Senior Tour

[j_moo]

Aspiring middle age hacker

Wondering if any low handicappers out there are thinking about working towards the senior tour. Played with a couple of people who claimed to be senior tour players and said it's a pretty good living. Certainly beats 9-5 in the office everyday.

If so, what are you doing to achieve that goal?

[wobgon]

Simple really. All you need to do is get your game to the point you can compete with players like Fred couples. Sounds simple enough to me!

[Buckhornio]

Hardest tour on earth to gain a spot. If I recall correctly, there's only 5 fully exempt spots coming out of the [b]entire[/b] senior tour Q-School, and 7 conditionally exempt spots. Thems must be the slimmest pickens of any Q-School.

[Mainlinegolfer]

[quote name='wobgon' timestamp='1328988200' post='4261487']
Simple really. All you need to do is get your game to the point you can compete with players like Fred couples. Sounds simple enough to me!
[/quote]
What he wrote.

I remember reading a story 15-20 years ago where reportedly a 40-something businessman approached pro Harvey Penick in Austin, TX, said he was a pretty good single-digit golfer, had made all the money he needed, and wanted Penick to help him prepare for the senior tour. Coincidentally, Penick said he knew a couple of other guys who also had made all the money they needed and had the same goal. In fact those gentlemen were in the clubhouse having lunch and Penick offered to introduce them to the businessman. They then walked into the dining room and Penick introduced him to Ben Crenshaw and Tom Kite.

Point made.

[KYMAR]

yeah this topic has crept up a few [s]thousand [/s]times. There are 100 different ways to view the difficulty in achieving the goal. First, the senior tour is probably the most exclusive tour in the world to gain entry into. And i don't even mean carrying any kind of status. I mean getting into a single event. Senior tour Q-school is also painfully difficult to survive. I don't remember the numbers, someone here knows them, but they take very few new guys from q-school compared to any other tour in the world. The ONLY way the champions tour remains a viable business entity is name recognition. The tour Loves Freddy's, Calc's, Nicky price's,B. Langer's and Lehmans of the world. If a +3 trying to qualify gets the feeling they aren't all that welcome, it's likely because that's true.

Now, for someone who thinks they have the game, or the makings of the game. There are a few things to consider.

You need to be a consistent +5 handicap to have any chance. You need that handicap to travel. You need to be able to go on foreign courses, from the back tees (for all the talk about how short the courses are on the champions tour, they are still as long in most cases as the back tees at most public's) and shoot a tidy 66-67 consistently. You also need to be tournament tested. You need to be able to do that with 150 other guys, firing darts and going low all around you trying to kill you. you have to be a great putter. not very good, not really really good. Great.

This book is inevitaly mentioned in threads like this but "paper Tiger" is written by a guy named Tom Coyne who dedicated body, mind and soul and all his cash for a year attempting to get through q-school (regular tour). In the first few pages he writes something i found both enlightening and, as about an 8 myself, very disheartening. it was 3 simple words describing the aspirations of all such dreamers. it puts in perspective just how good ANY golfer on ANY pro tour really is.

"scratch is s**t"

A 40 year old golfer who is scratch has virtually no chance at the senior tour. The odds are better playing the lottery. They are more likely to get hit by lightning than qualify for the Champ. tour.

[FLOGMR]

Trevino wrote a very good article about this very subject a few years ago.....basically he said if you can go to strange golf courses and routinely shoot 65 from the tips.....you MIGHT have a chance!!! But probably not!!!

[j_moo]

I've read an article where Butch Harmon said that if you are not shooting -5 on your home course, you're not that good. The same article also talks about how Sawgrass plays to about a 77 rating and Tim Clark won at -16. That's a 9 shot/round difference to a scratch player. Let's say a senior player is 2-3 strokes/round worse. That makes them around +6-7?

I get it, these guys are good. I'm not talking about winning on the senior tour as Kite or Crenshaw would expect. Rather, just making enough money to stay on the tour. I'm sure there's an obstacle to get over to be on the tour, heck you need a college degree just to get a low paying desk job. I see many in this forum carry + handis and hits it 300+. Wondering if these guys think about playing on the same tour as short hitting Pavin, or JL Lewis, Hallberg, Senior?

The guy I played with who said he's on the senior tour, never ever heard of him. The only thing that let's me believe he's not lying; didn't see him miss a fairway or green all day.

[farmer]

There was a guy in my area who is a very solid player, has qualified as an amateur for the US Open, made matchplay in the US Amateur, won some state titles, all the credentials. Had plenty of money, and as he approached 50 went to play on some low level mini-tours as a tune up for the senior tour. Never made a penny on the mini-tour. Said the kids just ate him up, never got a sniff of the senior tour. Spent a couple of years getting his am status back, and has gone back to dominating local events. As Kymar said, sorry, no chance.

[KYMAR]

Many of the same +3-4's on this site have weighed in on this matter and almost all of them tell you, they thought they could, the tried, they had their asses handed to them. And as far as being a guy who just hangs out on tour, grinds his way to 10-15 top 30 finishes a year, holds firmly on to that tour card for 6 years, throws a couple hundred G's into the bank every year, gets a ton of free gear from Adams and sips hot cider wine with a wife 20 years younger in an Aspen Chalet in the off season, all i can say is, best of luck to you. The grind and the demand to be that guy is as hard as being multi-time winner on that tour. Remember, the guys on top of the money list, and the guys who lose their cards are all probably within a shot or 2 at the most over the course of the year. The disparity between 100 on the money list, and the Shwabb cup winner is far far far smaller, than is the one between the 100th guy, and the 45 year old scratch shooter thinking of making a run at the dream. And again, even if you or anyone else might have the ability to make that happen, just getting that chance has little to do with talent. It's basically a closed door.

[Thrillhouse]

One of my old coaches has been trying the past 5 years or so. he played on the PGA tour for 7 or 8 years back in the day and played on the hogan and nike tours for 3 or 4 years after he fell off the big tour. He never won but did finish second once. He has been to the finals of champions tour q school every year since turning 50 and the best he has done is missing one of the 5 fully exempt spots by 2 shots one year. He is still a good player, and every year at champions tour q school you see guys who have played for a living for a long time but don't have enough of a resume to get status out there automatically. Its pretty rough going.

The other side of this is what the champions tour is. its a nostalgia tour, people like watching price and o meara and john cook play. a few years ago there were quite a few no name guys who came out of pro shops or whatever and the tour was dying. if we forget about the possibility of getting out there for average guys we get into the reality that the champions tour doesn't really want you out there anyway.

[502 to Right]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329024655' post='4264909']
The other side of this is what the champions tour is. its a nostalgia tour, people like watching price and o meara and john cook play. a few years ago there were quite a few no name guys who came out of pro shops or whatever and the tour was dying. if we forget about the possibility of getting out there for average guys we get into the reality that the champions tour doesn't really want you out there anyway.
[/quote]


Agreed. It's called the Champions Tour for a reason. I don't watch the Champions Tour much, but when I do it's to see people like Couples, Price, Kite, Irwin, Watson, Langer and the like. I have no interest in watching Johnny No Name win the Cialis Erectile Dysfunction Open.

[poizster]

[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1329014196' post='4263923']
There was a guy in my area who is a very solid player, has qualified as an amateur for the US Open, made matchplay in the US Amateur, won some state titles, all the credentials. Had plenty of money, and as he approached 50 went to play on some low level mini-tours as a tune up for the senior tour. Never made a penny on the mini-tour. Said the kids just ate him up, never got a sniff of the senior tour. Spent a couple of years getting his am status back, and has gone back to dominating local events. As Kymar said, sorry, no chance.
[/quote]

There is a guy in my area that I play with that is similar. In fact, 4 or 5 summers ago he was ranked 2nd in the nation among senior amateurs. He has won numerous prestigious senior amateur titles both regionally and nationally. Was a traveling tournament tested +3.4 and never even tried for the senior tour knowing that the odds of getting a spot out there are next to impossible. Instead, he continues to beat down College players in regional events as a 61 year old Super Senior. I don't think he's missed a fairway in 4 years.

[ev780]

[quote name='j_moo' timestamp='1328986270' post='4261279']
Wondering if any low handicappers out there are thinking about working towards the senior tour. Played with a couple of people who claimed to be senior tour players and said it's a pretty good living. Certainly beats 9-5 in the office everyday.

If so, what are you doing to achieve that goal?
[/quote]


Go for it dude! Then come back here and stick it to the nay sayers. Of course the odds are long but they even longer if you don't try.

I have only been here a short time but every thread that gets started about going on any pro circuit is always greeted with a chorus of those who say it can't be done. If you want it go to it. I would not however, cash in your retirement chasing the dream. (That is realism not negativity)

[#1Ballin]

competition handicap is far and away from your claimed handicap.

making money for just keeping up is not the right approach ( and pretty dumb) this thread is worthless now.

[#1Ballin]

[quote name='poizster' timestamp='1329025872' post='4264987']
[quote name='farmer' timestamp='1329014196' post='4263923']
There was a guy in my area who is a very solid player, has qualified as an amateur for the US Open, made matchplay in the US Amateur, won some state titles, all the credentials. Had plenty of money, and as he approached 50 went to play on some low level mini-tours as a tune up for the senior tour. Never made a penny on the mini-tour. Said the kids just ate him up, never got a sniff of the senior tour. Spent a couple of years getting his am status back, and has gone back to dominating local events. As Kymar said, sorry, no chance.
[/quote]

There is a guy in my area that I play with that is similar. In fact, 4 or 5 summers ago he was ranked 2nd in the nation among senior amateurs. He has won numerous prestigious senior amateur titles both regionally and nationally. Was a traveling tournament tested +3.4 and never even tried for the senior tour knowing that the odds of getting a spot out there are next to impossible. Instead, he continues to beat down College players in regional events as a 61 year old Super Senior. I don't think he's missed a fairway in 4 years.
[/quote]

This X 1000.

Those kind of players are fun to watch. The play all the state opens, and amateur tournaments..Really fun to watch.

Stick to reality.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1329080042' post='4268861']
Go for it dude! Then come back here and stick it to the nay sayers. Of course the odds are long but they even longer if you don't try.

I have only been here a short time but every thread that gets started about going on any pro circuit is always greeted with a chorus of those who say it can't be done. If you want it go to it. I would not however, cash in your retirement chasing the dream. (That is realism not negativity)
[/quote]

Every turning pro thread also has the "go for it dude!" guy show up. The problem with the "go for it dude!" guy is that he hasn't played professional golf and doesn't have any idea of what it takes to actually do it.

and FWIW not every thread is negative, go look at the threads where the OP is a 19 year old scratch college kid who has a chance to get better and reach the next level, those are pretty positive. The negative ones are the ones where someone says "I am a 14 handicap, I am gonna quit my job and practice every day until I have put in 10,000 hours of focused practice and then I am going to go out on tour and be a zillionaire". Its like the ping commercial, "Im thinking about turning pro", "what about your mortgage?", "one good year thats all taken care of".

In any case the positive guy in the turning pro threads will from hence forth always be known as the "Go for it dude!" guy, so thanks for giving us that!

[ev780]

Glad to be of service. I have really seen very few positive threads but, as I said I am new here.

Look, I am not from the everyone gets a trophy age group. But in math terms you have exactly zero chance if you don't "go for it dude." Some number, however small, above zero if you do. Someday, somewhere a 45 year old 14 hcp is gonna make a Champions Tour cut somehwere. Might as well be you.


I repeat, don't cash in your retirement, but life is too damn short to give up.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1329097583' post='4271533']
Glad to be of service. I have really seen very few positive threads but, as I said I am new here.

Look, I am not from the everyone gets a trophy age group. But in math terms you have exactly zero chance if you don't "go for it dude." Some number, however small, above zero if you do. [b]Someday, somewhere a 45 year old 14 hcp is gonna make a Champions Tour cut somehwere[/b]. Might as well be you.


I repeat, don't cash in your retirement, but life is too damn short to give up.
[/quote]

I rest my case.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1329025654' post='4264977']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329024655' post='4264909']
The other side of this is what the champions tour is. its a nostalgia tour, people like watching price and o meara and john cook play. a few years ago there were quite a few no name guys who came out of pro shops or whatever and the tour was dying. if we forget about the possibility of getting out there for average guys we get into the reality that the champions tour doesn't really want you out there anyway.
[/quote]


Agreed. It's called the Champions Tour for a reason. I don't watch the Champions Tour much, but when I do it's to see people like Couples, Price, Kite, Irwin, Watson, Langer and the like. I have no interest in watching Johnny No Name win the Cialis Erectile Dysfunction Open.
[/quote]

A shame really. This is why our culture is mired in the mediocrity of the familiar.

Give me a Walt Zembriski story any day.

[poizster]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329099915' post='4271869']
[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1329097583' post='4271533']
Glad to be of service. I have really seen very few positive threads but, as I said I am new here.

Look, I am not from the everyone gets a trophy age group. But in math terms you have exactly zero chance if you don't "go for it dude." Some number, however small, above zero if you do. [b]Someday, somewhere a 45 year old 14 hcp is gonna make a Champions Tour cut somehwere[/b]. Might as well be you.


I repeat, don't cash in your retirement, but life is too damn short to give up.
[/quote]

I rest my case.
[/quote]

Maybe he's indirectly referring to NASA's Keplar mission where they have newly discovered over 1,000 planets in the ever important habitable zone, making it all the more probable that parellel universes do in fact exist. This would increase the chances of a 14 handicapper making a cut on the Champions Tour would it not?

[KYMAR]

OK, I will say it.

There is NO 45 year old 14 who is destined to make a cut on the senior tour.

Is that negative? I guess it could be interpreted that way but i rather think it's just honest. This isn't like my 13 year old asked me if i thought he can be a brain surgeon and I give him the talk about how he can be whatever he puts his mind to, all the while thinking about the 2 consecutive C+'s hes gotten in science.
It's not mere pessimism or a "you should just quit" attitude. But as with all things in life, some people have aptitudes towards thing that others don't. Any guy who is 45 and is shooting 85-90 at his home track simply lacks the requisite skill to make up 25 shots in 5 years, which is realistically what it would take to achieve this. And while it's not technically an impossibility, I like the odds better that the promises of affordable transportation for the general public into outer space in my life time will come to fruition way more than I do a guy shooting numbers that put him in the bottom quarter of the field in his club championship teeing it up on a Sunday with Vijay in a couple years.

Hard work and effort can achieve incredible things, but some "goals" are fools errands. I know this the hard way because i faced the facts and i abandoned my hope of becoming the next great female soul singer years ago.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='poizster' timestamp='1329100790' post='4272009']

Maybe he's indirectly referring to NASA's Keplar mission where they have newly discovered over 1,000 planets in the ever important habitable zone, making it all the more probable that parellel universes do in fact exist. This would increase the chances of a 14 handicapper making a cut on the Champions Tour would it not?
[/quote]

were gonna need a few more solar systems to make this possible.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='poizster' timestamp='1329100790' post='4272009']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329099915' post='4271869']
[quote name='ev780' timestamp='1329097583' post='4271533']
Glad to be of service. I have really seen very few positive threads but, as I said I am new here.

Look, I am not from the everyone gets a trophy age group. But in math terms you have exactly zero chance if you don't "go for it dude." Some number, however small, above zero if you do. [b]Someday, somewhere a 45 year old 14 hcp is gonna make a Champions Tour cut somehwere[/b]. Might as well be you.


I repeat, don't cash in your retirement, but life is too damn short to give up.
[/quote]

I rest my case.
[/quote]

Maybe he's indirectly referring to NASA's Keplar mission where they have newly discovered over 1,000 planets in the ever important habitable zone, making it all the more probable that parellel universes do in fact exist. This would increase the chances of a 14 handicapper making a cut on the Champions Tour would it not?
[/quote]

i have nothing to add except that i am pretty big into astronomy (yes, that is a little known MtlJeff fact, people). Nice reference LOL, maybe that guy will play on tour on kepler 22b. Not parallel but 600 light years away, or about as far as i hit the rocketballz 3 wood

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1329104198' post='4272553']

i have nothing to add except that i am pretty big into astronomy (yes, that is a little known MtlJeff fact, people). Nice reference LOL, maybe that guy will play on tour on kepler 22b. Not parallel but 600 light years away, or about as far as i hit the rocketballz 3 wood
[/quote]

are there "go for it dude" guys on kepler 22b?

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329104315' post='4272573']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1329104198' post='4272553']
i have nothing to add except that i am pretty big into astronomy (yes, that is a little known MtlJeff fact, people). Nice reference LOL, maybe that guy will play on tour on kepler 22b. Not parallel but 600 light years away, or about as far as i hit the rocketballz 3 wood
[/quote]

are there "go for it dude" guys on kepler 22b?
[/quote]

no they are mostly on the gas giants, full of helium those chaps

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1329104573' post='4272605']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1329104315' post='4272573']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1329104198' post='4272553']
i have nothing to add except that i am pretty big into astronomy (yes, that is a little known MtlJeff fact, people). Nice reference LOL, maybe that guy will play on tour on kepler 22b. Not parallel but 600 light years away, or about as far as i hit the rocketballz 3 wood
[/quote]

are there "go for it dude" guys on kepler 22b?
[/quote]

no they are mostly on the gas giants, full of helium those chaps
[/quote]

i bet they have stack and tilt on 22b though, stack and tilt is the only way a 14 handicap on 22b is playing on the champions tour. that and a belly putter.

[jons1]

many guys that make it on the champions tour, that weren't on the pga tour, were club golfers that were so good they could have played tour golf but did't want the lifestyle or they tried and fell barely short, then later get the itch to try again because they regretted not giving it a better go. That's what I've seen. They are almost never guys who suddenly worked really hard around age 40 or 45 to make it at 50. Not that this plan isn't possible, but not typical.

my advice, try to local qualify for events in your area and see how you do. If you can play well enough, you'll have a guage. No one cares who you are, just the numbers you post. Fred Couples has the same chance as anyone else... it's score and score alone.

if you can shoot in the 60s from 7000 yards without blinking an eye, I'd say you're ready to at least give it a try. If you're a good club golfer that posts rounds of par or a few over, you might win your club championship, but you'll never make it. that's just the reality of it.

[Outlier]

When I was 38 I looked at Allen Doyle and made my decision. What is true above all else, "they" want a closed shop. In fact, they changed the name from"Senior Tour" to Champions tour for a reason.

I know for a fact, that "they" feel like Allen Doyle STOLE their money. He didn't sell tickets, Hayle Erwin and Bob Murphy did. Guess what?

"Stick 'em up...MFer's!"
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1329105304' post='4272721']
many guys that make it on the champions tour, that weren't on the pga tour, were club golfers that were so good they could have played tour golf but did't want the lifestyle or they tried and fell barely short, then later get the itch to try again because they regretted not giving it a better go. That's what I've seen. They are almost never guys who suddenly worked really hard around age 40 or 45 to make it at 50. Not that this plan isn't possible, but not typical.

my advice, try to local qualify for events in your area and see how you do. If you can play well enough, you'll have a guage. No one cares who you are, just the numbers you post. Fred Couples has the same chance as anyone else... it's score and score alone.

if you can shoot in the 60s from 7000 yards without blinking an eye, I'd say you're ready to at least give it a try. If you're a good club golfer that posts rounds of par or a few over, you might win your club championship, but you'll never make it. that's just the reality of it.
[/quote]

[Alexxx]

Life is way to short to not at least try and give it 100% for an alloted amount of time, the crazy ones are the ones who make it, by crazy I mean looking passed all the negativity in the world.

[mshills]

Go for it dude! Then come back here and stick it to the nay sayers. Of course the odds are long but they even longer if you don't try.

 

I have only been here a short time but every thread that gets started about going on any pro circuit is always greeted with a chorus of those who say it can't be done. If you want it go to it. I would not however, cash in your retirement chasing the dream. (That is realism not negativity)

 

Every turning pro thread also has the "go for it dude!" guy show up. The problem with the "go for it dude!" guy is that he hasn't played professional golf and doesn't have any idea of what it takes to actually do it.

 

and FWIW not every thread is negative, go look at the threads where the OP is a 19 year old scratch college kid who has a chance to get better and reach the next level, those are pretty positive. The negative ones are the ones where someone says "I am a 14 handicap, I am gonna quit my job and practice every day until I have put in 10,000 hours of focused practice and then I am going to go out on tour and be a zillionaire". Its like the ping commercial, "Im thinking about turning pro", "what about your mortgage?", "one good year thats all taken care of".

 

In any case the positive guy in the turning pro threads will from hence forth always be known as the "Go for it dude!" guy, so thanks for giving us that!

 

Truth. All we need now is "...if you want it bad enough, you can DO it!!" dude to join in.