How to tell if you are playing a public course...

[jnradioactive]

Quickly changing shoes in parking lot is fine, as long as you're not taking off socks and scraping bunions... If it was a was a nice club i wouldn't smack my shoes together... to knock the grass off in the lot

[rama5]

public course (small town) men's league = people urinating on the course

[Vindog]

[quote name='rama5' timestamp='1337820582' post='4967480']
public course (small town) men's league = people urinating on the course
[/quote]

I grew up on and caddied at a private CC in Newton, MA. The members pissed everywhere without prejudice. Doctors, lawyers, ex politicos...everyone. It's their right as members, they probably felt.

[jnradioactive]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1337820698' post='4967500']
[quote name='rama5' timestamp='1337820582' post='4967480']
public course (small town) men's league = people urinating on the course
[/quote]

I grew up on and caddied at a private CC in Newton, MA. The members pissed everywhere without prejudice. Doctors, lawyers, ex politicos...everyone. It's their right as members, they probably felt.
[/quote]

Yeah but that's a MA thing they do it all over up there, not just on golf courses...

[TJMAC]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1337820698' post='4967500']
[quote name='rama5' timestamp='1337820582' post='4967480']
public course (small town) men's league = people urinating on the course
[/quote]

I grew up on and caddied at a private CC in Newton, MA. The members pissed everywhere without prejudice. Doctors, lawyers, ex politicos...everyone. It's their right as members, they probably felt.
[/quote]
Reminds me, growing up playing with my grandfather and his buddies at their CC in Florida. One of the guys was like 80yrs old, would take a water pill before the round and piss on the side of the tee box on every other hole. My grandfather would b**** at him at chip balls trying to hit the guy in the nuts.

[caller]

A pig watching me from the bunker..... this won't happen on a private golf course.

[Oxford The Cat]

[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]1. better course conditions (all around tee box, fairway, greens, rough, sand)[/color][/size]
Not necessarily. There are easily 15 public courses within an hours drive around me that all have conditions that match or exceed the private clubs in the area (initiations from 20k - 80k), including two that are this year,or have previously, hosted tour events.
Aside from the less notable courses around me, more notable public courses include Bethpage, Sawgrass, Pebble Beach, Whistling Straights, Spy Glass, Pinehurst, and some 'Old Course' I keep hearing about in Scotland.

[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]2. better green conditions, faster, and more consistent[/color][/size]
See above.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]* change pins daily,[/color][/size]
[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Unsure, but probably not likely, every 2-3 days more likely.[/size][/color]
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]cut and speed roll daily, hand roll after speed roll for tournaments[/color][/size]
Any decent public.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]3. higher expectations for pace of play and management of pace of play - during tournaments slow play is penalized[/color][/size]
Private clubs can be [i]worse[/i] for pace of play: Nobody has the stones to tell someone that's paid 50k to get their a** in gear.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]4. better conditions on grass range, short game facility, and practice putting greens. staff on range to keep filling pyramids as needed.[/color][/size]
See answer 1.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]5. higher expectations for people to fix divots and ball marks[/color][/size]
Not really.
[color="#A0522D"][size="2"]6. all staff (golf / restaurant) know you and your family and what you prefer for f&b[/size][/color]
Maybe, but I doubt it, and I think, respectfully, you're full of s*** on this one.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]7. all staff treat you very well and your voice is heard on pace and conditions[/color][/size]
... just like at any decent public course....
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]8. traps raked daily and consistent length rough with scheduled mowings[/color][/size]
Every public course, excluding maybe bargain Par 3 courses.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]9. starters to make sure people don't start behind and rangers on front and back keeping pace plus access to call at anytime you see a backup[/color][/size]
Every decent public course..... though *gasp*, we might have to [i]use our own cell phones[/i] if we wanted to get a marshall.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]10. access to other private clubs in the area for inter club tournaments[/color][/size]
Just like a membership at any 'semi-private' would offer, but I guess you've got that one advantage - few 'open' events. The membership related events are the only real advantages.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]11. a lot of golf tournaments and weekly league - unfortunately most are net so you need to deal with the occasional sand baggers[/color][/size]
See 10.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]12. golf committees with handicap committee that watches weekly for people not posting, sand bagging, etc and adjusts handicaps for those that just happen to have low tournament rounds versus their posted rounds[/color][/size]
See 10.
[color="#a0522d"][size="2"]1[/size][size="2"]3. lockers to keep golf gear and change with showers available. shoe room for someone to clean and polish occasionally and respike[/size][/color]
Lockers / showers at most decent public courses.... though heaven forbid, there will be no one to clean and polish our shoes while we golf!
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]14. staff to get your cart on the bag from bag drop and clean clubs and return to bag drop if you don't store your clubs at the club[/color][/size]
Once again, heaven forbid that a golfer [i]actually have to clean his own clubs.[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[b]Final Score: 3 / 14.[/b]

Poor public course playing golfers have to suffer the humiliation of carrying their own clubs from the cart to the stand area, and washing their own clubs if they choose after the round.

... they also miss the satisfaction of having someone clean their shoes, I suppose.[i]
[/i]

Its a wonder anyone golf's at public courses.....

[golfnut-2X]

Very misleading to assume that 98% of the public golfers live next to a pebble beach and whistling straights. The reality most public golf coursers are not even close.



[quote name='Oxford The Cat' timestamp='1337834415' post='4968832']
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]1. better course conditions (all around tee box, fairway, greens, rough, sand)[/color][/size]
Not necessarily. There are easily 15 public courses within an hours drive around me that all have conditions that match or exceed the private clubs in the area (initiations from 20k - 80k), including two that are this year,or have previously, hosted tour events.
Aside from the less notable courses around me, more notable public courses include Bethpage, Sawgrass, Pebble Beach, Whistling Straights, Spy Glass, Pinehurst, and some 'Old Course' I keep hearing about in Scotland.

In general the higher you pay the better the condtiions. Not sure about you but excluding the few national ones we know about but in my state 98% of the public are no where close a nice country club wrt to conditions.


[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]2. better green conditions, faster, and more consistent[/color][/size]
See above.

See above - not even close - my daugther has already played 5 tournaments this spring on public courses and the conditions were awefull relatively - greens < 10-11 (actually more like 9). Pins were moved so there was wear and tear around the hole. You are kidding yourself hear. This is usually the biggest benefit where people that care about golf will pore money into the greens first since that's where you putt the ball into the hole.


[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]* change pins daily,[/color][/size]
[color="#1c2837"][size="2"]Unsure, but probably not likely, every 2-3 days more likely.[/size][/color]
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]cut and speed roll daily, hand roll after speed roll for tournaments[/color][/size]
Any decent public.

Most public courses in my state don't even have rollers let alone cut the greens every morning. Again ignoring the few big national ones 98% of the ones in my state don't do this. Public courses get high traffic and when they don't change to the pins until 3 days later the most important part of the putting surface < 10 feet is in awful condition to put through.


[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]3. higher expectations for pace of play and management of pace of play - during tournaments slow play is penalized[/color][/size]
Private clubs can be [i]worse[/i] for pace of play: Nobody has the stones to tell someone that's paid 50k to get their a** in gear.

Do you actually belong to a club? Very distorted view. Most of the better players are anal retentive on pace of play. The more you pay the more anal retentive. In tournaments I have called the proshop to sit on my group because I guy was ultra slow and we were all going to get penalized if they didn't see this guy work in slow motion. If you have a 4:45/5:00 tournament round the guys go bizerck on the proshop to stop it from happening.


[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]4. better conditions on grass range, short game facility, and practice putting greens. staff on range to keep filling pyramids as needed.[/color][/size]
See answer 1.

again from the few nationals. out club has a nice grass range, people filling pyramids constantly, short game facility with 4 greens and 3 traps and a practice green. So far every public course in the last two years my daugther played in a tournament non of them have all of it and alot of them don't have a range and when they do the turf is not bent grass its more like a mixed weed.

[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]5. higher expectations for people to fix divots and ball marks[/color][/size]
Not really.

Again, are you a member of a club. When I played public courses you rairly saw people fix divots and ball marks. At the club no one wants to do that to the place the play all the time. Guys would be called out if they did. Etiquette also is if you see a mark not fixed fix it.

[color="#a0522d"][size="2"]6. all staff (golf / restaurant) know you and your family and what you prefer for f&b[/size][/color]
Maybe, but I doubt it, and I think, respectfully, you're full of s*** on this one.

Not really. Bartenders know everyone and know what they like. Since we eat there a lot the restaurant staff usually knows what we want to order. This is one of the big factors of a country club. The membership is small and everyone knows you and your family. No matter if you are on the green, proshop, range, restaurant, bagshop everyone calls you by your last name and recognizes you. My daugther and I are at the club all the time. We just call up 15 minutes prior to finishing practice / playing and we walk into our standard table have food and carraffes out eat and leave since she practices frequentlly. Won't get away with that type service all the time somewhere else.

[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]7. all staff treat you very well and your voice is heard on pace and conditions[/color][/size]
... just like at any decent public course....

Again, daugther played in a lot of tournaments last two years on public courses and not sure what you are referring to. They don't even know us (nor should they nor do we expect them to). Why would a public course from a joe blow take recommendations on improving certain conditions on the course - they would like at you like you are crazy.


[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]8. traps raked daily and consistent length rough with scheduled mowings[/color][/size]
Every public course, excluding maybe bargain Par 3 courses.

Every public course does not rake traps daily. Again last two years in her tournaments most public course in the state traps were relatively aweful - foot prints, etc. Some of the tournaments they allowed them to rake the foot prints clear and drop a ball because of the conditions. You are kidding yourself on the 95% of the public courses.


[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]9. starters to make sure people don't start behind and rangers on front and back keeping pace plus access to call at anytime you see a backup[/color][/size]
Every decent public course..... though *gasp*, we might have to [i]use our own cell phones[/i] if we wanted to get a marshall.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]10. access to other private clubs in the area for inter club tournaments[/color][/size]
Just like a membership at any 'semi-private' would offer, but I guess you've got that one advantage - few 'open' events. The membership related events are the only real advantages.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]11. a lot of golf tournaments and weekly league - unfortunately most are net so you need to deal with the occasional sand baggers[/color][/size]
See 10.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]12. golf committees with handicap committee that watches weekly for people not posting, sand bagging, etc and adjusts handicaps for those that just happen to have low tournament rounds versus their posted rounds[/color][/size]
See 10.
[color="#a0522d"][size="2"]1[/size][size="2"]3. lockers to keep golf gear and change with showers available. shoe room for someone to clean and polish occasionally and respike[/size][/color]
Lockers / showers at most decent public courses.... though heaven forbid, there will be no one to clean and polish our shoes while we golf!
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]14. staff to get your cart on the bag from bag drop and clean clubs and return to bag drop if you don't store your clubs at the club[/color][/size]
Once again, heaven forbid that a golfer [i]actually have to clean his own clubs

[/i]
Bottom line, you play public because that's what you an afford. I did the same. But don't lie to yourself that the people shelling out iniitation fees and annual dues are not getting what they paid for. There are exectpions which I agree but for the most part you usually get what you pay for just like anything in life with some minor exceptions.

I

[Vindog]

I've had some fun in this here thread, but I thought it was a given that not ALL public courses are the same and that not ALL private courses are the same, and that not EVERY private course is better than EVERY public course.


We all know that right?

[Crab Daddy]

Since this has turned into somewhat of a public v. privatethread, I have a question for the country clubbers:
Does your course host corporate outings? If so, how many per month (in season)?

I ask because my favorite local public course (privately owned) books an outrageous number of corporate outings. Last September they had 10-12 days where at least one of the two courses were closed - maybe open back up > 3:00. You can buy an annual " membership" or a seasonal pass, but all those corporate days cut into the value of what you get. Just wondering if a similar situation existed at private courses.

[dasbill]

Words said just before you die and on an arkansas golf course. Hold my beer and watch this ****.

[Another Steelers Fan]

[quote name='caller' timestamp='1337823375' post='4967748']
A pig watching me from the bunker.....[/quote]

Umm. Speechless.

You can also use that post in the "Strangest Animal Encounters" thread.

A pig in the bunker....

Wow.

[VA_Hacker]

You are playing at a public course if the tee box, fairway, rough and greens all look the same.

[Another Steelers Fan]

A pig in the bunker....

[golfnut-2X]

[quote name='Crab Daddy' timestamp='1337866703' post='4969864']
Since this has turned into somewhat of a public v. privatethread, I have a question for the country clubbers:
Does your course host corporate outings? If so, how many per month (in season)?

I ask because my favorite local public course (privately owned) books an outrageous number of corporate outings. Last September they had 10-12 days where at least one of the two courses were closed - maybe open back up > 3:00. You can buy an annual " membership" or a seasonal pass, but all those corporate days cut into the value of what you get. Just wondering if a similar situation existed at private courses.
[/quote]


i am sure its different at each place but almost all the private clubs in my area are closed on Mondays. When the club is closed they can book an outing on the closed day to generate additional revenues. doesn't impact member play since club is scheduled closed.

[ej002]

[quote name='rama5' timestamp='1337820582' post='4967480']
public course (small town) men's league = people urinating on the course
[/quote]


Does this really matter? I think this happens on most courses, maybe not Augusta...

[dartboss04]

I don't think I would ever be comfortable regularly playing somewhere where changing shoes in the parking lot was frowned upon. I don't want to be around people who share that sentiment, as it would probably translate into other aspects of their life. It's may be too much of an assumption, but many times you can get a good read on someone, even through a few meaningless posts in a thread.

Through college and lifetime residence in CT, I've experienced all socioeconomic types from top to bottom, and personally I feel most comfortable in the middle and below, and therefore gravitate to public courses. In my area, we are pretty lucky to have quite a few decent public tracks, so I have a lot of options.

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='SnapFade2' timestamp='1337815255' post='4967044']
when the trash can on every hole is full of beer cans
[/quote]And filled with brands that you can't get at the Snack Shack!!!

[StevenF]

When the beer cart girl is wearing a bikini. Not joking and she was hot.

[jeffblais09]

When Jack Hamm is the head pro

[TheMackDaddy]

LOL everyone is getting so dang pissy!

[poprocksncoke]

[quote name='StevenF' timestamp='1337887462' post='4972068']
When the beer cart girl is wearing a bikini. Not joking and she was hot.
[/quote]

[StarFleetGolfer]

[quote name='ruascott' timestamp='1337712342' post='4959278']
Man.....these sound like some real dog tracks in the ghetto or something......none of these apply at the mid range or even cheaper publics that I've played.
[/quote]


I've seen some of this stuff on $350.00 green fee courses

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='Crab Daddy' timestamp='1337866703' post='4969864']
Since this has turned into somewhat of a public v. privatethread, I have a question for the country clubbers:
Does your course host corporate outings? If so, how many per month (in season)?

I ask because my favorite local public course (privately owned) books an outrageous number of corporate outings. Last September they had 10-12 days where at least one of the two courses were closed - maybe open back up > 3:00. You can buy an annual " membership" or a seasonal pass, but all those corporate days cut into the value of what you get. Just wondering if a similar situation existed at private courses.
[/quote]

Our course is closed on Mondays but, depending on the time of year, as many as two or three Mondays may be used for outside events. Probably 20 times/year or so (out of 12 months). We also host tournaments like the State Amateur, USGA qualifiers or events from the smaller professional mini-tours on occasion. Those will usually be 2 or 3 days and that's a total of another 10-15 days per year at most. Some years much less.

This is a member-owned club and I doubt the membership would tolerate any more outside activity than that. Some complaining even at this level.

[Sean2]

Greens fees are reasonable.

[kitsoasis]

You can't just name a dozen of the best public access courses in the world and get away with it.

And FYI most of the staff at my club know me and my brother, so was your assessment from experience or just a wild guess?

Nice try...

[quote name='Oxford The Cat' timestamp='1337834415' post='4968832']
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]1. better course conditions (all around tee box, fairway, greens, rough, sand)[/color][/size]
Not necessarily. There are easily 15 public courses within an hours drive around me that all have conditions that match or exceed the private clubs in the area (initiations from 20k - 80k), including two that are this year,or have previously, hosted tour events.
Aside from the less notable courses around me, more notable public courses include Bethpage, Sawgrass, Pebble Beach, Whistling Straights, Spy Glass, Pinehurst, and some 'Old Course' I keep hearing about in Scotland.

[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]2. better green conditions, faster, and more consistent[/color][/size]
See above.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]* change pins daily,[/color][/size]
[color="#1C2837"][size="2"]Unsure, but probably not likely, every 2-3 days more likely.[/size][/color]
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]cut and speed roll daily, hand roll after speed roll for tournaments[/color][/size]
Any decent public.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]3. higher expectations for pace of play and management of pace of play - during tournaments slow play is penalized[/color][/size]
Private clubs can be [i]worse[/i] for pace of play: Nobody has the stones to tell someone that's paid 50k to get their a** in gear.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]4. better conditions on grass range, short game facility, and practice putting greens. staff on range to keep filling pyramids as needed.[/color][/size]
See answer 1.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]5. higher expectations for people to fix divots and ball marks[/color][/size]
Not really.
[color="#A0522D"][size="2"]6. all staff (golf / restaurant) know you and your family and what you prefer for f&b[/size][/color]
Maybe, but I doubt it, and I think, respectfully, you're full of s*** on this one.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]7. all staff treat you very well and your voice is heard on pace and conditions[/color][/size]
... just like at any decent public course....
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]8. traps raked daily and consistent length rough with scheduled mowings[/color][/size]
Every public course, excluding maybe bargain Par 3 courses.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]9. starters to make sure people don't start behind and rangers on front and back keeping pace plus access to call at anytime you see a backup[/color][/size]
Every decent public course..... though *gasp*, we might have to [i]use our own cell phones[/i] if we wanted to get a marshall.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]10. access to other private clubs in the area for inter club tournaments[/color][/size]
Just like a membership at any 'semi-private' would offer, but I guess you've got that one advantage - few 'open' events. The membership related events are the only real advantages.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]11. a lot of golf tournaments and weekly league - unfortunately most are net so you need to deal with the occasional sand baggers[/color][/size]
See 10.
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]12. golf committees with handicap committee that watches weekly for people not posting, sand bagging, etc and adjusts handicaps for those that just happen to have low tournament rounds versus their posted rounds[/color][/size]
See 10.
[color="#a0522d"][size="2"]1[/size][size="2"]3. lockers to keep golf gear and change with showers available. shoe room for someone to clean and polish occasionally and respike[/size][/color]
Lockers / showers at most decent public courses.... though heaven forbid, there will be no one to clean and polish our shoes while we golf!
[size="2"][color="#a0522d"]14. staff to get your cart on the bag from bag drop and clean clubs and return to bag drop if you don't store your clubs at the club[/color][/size]
Once again, heaven forbid that a golfer [i]actually have to clean his own clubs.[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[b]Final Score: 3 / 14.[/b]

Poor public course playing golfers have to suffer the humiliation of carrying their own clubs from the cart to the stand area, and washing their own clubs if they choose after the round.

... they also miss the satisfaction of having someone clean their shoes, I suppose.[i]
[/i]

Its a wonder anyone golf's at public courses.....
[/quote]

[Over Par]

Tee boxes littered with broken tees.

[youfromjoisey]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1337778641' post='4963724']
My guess is the "changing shoes in the parking lot" meme is related to the concept among country-club types of the "trunk slammer". The idea being that a Good Member is not just there for the golf. A trunk slammer is someone who:

Can't be bothered to come in and socialized for 30-40 minutes while changing clothes before and after the round

Goes straight from the car park to the golf course, plays, then leaves in the same way

Never shows up to banquets, business meetings, holiday events, weekday evening dinners and the like

In other words, someone who does not fully participate in the aspects of the club having nothing to do with golf. I do belong to a private club and I'm pretty close to being a trunk slammer myself. Now I like hanging around the grill room after the round or eating lunch while I'm there to play golf but have no interest in driving 20 miles to the club on days I'm not playing golf. And that doesn't go down well with certain of the members. Fortunately, we trunk slammers make up a huge portion of the membership so nobody (usually) makes a big deal about it. At some clubs that would get you invited to not continue being a member.
[/quote]



Thanks for clarifying. I was among the many confused by this.

[golfnut-2X]

[quote name='Over Par' timestamp='1337894577' post='4972744']
Tee boxes littered with broken tees.
[/quote]


..And somoene in the foursome picking them up so they don't need to buy tees

Proshop actually sells tees

Someone has one of those extension poles in their bag to retrieve a ball from a water hazard

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='youfromjoisey' timestamp='1337902542' post='4973338']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1337778641' post='4963724']
My guess is the "changing shoes in the parking lot" meme is related to the concept among country-club types of the "trunk slammer". The idea being that a Good Member is not just there for the golf. A trunk slammer is someone who:

Can't be bothered to come in and socialized for 30-40 minutes while changing clothes before and after the round

Goes straight from the car park to the golf course, plays, then leaves in the same way

Never shows up to banquets, business meetings, holiday events, weekday evening dinners and the like

In other words, someone who does not fully participate in the aspects of the club having nothing to do with golf. I do belong to a private club and I'm pretty close to being a trunk slammer myself. Now I like hanging around the grill room after the round or eating lunch while I'm there to play golf but have no interest in driving 20 miles to the club on days I'm not playing golf. And that doesn't go down well with certain of the members. Fortunately, we trunk slammers make up a huge portion of the membership so nobody (usually) makes a big deal about it. At some clubs that would get you invited to not continue being a member.
[/quote]



Thanks for clarifying. I was among the many confused by this.
[/quote]

You're welcome.

And by the way, nobody at my club cares where you change your shoes. Some of the members have been there 30, 40, 50 years and I do not think anyone would have the nerve to complain about their shoe-changing in the parking lot!