Sam's guess at Hogan's secret...

[dap]

Well surprise,surprise TeeAce is getting in all sorts of fist fights since leaving WRX to participate in more "professional" forums.

Here is one of his responses at dirters to a poster who doesn't agree with him.....

"No, I really don't understand you. Whatever proof is given, you argue against or get quiet if you don't find anything. I have made lot of videos where we all can see what happens, but I think you don't even watch them. I feel all you want to do is argue just like in WRX."

...and he is dead wrong in this case also.

On the same subject over at BM's,Brian had to close a thread because Tee couldn't stop arguing over an issue where he is utterly and totally wrong as usual.

Great entertainment folks.

Oh and this is not a threadjack.The subject being debated has something to do with supination.LOL

[tembolo1284]

A shame...he should come back here. It's more fun!

[dap]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326893450' post='4104477']
A shame...he should come back here. It's more fun!
[/quote]
He's having too much "fun" over at BM's to come back here.

Here is Brian's latest response to Tee.

"Not interested anymore.

My video was plain as day.


Take the loss like a gentleman and lets move on.


We were just starting to get to REAL answers about the swing again....."

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326909037' post='4106017']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326893450' post='4104477']
A shame...he should come back here. It's more fun!
[/quote]
He's having too much "fun" over at BM's to come back here.

Here is Brian's latest response to Tee.

"Not interested anymore.

My video was plain as day.


Take the loss like a gentleman and lets move on.


We were just starting to get to REAL answers about the swing again....."
[/quote]

that's funny man. Love it!

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326865667' post='4103941']
Well surprise,surprise TeeAce is getting in all sorts of fist fights since leaving WRX to participate in more "professional" forums.

Here is one of his responses at dirters to a poster who doesn't agree with him.....

"No, I really don't understand you. Whatever proof is given, you argue against or get quiet if you don't find anything. I have made lot of videos where we all can see what happens, but I think you don't even watch them. I feel all you want to do is argue just like in WRX."

...and he is dead wrong in this case also.

On the same subject over at BM's,Brian had to close a thread because Tee couldn't stop arguing over an issue where he is utterly and totally wrong as usual.

Great entertainment folks.

Oh and this is not a threadjack.The subject being debated has something to do with supination.LOL
[/quote]

Dap what's the topic? The Calvin Peete topic?

[tembolo1284]

So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.

[dap]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1326965760' post='4115903']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326865667' post='4103941']
Well surprise,surprise TeeAce is getting in all sorts of fist fights since leaving WRX to participate in more "professional" forums.

Here is one of his responses at dirters to a poster who doesn't agree with him.....

"No, I really don't understand you. Whatever proof is given, you argue against or get quiet if you don't find anything. I have made lot of videos where we all can see what happens, but I think you don't even watch them. I feel all you want to do is argue just like in WRX."

...and he is dead wrong in this case also.

On the same subject over at BM's,Brian had to close a thread because Tee couldn't stop arguing over an issue where he is utterly and totally wrong as usual.

Great entertainment folks.

Oh and this is not a threadjack.The subject being debated has something to do with supination.LOL
[/quote]

Dap what's the topic? The Calvin Peete topic?
[/quote]
Yeah the Peete thread.

[dap]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326988340' post='4117525']
So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.
[/quote]
Brian shut down the Calvin Peete thread in the hope to shut Tee up.He re-opened the thread a few days later and Tee couldn't take a hint and kept posting his infamous "demonstrations".

Brian is now deleting his posts.LOL

Over at SITD he's going head to head with a few posters who doesn't agree with him.

The overiding theme everywhere he goes...he can't agree to disagree and debates turn ugly.It was the same in Finnish forums according to someone who knows him that PMed me.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326991018' post='4117893']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326988340' post='4117525']
So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.
[/quote]
Brian shut down the Calvin Peete thread in the hope to shut Tee up.He re-opened the thread a few days later and Tee couldn't take a hint and kept posting his infamous "demonstrations".

Brian is now deleting his posts.LOL

Over at SITD he's going head to head with a few posters who doesn't agree with him.

The overiding theme everywhere he goes...he can't agree to disagree and debates turn ugly.It was the same in Finnish forums according to someone who knows him that PMed me.
[/quote]

Poor fellow.

[tembolo1284]

his demonstrations are very entertaining though.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326991459' post='4117947']
his demonstrations are very entertaining though.
[/quote]

Entertaining they are. I really hoped way back I could learn from him.

[tembolo1284]

I like his little green rooms.

[svsvincenzo]

I hope now he tries my opinions and make demos of each one. I really want to see how it affects others, like a teacher trying out things to students. That sense I hope I'm a teacher. Then when he demos it, I'm really gonna test if it's of universal application or an individual thing. Sorta like having a guneau pig...in a good sense...

[TeeAce]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326991018' post='4117893']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326988340' post='4117525']
So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.
[/quote]
Brian shut down the Calvin Peete thread in the hope to shut Tee up.He re-opened the thread a few days later and Tee couldn't take a hint and kept posting his infamous "demonstrations".

Brian is now deleting his posts.LOL

Over at SITD he's going head to head with a few posters who doesn't agree with him.

The overiding theme everywhere he goes...he can't agree to disagree and debates turn ugly.It was the same in Finnish forums according to someone who knows him that PMed me.
[/quote]

I had to step in when I received some e-mails about these messages and people spreading total lies about me and in my position that could be a case to put it into lawsuit.

BM didn't delete my posts, but Brian's post and my post which was in relation for that. So you better know something about the case before telling it in publicity. I think the reason for deleting was simply because there was another forum mentioned in that posting.

In SITD I got lot of good friends and there was just one or two who were not ready to understand what I said. About same than here and no wonder if we would find them as same persons even.

About finnish forums I got hundreds of really good friends who has came also great friends in real life. There has been two or three who also argues about everything and those members really got no one friend there. So again before spreading more lies, you should really know better.

So that's all from here and no comment needed, I will not start it again here. I took one advice seriously, and it was: "When you talk with an idiot, take care he don't do the same."

[tembolo1284]

TeeAce...nice to have you back.

Been very boring without you here.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327585626' post='4155135']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326991018' post='4117893']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326988340' post='4117525']
So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.
[/quote]
Brian shut down the Calvin Peete thread in the hope to shut Tee up.He re-opened the thread a few days later and Tee couldn't take a hint and kept posting his infamous "demonstrations".

Brian is now deleting his posts.LOL

Over at SITD he's going head to head with a few posters who doesn't agree with him.

The overiding theme everywhere he goes...he can't agree to disagree and debates turn ugly.It was the same in Finnish forums according to someone who knows him that PMed me.
[/quote]

I had to step in when I received some e-mails about these messages and people spreading total lies about me and in my position that could be a case to put it into lawsuit.

BM didn't delete my posts, but Brian's post and my post which was in relation for that. So you better know something about the case before telling it in publicity. I think the reason for deleting was simply because there was another forum mentioned in that posting.

In SITD I got lot of good friends and there was just one or two who were not ready to understand what I said. About same than here and no wonder if we would find them as same persons even.

About finnish forums I got hundreds of really good friends who has came also great friends in real life. There has been two or three who also argues about everything and those members really got no one friend there. So again before spreading more lies, you should really know better.

So that's all from here and no comment needed, I will not start it again here. I took one advice seriously, and it was: "When you talk with an idiot, take care he don't do the same."
[/quote]

What, if I disagree with you here it means I'm not ready to understand you? C'mon...

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327840848' post='4171933']


What, if I disagree with you here it means I'm not ready to understand you? C'mon...
[/quote]

Mechanics, biomechanics, geometry and physiology are not dependent of opinion, they are strict science. You can have opinion about what you think is best to do, but when we all can see what really happens, it goes to science. If I explain you the names of those moves and even make a video and explain those there, and you can't still understand them, I can't help you. You have all the time possibility to show it yourself, but you are not ready to do it. It's totally because you can't prove anything by that.

I know those moves are difficult to see and understand, because they never go alone, but always the pair of movements seems something and we have to really understand what way muscles work there to be able to describe them well enough.

I still don't understand why you quoted my text about lies dap was spreading about me.

My friends are running one forum in Finland and they always say that troublemaker is easy to recognize. He never gives any information about himself and never post any real arguments or evidence when debating. It's usually because they are shamed what they say and how they behave and can't stand in front of people by their own name. I see that a lot and 90% of people don't even answer to those guys even they know the guy is lost. It''s because it only leads to nonsense.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327842367' post='4172027']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327840848' post='4171933']


What, if I disagree with you here it means I'm not ready to understand you? C'mon...
[/quote]

Mechanics, biomechanics, geometry and physiology are not dependent of opinion, they are strict science. You can have opinion about what you think is best to do, but when we all can see what really happens, it goes to science. If I explain you the names of those moves and even make a video and explain those there, and you can't still understand them, I can't help you. You have all the time possibility to show it yourself, but you are not ready to do it. It's totally because you can't prove anything by that.

I know those moves are difficult to see and understand, because they never go alone, but always the pair of movements seems something and we have to really understand what way muscles work there to be able to describe them well enough.

I still don't understand why you quoted my text about lies dap was spreading about me.

My friends are running one forum in Finland and they always say that troublemaker is easy to recognize. He never gives any information about himself and never post any real arguments or evidence when debating. It's usually because they are shamed what they say and how they behave and can't stand in front of people by their own name. I see that a lot and 90% of people don't even answer to those guys even they know the guy is lost. It''s because it only leads to nonsense.
[/quote]

No, still can't agree with you.

What text from you did I post?

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327842666' post='4172055']
[

No, still can't agree with you.

What text from you did I post?
[/quote]

Half of the quote was mine. Didn't you see that?

BTW, there is what Bradley wrote:

"[b]Good golfers keep the clockwise rotation of the forearms coming down[/b]. How they get there is determined 100% by their feel for how they go back to achieve that coming down. Some like a range of motion aspect such as Green. Some get it straight into the zone like Hogan. "

I call it opening of triangle what you can't maybe understand or at least you don't accept, even we all can see it happens and it's kept going on through the impact. Our problem is that you can't accept poofs even they are crystal clear and explained.... because someone wrote something else somewhere.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327844229' post='4172115']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327842666' post='4172055']
[

No, still can't agree with you.

What text from you did I post?
[/quote]

Half of the quote was mine. Didn't you see that?

BTW, there is what Bradley wrote:

"[b]Good golfers keep the clockwise rotation of the forearms coming down[/b]. How they get there is determined 100% by their feel for how they go back to achieve that coming down. Some like a range of motion aspect such as Green. Some get it straight into the zone like Hogan. "

I call it opening of triangle what you can't maybe understand or at least you don't accept, even we all can see it happens and it's kept going on through the impact. Our problem is that you can't accept poofs even they are crystal clear and explained.... because someone wrote something else somewhere.
[/quote]

You said this above in reply to my post:

"I still don't understand why you quoted my text about lies dap was spreading about me. "

What text from you did I quote?

Bradley is saying the cw rotation started during BS is kept or continued in transition/coming down. If you just keep the angles/wristc0ck/right wrist bend, your opening arms triangle is automatically opened (the right elbow remains bent and in).

So why do you have to get that right elbow down and in consciously instead of firing the hips/extensioning/pivoting as hard as you can for max speed? Hogan has no need for it, even when he's old already.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327840848' post='4171933']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327585626' post='4155135']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326991018' post='4117893']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326988340' post='4117525']
So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.
[/quote]
Brian shut down the Calvin Peete thread in the hope to shut Tee up.He re-opened the thread a few days later and Tee couldn't take a hint and kept posting his infamous "demonstrations".

Brian is now deleting his posts.LOL

Over at SITD he's going head to head with a few posters who doesn't agree with him.

The overiding theme everywhere he goes...he can't agree to disagree and debates turn ugly.It was the same in Finnish forums according to someone who knows him that PMed me.
[/quote]

I had to step in when I received some e-mails about these messages and people spreading total lies about me and in my position that could be a case to put it into lawsuit.

BM didn't delete my posts, but Brian's post and my post which was in relation for that. So you better know something about the case before telling it in publicity. I think the reason for deleting was simply because there was another forum mentioned in that posting.

In SITD I got lot of good friends and there was just one or two who were not ready to understand what I said. About same than here and no wonder if we would find them as same persons even.

About finnish forums I got hundreds of really good friends who has came also great friends in real life. There has been two or three who also argues about everything and those members really got no one friend there. So again before spreading more lies, you should really know better.

So that's all from here and no comment needed, I will not start it again here. I took one advice seriously, and it was: "When you talk with an idiot, take care he don't do the same."
[/quote]

What, if I disagree with you here it means I'm not ready to understand you? C'mon...
[/quote]

HG: read this carefully and see who's post is quoted here. There is few, but if you really concentrate you can find it.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327845304' post='4172183']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327840848' post='4171933']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327585626' post='4155135']
[quote name='dap' timestamp='1326991018' post='4117893']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1326988340' post='4117525']
So Brian is just shutting down all threads where TeeAce gets into debates? How about at SITD? Same thing?

Hopefully he'll come back here then.
[/quote]
Brian shut down the Calvin Peete thread in the hope to shut Tee up.He re-opened the thread a few days later and Tee couldn't take a hint and kept posting his infamous "demonstrations".

Brian is now deleting his posts.LOL

Over at SITD he's going head to head with a few posters who doesn't agree with him.

The overiding theme everywhere he goes...he can't agree to disagree and debates turn ugly.It was the same in Finnish forums according to someone who knows him that PMed me.
[/quote]

I had to step in when I received some e-mails about these messages and people spreading total lies about me and in my position that could be a case to put it into lawsuit.

BM didn't delete my posts, but Brian's post and my post which was in relation for that. So you better know something about the case before telling it in publicity. I think the reason for deleting was simply because there was another forum mentioned in that posting.

In SITD I got lot of good friends and there was just one or two who were not ready to understand what I said. About same than here and no wonder if we would find them as same persons even.

About finnish forums I got hundreds of really good friends who has came also great friends in real life. There has been two or three who also argues about everything and those members really got no one friend there. So again before spreading more lies, you should really know better.

So that's all from here and no comment needed, I will not start it again here. I took one advice seriously, and it was: "When you talk with an idiot, take care he don't do the same."
[/quote]

What, if I disagree with you here it means I'm not ready to understand you? C'mon...
[/quote]

HG: read this carefully and see who's post is quoted here. There is few, but if you really concentrate you can find it.
[/quote]

In that post I'm responding to your insinuations that I (me being one of those who disagrees with you) am not ready to understand you. I understand you. I just disagree with you.

[tembolo1284]

Tee Ace what has been the general consensus about this opening of the triangle? Do most people refute/refuse it?

Do they believe it once you show them in slow motion? What's up?

[TeeAce]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1327932602' post='4177739']
Tee Ace what has been the general consensus about this opening of the triangle? Do most people refute/refuse it?

Do they believe it once you show them in slow motion? What's up?
[/quote]

About 50 accepts it right away if one is against.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327954342' post='4179643']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1327932602' post='4177739']
Tee Ace what has been the general consensus about this opening of the triangle? Do most people refute/refuse it?

Do they believe it once you show them in slow motion? What's up?
[/quote]

About 50 accepts it right away if one is against.
[/quote]


seems like everyone is against it here! haha. Where are you guys anyway? Dap, 8i, hogan101....come on chaps...come ooooon back.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1327955465' post='4179751']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327954342' post='4179643']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1327932602' post='4177739']
Tee Ace what has been the general consensus about this opening of the triangle? Do most people refute/refuse it?

Do they believe it once you show them in slow motion? What's up?
[/quote]

About 50 accepts it right away if one is against.
[/quote]


seems like everyone is against it here! haha. Where are you guys anyway? Dap, 8i, hogan101....come on chaps...come ooooon back.
[/quote]

I'm not against it as a factual happening. It does happen. But I disagree with it being a conscious intent.

IMO people needs to consciously/intentionally put the right elbow down and in because their BS and transition throws the angle/c0ck away; hence they have to get the elbow down and in to prevent the clubface from closing too early too fast and the clubhead from being thrown in an out to in path. The intentional down and in move of right elbow prevents those. In the process you lose distance because you are interfering with the CP/CF forces acting on the clubhead. Why would you want that? Instead, why don't you do something in your setup and BS so that when you transition those won't and don't have to happen?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327954342' post='4179643']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1327932602' post='4177739']
Tee Ace what has been the general consensus about this opening of the triangle? Do most people refute/refuse it?

Do they believe it once you show them in slow motion? What's up?
[/quote]

About 50 accepts it right away if one is against.
[/quote]

About 100 doesn't get to play on Tours if one does play in it.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327987978' post='4183125']
[
I'm not against it as a factual happening. It does happen. But I disagree with it being a conscious intent.

IMO people needs to consciously/intentionally put the right elbow down and in because their BS and transition throws the angle/c0ck away; hence they have to get the elbow down and in to prevent the clubface from closing too early too fast and the clubhead from being thrown in an out to in path. The intentional down and in move of right elbow prevents those. In the process you lose distance because you are interfering with the CP/CF forces acting on the clubhead. Why would you want that? Instead, why don't you do something in your setup and BS so that when you transition those won't and don't have to happen?
[/quote]

You seem to have serious lack of experience of teaching different people and understanding the muscular actions and nerve system behind that. I wish it could be that easy like you say. It's not.

The move I'm talking about is something really opposite for most of the people that they have been trying to do all their life in golf. It's natural move in almost any other sports if you are good at them, but still unnatural for many people even when they try to throw a ball. Most of the kids leans it in their early years and it's natural and they feel it's automatic, but that's not for average Joe or specially for girls.

I have seen about 800 swings in 4DSwing analyzes and there is maybe 20-30 who does it even their setup and backswing are decent. I have seen hundreds of videos of tour players, who's bsw is far away from your model, and they do it very well. So where is the money? Why does Jim Furyk do it so well with his bsw, which is as far from Hogan it can be? Why he got his triangle more open than anyone else even he got bsw like that? Why I see hundreds of people trying to do that and those 20-30 can do it in transition, but can't keep it through impact like Furyk, Hogan, Snead, Quiros, Toms and many others? Why are some guys on tour practicing like hell to get it done and still can't get it?

The answer is simply that they are using wrong muscles at transition in upper body and they haven't learn the right way. They try to get it done with same muscles they are use to use, and it will never happen. The "electricity" goes to wrong place because the cables has been connected wrongly at beginning. They should understand that if they want to change it and it's hard work and quite often for tour-players not worth for it. My work is to move those cables and get those people doing that who hasn't learned it by themselves. Some because of wrong information (lot of them there), some for other reasons.

So what you should do is to step out of your own feelings and also my swing, and have more experience about people outside. When some good players write things like this, you should understand that it was conscious change just in that action.

"Well, yesterday was the first day that I really worked on it, as I understood it. After a few hours I kinda got the feel for it and started hitting it great. But lots of things have worked for one day, so I'll have to see what happens

Its a very different feel because the "hit" feels so much later than what I'm used to. I normally get the club in front of me much faster, but with this swing I was trying to keep the club behind me as long as possible. Honestly, its like there is no timing of the release because it "feels" like I'm not even releasing it, it "feels" like my right wrist stays bent the same from top to impact. But there's still timing involved in the swing because its so different feeling. The ballflight was all baby draws, and I wasnt losing any distance, those 6-irons were going 190ish, which is normal.

I obviously have lots to work on but Im gonna stick with it and see what happens "

The big part of that is lack of physical ability. There is muscular weakness and also lot of flexibility problems like I got. I see those people daily and can understand that really well because of my own experience after sitting behind the desk with computer last 7 years destroying my back and shoulder area flexibility totally. Younger guys without those problems just can't understand how big effect it has. It makes it just impossible, because range of motion is so limited that everything feels like violin strings when you try to do it. Everything from ankles to fingers via your whole body. In that case you can do it in slow motion, but never in dynamic situation because it tightens your muscles even more.

Study Kelvins work about micro moves and other articles and then why he's telling us about those things. It's because they have to be learned separately, and none of them is automatic for 99% of people. If it would be other way, there wouldn't be millions of players who can't get it done even when they know it and tries to do it.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1327993583' post='4183419']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1327987978' post='4183125']
[
I'm not against it as a factual happening. It does happen. But I disagree with it being a conscious intent.

IMO people needs to consciously/intentionally put the right elbow down and in because their BS and transition throws the angle/c0ck away; hence they have to get the elbow down and in to prevent the clubface from closing too early too fast and the clubhead from being thrown in an out to in path. The intentional down and in move of right elbow prevents those. In the process you lose distance because you are interfering with the CP/CF forces acting on the clubhead. Why would you want that? Instead, why don't you do something in your setup and BS so that when you transition those won't and don't have to happen?
[/quote]

You seem to have serious lack of experience of teaching different people and understanding the muscular actions and nerve system behind that. I wish it could be that easy like you say. It's not.

The move I'm talking about is something really opposite for most of the people that they have been trying to do all their life in golf. It's natural move in almost any other sports if you are good at them, but still unnatural for many people even when they try to throw a ball. Most of the kids leans it in their early years and it's natural and they feel it's automatic, but that's not for average Joe or specially for girls.

I have seen about 800 swings in 4DSwing analyzes and there is maybe 20-30 who does it even their setup and backswing are decent. I have seen hundreds of videos of tour players, who's bsw is far away from your model, and they do it very well. So where is the money? Why does Jim Furyk do it so well with his bsw, which is as far from Hogan it can be? Why he got his triangle more open than anyone else even he got bsw like that? Why I see hundreds of people trying to do that and those 20-30 can do it in transition, but can't keep it through impact like Furyk, Hogan, Snead, Quiros, Toms and many others? Why are some guys on tour practicing like hell to get it done and still can't get it?

The answer is simply that they are using wrong muscles at transition in upper body and they haven't learn the right way. They try to get it done with same muscles they are use to use, and it will never happen. The "electricity" goes to wrong place because the cables has been connected wrongly at beginning. They should understand that if they want to change it and it's hard work and quite often for tour-players not worth for it. My work is to move those cables and get those people doing that who hasn't learned it by themselves. Some because of wrong information (lot of them there), some for other reasons.

So what you should do is to step out of your own feelings and also my swing, and have more experience about people outside. When some good players write things like this, you should understand that it was conscious change just in that action.

"Well, yesterday was the first day that I really worked on it, as I understood it. After a few hours I kinda got the feel for it and started hitting it great. But lots of things have worked for one day, so I'll have to see what happens

Its a very different feel because the "hit" feels so much later than what I'm used to. I normally get the club in front of me much faster, but with this swing I was trying to keep the club behind me as long as possible. Honestly, its like there is no timing of the release because it "feels" like I'm not even releasing it, it "feels" like my right wrist stays bent the same from top to impact. But there's still timing involved in the swing because its so different feeling. The ballflight was all baby draws, and I wasnt losing any distance, those 6-irons were going 190ish, which is normal.

I obviously have lots to work on but Im gonna stick with it and see what happens "

The big part of that is lack of physical ability. There is muscular weakness and also lot of flexibility problems like I got. I see those people daily and can understand that really well because of my own experience after sitting behind the desk with computer last 7 years destroying my back and shoulder area flexibility totally. Younger guys without those problems just can't understand how big effect it has. It makes it just impossible, because range of motion is so limited that everything feels like violin strings when you try to do it. Everything from ankles to fingers via your whole body. In that case you can do it in slow motion, but never in dynamic situation because it tightens your muscles even more.

Study Kelvins work about micro moves and other articles and then why he's telling us about those things. It's because they have to be learned separately, and none of them is automatic for 99% of people. If it would be other way, there wouldn't be millions of players who can't get it done even when they know it and tries to do it.
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The long sentences you posted above are irrelevant. I'm referring to Hogan, this is the Hogan forum, ain't it?

I'm not saying your method would not work for many. It will. But IMO it is not Hogan. For those seeking the Hogan principles and fundamentals, what you're saying ain't it.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328009273' post='4183679']
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The long sentences you posted above are irrelevant. I'm referring to Hogan, this is the Hogan forum, ain't it?

I'm not saying your method would not work for many. It will. But IMO it is not Hogan. For those seeking the Hogan principles and fundamentals, what you're saying ain't it.
[/quote]

So you claim Hogan has it automatic?

I think you need to read 5L few times more and think why he said: Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing. Think about what really changed from pre secret period to the post secret. Bradley Hughes has one great video about early Hogan and you can see the hand action and right elbow movements are totally different. He was crossing and releasing the club and right elbow popped out because of the rotation of both forearms. That's the move he turned just opposite later and found that baby fade.

He also said that those movements are far away from natural and they have to be learned. It means all of them.

My posting was just right and it makes no difference where we are. People who want to learn Hogan moves has to learn them one by one and triangle opening (ext. rot of the left arm and dropping down the right elbow) is one of the most difficult ones to learn. As you say it happens automatically, why people don't show it to me? Why they all loose that connection at least at impact and 99% of them well before impact? Why they don't have that elbow line pointing right when shoulders pointing left at impact? The main reason for that is modern golf teaching and idea of rolling the face closed by supinating the left forearm. Remember I tell this daily to my new students who listen me eyes wide open, because I show them why there is no need for that and how you can get steady club head and still hit it still as far as before.

The answer is that they naturally use wrong muscles and wrong muscular action, because they don't have an idea how to do it. Then they also don't have physical ability to do it and those both are things that you really need to train a lot to master them.