Sam's guess at Hogan's secret...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328011453' post='4183751']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328009273' post='4183679']
[
The long sentences you posted above are irrelevant. I'm referring to Hogan, this is the Hogan forum, ain't it?

I'm not saying your method would not work for many. It will. But IMO it is not Hogan. For those seeking the Hogan principles and fundamentals, what you're saying ain't it.
[/quote]

So you claim Hogan has it automatic?

I think you need to read 5L few times more and think why he said: Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing. Think about what really changed from pre secret period to the post secret. Bradley Hughes has one great video about early Hogan and you can see the hand action and right elbow movements are totally different. He was crossing and releasing the club and right elbow popped out because of the rotation of both forearms. That's the move he turned just opposite later and found that baby fade.

He also said that those movements are far away from natural and they have to be learned. It means all of them.

My posting was just right and it makes no difference where we are. People who want to learn Hogan moves has to learn them one by one and triangle opening (ext. rot of the left arm and dropping down the right elbow) is one of the most difficult ones to learn. As you say it happens automatically, why people don't show it to me? Why they all loose that connection at least at impact and 99% of them well before impact? Why they don't have that elbow line pointing right when shoulders pointing left at impact? The main reason for that is modern golf teaching and idea of rolling the face closed by supinating the left forearm. Remember I tell this daily to my new students who listen me eyes wide open, because I show them why there is no need for that and how you can get steady club head and still hit it still as far as before.

The answer is that they naturally use wrong muscles and wrong muscular action, because they don't have an idea how to do it. Then they also don't have physical ability to do it and those both are things that you really need to train a lot to master them.
[/quote]

Yes, the what you call open arms triangle and right elbow down are pretty much automatic in transition. But that's if your BS pivot and hands movements are Hogan as well. If you look at Hogan on top, you'll pretty much figure out why he said he forgets about his hands, arms and shoulders and just turns his hips rotary-laterally and the free ride of h/a/s going down just happens. They're pointed there already. You just need firing of hips and gravity.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328012799' post='4183823']
[

Yes, the what you call open arms triangle and right elbow down are pretty much automatic in transition. But that's if your BS pivot and hands movements are Hogan as well. If you look at Hogan on top, you'll pretty much figure out why he said he forgets about his hands, arms and shoulders and just turns his hips rotary-laterally and the free ride of h/a/s going down just happens. They're pointed there already. You just need firing of hips and gravity.
[/quote]

So how the heck Furyk can do it about best in the world?

I think there is no meaning to continue this with you. And as we seem to be only ones here, I let you alone and go away again. There is no evidence you will accept, even about all others do.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328015063' post='4183913']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328012799' post='4183823']
[

Yes, the what you call open arms triangle and right elbow down are pretty much automatic in transition. But that's if your BS pivot and hands movements are Hogan as well. If you look at Hogan on top, you'll pretty much figure out why he said he forgets about his hands, arms and shoulders and just turns his hips rotary-laterally and the free ride of h/a/s going down just happens. They're pointed there already. You just need firing of hips and gravity.
[/quote]

So how the heck Furyk can do it about best in the world?

I think there is no meaning to continue this with you. And as we seem to be only ones here, I let you alone and go away again. There is no evidence you will accept, even about all others do.
[/quote]

No, I disagree. I'm not a blind dog.

Furyk is different. He has to consciously do that right elbow down and in move BECAUSE his hands are so high on top. With his ball on the closer side to his pelvis/feet, he has to do that conscious thing in a more exaggerated manner because of said high hands and ball close to him.

Why would you make him a model and comparison for Hogan? Furyk is 6'3", but hits his driver Not in the same range distance-wise with guys of same height.

But yeah, he's accurate. And IMO that's because he's got one of the more perpendicularish left arm-shaft angle at his height. Low hands. Hands close to his pelvis. Closer to ball.

Got it?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328015063' post='4183913']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328012799' post='4183823']
[

Yes, the what you call open arms triangle and right elbow down are pretty much automatic in transition. But that's if your BS pivot and hands movements are Hogan as well. If you look at Hogan on top, you'll pretty much figure out why he said he forgets about his hands, arms and shoulders and just turns his hips rotary-laterally and the free ride of h/a/s going down just happens. They're pointed there already. You just need firing of hips and gravity.
[/quote]

So how the heck Furyk can do it about best in the world?

I think there is no meaning to continue this with you. And as we seem to be only ones here, I let you alone and go away again. There is no evidence you will accept, even about all others do.
[/quote]

Do you even understand what I'm saying in my above post Tapio? Because you didn't even delve into the substance of it. You even cited Furyk, which is so far from what I'm saying. Tapio?

[tembolo1284]

Happy to see discussion again chaps.

I don't think Hogan's move is automatic though. It may be as close to automatic as it can be for him after a point..but remember that dude was practicing 8 odd hours a day every day for who knows how many years. If you can get the setup angles right and the pivot right...then you can begin to scratch the surface. But remember also how flat and stiff his clubs were. You have to have quite the dynamic move through the ball to be able to hit clubs similar to his without hitting it like crap.


Def something hard for the average bloke to do.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328019692' post='4184197']
Happy to see discussion again chaps.

I don't think Hogan's move is automatic though. It may be as close to automatic as it can be for him after a point..but remember that dude was practicing 8 odd hours a day every day for who knows how many years. If you can get the setup angles right and the pivot right...then you can begin to scratch the surface. But remember also how flat and stiff his clubs were. You have to have quite the dynamic move through the ball to be able to hit clubs similar to his without hitting it like crap.


Def something hard for the average bloke to do.
[/quote]


Quite much everything is explained here

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ3Gb0Ui12Q&feature=player_embedded[/media]

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328019692' post='4184197']
Happy to see discussion again chaps.

I don't think Hogan's move is automatic though. It may be as close to automatic as it can be for him after a point..but remember that dude was practicing 8 odd hours a day every day for who knows how many years. If you can get the setup angles right and the pivot right...then you can begin to scratch the surface. But remember also how flat and stiff his clubs were. You have to have quite the dynamic move through the ball to be able to hit clubs similar to his without hitting it like crap.


Def something hard for the average bloke to do.
[/quote]

I agree 100%.

[tembolo1284]

so if TeeAce agrees with me and Hogan101 agrees with me...why don't TeeAce and Hogan101 agree with each other?

Haha...a logic blackhole! *suction noise*

[eightiron]

I muted that , just watched a reverse shift tgm performed much like a leadbetter concept with the shift down to elbow plane , unfortunately hogan uses a double shift tgm or morad call a reverse loop shift , misses the real guts of hogans cog shifts , counter fall . The arms thing was if performed on the elbow plane a vertical hinge motion , handy for bunker shots and soft sliders

[tembolo1284]

I'm a fan of soft sliders.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1328023925' post='4184563']
[b]I muted that[/b] , just watched a reverse shift tgm performed much like a leadbetter concept with the shift down to elbow plane , unfortunately hogan uses a double shift tgm or morad call a reverse loop shift , misses the real guts of hogans cog shifts , counter fall . The arms thing was if performed on the elbow plane a vertical hinge motion , handy for bunker shots and soft sliders
[/quote]

Didn't want to hear the explanations. Thats too bad. It's like reading only each 5th page from the book.

And yes, because there was no dynamics included, I can't make that loop happen. But it was more to point out the intention and that you could get if you listen also.

[TeeAce]

 

 

But yeah, he's accurate. And IMO that's because he's got one of the more perpendicularish left arm-shaft angle at his height. Low hands. Hands close to his pelvis. Closer to ball.

 

Got it?

 

I agree that and told you times ago I like that style of swing specially in some shots. But we are in Hogan forum aren't we? It means parallel left arm to the shaft.

 

[eightiron]

Ran that up a flagpole 15 years ago , don't need to hear explanations , ain't gonna sniff hogan doing that . That's my opinion and I will stick with it . He is way beyond that . You need to get at the altar of mac o Grady , bow down to him and grovel so he can educate you on a number of interesting things.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328019864' post='4184209']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328019692' post='4184197']
Happy to see discussion again chaps.

I don't think Hogan's move is automatic though. It may be as close to automatic as it can be for him after a point..but remember that dude was practicing 8 odd hours a day every day for who knows how many years. If you can get the setup angles right and the pivot right...then you can begin to scratch the surface. But remember also how flat and stiff his clubs were. You have to have quite the dynamic move through the ball to be able to hit clubs similar to his without hitting it like crap.


Def something hard for the average bloke to do.
[/quote]


Quite much everything is explained here

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ3Gb0Ui12Q&feature=player_embedded[/media]
[/quote]

You have to do what you're saying because your pivot or torso is turning in a too flat plane, while your arms are swinging in a too upright plane relative to the pivot. And your hands are too high for the club that you are using. Let me guess, your club isn't Hogan flat even accounting for your height. Your grip...the grip of the club is too diagonal over your left hand. Make it more across your left hand. Put your hands lower, so you should bend more at your waist, not hips, and look down on the ball more. I assure you, you won't need any of those "opening the clubface moves" because now you want to hit the hell out of the ball to avoid the rights. Yeah, rights.

But I know, what do i know, you don't understand any of these sh1ts.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328023424' post='4184515']
so if TeeAce agrees with me and Hogan101 agrees with me...why don't TeeAce and Hogan101 agree with each other?

Haha...a logic blackhole! *suction noise*
[/quote]

Lol...you know what I mean...

The DS is too fast, IMO the only thing you've got to do is fire the hips in transition then give it all you've got. Got that from Hogan himself. I believe him.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1328025442' post='4184665']
Ran that up a flagpole 15 years ago , don't need to hear explanations , ain't gonna sniff hogan doing that . That's my opinion and I will stick with it . He is way beyond that . You need to get at the altar of mac o Grady , bow down to him and grovel so he can educate you on a number of interesting things.
[/quote]

Dammit...I'm here siding with you all these time and you offer that to Teeace...lol...

By the way...define "bow down" and "grovel"...lmao

[svsvincenzo]

 

 

But yeah, he's accurate. And IMO that's because he's got one of the more perpendicularish left arm-shaft angle at his height. Low hands. Hands close to his pelvis. Closer to ball.

 

Got it?

 

I agree that and told you times ago I like that style of swing specially in some shots. But we are in Hogan forum aren't we? It means parallel left arm to the shaft.

 

 

You made that conclusion in that camera angle? That's halfway between face-on and DTL. So that effectively eliminates, visually, half of the amount of his perpendicularish left arm-shaft angle. I thought you're an expert on 2D illusions Tapio?

[TeeAce]

 

 

But yeah, he's accurate. And IMO that's because he's got one of the more perpendicularish left arm-shaft angle at his height. Low hands. Hands close to his pelvis. Closer to ball.

 

Got it?

 

I agree that and told you times ago I like that style of swing specially in some shots. But we are in Hogan forum aren't we? It means parallel left arm to the shaft.

 

 

You made that conclusion in that camera angle? That's halfway between face-on and DTL. So that effectively eliminates, visually, half of the amount of his perpendicularish left arm-shaft angle. I thought you're an expert on 2D illusions Tapio?

 

Yes I am and by that able to read those things from body situations.

 

But it's really enough for me again. I tried, but one over minded kid just don't need to listen, because he knows everything and other wants to see from pictures only what satisfies his theory. And others are already gone to somewhere else, so have fun just two of you.

 

Tembolo, I wish we meet somewhere else.

[TeeAce]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328026798' post='4184781']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328023424' post='4184515']
so if TeeAce agrees with me and Hogan101 agrees with me...why don't TeeAce and Hogan101 agree with each other?

Haha...a logic blackhole! *suction noise*
[/quote]

Lol...you know what I mean...

The DS is too fast, IMO the only thing you've got to do is fire the hips in transition then give it all you've got. Got that from Hogan himself. I believe him.
[/quote]

Yep... even he didn't do it like that himself. Festus posted great photos in SITD about that. Yep, but you are not interested about photos, only words. You are quite a pair with 8iron. One doesn't like the words and one is not willing to see photos

[tembolo1284]

Everyone play nice!

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328034164' post='4185523']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328026798' post='4184781']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328023424' post='4184515']
so if TeeAce agrees with me and Hogan101 agrees with me...why don't TeeAce and Hogan101 agree with each other?

Haha...a logic blackhole! *suction noise*
[/quote]

Lol...you know what I mean...

The DS is too fast, IMO the only thing you've got to do is fire the hips in transition then give it all you've got. Got that from Hogan himself. I believe him.
[/quote]

Yep... even he didn't do it like that himself. Festus posted great photos in SITD about that. Yep, but you are not interested about photos, only words. You are quite a pair with 8iron. One doesn't like the words and one is not willing to see photos
[/quote]

Yes he does. It's just that nobody tells you it is because they don't have the time and sense if humour to try telling and explaining it to you...

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328054837' post='4187727']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328034164' post='4185523']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328026798' post='4184781']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328023424' post='4184515']
so if TeeAce agrees with me and Hogan101 agrees with me...why don't TeeAce and Hogan101 agree with each other?

Haha...a logic blackhole! *suction noise*
[/quote]

Lol...you know what I mean...

The DS is too fast, IMO the only thing you've got to do is fire the hips in transition then give it all you've got. Got that from Hogan himself. I believe him.
[/quote]

Yep... even he didn't do it like that himself. Festus posted great photos in SITD about that. Yep, but you are not interested about photos, only words. You are quite a pair with 8iron. One doesn't like the words and one is not willing to see photos
[/quote]

Yes he does. It's just that nobody tells you it is because they don't have the time and sense if humour to try telling and explaining it to you...
[/quote]

You believe everything that is written in 5L is what Hogan did Hogan101? Uh-oh...

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328193453' post='4196843']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328054837' post='4187727']
[quote name='TeeAce' timestamp='1328034164' post='4185523']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1328026798' post='4184781']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328023424' post='4184515']
so if TeeAce agrees with me and Hogan101 agrees with me...why don't TeeAce and Hogan101 agree with each other?

Haha...a logic blackhole! *suction noise*
[/quote]

Lol...you know what I mean...

The DS is too fast, IMO the only thing you've got to do is fire the hips in transition then give it all you've got. Got that from Hogan himself. I believe him.
[/quote]

Yep... even he didn't do it like that himself. Festus posted great photos in SITD about that. Yep, but you are not interested about photos, only words. You are quite a pair with 8iron. One doesn't like the words and one is not willing to see photos
[/quote]

Yes he does. It's just that nobody tells you it is because they don't have the time and sense if humour to try telling and explaining it to you...
[/quote]

You believe everything that is written in 5L is what Hogan did Hogan101? Uh-oh...
[/quote]

Yes, I do. You have a contrary opinion it seems. Care to discuss?

[tembolo1284]

Just 2 quick things off the top of my head. He says to put your right foot perpendicular to the line of flight. He doesn't do this.
He has the famous image of your arms straight and as close together as possible...like in that cocoon thing. He doesn't do that either...he relaxes both arms at address and it's quite noticeable how bent and relaxed his arms are.

Do a search. 3-4 guys break down what he does and what he says he does in the 5L book in a thread. Amazing how many diffs there are. Maybe other chaps can chime in.

[SwingNV]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328196862' post='4197137']
Just 2 quick things off the top of my head. He says to put your right foot perpendicular to the line of flight. He doesn't do this.
He has the famous image of your arms straight and as close together as possible...like in that cocoon thing. He doesn't do that either...he relaxes both arms at address and it's quite noticeable how bent and relaxed his arms are.

Do a search. 3-4 guys break down what he does and what he says he does in the 5L book in a thread. Amazing how many diffs there are. Maybe other chaps can chime in.
[/quote]


IMO Hogan did keep his arms together like a cocoon. I can't remember what page it's on, but Hogan put in the qualifier that when you set the arms with the pits at the sky, the elbows point at the hips. People never notice that note. When thin people- like myself- put the arms together as close as possible and pits pointing skyward, the elbow actually don't point at the hips, they point inside of that, more towards the navel. In the Sullivan demonstration, Hogan said imagine your elbows are attached to your sides. Try that instead first, then squeeze your elbows together, but don't lose the orientation of the elbows pointing at the hips. This will completely engage your lat muscles, which are important muscles used to lift something heavy. IMO this was Hogan's intention, to get people to use the lats correctly. When you set up this way, the arms will have a slight bend to them and will look more relaxed just as hogan did. I think the image of Hogan's arms wrapped confuses everyone because they try and recreate the image instead of listening to his words.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1328196862' post='4197137']
Just 2 quick things off the top of my head. He says to put your right foot perpendicular to the line of flight. He doesn't do this.
He has the famous image of your arms straight and as close together as possible...like in that cocoon thing. He doesn't do that either...he relaxes both arms at address and it's quite noticeable how bent and relaxed his arms are.

Do a search. 3-4 guys break down what he does and what he says he does in the 5L book in a thread. Amazing how many diffs there are. Maybe other chaps can chime in.
[/quote]

He does keep them together. He presses them in the armpits. Look at his videos in actual competition, not practice. I think in practice he maybe comforting himself, so he relaxes them a bit. Then when the swing is on its way, it seems like he really presses them in his chest, especially the left arm.

But this is practice, and it looks like he's really pressing them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9v53zFP2fE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[svsvincenzo]

On the right foot thing, I think he does it too. It's perpendicular to targetline. He does a forward press, right? He kicks in his right knee during the press. Well, he also very slightly lifts the right heel, probably due to him transferring weight/pressure on his left foot during the forward press. Then, when he does the takeaway, he replanted that right heel, now inline with the ball of that foot. It just looks like its turned because of parallax. Remember when you watch golf on tv and the ball looks like its pushed way right? Plus, he pulls the right foot back always; with the ball on the left heel, it looks like the right foot is turned.

[dap]

Here is another excellent video demonstration of supination from TeeAce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psYgWbnQuh4&feature=youtu.be

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='dap' timestamp='1333329098' post='4626931']
Here is another excellent video demonstration of supination from TeeAce.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psYgWbnQuh4&feature=youtu.be
[/quote]


ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL!!!!!!!!! Can't type ROFL enough!!! ROFL!

[ej002]

April fools huh?