The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1405108243' post='9682343']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1405106734' post='9682161']
[quote name='Johnny4379' timestamp='1405106311' post='9682119']
[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405105973' post='9682091']
[quote name='Johnny4379' timestamp='1405105652' post='9682053']
I wouldn't give up wiggins to get love..package whoever you need and as many pics as it takes but don't give up wiggins.
[/quote]

The problem with Cavs' picks is they won't be lottery picks now that Bron's back. I'm with you--I don't do that trade if I'm the Cavs. Irving and Wiggins are untouchable.
[/quote]

They need to be younger not older.
Trading wiggins for love and giving him max $ put them in the same position Miami is in right now in a few years.
Love is good now but who knows in a few years ..I see a bosh 2.0
Plus lebron said he's committed to "building" and they their success isn't going to be immediate.
If love wants to come to Cleveland and sign long term, he will do it regardless.

Look what happens to the trigger happy Knicks when they blew their load to get melo
He was gonna be in ny anyway
[/quote]

Love is 25 and a guaranteed 20-10 guy for the next 5 years, plus one of the best passing big men in the league. Wiggins is a rookie unknown. Cavs would love to have them both, but they'd take Love over Wiggins 7 days a week.
[/quote]

I disagree..

Wiggins was the #1 overall pick from possibly the best draft class since LeBron's class (only time will tell, obviously).

He has the potential to be one of the best 2 way players in the league. The Cavs will have plenty of offense without Love on the team.. And they'll have the opportunity to sign him next season for nothing if they wait. The Carmelo trade to NYK should serve as a lesson learned here.
[/quote]

Anthony Bennett was also a #1 pick....

Love is proven. Wiggins hasn't played a game yet. Wiggins even struggled a bit at times throughout his one year in college. I'd take love over wiggins, knowing what we know today, all day long.

With that said, if the rockets pull off bosh and parsons they are going to a force next year.

[Bogie_Nights]

Love's also proven he can be fairly brittle. The two seasons before the last he combined for a total of 72 games...

I like KLove. A lot. I watched most of his games at UCLA and I even saw a few of his HS games, but I wouldn't trade Wiggins for him.

edit: @SilverBullets--I take it you're a Cavs fan?

[scratchswinger]

Lakers just gained over 1 billion fans.

[deadsolid...shank]

I think the NBA is much more about win now, build later (with the exception of SA). If you add a proven Love, who makes you a title contender right now, I think you do it. How many sure things have not panned out in this league. Even if Wiggins goes on to be a great player, if Love helps you get at least one title, it's been a good trade. If Wiggins takes a few years to develope, who knows what the status of Irving and LeBron will be at that time.

Do what you can to win now.

[dcmidnight]

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405110783' post='9682625']
\Anthony Bennett was also a #1 pick....

Love is proven. Wiggins hasn't played a game yet. Wiggins even struggled a bit at times throughout his one year in college. I'd take love over wiggins, knowing what we know today, all day long.

With that said, if the rockets pull off bosh and parsons they are going to a force next year.
[/quote]

This +100.

As I said, I take an NBA proven stud over a one year college player every single time. I dont care how great Wiggins looked in college. One and done. You could look back at all the lottery picks - or even #1 picks - that looked so great in college and had so much UPSIDE - but couldnt cut it in the NBA. I am not saying that will be Wiggins but I am saying it is nowhere near a guarantee that he is going to be an amazing pro.

Keep in mind Love is only *25* and he has already proven himself - in my opinion - to be one of the best players in the entire league.

If you are Cleveland I think you absolutely 100% do this deal.

Love - over six seasons - averaging 19/12/2. Yikes.

[Bogie_Nights]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405112448' post='9682777']
Lakers just gained over 1 billion fans.
[/quote]
LOL. Lin will make the all-star team this year.

I've been lurking on the Lakersground forums today, and 90% of the posters there hate this for the Lakers. IMO, the Lakers went all in on the big guys and missed. There's really no one out there to go for this year, other than the guys they tried for (from what I've read they pitched to Bron, Melo, and Lowry). Those guys all went somewhere else (I'm assuming Melo will be a Knick). Who else was there? Bledsoe? The Suns will match. Parsons? The Rox will match. Maybe Stephenson, but if I'm the Lakers, I hold on until next year, when Lin and Nash are off the books, and give it another go.

[JackpotJohnny]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1405112846' post='9682805']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405110783' post='9682625']
\Anthony Bennett was also a #1 pick....

Love is proven. Wiggins hasn't played a game yet. Wiggins even struggled a bit at times throughout his one year in college. I'd take love over wiggins, knowing what we know today, all day long.

With that said, if the rockets pull off bosh and parsons they are going to a force next year.
[/quote]

This +100.

As I said, I take an NBA proven stud over a one year college player every single time. I dont care how great Wiggins looked in college. One and done. You could look back at all the lottery picks - or even #1 picks - that looked so great in college and had so much UPSIDE - but couldnt cut it in the NBA. I am not saying that will be Wiggins but I am saying it is nowhere near a guarantee that he is going to be an amazing pro.

Keep in mind Love is only *25* and he has already proven himself - in my opinion - to be one of the best players in the entire league.

If you are Cleveland I think you absolutely 100% do this deal.

Love - over six seasons - averaging 19/12/2. Yikes.
[/quote]
I'm just saying man..there's a fine line between "IS" and "WAS" in the NBA, and it can changes in a blink

Grant hill was a stud
Penny hardaway was a stud
Vince carter was a stud
T-Mac was a stud
Iverson was a stud
Gilbert arenas ... D-wade

K love is a stud today...means nothing. He could any of those guys tomorrow. You don't ever mirage your future for immediate return.

Edit- I forgot about Amare, remember couple years ago. Look where that dude is now.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405113115' post='9682835']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405112448' post='9682777']
Lakers just gained over 1 billion fans.
[/quote]
LOL. Lin will make the all-star team this year.

I've been lurking on the Lakersground forums today, and 90% of the posters there hate this for the Lakers. IMO, the Lakers went all in on the big guys and missed. There's really no one out there to go for this year, other than the guys they tried for (from what I've read they pitched to Bron, Melo, and Lowry). Those guys all went somewhere else (I'm assuming Melo will be a Knick). Who else was there? Bledsoe? The Suns will match. Parsons? The Rox will match. Maybe Stephenson, but if I'm the Lakers, I hold on until next year, when Lin and Nash are off the books, and give it another go.
[/quote]

I think the plan was/is to try and sign a big name and if that does not work gain assets. I am pleased that we made it as far as we did with Melo, I think that if we didn't blow our wad on Kobe we could have gotten Melo. Cross hairs need to be on KD at this point, eventually I think he will be the best player in the league.

[RJRJRJ]

At this point id like to see Melo end up in Chicago. Otherwise the Cavs will have no trouble cruising to the Finals.

[deadsolid...shank]

[quote name='Johnny4379' timestamp='1405113428' post='9682865']
[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1405112846' post='9682805']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405110783' post='9682625']
\Anthony Bennett was also a #1 pick....

Love is proven. Wiggins hasn't played a game yet. Wiggins even struggled a bit at times throughout his one year in college. I'd take love over wiggins, knowing what we know today, all day long.

With that said, if the rockets pull off bosh and parsons they are going to a force next year.
[/quote]

This +100.

As I said, I take an NBA proven stud over a one year college player every single time. I dont care how great Wiggins looked in college. One and done. You could look back at all the lottery picks - or even #1 picks - that looked so great in college and had so much UPSIDE - but couldnt cut it in the NBA. I am not saying that will be Wiggins but I am saying it is nowhere near a guarantee that he is going to be an amazing pro.

Keep in mind Love is only *25* and he has already proven himself - in my opinion - to be one of the best players in the entire league.

If you are Cleveland I think you absolutely 100% do this deal.

Love - over six seasons - averaging 19/12/2. Yikes.
[/quote]
I'm just saying man..there's a fine line between "IS" and "WAS" in the NBA, and it can changes in a blink

Grant hill was a stud
Penny hardaway was a stud
Vince carter was a stud
T-Mac was a stud
Iverson was a stud
Gilbert arenas ... D-wade

K love is a stud today...means nothing. He could any of those guys tomorrow. You don't ever mirage your future for immediate return.

Edit- I forgot about Amare, remember couple years ago. Look where that dude is now.
[/quote]

But for each of those guys you can probably name three or four "sure" things that never materialized in the league. You can't be a "has been" if you turn out to be a "never was".

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1405114912' post='9682969']
At this point id like to see Melo end up in Chicago. Otherwise the Cavs will have no trouble cruising to the Finals.
[/quote]

Yeah I would have to agree... I want to see Phil have to earn it without a marquee player, hahaha.... Ideally for the Lakers I would like to see us work a sign and trade for Pau to the Bulls for Taj Gibson, Butler or another good young player.

[scratchswinger]

Man when they said the dominos would fall they meant it.

Bosh- Back to Miami 5 year $118 million. Riley is nuts.
Wade- Expected to return
Swaggy P- Back to Lakers
Pau- Choosing between Spurs and Bulls

[RJRJRJ]

lol Houston got assed out if the Bosh deal goes through.

Somebody above (MTLJeff?) mentioned that they were getting too cute, and this confirms it.

[scratchswinger]

Jordan Hill for 2 years 18 mil???!!!!???? WTF are the Lakers doing? Looks like they don't care about 2015 and all sights are set on 2016.

[Bogie_Nights]

Swaggy @5 a year is a great deal for the Lakers. Jordan Hill @9 for two years is reeetarded.

[scratchswinger]

Melo has to be trying to figure out how he can get NY money in Chicago at this point.

[RJRJRJ]

The more I think about it, the more entertaining it is. Houston must be seriously pissed right now. They gave Lin and a first rounder to the Lakers. As in, literally. Thats all they did.

[Bogie_Nights]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1405125592' post='9683813']
The more I think about it, the more entertaining it is. Houston must be seriously pissed right now. They gave Lin and a first rounder to the Lakers. As in, literally. Thats all they did.
[/quote]

And they traded away Asik also. They've lost a couple of great supporting players. Bosh must have had them thinking he was on his way.

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405125873' post='9683835']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1405125592' post='9683813']
The more I think about it, the more entertaining it is. Houston must be seriously pissed right now. They gave Lin and a first rounder to the Lakers. As in, literally. Thats all they did.
[/quote]

And they traded away Asik also. They've lost a couple of great supporting players. Bosh must have had them thinking he was on his way.
[/quote]

And now they have to rush to fill up their cap space if they want any chance of keeping Parsons. Its remarkable, but its entirely possible that the Rockets end up substantially worse than they were last season.

[scratchswinger]

Wiggins and Bennet both look great tonight in summer league. I wonder if Cleveland knew LBJ was coming if they would have drafted Embiid.

And right on queue Bennet fires up a three.

I'm really interested to see what JW and Jeff have to say. JW is probably going crazy.

[Bogie_Nights]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405118942' post='9683291']
Jordan Hill for 2 years 18 mil???!!!!???? WTF are the Lakers doing? Looks like they don't care about 2015 and all sights are set on 2016.
[/quote]

I'm watching the Raptors/Lakers summer league game right now and Joel Meyers is saying that the 2nd year of Jordan Hill's deal is a team option (so plan 2015 is intact). Also, while the Lakers look like crap today, Clarkson looks like he may be a steal as a hybrid guard. He has size, speed, handles, and a shot.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='Johnny4379' timestamp='1405113428' post='9682865'][quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1405112846' post='9682805']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405110783' post='9682625']
\Anthony Bennett was also a #1 pick....

Love is proven. Wiggins hasn't played a game yet. Wiggins even struggled a bit at times throughout his one year in college. I'd take love over wiggins, knowing what we know today, all day long.

With that said, if the rockets pull off bosh and parsons they are going to a force next year.
[/quote]

This +100.

As I said, I take an NBA proven stud over a one year college player every single time. I dont care how great Wiggins looked in college. One and done. You could look back at all the lottery picks - or even #1 picks - that looked so great in college and had so much UPSIDE - but couldnt cut it in the NBA. I am not saying that will be Wiggins but I am saying it is nowhere near a guarantee that he is going to be an amazing pro.

Keep in mind Love is only *25* and he has already proven himself - in my opinion - to be one of the best players in the entire league.

If you are Cleveland I think you absolutely 100% do this deal.

Love - over six seasons - averaging 19/12/2. Yikes.
[/quote]
I'm just saying man..there's a fine line between "IS" and "WAS" in the NBA, and it can changes in a blink

Grant hill was a stud
Penny hardaway was a stud
Vince carter was a stud
T-Mac was a stud
Iverson was a stud
Gilbert arenas ... D-wade

K love is a stud today...means nothing. He could any of those guys tomorrow. You don't ever mirage your future for immediate return.

Edit- I forgot about Amare, remember couple years ago. Look where that dude is now.[/quote]

So your argument is to disregard how good Love is right now because he might not be that good in 2-3 years, and stick with the guy who isn't proven but could be good in 2-3 years? Might as well forget about Lebron. Best player in the league...means nothing. He could be any of those guys tomorrow. Nobody knows how good Wiggins is going to be. He could be the next Kwame Brown. Then if he's a bust Cleveland look incredibly stupid for passing on that trade. You have to take the guys that have proven themselves at this level. Wiggins may end up being great but he won't reach his potential his rookie year, or even his sophomore year. Especially with Lebron, you've got to take the guys who can help right away.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405136460' post='9684965']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405118942' post='9683291']
Jordan Hill for 2 years 18 mil???!!!!???? WTF are the Lakers doing? Looks like they don't care about 2015 and all sights are set on 2016.
[/quote]

I'm watching the Raptors/Lakers summer league game right now and Joel Meyers is saying that the 2nd year of Jordan Hill's deal is a team option (so plan 2015 is intact). Also, while the Lakers look like crap today, Clarkson looks like he may be a steal as a hybrid guard. He has size, speed, handles, and a shot.
[/quote]

Yeah I watched that game, Jordan dominated the third.

[scratchswinger]

Pau is going to Chicago. I hope the Lakers get a building block for the future.

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405142084' post='9685363']
Pau is going to Chicago. I hope the Lakers get a building block for the future.
[/quote]

Just an opinion or is there a source?

[scratchswinger]

https://mobile.twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/status/487836738169995264

[JackpotJohnny]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1405137021' post='9685019']
[quote name='Johnny4379' timestamp='1405113428' post='9682865'][quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1405112846' post='9682805']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405110783' post='9682625']
\Anthony Bennett was also a #1 pick....

Love is proven. Wiggins hasn't played a game yet. Wiggins even struggled a bit at times throughout his one year in college. I'd take love over wiggins, knowing what we know today, all day long.

With that said, if the rockets pull off bosh and parsons they are going to a force next year.
[/quote]

This +100.

As I said, I take an NBA proven stud over a one year college player every single time. I dont care how great Wiggins looked in college. One and done. You could look back at all the lottery picks - or even #1 picks - that looked so great in college and had so much UPSIDE - but couldnt cut it in the NBA. I am not saying that will be Wiggins but I am saying it is nowhere near a guarantee that he is going to be an amazing pro.

Keep in mind Love is only *25* and he has already proven himself - in my opinion - to be one of the best players in the entire league.

If you are Cleveland I think you absolutely 100% do this deal.

Love - over six seasons - averaging 19/12/2. Yikes.
[/quote]
I'm just saying man..there's a fine line between "IS" and "WAS" in the NBA, and it can changes in a blink

Grant hill was a stud
Penny hardaway was a stud
Vince carter was a stud
T-Mac was a stud
Iverson was a stud
Gilbert arenas ... D-wade

K love is a stud today...means nothing. He could any of those guys tomorrow. You don't ever mirage your future for immediate return.

Edit- I forgot about Amare, remember couple years ago. Look where that dude is now.[/quote]

So your argument is to disregard how good Love is right now because he might not be that good in 2-3 years, and stick with the guy who isn't proven but could be good in 2-3 years? Might as well forget about Lebron. Best player in the league...means nothing. He could be any of those guys tomorrow. Nobody knows how good Wiggins is going to be. He could be the next Kwame Brown. Then if he's a bust Cleveland look incredibly stupid for passing on that trade. You have to take the guys that have proven themselves at this level. Wiggins may end up being great but he won't reach his potential his rookie year, or even his sophomore year. Especially with Lebron, you've got to take the guys who can help right away.
[/quote]

Basically yes

What I'm saying is that either direction it could go it could not work out. The difference is the $.
Love will strangle the cap and wiggins will still be on his rookie deal. If wiggins doesn't pan out by next year or te year after they could easily cut bait, change direction and pull the trigger on a high caliber player.

And no lebron could not fall into that category.
I'm talking about flash in the pan a** dudes who were hot doe a short time and then fell off and their deals cripple their team.

[tocino]

[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405119513' post='9683321']
Swaggy @5 a year is a great deal for the Lakers. Jordan Hill @9 for two years is reeetarded.
[/quote]

You could've got someone like Ekpe Udoh instead of hill for the vet minimum and he would've given you the roughly the same stats

[Bogie_Nights]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1405179202' post='9686647']
[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405119513' post='9683321']
Swaggy @5 a year is a great deal for the Lakers. Jordan Hill @9 for two years is reeetarded.
[/quote]

You could've got someone like Ekpe Udoh instead of hill for the vet minimum and he would've given you the roughly the same stats
[/quote]

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4261/ekpe-udoh

I don't see how the two compare. How do you figure they're the same player?

Udoh is a 6'10 PF that gave the Bucks 4 points and 3 rebounds a game in almost 20 minutes. Young is a 6'5 SG/SF tweener, and he averaged 17+ a game in 27 or so minutes a game. Udoh, on the other hand, is set to make 4.5 mil this year, while his career high is a little less than 6 points 4 rebounds a game. I'll pass, thank you

Again, Young's a reasonable signing for the Lakers IMO, especially considering some of the contracts given out this summer.

[i]***cough, cough--Warriors/Shawn Livingston--cough, cough***[/i]

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405200747' post='9688027']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1405179202' post='9686647']
[quote name='Son_of_Sahm' timestamp='1405119513' post='9683321']
Swaggy @5 a year is a great deal for the Lakers. Jordan Hill @9 for two years is reeetarded.
[/quote]

You could've got someone like Ekpe Udoh instead of hill for the vet minimum and he would've given you the roughly the same stats
[/quote]

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/4261/ekpe-udoh

I don't see how the two compare. How do you figure they're the same player?

Udoh is a 6'10 PF that gave the Bucks 4 points and 3 rebounds a game in almost 20 minutes. Young is a 6'5 SG/SF tweener, and he averaged 17+ a game in 27 or so minutes a game. Udoh, on the other hand, is set to make 4.5 mil this year, while his career high is a little less than 6 points 4 rebounds a game. I'll pass, thank you

Again, Young's a reasonable signing for the Lakers IMO, especially considering some of the contracts given out this summer.

[i]***cough, cough--Warriors/Shawn Livingston--cough, cough***[/i]
[/quote]

Almost positive he was talking about Jordan Hill.