Sam's guess at Hogan's secret...

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1336405156' post='4865300']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336404695' post='4865256']
i've tried the arm slinging on a trackman before yes. I get the same speed as body rotation one...but hit it about 80 yards left. Haha.

What's the point?
[/quote]

No. Not JUST arm slinging. You still do what you are doing as you describe it---turn your body as hard/fast as you can. But you ADD or let the clubhead go faster by supinating to let the hinge work most efficiently.

With this, you saying you have same distance? Don't worry about the target. If you worry about getting the ball on the target, you will consciously or subconsciously compensate to "steer" the face and hit the ball towards the target. Just turn as hard as you can with BOTH body and L arm supination thing.

If you still think you will have same distance, I can't believe that Tembs. I hit it on the other side of the range, yeah around 60-80 yards left, but I added around 15 yards on a pitching wedge measuring from where I stand to the spot where the ball carried when I tried it for the first time.
[/quote]

wow....I can see how you'd hit a giant pull or pull hook...and that would go further. I don't know that it would necessarily result in a substantially faster clubhead speed. What's the point though?

[ej002]

To H101 - you aren't using your levers right if you get that much more out of rolling the arms. JMO

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1336413955' post='4866230']
To H101 - you aren't using your levers right if you get that much more out of rolling the arms. JMO
[/quote]


Yap...Agree with this.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336413617' post='4866206']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1336405156' post='4865300']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336404695' post='4865256']
i've tried the arm slinging on a trackman before yes. I get the same speed as body rotation one...but hit it about 80 yards left. Haha.

What's the point?
[/quote]

No. Not JUST arm slinging. You still do what you are doing as you describe it---turn your body as hard/fast as you can. But you ADD or let the clubhead go faster by supinating to let the hinge work most efficiently.

With this, you saying you have same distance? Don't worry about the target. If you worry about getting the ball on the target, you will consciously or subconsciously compensate to "steer" the face and hit the ball towards the target. Just turn as hard as you can with BOTH body and L arm supination thing.

If you still think you will have same distance, I can't believe that Tembs. I hit it on the other side of the range, yeah around 60-80 yards left, but I added around 15 yards on a pitching wedge measuring from where I stand to the spot where the ball carried when I tried it for the first time.
[/quote]

wow....I can see how you'd hit a giant pull or pull hook...and that would go further. I don't know that it would necessarily result in a substantially faster clubhead speed. What's the point though?
[/quote]

Point is you hit the ball farther because the hinges are working in the most efficient way. Now, you got most distance for a given power input. Only problem is, the direction. This can be easily managed...

So, how would you suggest we straighten up the ball flight without monkey wrenching the pivot and hinges? I mean without changing the hinges' movements at all as per above?

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1336414528' post='4866278']
Point is you hit the ball farther because the hinges are working in the most efficient way. Now, you got most distance for a given power input. Only problem is, the direction. This can be easily managed...

So, how would you suggest we straighten up the ball flight without monkey wrenching the pivot and hinges? I mean without changing the hinges' movements at all as per above?
[/quote]

aim right and/or flatten the daylights out of the clubs. Like 10 degrees. A weaker grip might help too.

[tembolo1284]

so how do we control it and not have the ball go miles left without any independent arm and hand rolling action?

Where's Tee Ace dammit?

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336422065' post='4867154']
so how do we control it and not have the ball go miles left without any independent arm and hand rolling action?

Where's Tee Ace dammit?
[/quote]


No Tembs. Teeace's reverse rotation move of the L forearm/wrist and the R elbow intentional pulling down and in will monkey wrench the hinge motions. So its a power drain.

[tembolo1284]

so where's everyone else? Still don't see what hogangolf's arm flinging has to do with what tee ace is saying.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336487879' post='4871850']
so where's everyone else? Still don't see what hogangolf's arm flinging has to do with what tee ace is saying.
[/quote]

Tembolo, I am not saying arm flinging. I am saying #4 AND #3. BOTH. You consciously think about releasing both #4 and #3. Then manage the lefts with the pivot, not with the arms and/or hands.

Wait a minute...we've been mumbling about our opinions here...you just watch...what's your thinking Tembolo? C'mon, open up...

[eightiron]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336414151' post='4866246']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1336413955' post='4866230']
To H101 - you aren't using your levers right if you get that much more out of rolling the arms. JMO
[/quote]


Yap...Agree with this.
[/quote]

really , lol, its about not disrupting the #3 accum, its strange such a simple thing is misinterpreted, as for the junk of deliberately trying to add / keep #3 intact with a reverse crop circle move so aptly described by Footwedge , just a bunch of pure junk for guys who have no clue how to hit it under the gun

[eightiron]

never seen a bigger piece of junk than that rubbish swing portrayed by the teeace napoleon

[tembolo1284]

eightiron you are awesome!

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1336495475' post='4872760']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336487879' post='4871850']
so where's everyone else? Still don't see what hogangolf's arm flinging has to do with what tee ace is saying.
[/quote]

Tembolo, I am not saying arm flinging. I am saying #4 AND #3. BOTH. You consciously think about releasing both #4 and #3. Then manage the lefts with the pivot, not with the arms and/or hands.

Wait a minute...we've been mumbling about our opinions here...you just watch...what's your thinking Tembolo? C'mon, open up...
[/quote]


I don't know what I think...still trying to figure out what Tee Ace has been saying!

That's why it seems to me what you are saying is opposite of what Tee Ace is saying....so i'm really confused with what he's saying now.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336496912' post='4872962']
[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1336495475' post='4872760']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336487879' post='4871850']
so where's everyone else? Still don't see what hogangolf's arm flinging has to do with what tee ace is saying.
[/quote]

Tembolo, I am not saying arm flinging. I am saying #4 AND #3. BOTH. You consciously think about releasing both #4 and #3. Then manage the lefts with the pivot, not with the arms and/or hands.

Wait a minute...we've been mumbling about our opinions here...you just watch...what's your thinking Tembolo? C'mon, open up...
[/quote]


I don't know what I think...[b]still trying to figure out what Tee Ace has been saying![/b]

That's why it seems to me what you are saying is opposite of what Tee Ace is saying....so i'm really confused with what he's saying now.
[/quote]

T is describing a "hold-off" move in order to cut the ball, HG is describing how to cut the ball with a full release.

[tembolo1284]

with hogangolf I thought we agreed his method would result in fast speed but the ball would go a mile left. Maybe 2 miles.

[ej002]

[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1336496230' post='4872862']
really , lol, its about not disrupting the #3 accum, its strange such a simple thing is misinterpreted, as for the junk of deliberately trying to add / keep #3 intact with a reverse crop circle move so aptly described by Footwedge , just a bunch of pure junk for guys who have no clue how to hit it under the gun
[/quote]

What do you guys call #3 again, doesn't 3 have 3 interpretations?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498024' post='4873118']T is describing a "hold-off" move in order to cut the ball, HG is describing how to cut the ball with a full release.
[/quote]

You mean active release.

[tembolo1284]

No Tee Ace eh? Sad.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1336498779' post='4873202']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1336496230' post='4872862']
really , lol, its about not disrupting the #3 accum, its strange such a simple thing is misinterpreted, as for the junk of deliberately trying to add / keep #3 intact with a reverse crop circle move so aptly described by Footwedge , just a bunch of pure junk for guys who have no clue how to hit it under the gun
[/quote]

What do you guys call #3 again, doesn't 3 have 3 interpretations?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498024' post='4873118']T is describing a "hold-off" move in order to cut the ball, HG is describing how to cut the ball with a full release.
[/quote]

You mean active release.
[/quote]


yap, active and handsy release.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1336498779' post='4873202']
[quote name='eightiron' timestamp='1336496230' post='4872862']
really , lol, its about not disrupting the #3 accum, its strange such a simple thing is misinterpreted, as for the junk of deliberately trying to add / keep #3 intact with a reverse crop circle move so aptly described by Footwedge , just a bunch of pure junk for guys who have no clue how to hit it under the gun
[/quote]

What do you guys call #3 again, doesn't 3 have 3 interpretations?

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498024' post='4873118']T is describing a "hold-off" move in order to cut the ball, HG is describing how to cut the ball with a full release.
[/quote]

You mean [b]active release[/b].
[/quote]

No, I'm talking about the natural [b]half roll[/b] of the left wrist, which will occur if you don't inhibit it - Angled Hinging. Together with a full uncocking of the left wrist. An [b]active release[/b] would be an [b]intentional full roll[/b] of the left wrist - Horizontal Hinging, together with a full uncocking of the left wrist.

What T is pushing is an [b]intentional inhibition[/b] of the naturally occurring half roll of Angled Hinging, called [b]Vertical Hinging[/b] in TGM. This is done by forcing the right arm to stay under the left through impact, or what T calls, "keeping the triangle open".

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336498210' post='4873134']
with hogangolf I thought we agreed his method would result in fast speed but the ball would go a mile left. Maybe 2 miles.
[/quote]

Read my posts again Tembolo. I was describing how to max out power by freely using or letting the hinges work efficiently to make the most out of your given input. You gotta let or make the hinges work to its fullest. That is what eightiron is saying---not disrupting #3. That is why I said don't worry about direction or the target first. Just measure the distance from where you are standing to where the ball carries. Hit it hard with #4 and #3 by dual horizontal hinging. In short, turn farking hard both your torso and roll your L arm/forearm/hand.

Then, YOU REMEDY THE LEFTS (or what you call miles left..) by tweaking the body pivot. So, you max out the hinges and #3, you get distance, then you also achieve accuracy with a "tweaked pivot".

READ EVERY WORD I POST AND UNDERSTAND THEM. Very important...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336498024' post='4873118']

T is describing a "hold-off" move in order to cut the ball, HG is describing how to cut the ball with a full release.
[/quote]

Eksakto empunto! lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336509769' post='4874598']

yap, active and handsy release.
[/quote]

That is misleading. It should be clarified. It is a PIVOT RELEASE, WITHOUT ANY HOLDING OFF OF THE HINGES (L shoulder, L elbow, L wrist). So, again, for the nth time Tembolo, just for you...you TURN/PIVOT HARD and AT THE SAME TIME ROLL your whole L ARM from shoulder to wrist. Period. You straighten the ball, and baby fade it, with the pivot as well.

Now, if you can't figure it out, and even if you did you can't do it, it doesn't mean its a handsy release...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1336516839' post='4875290']

No, I'm talking about the natural [b]half roll[/b] of the left wrist, which will occur if you don't inhibit it - Angled Hinging. Together with a full uncocking of the left wrist. An [b]active release[/b] would be an [b]intentional full roll[/b] of the left wrist - Horizontal Hinging, together with a full uncocking of the left wrist.

What T is pushing is an [b]intentional inhibition[/b] of the naturally occurring half roll of Angled Hinging, called [b]Vertical Hinging[/b] in TGM. This is done by forcing the right arm to stay under the left through impact, or what T calls, "keeping the triangle open".
[/quote]

IMO, intent is dual horizontal hinge MJ. Though what actually happens on the L wrist and clubface is angle hinge. That DHH intent can really be limited by tweaking the pivot you know...and something else... For Tembolo...note that I said "limited by tweaking" the pivot...not "limited by the pivot" itself...lol

In Teeace's case, his L wrist will for sure full roll so much even if he doesn't do anything to encourage it...that's why he has to vertical hinge intent it...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='hogangolf101' timestamp='1336521988' post='4875794']
[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336498210' post='4873134']
with hogangolf I thought we agreed his method would result in fast speed but the ball would go a mile left. Maybe 2 miles.
[/quote]

Read my posts again Tembolo. I was describing how to max out power by freely using or letting the hinges work efficiently to make the most out of your given input. You gotta let or make the hinges work to its fullest. That is what eightiron is saying---not disrupting #3. That is why I said don't worry about direction or the target first. Just measure the distance from where you are standing to where the ball carries. Hit it hard with #4 and #3 by dual horizontal hinging. In short, turn farking hard both your torso and roll your L arm/forearm/hand.

Then, YOU REMEDY THE LEFTS (or what you call miles left..) by tweaking the body pivot. So, you max out the hinges and #3, you get distance, then you also achieve accuracy with a "tweaked pivot".

READ EVERY WORD I POST AND UNDERSTAND THEM. Very important...lol
[/quote]

So tambiolo...how do you remedy the lefts?

I knew it...nobody will figure it out...lol

[tembolo1284]

I'm re-reading all your posts and will get back to you when I become insane enough to agree that a full on pivot and a full on arm fling will work LOL. Only kiddin'

[tembolo1284]

Bah! I still think you can't have a full bore mainly body pivot driven swing and also have a full bore arm fling uncocking motion. The moment I start to try to do anything conscious with my arms and hands....my pivot won't be at its optimum.

[tembolo1284]

hogangolf i'm imagining you having a seizure on the downswing trying to put everything into the ball from the top of the swing. Makes me think of long drive dudes hehe.

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336563931' post='4878474']
Bah! I still think you can't have a full bore mainly body pivot driven swing and also have a full bore arm fling uncocking motion. The moment I start to try to do anything conscious with my arms and hands....my pivot won't be at its optimum.
[/quote]


No....the arm fling is not an unc0cking motion...its a ROLLING motion...got a feeling you had me...lol

Well, if you can't do the full bore body pivot driven swing with ALSO a full bore arm fling ROLLING motion, I guess I'm one lucky sanamagan coz I can do it?...lol...you know, that is the way with us athletic people...lol But no, there's more...there is ALSO a 3rd motion, all at the same time...darn, I'm gifted?

Let me make a suggestion, and I was the only one who figured this out, so listen up Tembolo...when you roll the L arm/elbow/forearm/hand, don't stop turning the body...lol

[svsvincenzo]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1336564007' post='4878476']
hogangolf i'm imagining you having a seizure on the downswing trying to put everything into the ball from the top of the swing. Makes me think of long drive dudes hehe.
[/quote]


Does that mean you can't hit it long now?..

[svsvincenzo]

Wonder why a person who swings with his shoulders as flat as the floor...with arms as high as Jack Nicklaus on top...with his torso on top as upright as guard guarding Buckingham Palace...with his head/face being slapped and hence moved by his L shoulder nearing the top...with his arms and club rotating so fast both in BS and DS til impact that he can't do anything about it except to concoct any formula exactly the opposite of what Hogan said...with finish with the hands so low...with finish with the L elbow almost beside his L hip...with finish with the clubshaft pointing almost at the sky...will claim he has figured out Hogan...ROFL!