Eliminating early extension - once and for all

[JPGolf FL]

[quote name='oliversax' timestamp='1358954783' post='6282463']
I've been following this thread for a while now, since I've been an EE practitioner for 20 years. LOL. I"ve taken a myriad of lessons and no one has really addressed the problem directly. I've views at the great tips posted here, but none of them seem to fix my EE.

I wholly believe that EE is a result of some other swing flaws and I cannot fix it directly with out fixing the 'cause' of EE in the 1st place.

A bit about me, I'm a 5 hdcp'er but extremely erratic, I can lose up to 10 balls/round. thus I can shoot in the 70s or 100s, depending on how my timing is that day. My usual ball flight is a draw or pull draw, my misses tend to be 'the hook from hell' or shanks/heel hits.

My swing flaws seem to be:
- taking the club back too fast
- closing the club face at the top by bowing and twisting my wrist in a weird way
- crossing the line at the top

So by trying not hook it off the planet, I do these compensating moves to shallow out the club at impact:
- EE/goat hump
- Sliding my hips towards the target too much
- Extending my wrist angle to where the club much more upright at impact than at address (hands much farther from body at impact than at address)

Here are the videos of my swing:
DTL
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBZGcrnMZw4[/media]

Face on
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrSBSg2tnNA[/media]

I have a tendency to adjust to the club pretty well, for example, I can hit a 13* driver and a 8.5* driver the same height. Same with a 6i and 9i. So if I go to the root cause, which is a bad backswing, I'm hoping to fix my downswing and eliminating EE.

So here are my questions to those of you who have successfully fixed your EE:
- How long did it take you to fix it?
- Did it improve your ball striking, more GIR?
- Did the changes stick or do you revert back to your old 'goat humping' ways from time to time?
- We all have good days and bad days, are the bad days better than before you fixed your EE?

Thanks to all the helpful posts here, as I'm looking for my 'magic bullet' to kill my EE once and for all.
[/quote]
A very slight change in posture does not necessarily mean EE. I think people have become much too obsessed with keeping a hogan posture all the way through the swing. Your swing looks really good. Take Monty's advice and then stop tinkering. Go golf your ball and make it go into the hole. No reason you can't be a one or two handicap with that swing. If you can lose 10 balls and a round with that swing, it's not your swing it's your mind. Forget all mechanics when you get to the course and simply Focus on hitting fairways and greens. If you are a good putter you could easily be scratch.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='sonofagunn' timestamp='1358957600' post='6282703']
Monte, in that video you are talking about a cure for a pull-slice - but if someone needs to shallow their club in transition but currently hit pushes and hooks, are they going to make it worse, or is there are different piece that will also have to change?
[/quote]

The body is reactive. Higher handicap players slice and even shank when the get steep.

In this case, he is nitpicking himself.

Better players when they get steep...and he only does it a hair...can get a little stuck and stall and flip. It's more a case of getting narrow.

I am hoping the tip I gave him gives him a little more room when his left arm works under a little more and he tilts a little more.

[sonofagunn]

Thanks for the response. I was curious because I am in the same boat as him right now. It seems to help to feel the club dropping straight down in transition and the clubhead stays close to the back of my neck until it whips through (or feel like I'm swinging under a low ceiling). Divots are less toe-down and I can hit some great ones, but haven't seen it on video yet and I'm still really inconsistent with pushes and hooks.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='sonofagunn' timestamp='1358958897' post='6282821']
Thanks for the response. I was curious because I am in the same boat as him right now. It seems to help to feel the club dropping straight down in transition and the clubhead stays close to the back of my neck until it whips through (or feel like I'm swinging under a low ceiling). Divots are less toe-down and I can hit some great ones, but haven't seen it on video yet and I'm still really inconsistent with pushes and hooks.
[/quote]

This is why getting better is so hard and teaching is an in exact science.

[oliversax]

[quote name='thesponge' timestamp='1358957721' post='6282713']
...If you can lose 10 balls and a round with that swing, it's not your swing it's your mind. Forget all mechanics when you get to the course and simply Focus on hitting fairways and greens...
[/quote]

Hey Sponge, how'd you get into my head? LOL. That's exactly my problem, I tend to get very mechanical, even while playing. I played w/ a mini-tour pro yesterday and he said I needed to employ a preshot routine so I don't get too mechanical and quick with my transition. I shot (+4) from the front tees on the front 9, then moved back to the tips with him on the back 9 while employing a preshot routine and visualizing my shot as precursor to hitting the ball, and I shot (-1) on the back.

That said, Monty was kind enough to give me a good tip that I will try out on the range and hopefully cure my steep transition/hooks/shanks, and ultimately EE.

Still, can anyone who has fixed his EE answer my questions in post #179?

[JPGolf FL]

You pretty much have no EE to speak of. You are definitely nowhere near "goat humping". If you used to do this I doubt very seriously if you will revert back to it.

And for sure, work on Monte's suggestion. I just meant not to nitpick your swing to death. From your post it seems like you are. I can tell because I used to be the exact same way. What I learned works much better is to read my ball flight, feels, and overall game. Then I simply use video to check to see what it looks like. I'm not looking for any certain position, only using video to diagnose problems in my game. Let Monty and the other pros advise you on what to work on!

[Oldnavycdr]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1358116592' post='6221433']
[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1358115565' post='6221357']
What is the relation of the right elbow and right hip at the top of the swing? It is still possible to take hands deep into the bs keeping the club on plane. From what I'm understanding - the elbow can't get lost too deep and run off causing the club to go across the line. Obviously the arms shouldn't work away on the bs. So how do the hands to in without going behind?
[/quote]

That is why the transition is so important. If you restricted the hip turn in the backswing, spin them out in transition, or poor shift, the elbow has no time or room to get in front.

Deep hip turn, good shift in transition. Here are two videos that will help.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW9ZCeA19vs&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HmT4LN--3g&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]
[/quote]


Monte, this is very helpful for me as I've struggled with the proper tranistion. "Bump" didn't work for me as I tended to move latterally, get my upper body ahead of the ball and "fore left!" Your discription and drill of moving the right hip up and then the left hip up makes the move clear to me. But now I have a question about "bump, dump, and turn." Is this instruction one plane or two plane...or consistent with both methods? I've read that in one plane (the method I'm working on) there is little or no "dump". Should I work just on the hip movement in this video with my OP swing or add the the dump to the turn? I struggle to stay behind the ball with my OP method.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Oldnavycdr' timestamp='1358983542' post='6285177']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1358116592' post='6221433']
[quote name='swanry30' timestamp='1358115565' post='6221357']
What is the relation of the right elbow and right hip at the top of the swing? It is still possible to take hands deep into the bs keeping the club on plane. From what I'm understanding - the elbow can't get lost too deep and run off causing the club to go across the line. Obviously the arms shouldn't work away on the bs. So how do the hands to in without going behind?
[/quote]

That is why the transition is so important. If you restricted the hip turn in the backswing, spin them out in transition, or poor shift, the elbow has no time or room to get in front.

Deep hip turn, good shift in transition. Here are two videos that will help.

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW9ZCeA19vs&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HmT4LN--3g&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/media]
[/quote]


Monte, this is very helpful for me as I've struggled with the proper tranistion. "Bump" didn't work for me as I tended to move latterally, get my upper body ahead of the ball and "fore left!" Your discription and drill of moving the right hip up and then the left hip up makes the move clear to me. But now I have a question about "bump, dump, and turn." Is this instruction one plane or two plane...or consistent with both methods? I've read that in one plane (the method I'm working on) there is little or no "dump". Should I work just on the hip movement in this video with my OP swing or add the the dump to the turn? I struggle to stay behind the ball with my OP method.
[/quote]


The answer is what works and feels right.

I know that's not that helpful, but this is a coordinated movement and I can't predict what feel will work for you. Practice and trial and error will give you the answer.

[Sabre3]

I have a question on the "bump". Is the bump proportional to the club you are using? Meaning there is a bit more bump with a longer club (driver) as opposed to a wedge?

[johnstone610]

[quote name='chrisgilly09' timestamp='1357144207' post='6153485']
Bend a 6 iron 6* flat and try early extending with it lol.
[/quote]

I've done this it helps quite a bit and allows you to really release the club and not worry about hitting big draws like you do with upright clubs (maybe this is because i'm short?)

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Sabre3' timestamp='1359059407' post='6290923']
I have a question on the "bump". Is the bump proportional to the club you are using? Meaning there is a bit more bump with a longer club (driver) as opposed to a wedge?
[/quote]

Yes

[StuartRS]

Thank you to the OP. I am sure I have been struggling with this for some time, but was unsure of the cause. The first 2 videos by Monte were a great help.

I believe I am a player that gets under plane when EE, my bad shots have always been a push or snap hook. My teacher from many moons ago, always wanted me to keep my right shoulder high through impact which worked well as a junior.

The video had made me realise that I setup with too little pelvic tilt and thus rotate my hips too level and probably my shoulders too. By adjusting this and trying a few motions without a club, I have found that feeling of the left hip moving in and down and the right hip up and back on the downswing, something I have never felt to that degree before.

Now I don't expect it to change over night, and that with a club in hand it may be very different. However, I have 3 days of golf coming up and if I am going to start correcting it, I may as well start now.

Thanks again.

[GeoffDickson]

I am the OP.

On New Year's Day I sat down with my wife to watch Dirty Dancing with computer on my lap. Before you could say 'nice melons', I had cut and pasted all of Monte's thoughts on EE.

So how have I fared with my quest to eliminate my EE by the end of January?. Pretty good I think.

I have equalled par and shot 2 under of the front tees. The have been a few other very good scores. I have never been hitting the ball better or further.

I am certain I still have EE...but starting this thread definitely provided the framework and impetus for my improvement. As Monte has reminded us more than once, these things take time and there is no quick fix.

So to Monte and the late, great Patrick Swayze, I say again...Thanks. I couldn't have done with you.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='GeoffDickson' timestamp='1359880051' post='6353769']
I am the OP.

On New Year's Day I sat down with my wife to watch Dirty Dancing with computer on my lap. Before you could say 'nice melons', I had cut and pasted all of Monte's thoughts on EE.

So how have I fared with my quest to eliminate my EE by the end of January?. Pretty good I think.

I have equalled par and shot 2 under of the front tees. The have been a few other very good scores. I have never been hitting the ball better or further.

I am certain I still have EE...but starting this thread definitely provided the framework and impetus for my improvement. As Monte has reminded us more than once, these things take time and there is no quick fix.

So to Monte and the late, great Patrick Swayze, I say again...Thanks. I couldn't have done with you.
[/quote]

Do you have any video of before and after?

[pokerlife]

Have worked on shorter backswing and a better club head position at the top and still no luck..
Anyone see anything in the face on? My left hip still looks like it doesn't work properly



[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ER0osbSfc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2ER0osbSfc[/url]

[Tom Grooms]

I'm also guilty of early extension. My bad shots for a long time were off the toe. While trying to find the center of the clubface more consistently I now have my bad shots being fat and/or off the heal. I pulled the phone camera and tripod out this afternoon and it looks like I have work to do...

I practice and/or play everyday and have more than a few beautiful practice facilities just a golf cart ride away. Lots of great stuff in this thread but I'm a bit overwhelmed. I have the time, the facilities and the desire to get this worked out but I'm not sure were to start.

What do you guys see here? Any of you guru's wanna chime in?

Thanks in advance,

Tom Grooms
The Villages, Florida

[media=]http://youtu.be/Xf3VU2wwx4c[/media]

[HappyGolf]

^
^
^
Tom... is your right hand grip a bit on the strong side?

[Tom Grooms]

[quote name='HappyGolf' timestamp='1362710056' post='6568183']
^
^
^
Tom... is your right hand grip a bit on the strong side?
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply Happy but I believe I'm fairly neutral with the right hand. Both V's normally point @ the right shoulder. It may be the shadows making it look a little off...

[attachment=1574627:IMAG2248-1.jpg]

[Dave D]

[quote name='Tom Grooms' timestamp='1362701667' post='6567231']
I'm also guilty of early extension. My bad shots for a long time were off the toe. While trying to find the center of the clubface more consistently I now have my bad shots being fat and/or off the heal. I pulled the phone camera and tripod out this afternoon and it looks like I have work to do...

I practice and/or play everyday and have more than a few beautiful practice facilities just a golf cart ride away. Lots of great stuff in this thread but I'm a bit overwhelmed. I have the time, the facilities and the desire to get this worked out but I'm not sure were to start.

What do you guys see here? Any of you guru's wanna chime in?

Thanks in advance,

Tom Grooms
The Villages, Florida

[media=]http://youtu.be/Xf3VU2wwx4c[/media]
[/quote]
Your early extension is more than likely due to ur inside takeaway which gets ur hands and club behind you, watch this video by Monte and it will sort u out.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-s99Jlq0Mc&feature=share&list=PL2AD86C87F299A665"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-s99Jlq0Mc&feature=share&list=PL2AD86C87F299A665[/url]

[Tom Grooms]

Thanks Dave, I didn't notice that. In an attempt to minimize and reduce the toe shots I was trying to get the plane flatter. I'll work on that inside takeaway this afternoon. Thanks again

[Dave D]

[quote name='Tom Grooms' timestamp='1362756014' post='6570761']
Thanks Dave, I didn't notice that. In an attempt to minimize and reduce the toe shots I was trying to get the plane flatter. I'll work on that inside takeaway this afternoon. Thanks again
[/quote]
No worries, i had the exact same problem and still suffer to some extent now when i get sloppy, this video helped me tons.

[Dave D]

[quote name='Tom Grooms' timestamp='1362756014' post='6570761']
Thanks Dave, I didn't notice that. In an attempt to minimize and reduce the toe shots I was trying to get the plane flatter. I'll work on that inside takeaway this afternoon. Thanks again
[/quote]
This is another great vid and drill to help not only with the takeaway but keeping everything in sync and stopping early extension.
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAD3Q0WIDo4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=UAD3Q0WIDo4[/url]

[FairwaysToHeaven]

can anyone comment on whether turning the lead foot outwards or opening this foot helps with fixing ee. i've tried opening this foot on long irons and drives and seems helps the front hip turn through easier and therefore lessening the chances that the hip will reach the point where it can't turn as easily and then causing me to stand up before impact. i hit my irons pretty good, both slight draw and solid contact, but having issues with driver and think ee is the problem.

anyone else try this?

[JPGolf FL]

Depending on your anatomy, most need the feet flared out a bit to free up the hips.

[mattmartin]

Hey there Monte, was going to see if you could see the cause of my early extension from this video of my swing I took today. I've tried all the drills and tips out there and nothing seems to cure this thrust through impact. Any help would be appreciated for sure. http://youtu.be/tUHCJvtQFNE

[Dave D]

[quote name='mattmartin' timestamp='1402885520' post='9503601']
Hey there Monte, was going to see if you could see the cause of my early extension from this video of my swing I took today. I've tried all the drills and tips out there and nothing seems to cure this thrust through impact. Any help would be appreciated for sure. [media=]http://youtu.be/tUHCJvtQFNE[/media]
[/quote]
the video is private

[mattmartin]

[quote name='davekzg' timestamp='1402917596' post='9505039']
[quote name='mattmartin' timestamp='1402885520' post='9503601']
Hey there Monte, was going to see if you could see the cause of my early extension from this video of my swing I took today. I've tried all the drills and tips out there and nothing seems to cure this thrust through impact. Any help would be appreciated for sure. [media=]http://youtu.be/tUHCJvtQFNE[/media]
[/quote]
the video is private
[/quote]

[mattmartin]

It's public now...sorry about that.

[MonteScheinblum]

Right shoulder down too much. Needs to work out more.

Good swing.

[MK7Golf21]

know this as well, swinging too much in to out will cause the right hip to kick out as well.