The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[RJRJRJ]

Makes you wonder if Cleveland has seen something about Wiggins in the summer league that they dont like.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1405655008' post='9725621']
Makes you wonder if Cleveland has seen something about Wiggins in the summer league that they dont like.
[/quote]

From what ESPN is reporting, it seems more like LeBron is making it clear that he wants to play with Love as opposed to hoping/waiting for Wiggins to develop into the player people think he will be.

[scratchswinger]

If I was the Cava, I would probably ask LeBron what he wanted and then do it. Don't want him to leave again in two years.

[tocino]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405660700' post='9726025']
If I was the Cava, I would probably ask LeBron what he wanted and then do it. Don't want him to leave again in two years.
[/quote]

I actually don't think he'll leave again. He's way too much into his vision/brand and he saw the damage he caused when he originally took off for miami. The whole 2-year deal was to coincide with the projected salary cap increase due to the new tv deal next year or the year after (i.e. he could get a longer contract for more pay next year)

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405660700' post='9726025']
If I was the Cava, I would probably ask LeBron what he wanted and then do it. Don't want him to leave again in two years.
[/quote]

In a sense i agree, you definitely want to keep Lebron happy.

But i think too that Cleveland needs to think big picture, if they truly want to keep to keep Lebron for the rest of his career that requires both a long term and short term strategy....i will expand on that below

[MtlJeff]

So here is the thing. Take Kevin Durant and the Thunder. The Thunder get beaten up every year for next making aggressive moves. I have even suggested they make some and i'm a big OKC apologist. But in the end they just refuse to do it. People who know say that the method to Sam Presti's madness is that he wants to be competitive for KD and Co now, but also be in the best position to keep these guys for their entire career

So if you trade your draft picks, trade Lamb/Jones whomever. You better win the title, because if you don't you end up where Miami was this season. With no young players, no long term assets, and no reason for Lebron to stay. When Kevin Durant becomes a free agent in 2016, he'll have Westbrook under contract, Ibaka under contract, and 4-5 guys still on rookie deals. They can also offer him an extra year and more money. It will be very very difficult for another team to trump that combination of long term potential and immediate contention

The point is. The Cavs don't want to "blow their wad" for Lebron now either. What if they put all of their eggs in the Irving/Love/Lebron basket and Irving continues to struggle with injuries? What if defensively they are never good enough? What if they trade all their young guys and face these problems, and can't sign any solutions?

They want to keep Lebron the rest of his career right? Lebron might be a dominant player for 6-7 more years. Look at Dirk. You better have a plan to win in year 5-7 aswell. That's where Wiggins comes in.....i still think they are better off trying to go after a Thad Young or Eric Bledsoe....keeping Wiggins

Love is not the only player in the NBA....

But as i said yesterday, whatever, it may be better for Wiggins as a player in Minny

[JackpotJohnny]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405660700' post='9726025']
If I was the Cava, I would probably ask LeBron what he wanted and then do it. Don't want him to leave again in two years.
[/quote]

Making that trade and giving up
All of that for a guy that can't play defense and is often injured, just because that's what lebron wants...is just dumb. Totally counter productive to everything they have been trying to build in Cleveland.
It shows that lebron isn't willing to wait or build like he came out and said he was.
And if that's the case, it will hurt them in the end.
Wasn't it only a year ago when love only played like 20 games?

[RJRJRJ]

You have to wonder how Wiggins will feel about this if the trade doesn't go down, considering that Lebron has pretty much made it pretty obvious that he wants Love on the team.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1405722485' post='9731435']
You have to wonder how Wiggins will feel about this if the trade doesn't go down, considering that Lebron has pretty much made it pretty obvious that he wants Love on the team.
[/quote]

I'm genuinely concerned for Wiggins if they don't trade him. I mentioned that yesterday....he's going to get crushed. Cleveland likely will not blow the doors off at the beginning of the season, everyone needs to get acclimated. I mean the Heat struggled early on in year 1 and they were veterans. So blending Waiters/Irving/Lebron/Wiggins/Bennett together when so many of them are young guys trying to find their way...the first 2 months will be tough

So if Cleveland starts like 14-9 or something, with Wiggins averaging 12pts a game....he's going to get BLASTED.

"we could've had Love", "Cleveland blew it" ....there will even be stories planted that Lebron is already thinking of leaving

I can basically GUARANTEE this will happen if they keep him. It's almost inevitable. He'll have to be a man really quickly and learn how to deal with that

[Sidetracked]

[quote name='J.W.' timestamp='1405561981' post='9716901']
[quote name='Sidetracked' timestamp='1405485809' post='9710113']
Got to the hotel tonight and right away I spot Wiggins in the Forum Shops. Pretty cool to say the least.
[/quote]

Where?
[/quote]

Yeah sorry, didn't see your post. Like scratch said, the Forum shops are in Caesars.

[tatertot]

I think everyone is downplaying how good love is. Does he dominate on d? No. But he is one of the best rebounders in the league, and he is a unique offensive player who complements Lebron perfectly. He gets the big man out from the lane, opening up the paint for drives, and hits outside shots. He is exactly what bosh TRIED to be the last 4 years. Remember, the Heat struggled on offense ALOT. with love and Lebron, you have 2 of the most gifted offensive players in the nba, and they mesh together perfectly. Lebron has a very high basketball IQ, there is a reason he wants to play with love.

[Sidetracked]

So a few things I saw at some of the games I attended. The first game I watched was the Hornets vs the Pelicans and I would say this was the most exiting game. P.J Hairston put on a show. I am a big UNC fan and was sadden that he didn't play this last year. We could have really used him. With that said, it looks like he is a head case. I also really liked Mickey McConnell. Anthony Davis was in attendance, he sat right in front of me.

The second game I watched was the Spurs vs the Jazz. This game was really boring. Exum had a bad game and didn't impress me too much. Then again, he is only 18 so he needs some time to develop.

The last game I saw was the Cavs vs the Rockets. The arena was pretty packed for this game. I was right behind the bench and Kyrie Irving was right in front of me. Wiggins needs to put on some weight, he is really skinny. Bennett does look like he lost some weight but he still doesn't impress me. I just looked at the stats for this game and saw Wiggins went to the line 20 times.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='Sidetracked' timestamp='1405727438' post='9731837']
So a few things I saw at some of the games I attended. The first game I watched was the Hornets vs the Pelicans and I would say this was the most exiting game. P.J Hairston put on a show. I am a big UNC fan and was sadden that he didn't play this last year. We could have really used him. With that said, it looks like he is a head case. I also really liked Mickey McConnell. Anthony Davis was in attendance, he sat right in front of me.

The second game I watched was the Spurs vs the Jazz. This game was really boring. Exum had a bad game and didn't impress me too much. Then again, he is only 18 so he needs some time to develop.

The last game I saw was the Cavs vs the Rockets. The arena was pretty packed for this game. I was right behind the bench and Kyrie Irving was right in front of me. Wiggins needs to put on some weight, he is really skinny. Bennett does look like he lost some weight but he still doesn't impress me. I just looked at the stats for this game and saw Wiggins went to the line 20 times.
[/quote]

UNC fan here as well. I really wonder how good we could've been if PJ was playing. Hopefully MJ will straighten him out.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1405726535' post='9731761']
I think everyone is downplaying how good love is. Does he dominate on d? No. But he is one of the best rebounders in the league, and he is a unique offensive player who complements Lebron perfectly. He gets the big man out from the lane, opening up the paint for drives, and hits outside shots. He is exactly what bosh TRIED to be the last 4 years. Remember, the Heat struggled on offense ALOT. with love and Lebron, you have 2 of the most gifted offensive players in the nba, and they mesh together perfectly. Lebron has a very high basketball IQ, there is a reason he wants to play with love.
[/quote]

Heat points/100 ranking in Lebron's 4 seasons there

Regular seasons: 3rd, 6th, 1st, 2nd
Playoffs: 4th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd

They were arguably the best offense in the league over the past 4 seasons. And before we knock Bosh, the year before he joined Miami he averaged 24-11 on 52% shooting. His 4 seasons in Toronto prior to that he was a 22-10 guy, plus he was a significantly better defender then Love has shown himself to be. You could make the argument 25 year old Bosh was better then 25 year old Love with a pretty straight face. Bosh sacrificed numbers more then anyone to win in Miami, he is a lot better then he gets credit for

Not saying Love/Irving/James can't win a title. But it's no sure thing. I don't think it puts them ahead of OKC or SA, who are both top 5 offenses and defenses

[scratchswinger]

For my own personal reasons I want the Cavs to keep Wiggings. Like Jeff I think Wiggins and LeBron have potential to be incredible on ther perimeter and dynamic in the open court. It could be like Pippen/Jordan but bigger and faster.

With that said, the more I think about this the more I foresee a problem. I honestly believe that in a few years Durant will surpass LBJ and when that happens LBJ losses the huge advantage that he has. It might take Wiggins 3-4 years to be the player that he can be. By that time it might be too late....

I don't know.... It's a very hard decision but it looks like Cleveland has already shown their hand. That is do what LBJ wants and try to win now. I can't disagree with this, Gilbert and LeBron have both said multiple times that their goal is to bring "A" title to Cleveland. Could they be so focused on "A" title that they are not seeing the bigger picture? It's evident that they think they can win now with Love and they are willing to roll the dice.

[TheGameChanger]

Lebron already ruined one great Power Forward.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1405769173' post='9734211']
Lebron already ruined one great Power Forward.
[/quote]

The one with two titles and a 120 million contract? Is that the one you are referring to?

[Sidetracked]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1405736548' post='9732811']
[quote name='Sidetracked' timestamp='1405727438' post='9731837']
So a few things I saw at some of the games I attended. The first game I watched was the Hornets vs the Pelicans and I would say this was the most exiting game. P.J Hairston put on a show. I am a big UNC fan and was sadden that he didn't play this last year. We could have really used him. With that said, it looks like he is a head case. I also really liked Mickey McConnell. Anthony Davis was in attendance, he sat right in front of me.

The second game I watched was the Spurs vs the Jazz. This game was really boring. Exum had a bad game and didn't impress me too much. Then again, he is only 18 so he needs some time to develop.

The last game I saw was the Cavs vs the Rockets. The arena was pretty packed for this game. I was right behind the bench and Kyrie Irving was right in front of me. Wiggins needs to put on some weight, he is really skinny. Bennett does look like he lost some weight but he still doesn't impress me. I just looked at the stats for this game and saw Wiggins went to the line 20 times.
[/quote]

UNC fan here as well. I really wonder how good we could've been if PJ was playing. Hopefully MJ will straighten him out.
[/quote]

Yeah I think we could have contended for a title. Not saying we would of won it, but I think we could of got to the Final Four.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405774993' post='9734555']
[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1405769173' post='9734211']
Lebron already ruined one great Power Forward.
[/quote]

The one with two titles and a 120 million contract? Is that the one you are referring to?
[/quote]

I think it's possible he means Antawn Jamison

[tatertot]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1405737055' post='9732849']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1405726535' post='9731761']
I think everyone is downplaying how good love is. Does he dominate on d? No. But he is one of the best rebounders in the league, and he is a unique offensive player who complements Lebron perfectly. He gets the big man out from the lane, opening up the paint for drives, and hits outside shots. He is exactly what bosh TRIED to be the last 4 years. Remember, the Heat struggled on offense ALOT. with love and Lebron, you have 2 of the most gifted offensive players in the nba, and they mesh together perfectly. Lebron has a very high basketball IQ, there is a reason he wants to play with love.
[/quote]

Heat points/100 ranking in Lebron's 4 seasons there

Regular seasons: 3rd, 6th, 1st, 2nd
Playoffs: 4th, 3rd, 1st, 2nd

They were arguably the best offense in the league over the past 4 seasons. And before we knock Bosh, the year before he joined Miami he averaged 24-11 on 52% shooting. His 4 seasons in Toronto prior to that he was a 22-10 guy, plus he was a significantly better defender then Love has shown himself to be. You could make the argument 25 year old Bosh was better then 25 year old Love with a pretty straight face. Bosh sacrificed numbers more then anyone to win in Miami, he is a lot better then he gets credit for

Not saying Love/Irving/James can't win a title. But it's no sure thing. I don't think it puts them ahead of OKC or SA, who are both top 5 offenses and defenses
[/quote]

Bosh' win share the season before going to Miami was 9.6, barely in the top 20. Love was over 14 last season, in the top 5. Love us that good, an his skills better complement Lebron.

I know the heat's offensive stats were good , but they struggled against good defensive teams. They had a lot of stagnant quarters, especilly if Lebron wasn't feeling it.

[scratchswinger]

Reportedly Cleveland is about to sign Wiggins and once they do he can't be traded for 30 days. I think Cleveland has already offered Wiggins as reported and denied by Cleveland. Now Cleveland is making this news public as leverage for Minnesota to take the deal. I would bet that Wiggins and Bennett was offered but Minnesota is trying to get Wiggins, Waiters and Varejão. Plus have Cleveland take back Kevin Martin.

[MtlJeff]

I'll take the opposite view and say i don't think Cleveland has put Wiggins on the table and certainly not with Bennett. To me, if you're Minnesota and the deal is really on the table, you've already completed the trade and welcomed Wiggins to your team

There's what, a 10-15% chance that Love resigns? If you end up rebuilding, Wiggins is the type of player you are hoping you land in the draft. It would be nuts with the odds they have, to pass on the chance to get 2 #1 picks (one of them the #1 in arguably the deepest draft in 10 years). Their fans would never forgive them. Wiggins is worst case Kawhi Leonard with the Spurs last year, and best case Paul George in last year's first 30 games. What am i missing?

I understand playing the odds if the alternative is 60 cents on the dollar split over 2-3 guys. But if Wiggins was offered the Wolves would have said yes already.

I don't believe Love is worth it as i've said. A 20M dollar player has to play both ways or he's hurting his team in some fashion. Love is obviously a great player...but for 27-28% of the luxury tax cap....i think the Cavs are nuts. Go get Thad Young or whomever....don't give up Wiggins

[mac94]

I think Cleveland gets Love without giving up Wiggins. Even without Wiggins I think they can put together the best offer. Some combo of Waiters, Thompson, Bennet, Varejao and # 1 picks.

[TheGameChanger]

Cleveland Ain't getting Love without Wiggins going in the deal. IMO Love is going end up at GSW.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1406239672' post='9778571']
I'll take the opposite view and say i don't think Cleveland has put Wiggins on the table and certainly not with Bennett. To me, if you're Minnesota and the deal is really on the table, you've already completed the trade and welcomed Wiggins to your team

There's what, a 10-15% chance that Love resigns? If you end up rebuilding, Wiggins is the type of player you are hoping you land in the draft. It would be nuts with the odds they have, to pass on the chance to get 2 #1 picks (one of them the #1 in arguably the deepest draft in 10 years). Their fans would never forgive them. Wiggins is worst case Kawhi Leonard with the Spurs last year, and best case Paul George in last year's first 30 games. What am i missing?

I understand playing the odds if the alternative is 60 cents on the dollar split over 2-3 guys. But if Wiggins was offered the Wolves would have said yes already.

I don't believe Love is worth it as i've said. A 20M dollar player has to play both ways or he's hurting his team in some fashion. Love is obviously a great player...but for 27-28% of the luxury tax cap....i think the Cavs are nuts. Go get Thad Young or whomever....don't give up Wiggins
[/quote]

If they haven't offered Wiggins than I doubt that there has been much conversation. If I'm Minnesota and Wiggins is not offered I am waiting it out or calling up GS and working that deal. I don't think Cleveland has enough to offer without Wiggins in the mix.

*Edit* Or I call Chicago and go after Taj Gibson, that might be the best deal yet.

[TheGameChanger]

Wiggins + Salary Fillers is a reasonable deal imo. Wiggins is the Number 1 pick in a deep draft. Who will be on his Rookie Contract for the next 4 years. However I Think Flip really wants Klay Thompson from GSW. I Would Take Wiggins right now over Klay. Klay will want/get Max Next Offseason.

Also on Supposed Bulls Offer for Love. I Think its a ploy to drive the price up for Cleveland.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1406254556' post='9779987']
Wiggins + Salary Fillers is a reasonable deal imo. Wiggins is the Number 1 pick in a deep draft. Who will be on his Rookie Contract for the next 4 years. However I Think Flip really wants Klay Thompson from GSW. I Would Take Wiggins right now over Klay. Klay will want/get Max Next Offseason.
[/quote]

Max and as a Lakers fan I would like to think that we would have a huge advantage to get him.

[TheGameChanger]

That Looked Bad for George.

[Boogs2]

[quote name='TheGameChanger' timestamp='1406947129' post='9837879']
That Looked Bad for George.
[/quote]Wow...just saw the video of it...it was definitely similar to Kevin Ware's injury. Hoping he fully recovers cause that was pretty gruesome...

[scratchswinger]

Devistating to George and the Pacers. NBA players are done with international play after this.