Shaker Hills faces foreclosure

OrangeCrush · July 19, 2012

[quote name='Dess' timestamp='1342702228' post='5307426']
The appropriate comparison here, imho, is Butter Brook. It gets a healthy level of play and charges $78 on weekends. Match that rate and Shaker will be a must play.
[/quote]

Played there this morning with EACGolferdad. Course is in fantastic shape, greens were in mint shape, just wish they rolled a little quicker.

M910 · July 19, 2012

Butter Brook is a nice course but I haven't played there in a year even though it's less than 15 min away. I just don't care to pay $78 to play with cart on weekends. I'm a walker and can't afford to pay that much if I want to get in more than 1 round a week.

OrangeCrush · July 21, 2012

[quote name='mugen910' timestamp='1342739064' post='5311610']
Butter Brook is a nice course but I haven't played there in a year even though it's less than 15 min away. I just don't care to pay $78 to play with cart on weekends. I'm a walker and can't afford to pay that much if I want to get in more than 1 round a week.
[/quote]

Are you aware they let you walk after 2pm for $55.00?

Sounds like we live pretty close to each other. I am behind the McCarthy School off the drum hill rotary.

eacsgolferdad · August 18, 2012

Bringing this to the top. Has anyone heard anything regarding Shaker Hills? At this point, it seems like a lost season for them.

Dess · August 18, 2012

I heard rumor that they were going to try to open for labor day. That was a few weeks ago. Nothing since.

BrianL99 · August 18, 2012

[quote name='eacsgolferdad' timestamp='1345294823' post='5493892']
Bringing this to the top. Has anyone heard anything regarding Shaker Hills? At this point, it seems like a lost season for them.
[/quote]

As of 2 weeks ago, I think they were still trying to come up with a sustainable water supply. I thought that had located one last year, but apparently either the pump tests or the location of the well, didn't work out as well as anticipated. The main sprinkler control system also had to be replaced ... as well as another $1,000,000 worth of fit up & repairs, before it will be fully operational.

You might want to call Tim Valas @ [color=#373737](978) 772-3330 [/color]if you want information:

http://66.147.244.61/~shakerhi/

DCSerafin · September 9, 2012

Nice article in the Worcester Telegram about the course. Some serious changes have occurred. Sounds like no expense was skipped to bring this course back to better than what it was. The description of the 18th sounds fantastic and a practice hole will be on the course. Fantastic...

http://www.telegram.com/article/20120909/COLUMN34/109099792/1009/sports

Pritam · September 15, 2012

The thought of a par 3 warm up hole is AMAZING!! Count me in to try it out this fall.

Bandy1080 · September 18, 2012

For those willing to give it a go this year -

[url="http://deals.boston.com/deal/16585/shaker-hills-country-club-harvard"]http://deals.boston.com/deal/16585/shaker-hills-country-club-harvard[/url]

Judge Smails · September 19, 2012

Bumping an old thread here after finding it in a search, but what is the latest on the course? Is it open?

I play Butter Brook and Red Tail fairly frequently and both are worth the drive from Boston. However, Shaker Ridge was "one and done" for me and it was because of what others have echoed, poor hospitality and treatment by staff. Specifically, for me it was the fact that the course "closes" at a certain time of night. I paid full freight for a weekend round, not twilight or anything, and on 16 we were told the course was closed and we had to leave. To make matters worse in my mind, we didn't have carts!!! I can think of no reasonable reason in that case as to why we would have to pick up our balls and walk down the 17th and 18th fairways on our way in, with plenty of daylight, while not playing golf!! The ranger was smug and nasty and I NEVER went back.

Well, perhaps that was the past . . . maybe there will be bigger and better things at Shaker someday.

Chris_NH · September 22, 2012

[quote name='Judge Smails' timestamp='1348067925' post='5663297']
Bumping an old thread here after finding it in a search, but what is the latest on the course? Is it open?

I play Butter Brook and Red Tail fairly frequently and both are worth the drive from Boston. However, Shaker Ridge was "one and done" for me and it was because of what others have echoed, poor hospitality and treatment by staff. Specifically, for me it was the fact that the course "closes" at a certain time of night. I paid full freight for a weekend round, not twilight or anything, and on 16 we were told the course was closed and we had to leave. To make matters worse in my mind, we didn't have carts!!! I can think of no reasonable reason in that case as to why we would have to pick up our balls and walk down the 17th and 18th fairways on our way in, with plenty of daylight, while not playing golf!! The ranger was smug and nasty and I NEVER went back.

Well, perhaps that was the past . . . maybe there will be bigger and better things at Shaker someday.
[/quote]

I was never a Shaker Hills fan, but this strikes me as odd - wasn't their policy that cart was included (mandatory?) with the greens fees? Why were you walking?

twtolley · October 3, 2012

[quote name='Chris_NH' timestamp='1348367200' post='5679961']
[quote name='Judge Smails' timestamp='1348067925' post='5663297']
Bumping an old thread here after finding it in a search, but what is the latest on the course? Is it open?

I play Butter Brook and Red Tail fairly frequently and both are worth the drive from Boston. However, Shaker Ridge was "one and done" for me and it was because of what others have echoed, poor hospitality and treatment by staff. Specifically, for me it was the fact that the course "closes" at a certain time of night. I paid full freight for a weekend round, not twilight or anything, and on 16 we were told the course was closed and we had to leave. To make matters worse in my mind, we didn't have carts!!! I can think of no reasonable reason in that case as to why we would have to pick up our balls and walk down the 17th and 18th fairways on our way in, with plenty of daylight, while not playing golf!! The ranger was smug and nasty and I NEVER went back.

Well, perhaps that was the past . . . maybe there will be bigger and better things at Shaker someday.
[/quote]

I was never a Shaker Hills fan, but this strikes me as odd - wasn't their policy that cart was included (mandatory?) with the greens fees? Why were you walking?
[/quote]

I think there's some confusion about Shaker Farms?? and Shaker Hills.. Two different courses.

Dess · October 9, 2012

Played over the weekend. Course is in very nice shape. Some ground under repair, as you might expect given the extensive repairs. Greens were true and in great shape. The reconfigured 18th hole is not in play, but looks like a great finishing hole. 230+ yd target off the tee leaving a 170 yd blind approach for eagle. Clubhouse is still being worked on and the amenities are slim. Practice green is closed. Didn't get to the range. Staff was great!!! I suspect fees will be $79 w/cart next summer. Had a great round and enjoyed the course. Glad Shaker is back!

twtolley · October 9, 2012

[quote name='Dess' timestamp='1349796295' post='5770539']
Played over the weekend. Course is in very nice shape. Some ground under repair, as you might expect given the extensive repairs. Greens were true and in great shape. The reconfigured 18th hole is not in play, but looks like a great finishing hole. 230+ yd target off the tee leaving a 170 yd blind approach for eagle. Clubhouse is still being worked on and the amenities are slim. Practice green is closed. Didn't get to the range. Staff was great!!! I suspect fees will be $79 w/cart next summer. Had a great round and enjoyed the course. Glad Shaker is back!
[/quote]

How long was the course playing? I was told 18 was currently being played as a par 3? I'm playing there this Saturday and really looking forward to it!

Dess · October 9, 2012

[quote name='twtolley' timestamp='1349796719' post='5770585']
How long was the course playing? I was told 18 was currently being played as a par 3? I'm playing there this Saturday and really looking forward to it!
[/quote]

yes, 18 is playing @ 145. other than 18, the yardage hasn't changed. i think you'll enjoy it. the bunkers are nicely sanded, new carts, ballwashers. teaboxes are near virgin. its not an easy track and the low sun can be difficult on wet grass to find your ball - even in the fairway. so keep an eyeball on it.

Pepperturbo · October 9, 2012

I don't know the course, but read the article, and noted the author attempted to reach "the owners" of the club. I read that to mean it was privately held by what sounds to be an LLC, with limited participants.

I agree with [b]@BrianL99[/b]. Length of ownership is not measurable, nor is what the 2.13 million in debit went towards (possible problem for the bank). One thing is easy to guesstimate, due to seasonable influences, and the last five years of economy, best case revenue scenario would not cover annual operational expenses, much less "interest" payments toward 2.13 millions in debit.

Also, best guess, the course has held that debit for sometime, as banks typically hold course debit against real assets for 3-4yrs, then the balloon payoff hits. If it's not paid, the bank calls the note, requiring the sale of course assets and/or BK filing. At that juncture, its likely the bank might take over the course till they can find a qualified investor. That kind of course best survives if they have a benevolent dictator(s) as owner. Unfortunately, that courses dictator didn't ust prudent judgment on when to rebuild the clubhouse. They won't come just because of a fancy new clubhouse.

Any course that has debit service in the millions, had better have a stable and distinguished membership to pay off debit, otherwise the course will fail in today's golf economy. In other words courses with debit service are the ones in world of hurt. Well managed courses have NO debit service.

BrianL99 · October 9, 2012

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1349805339' post='5771385']

Any course that has debit service in the millions, had better have a stable and distinguished membership to pay off debit, otherwise the course will fail in today's golf economy. In other words courses with debit service are the ones in world of hurt. Well managed courses have NO debit service.
[/quote]

I don't believe the new owner is carrying any debt and I think he's really only using the course as a long term investment and hobby. I wish him luck, he outbid me at the auction, but he seems to be a good guy from what I've heard.

The golf course ownership business these days, is a tough racket to turn a profit ... the #'s just don't add up very well.

KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE · October 9, 2012

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349819381' post='5772589']

I don't believe the new owner is carrying any debt and I think he's really only using the course as a long term investment and hobby. I wish him luck, he outbid me at the auction, but he seems to be a good guy from what I've heard.

The golf course ownership business these days, is a tough racket to turn a profit ... the #'s just don't add up very well.
[/quote]

As LTI, does he see developing the course in the future? How hard/easy is it to make the move from Golf Course to Subdivision, Warehouse/Industrial ? I ask because that is the situation here in my town, with the owner running the course for a few years then closing and offering it as a development property.

BrianL99 · October 9, 2012

[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1349819824' post='5772623']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349819381' post='5772589']
I don't believe the new owner is carrying any debt and I think he's really only using the course as a long term investment and hobby. I wish him luck, he outbid me at the auction, but he seems to be a good guy from what I've heard.

The golf course ownership business these days, is a tough racket to turn a profit ... the #'s just don't add up very well.
[/quote]

As LTI, does he see developing the course in the future? How hard/easy is it to make the move from Golf Course to Subdivision, Warehouse/Industrial ? I ask because that is the situation here in my town, with the owner running the course for a few years then closing and offering it as a development property.
[/quote]

I have no clue, but the intrinsic value in golf courses in this area, is the developable land area. They tried to do a land development on the Shaker property a few years back, but it failed for various reasons. If the housing market comes back strong, who knows?

& you obviously don't know the area or you wouldn't ask about Industrial/Commercial in Harvard ... it's a one horse down and the golf course is in the woods ... you'd go broke quick, trying to do an Industrial use there

KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE · October 9, 2012

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349820477' post='5772685']
[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1349819824' post='5772623']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349819381' post='5772589']
I don't believe the new owner is carrying any debt and I think he's really only using the course as a long term investment and hobby. I wish him luck, he outbid me at the auction, but he seems to be a good guy from what I've heard.

The golf course ownership business these days, is a tough racket to turn a profit ... the #'s just don't add up very well.
[/quote]

As LTI, does he see developing the course in the future? How hard/easy is it to make the move from Golf Course to Subdivision, Warehouse/Industrial ? I ask because that is the situation here in my town, with the owner running the course for a few years then closing and offering it as a development property.
[/quote]

I have not clue, but the intrinsic value in golf courses in this area, is the developable land area. They try to do a land development on the Shaker property a few years back, but it failed for various reasons. If the housing market comes back strong, who knows?

& you obviously don't know the area or you wouldn't ask about Industrial/Commercial in Harvard ... it's a one horse down and the golf course is in the woods ... you'd go broke quick, trying to do an Industrial use there
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply. The owner of the old course here is shaking the trees trying to get any use other than the course to fly. From the aforementioned subdivision and warehousing, to a private school site with plenty of land for football/baseball feilds. No one is biting and he is keeping the grass mowed. It will be interesting to see if he has the greens covered when the temp drops.

BrianL99 · October 9, 2012

[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1349820835' post='5772711']

Thanks for the reply. The owner of the old course here is shaking the trees trying to get any use other than the course to fly. From the aforementioned subdivision and warehousing, to a private school site with plenty of land for football/baseball feilds. No one is biting and he is keeping the grass mowed. It will be interesting to see if he has the greens covered when the temp drops.
[/quote]

The #'s are just really difficult for golf right now. I don't know where in the country you are, but typically hard costs to run a golf course in this area, is around $1,000,00 - $2,000.000, depending on quality & amenities ... Private Clubs are much more expensive. If your course does 25,000 rounds (which is a good # in a 6/7 months season) @ $50/round, you're not really making any money.

KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE · October 9, 2012

I'm east of Memphis, and the course is a 9 hole Muni. The course was doing good to get $15 for 9 and a cart, but the real draw was the driving range. It was the best in West Tennessee and made more money than the course.

BrianL99 · October 9, 2012

[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1349822506' post='5772823']
I'm east of Memphis, and the course is a 9 hole Muni. The course was doing good to get $15 for 9 and a cart, but the real draw was the driving range. It was the best in West Tennessee and made more money than the course.
[/quote]

Driving ranges can be money makers, golf courses not so much.

Pepperturbo · October 9, 2012

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349819381' post='5772589']
[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1349805339' post='5771385']
Any course that has debit service in the millions, had better have a stable and distinguished membership to pay off debit, otherwise the course will fail in today's golf economy. In other words courses with debit service are the ones in world of hurt. Well managed courses have NO debit service.
[/quote]

I don't believe the new owner is carrying any debt and I think he's really only using the course as a long term investment and hobby. I wish him luck, he outbid me at the auction, but he seems to be a good guy from what I've heard.

[b]The golf course ownership business these days, is a tough racket to turn a profit ... the #'s just don't add up very well.[/b]
[/quote]

That's an understatement. IMO clubs have to be purchased as purely tax write-off against earning elsewhere, or as a attraction to buying new homes.

Imp · October 10, 2012

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349821946' post='5772773']
[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1349820835' post='5772711']
Thanks for the reply. The owner of the old course here is shaking the trees trying to get any use other than the course to fly. From the aforementioned subdivision and warehousing, to a private school site with plenty of land for football/baseball feilds. No one is biting and he is keeping the grass mowed. It will be interesting to see if he has the greens covered when the temp drops.
[/quote]

The #'s are just really difficult for golf right now. I don't know where in the country you are, but typically hard costs to run a golf course in this area, is around $1,000,00 - $2,000.000, depending on quality & amenities ... Private Clubs are much more expensive. If your course does 25,000 rounds (which is a good # in a 6/7 months season) @ $50/round, you're not really making any money.
[/quote]Hence other services, i.e. beer license, is almost a requirement for the additional revenue.

--kC

Pepperturbo · October 10, 2012

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1349891041' post='5776621']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1349821946' post='5772773']
[quote name='KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE' timestamp='1349820835' post='5772711']
Thanks for the reply. The owner of the old course here is shaking the trees trying to get any use other than the course to fly. From the aforementioned subdivision and warehousing, to a private school site with plenty of land for football/baseball feilds. No one is biting and he is keeping the grass mowed. It will be interesting to see if he has the greens covered when the temp drops.
[/quote]

The #'s are just really difficult for golf right now. I don't know where in the country you are, but typically hard costs to run a golf course in this area, is around $1,000,00 - $2,000.000, depending on quality & amenities ... Private Clubs are much more expensive. If your course does 25,000 rounds (which is a good # in a 6/7 months season) @ $50/round, you're not really making any money.
[/quote]Hence other services, i.e. beer license, is almost a requirement for the additional revenue.

--kC
[/quote]

Actually, from my private club experience, liqueur license is a given in 1M-2M annual operating expenses. People don't stop and realize other "luxury" services" can cost far more then they return in revenue, like restaurants. Eight of ten times, if the club has a bar, its revenue covers restaurant loses, and almost always. restaurants alone are losers.

Pritam · October 13, 2012

Just a quick update on Shaker Hills. Played nine holes there today. Course was in amazing shape. Everyone was super nice. Looking forward to playing there again.

im-dat-nice · October 19, 2012

Course is re-opned. Played there last week. Still in really good condition IMO.
18th hole isn't finished yet. It's supposed to turn towards the club house now. Which makes more sense than the parking lot like bfore.

Judge Smails · October 27, 2012

Nice to see someone making some changes at Shaker. Excellent article posted above.

I think the idea of a finishing hole near the patio is an excellent one. And who doesn't love the practice hole idea. Amazing!

As for my earlier post about not having a cart and being kicked off the course because it was past 7:00 p.m., notwithstanding the daylight, that very definitely happened at (the old) Shaker Hills. Here's on to bigger and better things there.