X ?

[dangerman77]

Was there a "virtual range" or calculator somewhere online where you could put in swing speed, AoA, club loft, face angle, path angle, etc, and get a carry and roll result along with a diagram of the ball flight? I think it was on trackman's site, and I THINK I initially got the link from WRX somewhere, but I've lost it since.