Epon's Changing Business Model

[vanla01]

The plot thickens.....

 

Found this on TSG..

 

3 replies to this topicShowing all posts

 

#1

Jam Session

Posted 7 minutes ago

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Hello Men:

 

For reasons that may not make sense to some of you, I have decided it is my duty to inform you of some of the real business practices that TSG employs that don't get posted on the forum. Some the Chris' fanboys will remain fanboys and rally behind him so he can go buy more Maseratis and yachts on your dime, and that's fine. He will be happy to keep feeding you BS and letting you lap it up.

 

For those of you that smelled this BS with Epon from the get-go, some of this may or may not be old news to you but here goes:

 

Going back nearly to it's inception, TSG has milked suppliers and promoted their brand heavily. If something ever went wrong, they would dump the product and do everything in their power to discredit it.

 

Go ahread, do some searches.

 

--Chris got into public pissing matches with Mr. Whitlam and tried to discredit him and take him down. Sadly for him, he didn't have the resources or manpower to protect himself from these attacks.

 

--Chris did the exact same thing to Scracth and went so far as to post testing results of another company's products in a misguided attempt to bring Scratch down. Watching the Scratch debacle and how Chris handled it is what really started to make me turn against him.

 

--Chris used to badmouth Romaro products a few years ago but now that they've turned the corner and there's money to be made, he has deleted the old posts and started pimping them.

 

--Chris got into it with Carl of Chikara Designs, similar to the above situations, and went so far as to ban the whole state of Hawaii IP addresses at one point.

 

--Chris is into it with Epon now, and it is all shades of the same thing. Chris playing the victim just trying to save his poor followers from poor products and shady business practices.

 

 

Ready for the real reason Epon cut TSG? As Chris mentioned, there is a distributor for Epon named Sosan, and ran by Niimi. Niimi is a very nice man, and he and Kenji Kobayashi are friends until death. A good distributor is in place, with personal ties and management, and what does TSG do? Goes straight to Epon to try and undercut Sosan to gain full control of the product profit going through TSG hands.

 

This is now the SECOND time this has happened, so they are not excusing TSG this time. Sosan pulled the plug with the full blessing of the brass at Epon. TSG has done much to grow this brand but regardless of sales figures they will not stand for shady business practices. Unfortunately that seems to be a common theme with TSG. I have seen direct comments from Sosan regarding this issue direct from Niimi himself. Sosan and Epon made no move to limit talk of Epon on the board or on BST, that is solely a reactionary measure by Chris who is pouting like a baby who got his a** spanked for being naughty again.

 

Epon has been in a state of transition and Chris thought he had leverage to power grab. He didn't and it was tasteless and low class to pull a coup while they are at this crossroads. It backfired mightily and cost TSG their distributorship. Dumping all his Epon gear on the BST the day before this mess started was one of the most classless things I have ever seen by a proprietor, followed by the lying through the teeth to his clients.

 

Another fact you may not know about TSG is that they strangle their resellers by taking such a large portion of the middleman cut that there's very little money to be made on the reseller's end. Sound familiar? Didn't Chris just give us a "woe is me" tale of a greedy international distributor making prices too high and margins too thin? The only reason Chris is griping about it now is because

TSG doesn't occupy that position in regards to Epon.

How ironic that TSG operates indentically to the company they say unfairly cut their Epon line!

 

The ridiculous "pump and dump" nonsense that goes on around here is another thing. It is disingenuous at best and criminal at worst. Promote a product and tell everyone how great it is then once everyone has bought it, start promoting something else to generate buzz to keep everyone shifting one way or another. Once a brand runs out of steam or has a small problem, drop them like a hot potato and tell everyone how bad they were.

 

Chris' arrogant and condescending remarks towards many on the board are indicative of his overall demeanor and business practices. He not only thinks he's smarter than you, he wants you to KNOW it.

 

TSG is nothing but a fulfillment house for JDM gear. You give them your order and your money, they turn around and tell the company, and then the company sends it to you. Sure you can talk about fitting and customer service. It is about as helpful as just reading the product descriptions and figuring it out yourself. Some people have great results and others terrible. Everything I have ever ordered from TSG took way longer than expected to arrive. If I had a dime for everyone I knew that said people at TSG just stopped responding to their emails during the ordering process I'd be a wealthy man.

 

They have become a distributor for brands that had no plans on growth outside of Japan but now are stuck in an archaic way of doing business through TSG. Many retailers in other countries want to carry these brands but can't afford to work under TSG's ridiculous reseller program. I personally know one fellow that wants to sell JDM but the profits are so razor thin it is pointless.

 

Don't listen to what Chris the shepherd wants you to believe. He is in this for himself first and foremost so he can drive exotic cars and travel while working Tario to death in his absence. I have seen enough shadiness from this man to last me a lifetime. If you want to continue doing business with someone who stabs suppliers in the back then lies through his teeth to you about it, be my guest. But for those of you who didn't realize this, maybe I saved you some future hassle.

 

Epon did the right thing in protecting their brand by taking it out of TSG's hands. If you don't believe that then run and go get the Sheep irons he wants to sell you instead of Epon.

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[tbowles411]

Well there you go...

[Super Tuna]

I can't imagine how fast that got deleted

[dozer996]

My new Epon heads are delayed because of this snafu....oh the joy of politics.

[Freeze]

[quote name='Super Tuna' timestamp='1362763572' post='6571613']
I can't imagine how fast that got deleted
[/quote]

Two threads still up. Someone's napping over there at TSG.

[mflores]

Well said, although this is one persons opinion it looks pretty accurate based on what they wrote

[dozer996]

One of them just got deleted...only one left, sure it will be gone before too long.

I know it is one mans side of the story, but I have a gut feeling it is completely accurate.

[Stretch]

TSG, BSG, it all has a rather familiar ring. Lime green Matrix in an Epon head.

[chiromikey]

[quote name='mastaj508' timestamp='1362735869' post='6569635']
I love buying stuff from TSG. They are professional, knowledgeble, and fast. Tario is a great guy to work with.

However, I find it a bit amusing that before TSG lost the account, Epon was consisntely heralded as the very best Japan forged irons by their forum members. Now, the same group of people are criticizing Epon for lack of new products, out of touch, and then vow to never buy Epon again.

All I can say is TSG commands a lot of loyalty.
[/quote]

you can't lump all of us into one stereotype...and i think even the ones that initially bad mouthed epon were just speaking out of initial frustration without all the facts. epon is still every bit as good as it has always been and i'm sure will proceed into the future with some unique and impressive designs.

[lumberman2462]

Curiouser and curiouser......

[Jamboy72]

Well, ain't that something.......there goes Camelot

[4dr.no]

I totally agree with chiromikey, epon hasn't lost any luster as far as I'm concerned. The influx of clubs being resold is primarily due to the impending embargo of listing epon for resale there.

Chris (owner/founder of tsg) has since posted with an attempt to discredit the OP but offered nothing in his defense.

[guisician]

[quote name='4dr.no' timestamp='1362772508' post='6572569']
...
Chris (owner/founder of tsg) has since posted with an attempt to discredit the OP but offered nothing in his defense.
[/quote]

Surprise, surprise! (Those of a certain age, think Jim Nabors in "Gomer Pyle")

[chiromikey]

i don't have a side in this...but even though they may have put their foot in their mouth early on, tsg now seems to be handling the events pretty well.

[Jamboy72]

[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1362766999' post='6571961']
[quote name='mastaj508' timestamp='1362735869' post='6569635']
I love buying stuff from TSG. They are professional, knowledgeble, and fast. Tario is a great guy to work with.

However, I find it a bit amusing that before TSG lost the account, Epon was consisntely heralded as the very best Japan forged irons by their forum members. Now, the same group of people are criticizing Epon for lack of new products, out of touch, and then vow to never buy Epon again.

All I can say is TSG commands a lot of loyalty.
[/quote]

you can't lump all of us into one stereotype...and i think even the ones that initially bad mouthed epon were just speaking out of initial frustration without all the facts. epon is still every bit as good as it has always been and i'm sure will proceed into the future with some unique and impressive designs.
[/quote]

No, you can't say there is an exact facsimile, but the similarities are impossible to ignore...

When you see the type of "jump ship" reaction and badmouthing of the brand once heralded as the pinnacle of all forged clubs, it leads a reasonable person to think that neither extreme is largely true

[tembolo1284]

Hope Epon's prices go down a bit.

[RIDuffer]

I can't say I really have a dog in this fight, although I do purchase from TSG and participate in their forum. I don't remember seeing any real bashing of Epon throughout this process. There have been a few comments about business practices, but the product stands on its own and I do not see that attitude changing...

[chiromikey]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1362777455' post='6573183']
[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1362766999' post='6571961']
[quote name='mastaj508' timestamp='1362735869' post='6569635']
I love buying stuff from TSG. They are professional, knowledgeble, and fast. Tario is a great guy to work with.

However, I find it a bit amusing that before TSG lost the account, Epon was consisntely heralded as the very best Japan forged irons by their forum members. Now, the same group of people are criticizing Epon for lack of new products, out of touch, and then vow to never buy Epon again.

All I can say is TSG commands a lot of loyalty.
[/quote]

you can't lump all of us into one stereotype...and i think even the ones that initially bad mouthed epon were just speaking out of initial frustration without all the facts. epon is still every bit as good as it has always been and i'm sure will proceed into the future with some unique and impressive designs.
[/quote]

No, you can't say there is an exact facsimile, but the similarities are impossible to ignore...

When you see the type of "jump ship" reaction and badmouthing of the brand once heralded as the pinnacle of all forged clubs, it leads a reasonable person to think that neither extreme is largely true
[/quote]

lol, i guess it's your prerogative to base an opinion on the reaction a few people that posted...


[quote name='RIDuffer' timestamp='1362778046' post='6573247']
I can't say I really have a dog in this fight, although I do purchase from TSG and participate in their forum. I don't remember seeing any real bashing of Epon throughout this process. There have been a few comments about business practices, but the product stands on its own and I do not see that attitude changing...
[/quote]

+1

[farmer]

With all the attention to fitting these days, how can TSG or anyone sell very expensive clubs with no real fitting? As TBowles said, for the money, I would want a "guy" if I had a problem.

[Swisstrader98]

[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1362776429' post='6573087']
i don't have a side in this...but even though they may have put their foot in their mouth early on, tsg now seems to be handling the events pretty well.
[/quote]

Handling it by deleting any post or threads that are counter to their position? Not what I would call handling things "well".

Sadly, this thing has been a cluster from the start.

[chocolatte]

[quote name='RIDuffer' timestamp='1362778046' post='6573247']
I can't say I really have a dog in this fight, although I do purchase from TSG and participate in their forum. I don't remember seeing any real bashing of Epon throughout this process. There have been a few comments about business practices, but the product stands on its own and I do not see that attitude changing...
[/quote]

The reason why we don't see more comments is because they deleted everything regarding epon and negativity towards TSG.

[chiromikey]

[quote name='Swisstrader98' timestamp='1362805001' post='6575703']
[quote name='chiromikey' timestamp='1362776429' post='6573087']
i don't have a side in this...but even though they may have put their foot in their mouth early on, tsg now seems to be handling the events pretty well.
[/quote]

Handling it by deleting any post or threads that are counter to their position? Not what I would call handling things "well".

Sadly, this thing has been a cluster from the start.
[/quote]

it has been a cluster...but those posts were left up and discussion was allowed a heck of a lot longer than they would have been in this place! i've had nazi mods from wrx delete incriminating messages from my pm box to protect their "good ole boys"!

[Scratch2Plus]

[quote name='Scuderia' timestamp='1362700087' post='6567041']
Wow, such childish drama going on about this. I read everything on TSG and it's quite sad to see so many epon fans turn their back on Epon b/c of what happened. 2 sides to every story and 100% of those that now have the hate stick on Epon havent heard the other side. A bit premature to judge so quickly? LOL! Internet politics, gotta love it.

Lets not get all hot and bothered about TSG losing their account and jump on an Epon bashing wagon. TSG is not the end all of Epon products. You can buy from any dealer and if Im not mistaken, there's like 20 dealers in the US.

IMO, bad move for TSG to be publicly saying negative things about Epon (yes, I know he is bashing the main distributor but they are all related). As long as that company remains the main distributor, they can pretty much kiss any chance of getting back Epon products.

On a positive note I will be the first to say, I love my Epons and unless their R&D does down the crap chute which we all know will not, they will still produce awesome products.
[/quote]

Whats that old saying again? Oh yeah...3 sides to every story. TSG's side / Epon-Sosan's side / and then the Truth.

[tsupo]

Any one who wanys to dump thier personals or zen

I pay 500

Shud be plenty right as epon. Is now totally ,shiiiiiiiite!

[tripleH]

This caught me by suprise because I had learned of the Epon Personal Blades thru Tour Spec Golf. I ended up purchasing a set and I would have never learned of Epon had it not been from Tour Spec Golf. It was even more of a suprise to me because I was just looking to buy Epon wedges and I was not sure if I wanted the 210KGX or the new 213STX. Looked for the 213STX on the TSG website and no update, then I saw that all Epon products were pulled from the manufacture list...couldn't believe it. Continue to debate about which model wedge to get and I ended up going for the 210KGX because of the forums on TSG regarding Epon wedges. It is a shame that they have gone there own ways because all other websites that have information regarding Epon are written in Japanese. Their irons and wedges are incredible and I understand why the cost differentiates from standard gear that is mass produced. You owe it to yourself to go out and try Epon or don't say a word about the cost unless you can honestly back it up.

[Vegaman]

There is a very detailad explanaiton on TSG now.

[url="http://www.tourspecgolf.com/forum/topic/34238-why-there-is-no-epon-on-tsg-anymore/page__pid__202898#entry202898"]http://www.tourspecgolf.com/forum/topic/34238-why-there-is-no-epon-on-tsg-anymore/page__pid__202898#entry202898[/url]

It sounds pretty credible to me, and BTW from what I understand TSG is not the only Epon account that are having issues with the exclusive international distributor/agent, Nimii-san.

[idrive]

Sucks not having access to Epon clubs through tsg anymore. I'm nowhere near
a fitter.

Glad I already have everything they've made over the last 7 years. And no, I won't
be putting them up for sale.

For ME, there are others that are as good, but none better.

[Jamboy72]

Obviously, Epon feels comfortable with the direction they're headed and I'm sure if people want to purchase their products, there will be plenty of outlets to serve this need...sounds like TSG needed Epon a bit more than Epon needed them...

[freehb]

this was a long rant, but basically I can boil it down to "epon! I love you man!"

[putter_ho89]

I love my Epon set and I had a first rate experience with TSG in getting them. I have nothing but mad props for both Epon (Endo) and TSG. Business is business and things change. I just hope that when I'm ready to get a new set that there is a US source whose service is as good as TSG was for me.