What do you think?

[Geo]

It's not a personall attack if it's based in fact. We're all allowed to have our opinions. And I know I am not the only one that thinks this way.

 

-CHRIS-

 

 

So what do you have to corroborate your facts? Certainly, you're entitled to an opinion, but you took it to far with the name calling. I think its time this thread was locked up.

 

Where did choeppner call Slighter any names? All he did was relay that Cameron collecters don't like Slighter (my guess is that it has something to do with dotted crowns, cherry dots, circle t's, and other things). No name calling. And certainly not time to lock this thread up.

[choeppner]

To corroborate...Well...Just take a look at his past works...His mimicking of the Cameron Stampings. Turning retail camerons into tour by use of his stamp set. That's the big one. Now..Bettinardi markings. Anybody who sees that right away knows what it is. And also knows it's not on a Bett. That was a very high dollar putter that someone just didn't want to save for so they decided to do a knockoff of it.

 

-CHRIS-

[xxio]

Guys,

 

I did not mean to turn this into an attack on Tom Slighter.

 

There was already a heated topic on this about 2-3 months ago that has been resolved by Slighter golf's representative on this board (MPH/Mitch) stating that TOM NO LONGER PUTS ON AFTERMARKET SCOTTY CAMERON STAMPINGS ON SCOTTY CAMERON PUTTERS. No need to relive that topic.

 

As the starter of this thread can I request that it now be locked. Let us just formulate our own thoughts. If it is shown that Tom violated someting with the spiderweb (which we all doubt), then we can reopen this topic.

 

I just wish Tom didn't "toe the line" so much. He does great work on his own. I doubt if it is the $$$. The way he is backlogged right now he must be swamped with orders. Controversy is a good way to get noticed though.

 

Last food for thought for the Slighter fans. What if it was the other way? Slighter came up with the dreamweaver first, the Mills/Bett/or Byron did the same. Be honest...how would you feel, regardless of the legalities.

[Dyno]

This is why if I ever decide to drop a sack of money on a custom, it will be for a Mills, not a Slighter.

[Hungsolo]

honest question:

 

if a regular guy wanted to buy that bett putter (10 in the world?), could it be done? Realistically, I mean?

 

Personally I had never heard of it until this thread.

[smarshal75]

It's not a personall attack if it's based in fact. We're all allowed to have our opinions. And I know I am not the only one that thinks this way.

 

-CHRIS-

 

 

So what do you have to corroborate your facts? Certainly, you're entitled to an opinion, but you took it to far with the name calling. I think its time this thread was locked up.

 

Where did choeppner call Slighter any names? All he did was relay that Cameron collecters don't like Slighter (my guess is that it has something to do with dotted crowns, cherry dots, circle t's, and other things). No name calling. And certainly not time to lock this thread up.

 

Did I miss something in the Forum Rules, or does it say no personal attacks? Very clearly, everything contained in Chris's rant was a personal attack on Tom Slighter.

[SwingMan]

my 2cents -

 

i am quite certain that each putter maker out there knows and has pictures of what others are doing.

 

since it isn't a patented/registered design/logo - - - then hey why not.

give the customer what they want.

 

 

I am certain that several putter makers really don't know what most of the other smaller makers are doing or who they are. I've asked a puttermaker or two if they knew Tom Slighter and they just said "Who?" I think they know what Scotty, Ping, big boys, etc are doing because of the exposure, but otherwise, I don't think they pay too much attention to other small guys.

 

I doubt if Tom knew about the dreamweaver unless a customer pointed it out to him first.

 

As to copying the scheme, it looks like Tom did a nice job of it. As to xeroxing other's ideas, I think the proper term these days is "inspired by." :)

[Geo]

It's not a personall attack if it's based in fact. We're all allowed to have our opinions. And I know I am not the only one that thinks this way.

 

-CHRIS-

 

 

So what do you have to corroborate your facts? Certainly, you're entitled to an opinion, but you took it to far with the name calling. I think its time this thread was locked up.

 

Where did choeppner call Slighter any names? All he did was relay that Cameron collecters don't like Slighter (my guess is that it has something to do with dotted crowns, cherry dots, circle t's, and other things). No name calling. And certainly not time to lock this thread up.

 

Did I miss something in the Forum Rules, or does it say no personal attacks? Very clearly, everything contained in Chris's rant was a personal attack on Tom Slighter.

 

Again, I ask you to read Chris's post. All he did was relay information. He did not call Tom the devil in the south. He said that Tom is known as the devil in the south. That is a fact, and while I disagree with that opinion, I can understand the reasoning. Is this semantics? Yes, I guess--but no names were called and no rumors were being started, and Tom was not being personally attacked. Stop making something out of nothing.

[xxio]

What the heck keep this MoFo open.

 

It is a slow day at work for me.

 

It would be great though if we can ask Mitch/MPH and Todd/TKSputters if they can ask their respective puttermakers what they think of a situation like this, putting them in each other's shoes.

 

Would Slighter be "slighted" if someone started taking his logo and putting it on other putters?

[smarshal75]

It's not a personall attack if it's based in fact. We're all allowed to have our opinions. And I know I am not the only one that thinks this way.

 

-CHRIS-

 

 

So what do you have to corroborate your facts? Certainly, you're entitled to an opinion, but you took it to far with the name calling. I think its time this thread was locked up.

 

Where did choeppner call Slighter any names? All he did was relay that Cameron collecters don't like Slighter (my guess is that it has something to do with dotted crowns, cherry dots, circle t's, and other things). No name calling. And certainly not time to lock this thread up.

 

Did I miss something in the Forum Rules, or does it say no personal attacks? Very clearly, everything contained in Chris's rant was a personal attack on Tom Slighter.

 

Again, I ask you to read Chris's post. All he did was relay information. He did not call Tom the devil in the south. He said that Tom is known as the devil in the south. That is a fact, and while I disagree with that opinion, I can understand the reasoning. Is this semantics? Yes, I guess--but no names were called and no rumors were being started, and Tom was not being personally attacked. Stop making something out of nothing.

 

I have read Chris's post and it sucks (my opinion). Perhaps a more impartial Marshal should review Chris's comments and determine if they jive with the forum rules.

[xxio]

my 2cents -

 

 

As to copying the scheme, it looks like Tom did a nice job of it. As to xeroxing other's ideas, I think the proper term these days is "inspired by." :)

 

 

Exactly all of this wouldn't be an issue FOR ME if Tom had put "inspired by the dreamweaver" on the bottom, or at least on his site now would it? Again not so much out of legality but RESPECT.

[choeppner]

It is not wise to insult a marshall.

 

JAT

 

-CHRIS-

[Geo]

It's not a personall attack if it's based in fact. We're all allowed to have our opinions. And I know I am not the only one that thinks this way.

 

-CHRIS-

 

 

So what do you have to corroborate your facts? Certainly, you're entitled to an opinion, but you took it to far with the name calling. I think its time this thread was locked up.

 

Where did choeppner call Slighter any names? All he did was relay that Cameron collecters don't like Slighter (my guess is that it has something to do with dotted crowns, cherry dots, circle t's, and other things). No name calling. And certainly not time to lock this thread up.

 

Did I miss something in the Forum Rules, or does it say no personal attacks? Very clearly, everything contained in Chris's rant was a personal attack on Tom Slighter.

 

Again, I ask you to read Chris's post. All he did was relay information. He did not call Tom the devil in the south. He said that Tom is known as the devil in the south. That is a fact, and while I disagree with that opinion, I can understand the reasoning. Is this semantics? Yes, I guess--but no names were called and no rumors were being started, and Tom was not being personally attacked. Stop making something out of nothing.

 

I have read Chris's post and it sucks (my opinion). Perhaps a more impartial Marshal should review Chris's comments and determine if they jive with the forum rules.

 

Now you're walking a line. Maybe someone who doesn't have a Slighter in the bag would be more qualified to form an impartial opinion regarding Slighter's putters. :)

[choeppner]

 

 

Exactly all of this wouldn't be an issue FOR ME if Tom had put "inspired by the dreamweaver" on the bottom, or at least on his site now would it? Again not so much out of legality but RESPECT.

 

 

I agree 100%. If he had paid respect to him in some way thenit would have been more alright.

 

-CHRIS-

[Geo]

Here's my thing, most putter makers respect their peers enough to NOT do blatent copies. I'm a huge Ping fan, but the whole "everyone copies the Anser" argument is old. The Anser has taken many different forms over the years as each new putter maker has made improvements and changes on it. Scotty has made several refinements and has created a market that is unmatched. Bettinardi patented the one-piece milled putter, and has made several jaw-dropping designs. Byron Morgan is responsible for the flatter bumpers and angled shoulders. TP Mills is in a class all of his own with his entire line (as is David Mills with the Softtail and Tradition). Even Dave Something (xtrastiff: sorry Dave, I don't know you as we haven't talked about me being one of your testers :) ) has found his own looks with the MANY finishes, customization, and technology-driven designs that were litterally (sic) before their times from back in the day. I know for a fact that David Mills and Bob Bettinardi (less of an issue as Bettinardi isn't really into the custom putter business) won't do a Cameron knockoff. Why? I'm assuming because they have too much pride in their own work. Does Tom Slighter need the dollars to put bread on the table? I doubt it as his putter business is still his hobby. But the fact is that he takes very unique designs and puts them on his own putters. How many times have we seen knockoff clubs being sold out of China and laughed? Lots of hackers out there can't afford the newest Taylormade driver, woods, irons, wedges, and putters (myself included). So if some company in China makes a very similar looking set of clubs, does that make it ethical? What's the guideline here? I'm betting I'll probably never own a Rolex. Should I go out and get a Rowlex instead? Is the guy with the trenchcoat watch display just giving the customer what he wants? I don't know, just smells bad to me. So far, Slighter is known for one thing...

 

[Montrove]

Bravo!

That is quite an eye-opening post that really sheds light on the ethics of this "operation".

[choeppner]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA That is Priceless. LOL And Daves last name is Billings. :)

 

-CHRIS-

[TM golf guy]

Great post beruo. I think that pretty much puts this Slighter thing to rest. I really agree with you guys about Slighter copying. I have kept my opinions out, but I side with Chris and the others on this one.

[bigkidneys]

I still think the web things looks gay :)

[xxio]

I still think the web things looks gay :)

 

 

haha, be careful that may be interpreted as a personal attack on the sexual orientations of both Tom slighter and RJB.

 

I personally would've liked the spiderweb on the sole myself. I still love the honeycomb on the face, well on the Bettinardi anyway :cheesy:

[bigkidneys]

I won't step into the someone else copying someone else rift. However, I like the service that Tom provides in the fact that an everyday Joe can request a certain style, weight, and custom stamped putter for a very reasonable price. Not too many putter makers will do this at the grass roots level these days. Unless you are in the circle (Jim, Rand, etc.) the likelihood of Scotty making you a putter to your specs are very little. I cannot speak for RJB, but would assume it may be the same. The fact that David, Tom, Nick, and others (Sorry if I left you out) will offer this chance to an everyday Joe makes me want to do business with them even more. Chances are, this guy saw this design and aksed Tom to do it. How do we know he did not contact RJB about it? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I understand the Cameron issues a while back with Tom but I truly think the web design is not the same. If he had altered or stamped RJB on the putter, well, that would be totally different as in Copyright infringement. We all need to realize that there is only so much you can do to these putters that has not been do before. That being said, once again, the spidey thing really freaks me out :)

[Geo]

I still think the web things looks gay :)

 

 

haha, be careful that may be interpreted as a personal attack on the sexual orientations of both Tom slighter and RJB.

 

I personally would've liked the spiderweb on the sole myself. I still love the honeycomb on the face, well on the Bettinardi anyway :cheesy:

 

Naw, tounge-in-cheek comments are always appreciated, and encouraged. :cheesy:

[bigkidneys]

I had an RJB that was made for JMO and confirmed by RJB. Just did not prefer the crisp feel compared to carbon steel milled faces. He makes great putters, just not my choice for being in the bag...

[xxio]

I won't step into the someone else copying someone else rift. However, I like the service that Tom provides in the fact that an everyday Joe can request a certain style, weight, and custom stamped putter for a very reasonable price. Not too many putter makers will do this at the grass roots level these days. Unless you are in the circle (Jim, Rand, etc.) the likelihood of Scotty making you a putter to your specs are very little. I cannot speak for RJB, but would assume it may be the same. The fact that David, Tom, Nick, and others (Sorry if I left you out) will offer this chance to an everyday Joe makes me want to do business with them even more. Chances are, this guy saw this design and aksed Tom to do it. How do we know he did not contact RJB about it? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I understand the Cameron issues a while back with Tom but I truly think the web design is not the same. If he had altered or stamped RJB on the putter, well, that would be totally different as in Copyright infringement. We all need to realize that there is only so much you can do to these putters that has not been do before. That being said, once again, the spidey thing really freaks me out :)

 

 

Personal opinion here:

 

That was my stand at first as well. As this thread evolved it became more of an issue of respect. I can't speak for SC/Bett?mills, etc but if I came up with an original design I would like to think of it as "my baby". I'm sure there is some ill feeling between puttermakers over some "signature overlaps". This is just another example of that. If a puttermaker knows that the original idea is out there and has been executed. He still goes through with it unless there is an acknowledgement, then it is a sign of disrespect.

 

Even though Bett doesn't make most of his $$$ in putters, I would hazard a guess that if he sees that Slighter putter there would be an adverse reaction or a feeling of being "Slighted" (pun intended of course).

[xxio]

I had an RJB that was made for JMO and confirmed by RJB. Just did not prefer the crisp feel compared to carbon steel milled faces. He makes great putters, just not my choice for being in the bag...

 

 

That is why all my RJBs are carbon steel.

 

Still looking for a reasonably priced carbon steel BB2-Little Leaven or a Japan release SB3.

 

TKS, can you go on sale please one of these days. How does 50% off if you buy two or more putters sound?

[golfluvzme]

So far, Slighter is known for one thing...

 

You lost alot of class with that pic, IMHO.

Impartial? Not by the look of it. You made some points, then had to go that way.

Starting to look like TCC, not a compliment.

LaMont in AZ

[johndeere10]

I have to agree with Chris 100% in all his statements on this thread......

 

Yes Cameron took ideas from Ping & some will say Mills and IMPROVED them not directy copied them. Yes there is a certain point that you make what your customers want but not to copy a putter and add aftermarket stamps to look like tour putters.

 

You want examples of a real copy cat....well here we go......

 

"Tiger Dots" and Dancing letters...... hmmmm looks alot like a Cameron?

[johndeere10]

Little work done by him on a Cameron.

 

And some C groves on a Cameron....hmmmm doesn't another putter company uses grooves close to that?

[press]

All this does is make me detest his putters now. Just another blatent rip off by tom. Expect to see my slighters up for sale now.

 

This upsets me.

 

-CHRIS-<<<<<<<

 

Well we all have our own money and we can spend it where we wish. If I liked a putter it wouldn`t matter who made it or if it`s a rip off or not, I would buy it and leave the decision making process to whether it is a illegal copy infridgment to the patent office, they are the ruling body in this matter and I`am not going to waste my time. If you really want to be a purest then all the heads running around now are ripoffs of the origional Ping designs [THE ANSER] That includes just about all the Camerons too.

[xxio]

Okay I changed my mind again.

 

Can we shut this down now?

 

I don't want to go down the SC stampings road again. If you guys want to look that up check out the thread from 2-3 months ago. MPH/Mitch has already said Tom Slighter no longer puts aftermarket SC stampings on SC putters.

 

Tom already has shown to what ends he will go to for "customer service". It is up to us whether we will support that decision and our decisions will reflect on ourselves.