Playing Hickory Golf

[jonnygrouville]

Sorry, but, to me, the originals is very much part of the deal. The thrill is in the chase.

I had my first set from a known name and will be adding a couple more from the same source. Nothing matching, but that is part of the fun. Have also added a very lofted putter from my father-in-law which works beautifully from just off the fringe, and another couple of putters from Grouville Senior in the wings (I love my Braid Mills though).

Some clubs work great, some don't. I fiddle about with lead-tape and different grips. For some clubs, I have different swings! Where modern golf is exact yardages with high shapeless dead-straight shots being the order of the day, with my hickories, I could be chosing from four clubs, three different flights and two different swings for the same shot. Haven't tried reproductions, but the people I have played with using them have had much more one-dimensional games. I might get there one day with originals, I might not, but I know I'll enjoy the journey.

[Bella Woods]

Bajadulce:

WITB - nice clubs! I see your a fan of the Diamond Backs..... I have
a really nice Wilson Diamond Back Mid Iron.

I can also vouch for the professionalism of Bob Georgiade (stixnstuff).
I have bought many very nice clubs from him - and know him from the
Society of Hickory Golfers.

[Kirasdad]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1378244405' post='7792633']
Bajadulce:

WITB - nice clubs! I see your a fan of the Diamond Backs..... I have
a really nice Wilson Diamond Back Mid Iron.

I can also vouch for the professionalism of Bob Georgiade (stixnstuff).
I have bought many very nice clubs from him - and know him from the
Society of Hickory Golfers.
[/quote]

+1 on Bob Georgiade. Great guy who has great original stuff, and will describe in detail what you are interested in buying and whether, in his opinion, it's a player or not (and his opinion is very knowledgable). Frankly, he's the only guy on ebay I would trust when it comes to authentic hickories. I bought a driver from him a couple of years ago that has been a really good club for me, and anyone who has played hickory for very long will tell you that a playable wood is very hard to find, especially a driver.

[MikeG]

First time hickory experience here...

Although it's not exactly a golf mecca, I guess Omaha has a pretty good hickory following. Out of curiosity, after Saturday's round I stopped in a golf store that specializes in hickory and other classic clubs. It had what seemed to be a nice selection of hickory clubs, and the owner was cool enough to let me try a few of them off the mat in the store. I was pleasantly surprised with how the clubs performed off the mat at least, and we worked on finding a playable club that was reasonably priced and something I could beat around until winter hits. I ended up buying a George Nicoll NAP "Iron" (I had no idea there was an "Iron" designation for hickory clubs...I've heard/read about most of the other clubs of the time). Very cool club. Smooth face, kind of a darker finish, and an interesting beveled shape near the heel and toe. The owner said it's about a 5 iron equivalent to today's clubs. Swingweight is D1 and it came out to a Soft Regular flex when he measured it on that CPM thing. I wore out google last night trying to find out when it might have been made, and my best guess is approximately 1910 -1915.

The driving range at my home course is horrible, but the one good thing is that a lot of the "range" balls are real balls that are found on the course. I snagged about 12 of them and pulled out the Iron after Sunday's round. I was really surprised at how playable it was. Although I had a tendency to hook it badly on a few shots, I hit several that flew longer and much much higher than I expected. Since the range is poorly marked and runs uphill, I had no idea how far I was actually hitting it.

Last night I took it to a local course/range that has a couple 350-ish yd practice holes. I used Bridgestone E5s for all the shots. Hit 3 from the first tee, 6 from the next, and tried several approach shots from various distances. Again I was surprised at the distance and trajectory. Had a slight tailwind on the first hole and I got about 180-190 carry/roll (thank God for lasers, I would not have believed that). On the next hole, into the wind I got about 170-175 except for one thinned shot that lost about 15 yards distance and another that I hit as solidly as the others, but instead of 170-175, the shot traveled 215. I think the shaft might be a little too soft. The trajectory was like a Project X on steroids...it climbed initially like a PW and just kept going up. I hit the ball pretty high with my DG SLs, but the trajectory/ballflight with the hickory club was bizarre. Just as strange, I hit a few 3/4 and 1/2 shots from 150-100 yds and some of them were gorgeous shots. Stayed low with a slight draw or fade and landed much more softly than I thought they would have.

Bottom line is I might be hooked. It never occurred to me before, but this hickory stuff agrees perfectly with my attitude toward the game. I play more to hit good shots than score, I love game's history, and I really enjoy the variety that playing that club affords. I was giggling like a little kid out there last night while hitting those kind of shots with a club approximately 100 years old. Fortunately (and unfortunately for my wallet) I have pretty good access to a shop that I can slowly build a hickory set from the old stuff and a home course that actually sets up pretty well for that kind of golf.

For those who started out with just a club or two, how did you guys go about building up to a full set gradually? Before I moved out here, I'd play 9 holes after work at my old place with a driver, 3/6/9 irons, SW and putter and enjoyed that a lot. So along those lines I'm thinking something like niblick, mashie, driving iron, spoon (or driver) and a SW of some sort? Any advice?

[Blade Junkie]

MikeG - welcome to the hickory club! Sounds like you are ideally located to get yourself kitted out. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that you hit shots that just make you giggle and smile. Hickory golf does that in a way that modern golf cannot match.

I am also in the process of putting together an original hickory set (I dipped my toe in the hickory world with Tad Moore reproductions last year, which have encouraged me now to start looking at original clubs as well).

Here are a couple of links that I have found quite useful in describing how to put a decent play set together:

[url="https://www.hickorygolfers.com/how-to-build-a-hickory-golf-play-set_5123_ct.aspx"]https://www.hickoryg...et_5123_ct.aspx[/url]

[url="http://www.hickorygolf.com/pages/assemblingscss.html"]http://www.hickorygo...mblingscss.html[/url]


Good hunting!



I am off to Scotland on Friday (tomorrow) to play in the following week's World Hickory Open, and I'm hoping to pick up a few good playable original clubs while I am up there. There's a 15-strong USA contingent coming over, and good representation from many other countries, including players coming all the way from Australia and South Africa.

In the Monday warm-up team event at Monifieth Ashludie I am drawn with a pro that tied for 48th in The Open in 2005. How cool is that! Really looking forward to seeing how he hits the hickories.

Then Tuesday and Wednesday we have 36 holes of Strokeplay at Montrose Medal (established 1562, the 5th oldest course in the world apparently).


Will post some news/pics from the event in due course.

[oldschoolrocker]

MikeG, understand and agree with your attitude about the game. It gives one a freedom to truly appreciate the golf in its simplistic state, akin to the "beginners mind" philosophy in Zen Buddhism, where the process of the shot to be played bears more credence than a number scribed on a card.
Good luck on your quest. I am also beginning to explore the world of hickory. What I feel is a logical step from playing the classic kit of persimmons and vintage blades.

BJ,
Like a cat my curiosity got the best of me and thanks to Google I found the name of your playing partner. Would love to be a fly on your shoulder for that round. Are you saying our Yamkee contingent is "stacked?" Am sure you will present yourself admirably. Looking forward to your forthcoming posts and pics. Be safe on your travels.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='oldschoolrocker' timestamp='1380196532' post='7913117']
Are you saying our Yankee contingent is "stacked?"
[/quote]

You can read a bit more about "Team USA" here --> http://www.hickorygolfers.com/sohg-players-embark-on-international-trial-run_374_a.aspx

Or direct to the pdf link on that page!

http://www.hickorygolfers.com/SiteImages/2013/8/hickory-cup-story.1.pdf


Should be a good event. Many of us are having a practice round at Montrose on Sunday as well.

[bajadulce]

Mike G,
Ya Omaha sounds like it has some great happenings and hickory roots. Gluck in your journey!

OldSchool,
How goes the search for hickory group in your area and your new adventures? Love the beginner golfer and Zen reference/parallel.

BJunkie,
Awesome! Kick a**, gluck, and you're gonna have a blast. So jealous and want to be there!

I do hope this Team USA match/challenge and World Hickory Open is something contested "scratch" and not some handicap event. So be it if ppl finish last etc and 30+ shots out of the lead. I just think these major events should be solely scratch events... including the US Hickory Open. You should have to meet a standard of play like you would for any other real golfing event. i.e. local/regional qualifiers and minimum handicap etc.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='bajadulce' timestamp='1380217478' post='7914827']
BJunkie,
Awesome! Kick a**, gluck, and you're gonna have a blast. So jealous and want to be there!

I do hope this Team USA match/challenge and World Hickory Open is something contested "scratch" and not some handicap event. So be it if ppl finish last etc and 30+ shots out of the lead. I just think these major events should be solely scratch events... including the US Hickory Open. You should have to meet a standard of play like you would for any other real golfing event. i.e. local/regional qualifiers and minimum handicap etc.
[/quote]

Cheers!

The WHO 36 hole strokeplay has two streams, Scratch and Handicap, with prizes in each stream, so all are catered for.

The Team Event is handicap only.

Can't speak for the challenge match (I'm not playing in that) but I would guess that one was handicap, seeing as the USA team range from Scr to 18.


Here is the draw for the 1st Round at Montrose - I counted 13 scratch golfers in a field of 94, and another 14 players between 0 and 5 handicap, so it should be a keenly contested event!

http://www.worldhickoryopen.com/MontroseDay1Draw.pdf

[stixman]

This why I love the Swedish Championships. Unlike the BGCS events in the UK, the Swedish is off the stick end for all categories, 36 holes for the Championship and 18 for the Seniors and Ladies. For my money it is why it has had enduring success and continues to attract very high quality fields. Also it underpins the strong culture of Hickory in that country.
More power to the elbows of the 'Worlds' and events with the same ethos

[bajadulce]

That is a good showing or really capable players! Awesome hope you finish in the top!

Did I read somewhere that the European organizations typcially don't allow reproduction clubs? Is this one of those events that disallows reproductions?

[Bella Woods]

bajadulce:

Most of the scratch handicaps listed on the sheet are professional golfers.

Mike Stevens does post scores - but he is the exception, rather than the norm.
Most professionals that play in hickory events don't post handicap scores - just
like most professionals with modern clubs don't post their scores either.

Some of the guys could actually be scratch or not have a handicap and are forced to
play off scratch as a result.

There are a few plus hickory handicaps around.......

[MikeG]

B Junkie, thanks for the helpful links. I'm looking forward to the hunt. Good luck at the WHO. Sounds like it'll be a blast!

OSR, without going Golf In The Kingdom on you, I will say that the longer I play the game (~20 years as an avid golfer), the more I'm interested in the execution of the shot instead of the result.

Bajadulce, I guess there's some guy here by the name of Randy Jensen who's pretty good from what I hear . And as it turns out a guy I've taken a couple lessons from was his partner in several hickory tourneys. Omaha? Whodathunk?

[Blade Junkie]

Bajadulce, I would say that Hickory Golf, while growing, is still very much a niche in the sport. This event is in its 9th year and from what I can gather this will be the largest field yet. From the scoresheet we seem to have a nice mix of players who will compete for the overall scratch title, and others, like myself off 14.8, who are there for pure enjoyment of the game. The scratch players include at least two players who have played on the European Tour, who I imagine are plus golfers. It will be interesting to see how they score, and how many contend. Last year ended up with a 6-hole play off, with the winner being 1 under for those holes, so the standard is pretty high!

I think organiser Lionel Freedman has this event absolutely right. There is something for everybody to play for, and he doesn't mind whether you use originals or reproductions. The event ethos comes across with emphasis on 'playing hickory golf' and 'growing hickory golf', and the inclusivity of golfers of all levels and both types of equipment is to be applauded in my book.

I applaud all the players who support the event, as it is obviously a commitment of time and money, and particularly from those who travel from overseas. Maybe in 2014 we will see a few more from Golfwrx and be able to field a team from this Forum for the Team competition!

[stixman]

[quote name='bajadulce' timestamp='1380229918' post='7915989']
That is a good showing or really capable players! Awesome hope you finish in the top!

Unlike a typical modern equipment event (even the smallest city run tournament), most of the hickory events I've seen have only a handful of guys capable of winning the overall gross event. "Good" golfers just don't seem interested in hickory golf.... yet!

Mostly it seems 1 or 2 guys stand out above everyone and battle it out for the championship. I notice there are no "plus" handicaps listed? Wonder if the "scr" golfers are represented as being zero or better? Or perhaps they just don't have a handicap and are required to play to a zero? I notice for instance SoHG Mike Stevens listed as "scr" and yet on the SoHG handicap page is listed as 4.4 index?

Only 25ish golfers under 5 handicap for an event of this magnitude still seems a bit shocking to me. Especially the region as to where this is hosted. But I guess I don't know hickory golf well enough or am just delusional... slaps self to wake up!

Did I read somewhere that the European organizations typcially don't allow reproduction clubs? Is this one of those events that disallows reproductions?
[/quote]

British Golf Collectors and Swedish events do not permit repro clubs. Earlier posts cover the positions and arguments for and against.

[bajadulce]

MikeG,
Ya Randy Jensen is quite legendary and that region as well. He and Ralph L, who I assume together put the website hickorygolf.com (I'm sure ppl will correct me as they love to do on the internet) was the only information I could find 10 years ago when I was curious about this sport. Someday I'd hope to get my sorry but-t out of California and travel "east" to Nebraska and have a chance to play in that annual event out there as well as meet the guy. Sounds like you're in good hands!

Blade,
That event just sounds so awesome! You've got me pumped up and did some more research on the event and even watched last year's video. That's a talented field right there! Impressive. Looks like THE event for hickory. Just like the Open, the winner should be awarded the title "champion hickory golfer of the year". I applaud the ethos of the event and the commitment by the organizers to include everyone for the sake of the game. Thnx for posting your views and enlightenment on the real meaning behind the event.

Stix,
Ah I found and have now read those responses regarding reproductions. Knew I read that somewhere. That sounds like a really heated topic and could be a thread/topic all its own. Myself, am a bit on the fence. There are positives and negatives for sure.

[stixman]

[quote name='bajadulce' timestamp='1380289766' post='7918919']
MikeG,
Ya Randy Jensen is quite legendary and that region as well. He and Ralph L, who I assume together put the website hickorygolf.com (I'm sure ppl will correct me as they love to do on the internet) was the only information I could find 10 years ago when I was curious about this sport. Someday I'd hope to get my sorry but-t out of California and travel "east" to Nebraska and have a chance to play in that annual event out there as well as meet the guy. Sounds like you're in good hands!

Blade,
That event just sounds so awesome! You've got me pumped up and did some more research on the event and even watched last year's video. That's a talented field right there! Impressive. Looks like THE event for hickory. Just like the Open, the winner should be awarded the title "champion hickory golfer of the year". I applaud the ethos of the event and the commitment by the organizers to include everyone for the sake of the game. Thnx for posting your views and enlightenment on the real meaning behind the event.

Stix,
Ah I found and have now read those responses regarding reproductions. Knew I read that somewhere. That sounds like a really heated topic and could be a thread/topic all its own. Myself, am a bit on the fence. There are positives and negatives for sure.
[/quote]

My opinions re personal preference aren't exactly in the closet. However, like Groucho Marx said , 'Thems my opinions ,and if you don't like 'em......well....I got others! Seriously I like playing and putting together original playing sets, as does Randy Jensen, that's my thing and I have a good reputation for it Events using Repros are fine, I don't believe it is any longer a level playing field. Most contributors to this site believe that to be the case, but don't know what to do about it.

[bajadulce]

It's the morning of Oct 3rd @ the World Hickory Open and they still haven't updated their webpage w/ results of competition. Not even a leaderboard for Day1 or Wednesday's final pairings? They could use a media/website guy for next year (offers services )! Was hoping to browse a few digital scorecards and check out course/hole statistics etc.

Hope Blade did well and look forward to his writeup when he gets back home

[Blade Junkie]

Hi all, will post a fuller account when I am more recovered from the 15 hour drive home through last night.

The WHO 2013 was another fabulous event, with the expected players coming out on top over 36 holes of Strokeplay on the Montrose Medal course, an Open qualifer venue last time the Open was held at Carnoustie, and set up at 6050 yards for the hickory players. The weather for round two can only be described as brutal ! 30-40 mph winds and rain made it "proper Scottish golf". The balls were actually moving in the wind on the greens, making putting in particular very treacherous.

Over 36 holes, ex European Tour player [b]Paolo Quirici[/b] from Switzerland came out on top with 72, 82 for a total score of 154 (+12), 3 shots ahead of England's [b]Andrew Marshall[/b] (also European Tour Pro) who, using borrowed clubs and playing hickory for the first time the day before and with no practice on the course itself, shot 79,78. The 2nd round 78 in that wind was nothing short of incredible. I am told (by his caddie George) that he played the 378 yard 17th hole, direct into the wind, with Jigger off the tee and Jigger approach to 1 foot short of the green, with both shots never more than 4 feet off the ground - awesome improvisation!

I had the privilege of playing 36 holes with Andrew (warm up event at Monifieth Ashludie and R1 at Montrose) , and it was wonderful to see how quickly he adapted to the clubs. He absolutely fell in love with hickory golf and I am sure he will compete in future events. Nice bloke too ! A shame for him, given the winning margin, that his 1st round 79 included two tee shots out of bounds.

Here's a couple of taster pics:

1. Andrew Marshall hitting his Brassie off the tee:

[attachment=1899159:Andrew Marshall Tee Shot.jpg]

2. Me hitting a bunker shot off my knees, which I managed to get out of the bunker to about 15 feet (missed the par putt but who cares !!!)

[attachment=1899153:Bunker Shot Montage.jpg]

Deal Hudson from the USA won the Handicap event with a net 146 playing off a 9 index, no doubt sustained in the elements by the contents of his hip flask and lucky pipe! I managed net 154 (91,93 gross, playng off 15) for 3rd place (out of 94 I think), lamenting the 9 I took on the 18th in the first round (put 2nd shot into right bunker 10 feet from the actual pin, but then took 4 in the bunker, 3 into the face and one out backwards down the fairway) and also the duffed tee shot that meant it took me 5 shots to reach the damn fairway on the 2nd hole of round 2.

My personal highlights, apart from the bunker shot off the knees, were hitting the green in two with Spoon/Mid-Iron on the 475 yard par-5 6th Hole (3 putt par lol) in the second round, and making birdie on SI-1 in the 1st round (Spoon, Jigger, 25ft putt) vs Andrew Marshall's 5. I was chuffed to shoot 93 in that brutal 2nd round, only 4 shots worse than USA's renowned hickory pro Mike Stevens !

I should also add that Aussie_Steeler played a blinder at Ashludie to finish at +2 gross, and Team Australia were on the podium in the Team Event, winning some nice artwork for their trouble! Both Darron and Lachie shot 38 on the back nine in Montrose round 1 - excellent golf from the boys down under, who were great blokes to share a beer with after the golf as well. I hope to play some hickory with them at their home club (Wagga Wagga County Club in NSW) next time I am in Australia.

I believe my bunker fiasco on #18 will be viewable at some point on South African TV, as there was a SA TV guy covering the event, who unfortunately captured that little episode. He refused money to delete the footage lol. Probably end up on YouTube no doubt ...

[stixman]

Great effort, BJ. Thanks for updating us. Look forward to reading the unabridged account.
Now, about Askernish??

[oldschoolrocker]

Thanks BJ. Glad to see you returned safe and sound. Looking forward to more pics and details when you recover from your splendid adventure.

[majic]

Thanks for the great story about the WHO. Lionel is a great guy and does all of this because he loves hickory golf and not for money. His group that helps him is very small and i know as usual they will get out a great report on the event.
Great play yourself my friend. Deal has been on a bit of a roll this year. Playing well.
Now you have to try to make it to the US Hickory Open or in the Fall to Mid Pines in November. Cheers, Tad

[Bella Woods]

Geoff:

Sounds like you had a great time at the WHO. I will be interested to see
how the USA boys did under the circumstances.

I look forward to seeing the full report......

[MikeG]

Thanks to everyone for the wisdom over all 8 pages of this thread. You guys have been extremely helpful....

I've taken the full plunge. My hickory bag so far:
Indestro Brassie 12*
Tom Stewart Driving Mashie 22*
George Nicoll Iron (smooth face) 30*
Hendry and Bishop Mashie 40*
Tom Stewart Mashie Niblick 48*
Walter Hagen Putter

Unquestionably the star of the set is the Driving Mashie. I don't want to curse myself, but it may be in the Parthenon of my all time favorites...right up there with my Mizuno MP 59 3 iron, Bridgestone J33 CB 6 iron, and Top Flite Tour Model (circa '72) 7 iron. From the first swing until the last the club is incredible. Light feeling (although a D2 SW), easy to swing, super sweet contact, not hook prone like a couple of the others. Hit everything from 170 yard knockdowns in chilly, gusty winds to 235 yard (wind assisted) approaches and tee shots. The Stewart Mashie Niblick is also a solid performer. Chipping, pitching and sand shots from good lies are surprisingly easy with that club. Only shot that gives me fits are trying to play it from scruffy/clumpy lies. Really easy to dig that blade a little too early and end up hitting the ball a few inches.

The Mashie gave me fits due to hooking it so badly at first although the weight and stiffness are good. Surprisingly long hitting for its loft and very easy to vary yardages. It finally occurred to me that the grip is too thin and I was flipping it. Easy fix. Might have it flattened a degree or two.

The Brassie has had me muttering four letter words from the get-go. It's a poor fit for me. Too heavy (D5 SW), too soft, very inconsistent. I see another Brassie in my future by next spring. I'm beginning to think finding a good fitting Driver/Brassie will be quite the hunt...as will the search for a good Niblick.

The clubs are an absolute blast to play. I've had as much fun playing them as I have any other club at any other time. Played by myself this afternoon on a relatively empty Omaha city/muni course (thank God for early Husker home games) with temps in the low 50s and the wind blowing 15-20 throughout. Many, many smiles out there. It felt like what golf is meant to be (for me anyway).

Thanks again everyone.

[Bella Woods]

MikeG:

Welcome to the hickory club - looks like your set is well on its way and
you have discovered what a lot of us here have about hickory golf.

You will find a compatible Brassie (or Spoon?) - there are plenty of them around.
It took me some time to find my Lowe & Campbell Brassie - and now it is
indispensable.

Seems like a lot of the "middle" hickory irons have upright lies - especially
the Spade Mashie. I had to flatten the lies of my mashie iron, mashie, jigger
and spade mashie.

Keep us updated on your progress.......

[MikeG]

Will do, Bella. Hopefully I can play one or two hickory outings before winter hits. And thanks for the advice about the "mid" irons.

As far as the woods go, I've always had trouble finding driver/woods that suit me. It's me and my swing...not the club's fault in most cases. I guess hickories are no different in that regard.

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='majic' timestamp='1380839552' post='7949337']
Thanks for the great story about the WHO. Lionel is a great guy and does all of this because he loves hickory golf and not for money. His group that helps him is very small and [b]I know as usual they will get out a great report on the event[/b].
[/quote]


Lionel's WHO 2013 report is now up, and all the scores are posted as well:

Report: http://www.worldhickoryopen.com/

Scores: http://www.worldhickoryopen.com/2013.html (they have been uploaded in Net order)


@MikeG - well done on getting your first play set together! I'd like to get one of those Stewart Driving Mashies for sure ...

[majic]

[quote name='Blade Junkie' timestamp='1381257257' post='7971287']
[quote name='majic' timestamp='1380839552' post='7949337']
Thanks for the great story about the WHO. Lionel is a great guy and does all of this because he loves hickory golf and not for money. His group that helps him is very small and [b]I know as usual they will get out a great report on the event[/b].
[/quote]


Lionel's WHO 2013 report is now up, and all the scores are posted as well:

Report: [url="http://www.worldhickoryopen.com/"]http://www.worldhickoryopen.com/[/url]

Scores: [url="http://www.worldhickoryopen.com/2013.html"]http://www.worldhick...n.com/2013.html[/url] (they have been uploaded in Net order)


@MikeG - well done on getting your first play set together! I'd like to get one of those Stewart Driving Mashies for sure ...
[/quote]
Thanks Geoff. Tad

[Bella Woods]

Geoff:

Thanks for the links and update - I am going to get over there
and play in that very soon - sounds like a lot of fun and great
competition.....

[Blade Junkie]

[quote name='Bella Woods' timestamp='1381279758' post='7973057']
Geoff:

Thanks for the links and update - I am going to get over there
and play in that very soon - sounds like a lot of fun and great
competition.....
[/quote]

Would be great to see you there Wally (and everyone else for that matter!)

Next year's event is over 36 holes of strokeplay at Panmure Golf Club on Tuesday 7th and Wednesday 8th October 2014. (Panmure was where Hogan did all his practice and preparation prior to his 1953 Open win at nearby Carnoustie).